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Talkbox

Like when enter or join, a shrine, another's sphere, or back: good for greating, bye, veneration, short talks, quick help. Some infos on regards .


2024 Apr 18 11:02:00
blazer:  _/\_

2024 Apr 13 06:28:47
Dhammañāṇa: May all travel careful and safe and meet their relatives always in good fortune.

2024 Apr 08 22:43:14
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Apr 08 10:24:31
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Apr 08 06:05:52
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed New moon Uposatha by follow the Brahmacariya.

2024 Apr 06 19:05:27
Dhammañāṇa: * It's not so that one did not received much goodness either.

2024 Apr 06 19:04:36
Dhammañāṇa: It's not so that one received much goodness either.

2024 Apr 06 17:34:34
Dhammañāṇa: Avoid and be grateful anyway, as it's not so that their wasn't a try at least.

2024 Apr 06 17:33:09
Dhammañāṇa: And after others did their things, they get angry... No way to help, just good to avoid.

2024 Apr 06 14:15:01
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Apr 06 10:45:53
Dhammañāṇa: But usually people just seek excuses or let others do the work.

2024 Apr 06 10:44:20
Dhammañāṇa: If people would be clear about dukkha in all, they wouldn't be lazy and let others do, wouldn't consume instead of sacrifice.

2024 Apr 05 22:15:22
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Apr 05 18:51:35
Dhammañāṇa: Sensual craving, control-will, laziness, restlessness, and doubt. Nothing else hinders one from doing sacrifices, for here and for beyond.

2024 Apr 05 18:50:31
អរិយវង្ស: 🤦‍♀️

2024 Apr 05 18:49:10
អរិយវង្ស: ចិន្តីសូត្រ ទី៣ [] https://sangham.net/km/tipitaka/sut/an/03/sut.an.03.003

2024 Apr 05 18:47:40
Dhammañāṇa: Sensual craving, control-will, laziness, restlessness, and doubt. Nothing else hinders one from doing sacrifices, for here and for beyond.

2024 Apr 05 17:04:46
Dhammañāṇa: Yet nobody can take away good deeds done. So why don't just do it.

2024 Apr 05 12:31:40
Dhammañāṇa: When doubt or incapable to control or making one's own, than one does not go for it, often even wishing it destroyed.

2024 Apr 05 12:25:05
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Apr 04 17:32:20
អរិយវង្ស: កូណា _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Apr 04 14:56:02
Dhammañāṇa: Now fine?

2024 Apr 04 14:02:47
អរិយវង្ស: Media Files Media FilesUploadSearch Files in user:cheav_villa:privat  Sorry, you don't have enough rights to read files.

2024 Apr 04 13:58:43
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Apr 04 12:26:48
Dhammañāṇa: Atma moved them (13) to Nyoms private folder.

2024 Apr 04 09:47:09
អរិយវង្ស: កូណាច្រឡំ អាប់ឡូត រូបក្មុង Album លោកតា :o ជជែកគ្នារឿងឆេងម៉េង នៅកន្លែងការងារ បណ្តើរចុចៗ ចូលទៅឡូតចឹងទៅ😌

2024 Apr 04 04:54:49
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a grateful ancestor reminder day, reflecting beings of goodness (in the past) all around.

2024 Apr 04 00:50:34
Dhammañāṇa: :)

2024 Apr 03 22:17:46
អរិយវង្ស: លោកតាលែងបបូល កូណាធ្វើជណ្តើរ?

2024 Apr 03 22:17:18
អរិយវង្ស:  :)

2024 Apr 03 20:27:48
Dhammañāṇa: May the rain have been sufficient enough so that nobody would harm being of goodness, now resisting in other spheres, on tomorrow reminder day at least.

2024 Apr 02 13:03:04
blazer:  Bhante Dhammañāṇa _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Apr 02 07:00:28
Dhammañāṇa: Short after hype in "industrial revolutions" always comes the dark Red.

2024 Apr 01 09:23:59
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Apr 01 06:07:28
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a blessed Sila day by observing virtue and reflecting on goodness.

2024 Mar 29 21:32:04
Dhammañāṇa: 500 visitors  Amazon after AI food.

2024 Mar 24 19:07:11
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ 😌

2024 Mar 24 14:13:29
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 24 06:25:25
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed full moon Uposatha by following the conducts of the Arahats.

