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by gus
[October 06, 2018, 01:13:54 PM]

[October 06, 2018, 11:43:45 AM]

Author Topic: Verhältnis Mönche - Laien, Vorbilder und Pflichten  (Read 5384 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Sophorn

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Re: Verhältnis Mönchen - Laien, Vorbilder und Pflichten
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2014, 09:30:43 AM »
 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Offline Mirco

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Re: Verhältnis Mönchen - Laien, Vorbilder und Pflichten
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2014, 11:42:24 AM »
Quote
Da lehrt ein Bhikkhu andere nicht das Dhamma in Einzelheiten, so wie er es gelernt und gemeistert hat.
Quote
... da weist zwar nicht der Meister oder ein würdiger Ordensbruder dem Mönche die Lehre, sondern soweit der Mönch die Lehre gehört und gelernt hat, soweit legt er sie den anderen ausführlich dar. Während er den anderen die gehörte und gelernte Lehre ausführlich darlegt, versteht er dabei die Lehre und ihren Sinn. Die Lehre und ihren Sinn verstehend, steigt dabei Freude in ihm auf .
Also als Übung der Übenden (Ordinierten) untereinander.
Ja, Du hast recht.

Schöne Grüße,
Mirco

Offline Johann

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Re: Verhältnis Mönchen - Laien, Vorbilder und Pflichten
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2014, 09:02:55 AM »
Dazu sei dennoch bemerkt, dass das eigene meistern und teilen stets höher ist, als nur selbst zu meistern und auch auf das sutta "die stimme" sei verwiesen.

Nicht ist es so, dass das eigene meistern gegenüber dem "für sich selbst und andere" erhabener gelobt wurde. Die zurückhaltung eines mönches hat mehr damit zu tun, um als noch zu schulender keine fehler zu tun.

Ich hoffe damit keine verwirrung gestiftet zu haben, oder das passende aufmerksamkeit dieser überwiegt. Muss die stimme ja keine eines erleuchten sein.  :)

Also keine scheue vor dem lernen durch lehren! Nichts anderes ist lehrreicher und voller verdienste in alle richtungen. Natürlich appamada und auch immer eingestehen. Man kann nur an anhaftung verlieren.

Dhammische (wortspiel: damisch sagt man in kärnten für verrückt) grüsse an den werten mirco.  :)
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Mirco

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Re: Verhältnis Mönche - Laien, Vorbilder und Pflichten
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2014, 11:57:49 AM »
It does not has to be the voice of an enlightened person.

Muss die stimme ja keine eines erleuchten sein.  :)

But it can be. I stumbled upon this:
Quote
175. Monks!
Brahmins and householders are most helpful to you
since they provide you with robe, bowl, lodging and seat, medicines and the necessities for sickness.
You also are most helpful to Brahmins and householders,
since you teach them the Dhamma that is lovely in the beginning, lovely in the middle and lovely at the end, both in letter and spirit.
You proclaim to them the holy life in all its completeness and purity.
Therefore, the holy life is lived in mutual dependence, for crossing the flood, for the overcoming of suffering.

Itivuttaka 111 - This englisch translation found in "Daily Buddha Vacana"
->


Darf sie aber ;-) Über dieses bin ich gestolpert:
Quote
175. Bhikkhus!

Brahmanen und Haushälter sind für euch äußerst hilfreich,
denn sie versorgen euch mit Robe, Almosenschale, Unterkunft und Sitzstätte, Medizin und Dingen bei Krankheit,
Ihr seid auch äußerst hilfreich für Brahmanen und Haushälter,
denn ihr lehrt ihnen meine Lehre, die gut am Anfang, gut in der Mitte und gut am Ende ist.
Ihr verkündet ihnen das heilige Leben in seiner ganzen Vollständigkeit und Reinheit.
Deshalb wird das Heilige Leben in gegenseitiger Abhängigkeit gelebt, um die Fluten über queren und das Leid überwinden zu können.

Itivuttaka 111 - Über die englische Übersetzung gestolpert im "Daily Buddha Vacana"
->

Kind Regards,
Schöne Grüße,
Mirco
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 12:14:26 PM by Administration »

Offline Administration

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Re: Verhältnis Mönche - Laien, Vorbilder und Pflichten
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2014, 12:21:57 PM »
Habe einmal dieses Thema, wo ich den Eindruck hatte, dass es schon länger vom Ausgangsthema etwas weg gerückt war, an subjektiver Sollbruchstelle abgetrennt und dem sich von dort entsponnenen einen neuen Namen gegeben: "Verhältnis Mönche - Laien, Vorbilder und Pflichten".

