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Author Topic: When a western monk is sick in Thailand...  (Read 840 times)

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Online Johann

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When a western monk is sick in Thailand...
« on: April 22, 2015, 07:54:12 AM »
also what I pray or assume all the time...

When a western monk is sick in Thailand... (Dhammawheel)

Quote from: Bhante Dhammanando
A western monk is sure to have an easy time if:

• He has health insurance, or...
• He uses money and has plenty of it, or...
• He is part of some outfit like the Ajahn Chah tradition which has an abundance of wealthy lay supporters, or...
• He has a personal lay supporter of unlimited means who has offered to pay for any medical expenses he may incur. (Usually he would need to have been a monk for many years before anyone made an offer like this).

If he is not in any of these categories then his choice is between the Sangha Hospital in Bangkok and the country's state hospitals.

Like here... If you are a Thai Monk, you will need you familie... No Sangha
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

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Re: When a western monk is sick in Thailand...
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2018, 02:54:31 AM »
Okasa,
It is true that many can't easily abandon all the subtle bonds as a putujjana. Yet, I think this is a point where a monk can assess his level of determination (on fear about the future).

We know some monks who had refused to depend on the support of their monasteries, lived in solitude and when they had got seriously ill (with an disabality to walk or deadly ill ..etc.) asked for help from the monastery again. Many permanent-monastery-dwelling monks laughed at them.

There is no confusion about what is the proper way of living like real ascetic or like a moon. Many knows independent way is the better way. Yet they are keen on ridiculing those who do better things while have not yet have the determination required.

It is like this:
After a layman became a monk without a higher level of determination, then when he try to go back again to the lay life, many laugh at him.

It seems when we renouncing we should have to have a good level of determination.

Vandami.


Online Johann

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Re: When a western monk is sick in Thailand...
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2018, 11:55:43 AM »
Knowing much is a real burden. An certain perceptions can make a lot of pain.

Mostly, today, one thinks to need to be perfect before going to school.

If we read the Vinaya the Buddha gave roles that someone ordaining = willing to leave home, not to choin another, should not even be informed of his lifelihood for the rest of his life. But as soon he did.

Modern people have no idea of life as it really is, not having met the messanger.

Who ever laughs not just because he sees how foolish he was before he understood, lifted himself above others, gained the lose with his win.

Did Deva gus ever read the heartwood Suttas in Majjhima Nikaya?

It's good to be careful or pay for debts one accumulated and not run away.

Mistakes are "normal".

Fools laught at others. Some do criticise others with the aim to try to shine, some to win over people to mobilize for a battle and take over, ... some out of duty, some out of compassion.

Once one has lost all estimation of more advanced and higher, has lost all his goodness, what does he have left to give into, at the end possible facing himself.

What did the Buddha say?

One who has firm faith, holds on Vinaya, focus on right view... one following the eightfold path, having developed it, is sure to gain final liberation.

Does one like to take is house, home, body... status, virtue, concentration, knowledge... take with him there?

What's the meaning of ceto-vimutti and pañña-vimutti?

And it's because many actually tried to leave home that they highly respect those who try it and go into the battle, support them, encourage them... not tread them just like farmers there pigs and chicken.

One also needs to understand that there are very less modern people who even ever practiced giving their whole life. Like children in the east, modern children, children of this Maras delight days.

Critic, support... what ever means, what ever tools to support each other forward, if not seeing the army of Mara, how could metta, karuna, mudita and upekkha ever arise?

This is why all starts or requires gratitude first. For it's the fundation of: Respect, Confidence and Patient .

Kamma, Upanissaya, is not a matter of east, west, birth... it's very individual, and it's very individual into what one gives to, forgets it and go beyound.

What does Nyom @Deva think, does the Uposatha of the cowboys or the Uposatha of the Nigaṇṭhā leave an opening to the Uposatha of the Noble Ones?

Quote
It seems when we renouncing we should have to have a good level of determination.

So one needs to be an Non-returner first?

What about just gaining confidence after meeting the four messenger with the Samaṇa at least?
Or the Samaṇa fist, and the others by following him? Did Rahula met the three before?

Deva gus, by cultivating householder upekkha, grow up in an actually socialist enviroment already or?

What's that we?

If one run's around with an "I", it's like a person carry a gun for protection. It causes some fear. Probably one might fear an shout him.

If one run's around with an "We", it's like carring a nuclear weapon on his shoulder...

So what cause fear or even increase it?

CHILDREN, BULLETS

A gun shoots its children — its bullets — outward. We shoot ours inward, into our heart. When they're good, we're shot in the heart. When they're bad, we're shot in the heart. They're an affair of kamma, our children. There are good ones, there are bad ones, but both the good and bad are our children all the same.

When they're born, look at us: The worse off they are, the more we love them. If one of them comes down with polio and gets crippled, that's the one we love the most. When we leave the house we tell the older ones, “Look after your little sister. Look after this one” — because we love her. When we're about to die we tell them, “Look after her. Look after my child.” She's not strong, so you love her even more.

And what does a Dhammika say if leaving house?