2024 Mar 23 13:11:16
blazer: Hello everyone  _/\_

2024 Mar 21 01:07:56
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom

2024 Mar 21 00:28:58
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 20 14:25:49
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 20 12:06:29
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom

2024 Mar 20 11:24:06
blazer: Good morning everyone  _/\_

2024 Mar 18 21:42:50
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 18 19:43:59
Dhammañāṇa: Mudita, Nyom.

2024 Mar 18 19:36:35
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Undertaking this Sila day at my best.

2024 Mar 18 06:17:10
Dhammañāṇa: Those who undertake the Sila day today: may it be of much metta.

2024 Mar 18 02:16:41
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 17 21:09:31
អរិយវង្ស: 🚬🚬🚬

2024 Mar 17 06:30:53
Dhammañāṇa: Metta-full Sila day, those after it today.

2024 Mar 17 00:02:34
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 11 09:16:04
Dhammañāṇa: Once totally caught by google, AI and machines, every door has been closed for long, long term.

2024 Mar 11 09:14:04
Dhammañāṇa: People at large just wait that another would do his/her duty. Once a slight door to run back, they are gone. By going again just for debts, the wheel of running away turns on.

2024 Mar 10 18:59:10
Dhammañāṇa: Less are those who don't use the higher Dhamma not for defilement-defence, less those who don't throw the basics away and turn back to sensuality "with ease".

2024 Mar 10 06:51:11
Dhammañāṇa: A auspicious new-moon Uposatha for those observing it today.

2024 Mar 09 06:34:39
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed New-moon Uposatha, and birth reminder day of a monarchy of wonders.

2024 Mar 08 21:39:54
Dhammañāṇa: The best way to keep an Ashram silent is to put always duties and Sila high. If wishing it populated, put meditation (eating) on the first place.

2024 Mar 03 21:27:27
Dhammañāṇa: May those undertaking the Sila day today, spend it off in best ways, similar those who go after the days purpose tomorrow.

2024 Feb 25 22:10:33
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 24 06:42:35
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Māgha Pūjā and Full moon Uposatha with much reason for good recallings of goodness.

2024 Feb 24 01:50:55
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 23 06:39:57
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom

2024 Feb 23 00:19:58
blazer: Taken flu again... at least leg pain has been better managed since many weeks and it's the greatest benefit. Hope Bhante Dhammañāṇa is fine  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 18 01:06:43
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 18 00:02:37
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 17 18:47:31
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed rest of todays Sila-day.

2024 Feb 17 18:46:59
Dhammañāṇa: Chau Marco, chau...

2024 Feb 16 23:32:59
blazer: Just ended important burocratic and medical stuff. I will check for a flight for Cambodia soon  _/\_

2024 Feb 09 16:08:32
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 09 12:17:31
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 09 06:42:17
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a blessed New moon Uposatha and last day of the Chinese year of the rabbit, entering the Year of the Naga wisely.

2024 Feb 02 21:17:28
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 02 19:53:28
Dhammañāṇa: May all have the possibility to spend a pleasing rest of Sila day, having given goodness and spend a faultless day.

2024 Jan 26 14:40:25
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 25 10:02:46
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a blessed Full moon Uposatha.

2024 Jan 11 06:37:21
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 07 06:31:20
Dhammañāṇa: May many, by skilful deeds,  go for real and lasting independence today

2024 Jan 06 18:00:36
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 04 16:57:17
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 04 12:33:08
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Sila-day, full of metta in thoughts, speech and deeds.

2023 Dec 30 20:21:07
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 27 23:18:38
Dhammañāṇa: May the rest of a bright full moon Uposatha serve many as a blessed day of good deeds.

2023 Dec 26 23:12:17
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 24 16:52:50
Dhammañāṇa: May all who celebrated the birth of their prophet, declaring them his ideas of reaching the Brahma realm, spend peaceful days with family and reflect the goodness near around them, virtuous, generously.

2023 Dec 20 21:36:37
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 20 06:54:09
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Sila day, by conducting in peacefull manners.

2023 Dec 12 23:45:24
blazer:  _/\_

2023 Dec 12 20:34:26
Dhammañāṇa: choice, yes  :)

2023 Dec 12 13:23:35
blazer: If meaning freedom of choice i understand and agree

2023 Dec 12 12:48:42
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 12 06:13:23
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a great New Moon Uposatha, following the conducts of the Arahats.

2023 Dec 10 12:51:16
Dhammañāṇa: The more freedom of joice, the more troubled in regard of what's right, what's wrong. My person does not say that people at large are prepared for freedom of joice even a little.