Nicht so ganz sicher, wie sehr treffend das nun ist, aber scheint mir so grob zu stimmen. Hoffe, dass es zu Ordnung und Übersicht beiträgt.

_/\_

(Moritz im Adminaccount)

Offline Johann

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Re: Verhältnis Mönche - Laien, Vorbilder und Pflichten
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2014, 07:53:16 AM »
sehr  wichtiges  sutta, danke  fuers  teilen werter mirco. den werten moritz ein danke fuer  das entwirren und die handlungen  hier , mirco kuemmert sich geduldig um zweisprachigkeit , zeigen, ease man ohne dankbarkeit undo opfer nicht weit kommt und das diese immer moeglich sind, auch ohne selbstverstaendlichkeit.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Antw:Verhältnis Mönche - Laien, Vorbilder und Pflichten
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2017, 02:42:04 PM »
Stets weit außerhalb der domestizierten Art, dort und da, lebend und ausübend, muß Atma hier anmerken, daß sich 95% aller oft sehr tief gehenden Dhammalehrreden und Gespräch auf dem Almosengang abspielen, in der reletiv kurzen Zeit in der man die Gesellschaft betritt und es ist gar nicht so, daß es nie meine Person ist, die Gelegenheiten wahr nimmt.

Laien sind zumeist sehr dankbar und Dhamma, die ganz einfachen aber fundamentalen Dinge, haben die meisten auf der Straße nach spontaner Großzügigkeit, gelernt. Wenn immer da Großzügigkeit zuerst ist, sind Türen zum weiter kommen offen.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Verkehrtes Verhältnis Mönche - Laien, Vorbilder und Pflichten
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2017, 03:24:22 PM »

Aramika   *

Ein oder mehrer Beiträge wurden hier im Thema abgeschnitten und damit in neues Thema "Verkehrtes Verhältnis Mönche - Laien, Vorbilder und Pflichten " eröffnet. Bitte scheuen Sie nicht davor zurück, etwaigen Rat oder Kritik dazu mitzuteilen.  Viel Freude und Inspiration auch im neuen Thema. Anumodana!

One or more posts have been cut out of this topic here. A new topic, based on it, has been created as "Verkehrtes Verhältnis Mönche - Laien, Vorbilder und Pflichten " . Please do not hesitate to claim or give supporting hints.  Much joy and inspiration also in the new Topic. Anumodana!
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Moritz

October 22, 2018, 06:42:41 PM
May Bhante have a peaceful evening/night.
_/\_
 

Johann

October 22, 2018, 05:49:48 PM
Nyom Moritz
 

Moritz

October 22, 2018, 05:48:48 PM
Vandami Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

October 22, 2018, 09:00:29 AM
Nyom Roman.
 

Johann

October 20, 2018, 02:52:14 AM
Atma leaves for alms round, Nyom Villa.
 

Johann

October 17, 2018, 06:01:23 PM
May all spend meritorious/good and higher last hours of this Sila-day.

Sokh chomreoun (may well being be developed [by everyone])
 

Johann

October 16, 2018, 03:15:10 PM
Nyom Roman.
 

Johann

October 12, 2018, 04:13:16 PM
Good to see Nyom Norum.
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 10:38:10 AM
Maybe of support for lasting satifaction: Seeds of Becoming .
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 06:57:38 AM
When ever love arises, dislike will be it's end. Who ever seeks out for friends, will get his enemy. Why? Because not willing to leave home. May wanderer gus find the way to never return. Mudita

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:58 AM
Vandami.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:22 AM
Nevertheless my courage of active participation  has been fallen down. Anyway I hope to come time to time.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam khamata me bhante.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:37:11 AM
Okasa bhante,

I didn't accepted Dymitros invitation to start a Theravada forum, because I thought this forum is pure Theravada. Now I regret about it, yet think this forum is comparatively good.  I learnt many valuable things from you and grateful to you. Nevertheless my courage of active partici
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 02:20:29 AM
What ever one searches for, that he/she will find. Less are those seeing the nature of combined thing, leaving home and go beyond Maras domain.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:45:18 PM
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:39:12 PM
When one is born in outer regions ... your island has drifted away.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:30:00 PM
macchariya, a boarder hard to cross to the middle way, abounding home, sakayaditthi, doubt and rituals.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:33:02 PM
However much one say, West is West, East is East.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 02:28:29 PM
Where ever there is east, there is west. And vici versa. Where ever there is nama, there is rupa. Where ever one seeks for a home, there he will suffer.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:03:31 PM
West is West

