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Author Topic: Heaven - Himmel  (Read 1790 times)

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Offline Johann

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Heaven - Himmel
« on: April 17, 2015, 12:18:32 PM »

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

8. Devalokasuttaṃ

Heaven

18. "Bhikkhus, if ascetics of another faith ask you: 'Friends, do you lead the holy life in the dispensation of the recluse Gotama, to be born in heaven?' Wouldn't you be worried, wouldn't you loathe it?"

"Yes, venerable sir."

"Bhikkhus, wouldn't you be worried and wouldn't you loathe that heavenly, life span, beauty, pleasantness, fame and authority. Isn't it better that you be worried and loathe bodily misconduct, verbal misconduct and mental misconduct."


Freie deutsche Übersetzung, unkorregiert:

8. Devalokasuttaṃ

Himmel

"Bhikkhus, wenn Asketen anderen Glaubens euch fragen: 'Freunde, führt Ihr das heilige Leben in der Austeilung des Einsiedlers Gotama, um im Himmel geboren zu sein?' Würde euch das bedrängen, würde Euch das verabscheun?"

"Ja, ehrwürdiger Herr."

"Bhikkhus, würdet Ihr bedrängt sein und würde Euch das nicht verabscheuen, diese Himmlische Lebensspanne, Schönheit, Angenehmheit, Ruhm und Autorität. Wäre es nicht besser bedrängt und verabscheut von körperlichen Fehlverhalten, verbalem Fehlverhalten und geistigem Fehlverhalten zu sein?"
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Sophorn

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Re: Heaven - Himmel
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2015, 05:46:24 PM »
 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Könnten Sie vielleicht ein paar Worte dazu äußern, Bhante?

Vielen Dank!

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Offline Johann

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Re: Heaven - Himmel
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2015, 06:11:42 PM »
Auf dem richtigen Weg und mit dem richtigen Verhalten kann nicht viel passieren. Mit nur einem Ziel vor Augen, dass man vielleicht verkennt, vergisst man sich einfach auf das Training zu konzentrien, Upasika Sophorn, soweit Attma das aus der Übersetzung nimmt. Die Übersetzungen der werten Nonne sind nicht so sicher, wie sie sicher am Englisch feststellen können.
Jedenfalls ist ein Ziel im Himmel vielleicht ein Aufstieg zum richtigen Ziel und in die Richtung, aber dafür ist der Weg des guten Verhaltens eigentlich nicht gemacht, sozusagen sind diese Dinge nebenprodukt und man solle sich besser auf die Praxis Konzentrieren, als auf eine gute Wiedergegurt, als Termitenkönigin oder so, wenn man nur Dana mancht und auf Silas und etwas Entsagung vergisst, oder nur Vertiefung und keine Basis mitbringt.

So würde das doch sehr springende und kurze Sutta verstehen. Wie würden Upasika Sophorn das verstehen?
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Fangammika

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Re: Heaven - Himmel
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2017, 10:21:33 AM »
This is new knowledge for me. I also believe that there are many people who do not know this yet.

Offline gus

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Re: Heaven - Himmel
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2018, 02:31:37 AM »
Okasa Bhante and all,

wenn man nur Dana mancht und auf Silas und etwas Entsagung vergisst, oder nur Vertiefung und keine Basis mitbringt.
I read the sutta in Buddha Jayanti Printing of the Sinhala Tipitaka.
How I could understand is similar to how Bhante understood it.

I think, in short, the Blessed One is pointing out the following theory.

If you refrain from the subtle offences, you should have already refrained from the rough offences.

If you are wise enough not to attach even in divine realms, you should have already been wise enough not to attach in main offences.

If you see the mahout, you should have already seen the elephant.



Sada Sotthi Bhavantu te!
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 02:36:38 AM by gus »

Offline Johann

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Re: Heaven - Himmel
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2018, 06:06:26 AM »
Sadhu.

That's the point.

For example it's one reason why one should not practice tudhonga (e.g. the Hole life at it's peak) if still desiring the reunion with the Devas.

Or another good sutta to point out the life of real recluses is the "Sex-/Socialicing Sutta", the Metuna Sutta (please not, that Upasaka Piya has modified his explainings a little later, so that it fits to his current not so perfect way of life as householder).