2023 Dec 10 10:59:42
blazer: Hope they eat more mindfully than how they talk. It is clear for the gross food, we had more than a talk about this topic. I have put so much effort in mindful eating at the temple, but when i was back i wanted more refined food. I was used to get a choice of more than 10 dishes every day

2023 Dec 10 06:57:44
Dhammañāṇa: A person eating on unskilled thoughts will last defiled, Nyom. Gross food does nothing for purification at all.

2023 Dec 09 21:41:58
blazer: I've had a couple of not nice experiences with monks that were not so pure in my opinion. They surely eat far better than me at temple.

2023 Dec 09 21:41:41
blazer: Ven. Johann  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 09 11:38:36
Dhammañāṇa: Spiritual prostitution, just another way of livelihood.

2023 Dec 05 20:59:38
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a pleasing rest of Sila-day.

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Author Topic: [Stories] Ajahn Brahm, warum er ausgeschlossen wurde - Ajahn Brahm, excommunicat  (Read 3648 times)

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Offline Dhammañāṇa

  • Bhikkhu
  • Very Engaged Member
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  • Gender: Male
  • (Samana Johann)
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527 Upasampadā 20240110
Gras darüber gewachsen , und ein Hase gräbt es, weil es noch immer intensiv riecht, wieder aus.

Gras was growing above it already, but a rabbit dig it out, because it still has its intensive smells.

Quote from: Sujatos Pages
Ajahn Brahm und warum er ausgeschlossen wurde

(freie Übersetzung ins Deutsche)

Eine Theravada-Bhikkhuni-Ordination wurde in Perth (Australien) am Dienstag den 22. Oktober abgehalten. Die Entschiedung mit den Prozess Bhikkhuni-Ordiantion fortzufahren, wurde am 20. September 2009, als das Kommitee der Buddhistischen Gemeinschaft Australiens einstimmig ihre Unterstützung zusagte. Wir waren uns klar, das es eine sensible Angelegenheit ist und beschlossen es, für die nächsten Monate, intern zu halten, so wir gerade die Vorbereitungen zu Ende brachten. Am Mittwoch, den 13. Oktober, 24 Tage nach dem die Entschiedung gefallen war, informierte ich Ajahn Sumedho in Amaravati, aus eine Sache der Höfflichkeit, während meines kurzen Besuches in den Verinigten Königreichen um meine Mutter zu sehen (sie hatte ensthafte Dementis)
Die Angelegenheit der Bhikkhuni-ordiantion wurde in Wat Pah Pong, etwa zwei Jahr zuvor, diskutiert, wie ich mich erinnere, und sie beschlossen dem Leiter des Mahatherasamakom (der höchste Mönch des Konzils von Thailand) zu folgen. Das ist der Grund, warum ich mich mit dem Handeln des Sangharaja, Somdej Prah Pootajam, aufsuchen mußte, gute Zeit zuvor, um ihn genau über seine Meinung über Bhikkhuni-ordiantion außerhalb von Thailand zu fragen. Seine Antwort, etwas das ich seit langer Zeit in der westlichen Sangha verbreitet habe, war: "Thailands Gesetze haben keinen Einfluß außerhalb von Thailand". Er wiederholte es noch zwei mal, um seine Absicht zu klar zu stellen.

Auch wenn meine Ordination in Thailand standgefunden hat, verstand ich, daß meine Pflichten gegenüber dem Dhamma und der Vinaya waren und nicht gegenüber dem Thailändischen Staat. Noch war da eine Treuepflicht gegenüber Thailand, teil des Rates, der mir von Handelnden Sangharaja (Sanghakönig), der mich mit dem ekklesiastischen Ehren von Tan Chao Khun aufwartete, gegeben wurde. Das Zertifikat, das ich zu dieser Zeremonie erhielt beinhaltet im Wesentlichen "Prah Brahmavamso des Bodhiyana Klosters in Australien, ist ein Mönch von königlichem Grad mit dem Titel Visuddhisamvarathera. Möge er die Pflich an Buddhas Nachlaß in den Lehren annehmen, Sanghaangelegenheiten schlichten und sich um die Mönche und Novizen in seinem Kloster in einer passenden Weise kümmern. Und möge er Glück und Wohlsein mit Buddhas Vermächtnis entwickeln.