gus

October 06, 2018, 09:56:42 AM
belief of kamma, gratitude, independence, honesty, devotion : These are hard to find in people
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:49:14 AM
Again, a latin proverb mit be useful: Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi , patisota is always harmful if not just one own defilements or having a proper stand to help. Sota is the virtue required to resist in borderlands.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:41:52 AM
If in a borderland it's better to simply serve and support the Sangha. It's not smart to seek for other householders to nurish on traced imperfections of something required to uphold, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 04:54:48 AM
Okasa, happy to hear such things reagarding kamma. Many monks I have met don't directly speak about kamma because they have been tired after practicing some years and now bit relaxed.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:17:26 AM
Such can be total kusala and total akusala or simply defuse. Set your mind right and be mindful, that nothing will be of harm for yourself and others.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:15:27 AM
There is nothing not permitted. Merits or demerits are the actors responsibility. One is full in charge of ones action in this Domain here, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 03:50:00 AM
Bhante, is it permitted to ask questions or post things on behalf of other/future people ?

gus

October 05, 2018, 09:19:32 AM
We have been advised like this:
"No matter however much monks reject you,
Never leave the place."
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 09:09:37 AM
It's good when wanderer gus takes a rest, turns to a lonly place, enjoys the merits done and find a good place for his mind and fixes possible open wholes when clear where he likes to go some hours later.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 08:59:03 AM
Wanderer Gus knows how foolish this statement is. That is not the way to get out of a hole.

gus

October 05, 2018, 08:42:59 AM
okasa,
falling down from a status is suffering.
So, if I could stay in the hell-being status from the beginning, then no suffering.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:33:20 AM
From a state of a young Bhikkhu equal tradition...to householder... ...asura (now) on the border to animal, peta, hell-state. It can go quick if not having firm nissaya.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:29:27 AM
Aniccam vatta samsara...

gus

October 05, 2018, 06:56:28 AM
Evolution:
Bhante subhuti =>
Upasaka gus =>
Deva gus =>
Asura gus.

In the future:
Asura gus =>
Peta gus =>
Animal gus =>
Hell-being gus ???

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:51:42 AM
Okasa, I think bhante thinks me as a patriot because of some content of my posts. But it is not.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 05:41:33 AM
What ever one likes to, not touched like the moon, does not mean to praise what is blameworthy and vici-versa and to have metta not to let people run into hell if ways can be pointed out. Yet other choices at least are their. Be quick, your island drifts away!

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:34:15 AM
Okasa,
As long as I don't do exactly what you say, I think I'll not be able to make you happy or satisfied.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 02:12:55 PM
If thinking that this is for sure, if delighting in believing that connected things are a refuge and give space to rest: one may do so. Ones own choice. When ever one stops to nurish inwardly, ouwardly path and fruits die. Good as well as bad.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:28:51 AM
If bhante didn't let the weak person to live in avatar/deva mode, then he will lose both openness and connection. Up to now I have secured at least the connection.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:22:24 AM
Yet I appreciate and pay vandana for your care and advice on openness.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:19:56 AM
Please forgive me  bhante if I have made you tired. I don't like to accumulate akusala by making a monk tired in expecting a naughty chicken to be a good duck.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam Khamtu me bhante!
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:07:06 AM
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:01:00 AM
Differnt asked "why is Bhante not happy, dwell not in outwardly seeming being not touched?" Because it would not only confirm and show sign of aggreement of unwise acts, but also very incompassionate and cruel. Also place for suspecting corrupt ways and invite others to follow the comfortable dwelli
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:54:12 AM
No one is able to make my person angry, which does not mean that he would not appear angry so to possible prevent from doing what is not conductive for liberation, even lead in lower states. Nothing to worry, but also no invitation to test it foolish since it could hurt one self and others.

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:46:39 AM
Okasa bhante, Isn't there at least single way to stay anonymous without making you angry?
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:33:12 AM
corr: "it's, the domain of the Noble Ones, is nobody's personal domain" there are no wards around fields for merits and no tickets to pay
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:29:31 AM
What ever Deva gus feels inspired. It's oneones personal domain and all giving is good in the distance of the brigh cool moon. One should not fear, should not be shy to do what is good and praised by the wise but be quick!

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:21:39 AM
Bhante, is that mean you don't like me to talk about higher subjects and like to talk about basics only?
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:02:12 AM
It would be more than good if teaching others a lot on the topic vandami (paying respect) and khamatu (asking for forgiviness) since unknown and not practiced here around this field of merits in compassion to former relatives, Deva gus.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:55:38 AM
...total no problem to dwell and lay down in the cool shadow to heal at all and no need to ask for pardon when intended for progressing and to get fit for the battles so hard to win.

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