One his death-bed, last advices toward his family and those having been bond on him?
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

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Re: When a western monk is sick in Thailand...
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2018, 03:52:27 PM »
Vandami.

Online Johann

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Re: When a western monk is sick in Thailand...
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2018, 06:55:21 PM »
Was empfehlen dahinscheidende dhammische Führer?

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

'Whatever there may be in our family that can be given away, all that will be shared unstintingly with virtuous ones who are of admirable character.' That's how you should train yourselves."

"Family, dwelling, ones possesions, status, Dhamma..." Gratitude.

Sometimes "young" Monks, Novices, Bhikkhus... hardly inspired, come up, risk. Sometimes they come later with a fellow Bhikkhu.

Sometimes they are really happy to share their merits like "I am now no more reachable, having given up telefon..." Some, of small groups, like-minded, a honorable Bhikkhu stops, let his driver stop, waering old robs, and giving their alms (having got from devoted in their monastery, because needing to drive for a bussiness, meeting a "wanderer" right at almsround in a remoted village. Later come up.

Then telling that they are bond by Vinaya. Some by society, state... family... afraid of this, that... desire...

Nobody seems to be willing to give up home for another, yet claiming all the corruption in their livelihoods.

A woman, having come with husband and children, sunday, before ancestorday.

Asking, listening, asking... probably 2h. Forgetting to eat. How comes that my person listened so many monks, Dhamma... and today my person feels like understandig the first time?

She left home. Could develop yonissomanisakara and was somehow remembered on the good Dhamma.

It's all a matter of upanissayapaccayena a matter of giving into and rejoice by it. See realiced that nobody aside of here self can ake or smile or look angry. She simply tried.

She simply was asked if sign, sound... thoughts are lasting, real, a refuge, worthy to hurt one self or others for it.

But she has left home to be able to look for here self, to see.

And what does Deva gus here. He nearly totally left home, but worries stillabout his "childs"

They sat next the woman and she reported that they react total different here, later.

Maybe because their mother did so? Who knows?

Some aalways say that they rejoiced and will come back?

Don't take the key with you, sometimes helps. Other Devas just like to come back.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Online Johann

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Re: When a western monk is sick in Thailand...
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2018, 07:24:19 PM »
My person talks much today... but do people really know who provide them to still stay in contact?

It's not google, facebook... it's about merely poor but mighty past of future Devas.

And their wishes, when giving food, when giving for most beshameing just that little, success.

So what do good leader, not to speak of those having seen the Dhamma, where ever advice their families?

What do children learn in good families?

Give. And if nothing having right now, better then year doing daily sacrifies, simply a bow, of what the elder said, is worthy to respect if meeting.

Just that might be enought to keep Upanissay alive and nurish it.

What one does not nurish dies. What do you like to grow? So we invite the Devas or not? We invite or families or not? We invite all those who we owe a lot a gratitude or not?

Would good come? If we invite Bhikkhus, not for gain, teaching... but just to be happy to give, would good come?

This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

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Re: When a western monk is sick in Thailand...
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2018, 05:24:07 AM »
Vandami Bhante.

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Johann

Today at 09:00:29 AM
Nyom Roman.
 

Johann

October 20, 2018, 02:52:14 AM
Atma leaves for alms round, Nyom Villa.
 

Johann

October 17, 2018, 06:01:23 PM
May all spend meritorious/good and higher last hours of this Sila-day.

Sokh chomreoun (may well being be developed [by everyone])
 

Johann

October 16, 2018, 03:15:10 PM
Nyom Roman.
 

Johann

October 12, 2018, 04:13:16 PM
Good to see Nyom Norum.
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 10:38:10 AM
Maybe of support for lasting satifaction: Seeds of Becoming .
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 06:57:38 AM
When ever love arises, dislike will be it's end. Who ever seeks out for friends, will get his enemy. Why? Because not willing to leave home. May wanderer gus find the way to never return. Mudita

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:58 AM
Vandami.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:22 AM
Nevertheless my courage of active participation  has been fallen down. Anyway I hope to come time to time.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam khamata me bhante.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:37:11 AM
Okasa bhante,

I didn't accepted Dymitros invitation to start a Theravada forum, because I thought this forum is pure Theravada. Now I regret about it, yet think this forum is comparatively good.  I learnt many valuable things from you and grateful to you. Nevertheless my courage of active partici
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 02:20:29 AM
What ever one searches for, that he/she will find. Less are those seeing the nature of combined thing, leaving home and go beyond Maras domain.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:45:18 PM
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:39:12 PM
When one is born in outer regions ... your island has drifted away.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:30:00 PM
macchariya, a boarder hard to cross to the middle way, abounding home, sakayaditthi, doubt and rituals.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:33:02 PM
However much one say, West is West, East is East.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 02:28:29 PM
Where ever there is east, there is west. And vici versa. Where ever there is nama, there is rupa. Where ever one seeks for a home, there he will suffer.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:03:31 PM
West is West