"Bei dem Treffen in Wat Pah Pong am Sonntga den 1.November 2009, zu dem ich mit einer sehr kurzen Bemerkung gerufen wurde, war klar, dass die Seniormönche wenig Kenntnis über Vinaya im bezug auf Sanghakamma (formale Akte der Sanghaverwaltung), hatten. Zum Beispiel dauerte es eine lange Zeit sie zu überzeugen, dass die Bhikkhuni-ordiantion ein Doppelsanghakamma erfordert. Der erste Teil ist eine  Versammlung der Bhikkhunis, präsentiert vom Einweiser (“Upajjhaya” oder “Pavattini” -Ayya Tathaaloka für die USA) und der zweite Teil, in der die neue Bhikkhuni, die Bhikkhusangha aufwartet, um deren Bestättigung der der Ordination zu bekommen ñatticatutthakamma (ein formaler Akt, der von drei Ausrufungen gefolgt wird). Ich war einer der zwei Bhikkhus, die das ñatticatutthakamma in der Bhikkhu Sangha rezitierte.

So wie die Senior-Thai-Mönche verstanden, daß ich nicht der  Upajjhaya war, waren sie gewillt, den Fall wieder niederzulegen, vorausgesetzt, dass ich in Mitten der Sangha verspreche, nie wieder an einer Ordination von anderen Bhikkhunis teilzunehmen. Mich an das Beispiel von Ananda am ersten Konzil erinnernd, mache ich dieses Versprechen vor der versammelten Sangha drei mal. Es sah so aus, als wäre Harmonie wiederhergestellt.

Wie auch immer erhoben ein paar Mönche die Frage über den Status der vier Frauen, die Bhikkhuniordination erhalten hatten. Ich akzeptierte, dass diese nicht als Bhikkhunis in Thailand unter dem bestehenden Klima anzusehen sind, doch die Ordination war legetim und sie waren Bhikkhunis. Ein Seniormönch bestand darauf, dass die Ordination wegen "ditthi vipatti" ungültig war, welches er als eine Sache des ohne Einstimmung von Wat Pah Pong, erklärte. Wie jeder mit etwas Grundwissen über sanghakamma weiß, ist dies ein Unsinn. Wie auch immer, diese unbegründete Sichtweise hielt blieb an der Herrschaft und das Treffen kam zu einem klaren Entschluß. Wenn Ajahn Brahma in der Mitte der Sangha aussagen würde, das die vier Frauen keine Bhikkhunis sind, wurde es keine Sanktionen geben, im anderen Falle würde das Bodhiyana buddhistische Klöster von der Liste der Zweige des Klosters Wat Pah Pong gestrichen werden. IFür eine Minute inne haltend um zu reflektieren und bedachte, dass ich nicht gegen die Vinaya gehen kann und aussagen, dass die Bhikkhunis nicht angemessen ordiniert wurden, noch konnte ich gegen die Wünsche der Sangha von Bodhiyana und tausend Laienbuddhisten, die die Bhikkhuni-Ordination organisierten gehen, lehnte ich diese Aussage ab.

Als Ergebnis, wurde das Bodhinyana buddhistische Kloster als ein Ableger des Klosters Wat Pah Pong gestrichen. Ich unterstrich, dass diese Entscheidung nichts mit dem Prozess zu tun hat, indirekt oder anders, der Ordination zu tun hat. Die Entscheidung Bodhinyana buddhistisches Kloster zu auszuschließen, hielt einzig am Ablehnen zu sagen, dass die Ordination von Bhikkhunis ungültig war.

Nach dem die Versammlungformalitäten abgeschlossen waren, zollte ich meinen Respekt gegenüber vielen der Seniormönche, die mich an deren anhaltende Fraundschaft erinnerten. Zum Beispiel sagte ein alter Freund zu mir "meuan derm" (bedeutet "so wie vorher"). Ich hoffe, dass eine ähnliche Haltung sich auch unter all meinen Freunden in der westlichen Sangha durchsetzt.

Mit mega metta, Ajahn Brahm


Ajahn Brahm on why he was excommunicated

("original" (?), posted on Sujatos Pages

A Theravada Bhikkhuni Ordination was held in Perth on Thursday 22nd October. The decision to proceed with the Bhikkhuni Ordination was finalised only on 20th September 2009, when the Committee of The Buddhist Society of Western Australia unanimously gave their support. We did realise this was a sensitive matter and resolved to keep it in-house for the next month as we finalised the preparations. On Wednesday 13th October, 24 days after the decision was finalised, I informed Ajahn Sumedho in Amaravati, as a matter of courtesy, during my brief visit to the UK to see my mother (who has severe dementia).