And here also again: Althought very modern, it does not make sense to practice Jhana, Vipassana... and still has proplems with Abhivadana, Sila and Generosity. Note that on the Ariya-Magga Sila comes before Generosity. Without having perfect Silas one Generosity, giving letting go, if even, is just trade for heavenly becoming (working to enjoy some holidays)
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Johann

November 11, 2018, 01:00:38 AM
Sadhu Nyom. "May the Dhamma of the Buddha, and those following, be all beings refuge for a blessed life and beyond."
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 11, 2018, 12:31:09 AM
May the Dhamma be the greatest blessing in our lives today!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 11, 2018, 12:30:17 AM
Möge heute das Dhamma der größte Segen in unserem Leben sein!
 

Johann

November 10, 2018, 03:31:36 AM
Sadhu! "May all given the right causes so that they experiance peace, prospery, friendships in their worlds today."
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 10, 2018, 02:42:15 AM
Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann,
hier gibt es einen Fehler. Nicht Mӧge, sondern Mӧgen.

Dhamma Grüβe an Sie aus Sri Lanka!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 10, 2018, 12:58:57 AM
May peace, prosperity, Friendship prevail throughout the word today!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 10, 2018, 12:58:26 AM
Mӧge heute Frieden, Wohlstand und Freundschaft auf der ganzen Welt herrschen!
 

Johann

November 08, 2018, 01:40:21 AM
May all those having not observed the new-moon Uposata yesterday take the chance of this day.
 

Johann

November 07, 2018, 01:52:42 AM
Sadhu! "May I, may all, give the causes, act in way, that I, that all, experiance a blissfull day."
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 07, 2018, 12:36:19 AM
May today be a blissful day!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 07, 2018, 12:35:13 AM
Mӧge der heutige Tag ein glückseliger Tag sein!
 

Cheav Villa

November 06, 2018, 02:57:08 PM
Sandhu!
 

Johann

November 06, 2018, 12:41:22 AM
Sadhu. "May I, may all, use this day to give themselves causes for long lasting happines."
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 06, 2018, 12:17:34 AM
May today be a meritful and meritorious day!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 06, 2018, 12:16:58 AM
Mӧge der heutige Tag ein verdienstvoller und verdienstlicher Tag sein!
 

Johann

November 05, 2018, 09:16:58 AM
Sadhu
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 05, 2018, 01:41:57 AM
May today be a day of insight!                                                                        
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 05, 2018, 01:41:24 AM
Mӧge der heutige Tag ein Tag der Einsicht sein!
 

Johann

November 04, 2018, 04:57:53 PM
(I, Breah Karuna, will try to send the pictures tomorrow again, because today the sending does not work)

No problem Nyom. គ្មានបញ្ហាទេញោម
 

Cheav Villa

November 04, 2018, 04:09:20 PM
ខ្ញុំព្រះករុណានឹងផ្ញេីរូបភាពនៅថ្ងៃស្អែកទៀត ព្រោះឥលូវផ្ញេីមិនទៅទេព្រះអង្គ
 

Johann

November 04, 2018, 07:58:41 AM
Sadhu
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 04, 2018, 02:45:36 AM
Dear The Most Reverend Samanera Johann,

I wish you a devotional day.

Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!


 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 03, 2018, 03:11:53 PM
Dear The Most Reverend Samanera Johann,

I thank you for your kind service.

Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!


 

Cheav Villa

November 03, 2018, 02:03:55 PM
ព្រះករុណាព្រះអង្គ
 

Johann

November 03, 2018, 02:01:26 PM
(I would like to inform Breah Ang, that I, Breah Karuna, together with my husband/family, and older Sister Sophoeun will go to Aural tomorow in the morning. May Breah Ang be told to (a)wait.)

May you have a secure and hurry-less travel and meet good fortune all along the way. May you drive slowly
 

Cheav Villa

November 03, 2018, 12:51:48 PM
សូមទូលព្រះអង្គ​ ខ្ញុំព្រះករុណានិងគ្រួសារ និងបងស្រីសុភឿននឹងទៅឱរ៉ាល់នាព្រឹកស្អែក សូមទូលនិមន្តព្រះអង្គចាំ
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 03, 2018, 12:06:08 PM
Dear The Most Reverend Samanera Johann,

I have put the link on the correct place. Please confirm if it is correct!

Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!
 

Johann

November 03, 2018, 10:42:58 AM
Nyom Villa.
 

Johann

November 03, 2018, 10:42:08 AM
And Atma should put it on a good place? Take your time. Nobody can do your work, merits for Nyom Mohan aside he himself.
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 03, 2018, 07:27:06 AM
Dear The Most Reverend Samanera Johann,

Since I do not have much time, I would like to submit the following link.

Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!





 

Johann

November 03, 2018, 07:25:21 AM
Nyom Mohan
 

Johann

November 02, 2018, 01:26:07 PM
Better in Topic itself, Nyom. See here .
 

Cheav Villa

November 02, 2018, 12:53:59 PM
ខ្ញុំ​កូណាមិនយល់ពីពាក្យរបស់ព្រះអង្គទេ
My sleep, my health, my many household, feelings, rememberance, projects, recognitions ... "I want to have time when I'm old and sick ... surely! សូម ព្រះអង្គ ជួ
 

Johann

November 02, 2018, 12:20:25 PM
No problems or demands at all Nyom Villa. All fine for Nyom, there where she is?
 

Cheav Villa

November 02, 2018, 12:17:21 PM
My sleep, my health, my many household, feelings, rememberance, projects, recognitions ... "I want to have time when I am old and sick ... surely! សូមព្រះអង្គជួយពន្យល់ផង
 

Cheav Villa

November 02, 2018, 12:13:05 PM
 :o ខ្ញុំកូណាមេីលច្រលំទៀតហេីយ សូមទោសព្រះអង្គម្តងទៀត  :D
 

Cheav Villa

November 02, 2018, 11:26:23 AM
ខ្ញុំកូណាសូមទោសមិនបានឆ្លីយតបព្រះអង្គ ទាន់ពេលទេីបតែងាកឃេីញ។ ខ្ញុំកូណាចង់ជួយធុងទឹក និងបេីអាចនិងបុកអណ្តូង
 

Johann

November 01, 2018, 10:05:29 AM
May all have/hold an auspicious Uposatha-Sila-Observance day.
 

Johann

October 31, 2018, 03:14:35 PM
"Oh! My sleep, my health, my many household, feelings, rememberance, projects, recognitions...", I will have time when I am old and sick... surely!
 

Johann

October 31, 2018, 03:09:31 PM
in earlier times "Buddhist" would come the day before Sila-day to the monastery and, not going to sleep, after having taken 8 precepts, do 24h merits. "good old times..."  :)
 

Johann

October 31, 2018, 01:50:41 PM
 :) lost... "Zeit hat man nicht, die muß man sich nehmen"
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

October 31, 2018, 01:43:14 PM
Dear The Most Reverend Samanera Johann,

I agree with you. But I need more time.

Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!
 

Johann

October 31, 2018, 01:25:52 PM
Thinking "in the future" is another lost battle... Nyom: Sieg! . Next minute you could die and what follows Nyom?
 

Johann

October 31, 2018, 01:22:24 PM
Similar to this one, maybe: [Khmer] Anreden, Begrüßung | Forms of adress, Greeting , started as layperson by now Bhante Khemakumara.
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

October 31, 2018, 01:17:50 PM
Dear The Most Reverend Samanera Johann,

In the future, I will try my best.

Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!
Mohan Barathi Gnanathilake




 

Johann

October 31, 2018, 01:16:37 PM
Where ever people stop to make merits, don't rejoice with it, it will not need long that revolution-desires arise, having gone out of puñña
 

Johann

October 31, 2018, 01:11:17 PM
What about teaching ways of introduction abhivadana, and how to adress monks, behave, speak in monasteries? That would be great in many aspects for Nyom.
 

Johann

October 31, 2018, 01:08:34 PM
Nyom could teach a little Sinhalese, and open a topic. At least such, by thinking and giving into the Sublime Sangha would be of great benefit for Nyom. Not ease to find possibility to make merits, yet surely devotion is also one.
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

October 31, 2018, 12:59:52 PM
Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann,

Dhamma Grüβe an Sie aus Sri Lanka!

Mohan Barathi Gnanathilake





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