gus

October 06, 2018, 09:56:42 AM
belief of kamma, gratitude, independence, honesty, devotion : These are hard to find in people
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:49:14 AM
Again, a latin proverb mit be useful: Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi , patisota is always harmful if not just one own defilements or having a proper stand to help. Sota is the virtue required to resist in borderlands.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:41:52 AM
If in a borderland it's better to simply serve and support the Sangha. It's not smart to seek for other householders to nurish on traced imperfections of something required to uphold, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 04:54:48 AM
Okasa, happy to hear such things reagarding kamma. Many monks I have met don't directly speak about kamma because they have been tired after practicing some years and now bit relaxed.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:17:26 AM
Such can be total kusala and total akusala or simply defuse. Set your mind right and be mindful, that nothing will be of harm for yourself and others.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:15:27 AM
There is nothing not permitted. Merits or demerits are the actors responsibility. One is full in charge of ones action in this Domain here, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 03:50:00 AM
Bhante, is it permitted to ask questions or post things on behalf of other/future people ?

gus

October 05, 2018, 09:19:32 AM
We have been advised like this:
"No matter however much monks reject you,
Never leave the place."
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 09:09:37 AM
It's good when wanderer gus takes a rest, turns to a lonly place, enjoys the merits done and find a good place for his mind and fixes possible open wholes when clear where he likes to go some hours later.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 08:59:03 AM
Wanderer Gus knows how foolish this statement is. That is not the way to get out of a hole.

gus

October 05, 2018, 08:42:59 AM
okasa,
falling down from a status is suffering.
So, if I could stay in the hell-being status from the beginning, then no suffering.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:33:20 AM
From a state of a young Bhikkhu equal tradition...to householder... ...asura (now) on the border to animal, peta, hell-state. It can go quick if not having firm nissaya.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:29:27 AM
Aniccam vatta samsara...

gus

October 05, 2018, 06:56:28 AM
Evolution:
Bhante subhuti =>
Upasaka gus =>
Deva gus =>
Asura gus.

In the future:
Asura gus =>
Peta gus =>
Animal gus =>
Hell-being gus ???

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:51:42 AM
Okasa, I think bhante thinks me as a patriot because of some content of my posts. But it is not.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 05:41:33 AM
What ever one likes to, not touched like the moon, does not mean to praise what is blameworthy and vici-versa and to have metta not to let people run into hell if ways can be pointed out. Yet other choices at least are their. Be quick, your island drifts away!

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:34:15 AM
Okasa,
As long as I don't do exactly what you say, I think I'll not be able to make you happy or satisfied.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 02:12:55 PM
If thinking that this is for sure, if delighting in believing that connected things are a refuge and give space to rest: one may do so. Ones own choice. When ever one stops to nurish inwardly, ouwardly path and fruits die. Good as well as bad.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:28:51 AM
If bhante didn't let the weak person to live in avatar/deva mode, then he will lose both openness and connection. Up to now I have secured at least the connection.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:22:24 AM
Yet I appreciate and pay vandana for your care and advice on openness.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:19:56 AM
Please forgive me  bhante if I have made you tired. I don't like to accumulate akusala by making a monk tired in expecting a naughty chicken to be a good duck.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam Khamtu me bhante!
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:07:06 AM
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:01:00 AM
Differnt asked "why is Bhante not happy, dwell not in outwardly seeming being not touched?" Because it would not only confirm and show sign of aggreement of unwise acts, but also very incompassionate and cruel. Also place for suspecting corrupt ways and invite others to follow the comfortable dwelli
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:54:12 AM
No one is able to make my person angry, which does not mean that he would not appear angry so to possible prevent from doing what is not conductive for liberation, even lead in lower states. Nothing to worry, but also no invitation to test it foolish since it could hurt one self and others.

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:46:39 AM
Okasa bhante, Isn't there at least single way to stay anonymous without making you angry?
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:33:12 AM
corr: "it's, the domain of the Noble Ones, is nobody's personal domain" there are no wards around fields for merits and no tickets to pay
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:29:31 AM
What ever Deva gus feels inspired. It's oneones personal domain and all giving is good in the distance of the brigh cool moon. One should not fear, should not be shy to do what is good and praised by the wise but be quick!

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:21:39 AM
Bhante, is that mean you don't like me to talk about higher subjects and like to talk about basics only?
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:02:12 AM
It would be more than good if teaching others a lot on the topic vandami (paying respect) and khamatu (asking for forgiviness) since unknown and not practiced here around this field of merits in compassion to former relatives, Deva gus.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:55:38 AM
...total no problem to dwell and lay down in the cool shadow to heal at all and no need to ask for pardon when intended for progressing and to get fit for the battles so hard to win.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:52:39 AM
But they would not feed them in ways which might look as nurishing relations for wordly sake directly, for people not understanding would think "look, he is herding, carry for his cattle, he wasts the gift of the land, the heritage of the Gems for his becoming and own gain. Understood? Total no prob
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:45:29 AM
Never would people of integrity send away pets, petas or sick, for they are not able to change for now but possible can gain of what they need to change.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:42:28 AM
If, just to think about, one lives deliberatly with sign showing a rejection of firm trust in kamma, one lives in nurishing the danger of falling into grave wrong views and give ways that others follow what is improper to do. Just to reflect. How ever wishing to do.

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