The matter of Bhikkhuni Ordination had been discussed in Wat Pah Pong about two years ago and, as I recall, they resolved to follow the lead of the Mahatherasamakom (the supreme Monks’ Council of Thailand). I was and remain under the impression that the ordination of Bhikkhunis outside of Thailand was not contravening the rulings of the Mahatherasamakom. This is because I had consulted with the acting Sangharaja, Somdej Phra Pootajarn, well beforehand to ask him precisely his opinion on the ordination of Bhikkhunis outside of Thailand. His response, which I have circulated amongst the Western Sangha for a long time now, was “Thai Sangha law does not extend outside of Thailand”. He repeated this another two times to make his intention clear.
Even though my ordination as a monk was in Thailand, I understood that my obligations were to the Dhamma and Vinaya, not to the Thai state.

Nor was allegiance to Thailand part of the advice given to me by the Acting Sangharaja who presented me with the Thai ecclesiastical honour of Tan Chao Khun. The certificate that I received at the ceremony merely states that “Phra Brahmavamso of Bodhinyana Monastery in Australia is a monk of Royal Grade with the title of Phra Visuddhisamvarathera. May he accept the duty in the Buddha’s dispensation of teaching, settling Sangha business and looking after the monks and novices in his monastery in an appropriate manner. And to develop happiness and well being in the Buddha’s Dispensation.”

At the meeting in Wat Pah Pong on Sunday 1st November 2009, to which I was summoned at very short notice, it was apparent that the senior Thai monks had a poor understanding of the Vinaya rules concerning sanghakamma (formal acts of Sangha governance). For example, it took a long time to convince them that a Bhikkhuni Ordination is a double sanghakamma.The first part being performed by a gathering of Bhikkhunis presided over by the Preceptor (“Upajjhaya” or “Pavattini” -Ayya Tathaaloka from the USA) and the second part where the new Bhikkhunis approach the Bhikkhu Sangha to have their ordination confirmed by a ñatticatutthakamma (a formal motion followed by 3 announcements). I was one of the two Bhikkhus who chanted the ñatticatutthakamma in the Bhikkhu Sangha.

Once the senior Thai monks understood that I was not the Upajjhaya, they were willing to let the matter drop, provided I would promise in the midst of the Sangha not to participate in the ordination of any more Bhikkhunis. Remembering the example of Venerable Ananda at the First Council, I made that promise to the assembled Sangha three times. It looked as if harmony would be restored.

However, some senior monks raised the question of the status of the four women who had received Bhikkhuni Ordination. I accepted that they would not be regarded as Bhikkhunis in Thailand under the present climate, but the ordination was legitimate and they were Bhikkhunis. A senior monk then claimed that the ordination was invalid because of “ditthi vipatti”, which he explained as meaning without the approval of the Sangha of Wat Pah Pong. As anyone with a basic knowledge of sanghakamma knows, this is nonsense. However, that unfounded view held sway and the meeting came down to a single clear choice: If Ajahn Brahm would state in the midst of the Sangha that the four women were not Bhikkhunis then there would be no penalty, otherwise Bodhinyana Buddhist Monastery would be removed from the list of branch monasteries of Wat Pah Pong. I paused for a minute to reflect and, considering that I could not go against the Vinaya and state the Bhikkhunis were not properly ordained, nor could I go against the wishes of the Sangha of Bodhinyana and the thousands of lay Buddhists that support the Bhikkhuni Ordination, I refused to recant.

As a result, Bodhinyana Buddhist Monastery was removed as a branch monastery of Wat Pah Pong. I emphasise that this decision had nothing to do with the process, secretive or otherwise, through which the ordination took place. The decision to excommunicate Bodhinyana Buddhist Monastery rested solely on my refusal to state that the Bhikkhuni Ordination was invalid.

After the meeting formally concluded I paid my respects to many of the senior monks who reminded me of their continued friendship. For example, one old friend said to me “meuan derm” (meaning “just as before”). I hope that a similar attitude will prevail among all my friends in the Western Sangha.

With mega metta, Ajahn Brahm

Facebook - remember play is importand ...



Stay out of Colors! (song - Sila!) west music ** the east cost
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 01:37:28 PM by Johann »
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übrigens ein kurzer Lichblick hier wieder auf dw:

Quote from: By SarathW, on DW
I still do not understand what is the wrong done by AB.
Bikkhuni ordination already there so why AB was at fault?

==========
Because of current demographics, the Bhavana Society is only able to give full ordination to men. The continuity of the nuns' ordination in southeast Asia was lost centuries ago and was only reinstated in 1996 at Sarnath, India. At this ceremony eleven selected Sinhalese Dasa Sil Mata nuns were ordained fully as bhikkhunis by a group of Theravada monks together with a quorum of Korean nuns. Thus for the first time after about 980 years the Theravada Bhikkhuni Order was revived in India.

http://bhavanasociety.org/main/page/the ... n_process/

auch wenn der Poster da jetzt ganz wo anders ist.

Attma fragt, wo sind heute diese Nonnen?

Und was haben diese Nonnen mit all dem anderen heroischen Handlungen für die armen Frauen und Politik und Geld zu tun. Kommen Sie aus der Linie, von der man da erzählt??

Weiß man, dass man hier mit dem Schlüssel einer Einigung der Sangha herumspielt oder mit deren Verschinden, in dieser Verirrten Welt?

Um da das Gras das darüber gewachsen ist, wieder aufzuwühlen, sagen Sie nicht dort, wo die "eleven selected Sinhalese Dasa Sil Mata nuns were ordained fully as bhikkhunis by a group of Theravada monks together with a quorum of Korean nuns." herkommen...

Und wo liegt neben der Ausschlachtung des Themas dann noch ein Problem??
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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Back some year, 12 year, to india: 2003

Quote
A Lotus at Dawn:
Opening the Doors to the Theravada Bhikkhuni Sangha
By Yu Ban Lee, September 5, 2003


After an absence of more than 900 years the Theravada bhikkhuni sangha (order of nuns) was revived in India with the ordination of several women in Sarnath. Today there are more than 300 bhikkhunis, primarily in Sri Lanka, the only traditional Theravada country that has welcomed this new phenomenon. Yet when the idea was first promoted in the early 1990’s there was much criticism and opposition. The opposition to the revival still persists as the Theravada school of Buddhism, within which this revival occurred, is commonly recognised as one which is strict, traditional and which places the highest importance on orthodoxy.

 
The Bhikkhuni Order has Been Revived

In 1996, history was created as the Theravada bhikkhuni sangha was officially revived after a lapse of about a millennium with the ordination of 11 women in Sarnath. This event was followed by another organised on a greater scale at Bodhgaya in 1998. At this event, novices from 23 countries (including India, Sri Lanka, Thailand, Taiwan, Japan, Korea, the Congo, Germany, Belgium, France, Italy, Denmark, Spain, Canada and the United States) congregated to receive instruction from the text of the Vinaya before taking the monastic precepts as bhikkhunis from a quorum of 15 nuns from Taiwan and monks from several countries. In the same year another 23 women were ordained in Sri Lanka and thus initiated the core of the Theravada bhikkhuni sangha.

 

It is no longer a question of whether the Theravada bhikkhuni sangha could be revived, but whether this movement would be given the recognition and respect it seeks. In the years to come, undoubtedly, this movement will find its ranks swelling with new recruits, not only in Sri Lanka and Thailand where it was recently introduced, but also in countries throughout the world as women of all nationalities import the lineage into their lands. If this sangha is given recognition and respect openly and generously, then the Theravada Buddhist community has a new limb. It would gain an additional body of dedicated people who, with fresh resolve and promise, can be expected to bring to this great tradition a new vigour and assist in spreading the Dhamma to new lands. If instead, they are rejected and shunned, then what we will have is a conflict that will never go away, a thorn, an embarrassment, and an unanswered question that will haunt and split the Theravada Buddhist community forever.

 

Until My Bhikkhus and Bhikkhunis, Laymen and Laywomen, Have Come to be True Disciples……

Is there good reason for the revival of the bhikkhuni sangha? There seems little doubt from the scriptures that it was the Buddha’s intention that the bhikkhuni sangha should be established. At the request of his stepmother,MahaPajapati Gotami, and the intercession of Ven. Ananda, the Buddha opened the doors of the holy life to women, thus providing them the best opportunities to win liberation. As the Buddha was enlightened, we can believe that it is impossible that he could make a mistake or be persuaded to any action he did not approve of.

Indeed, we read from the scriptures that the Buddha, on several occasions praised individual bhikkhunis and made it clear that the bhikkhuni sangha was an integral part of his mission. There is the example from the Maha Parinibbana sutta, in which we see how the Buddha, who was then at Vesali, decided on the date of his Parinibbana or final passing away. Here, the Buddha was reminded of his words spoken to Mara soon after his enlightenment “I shall not come to my final passing away, Evil One, until my bhikkhus and bhikkhunis, laymen and laywomen, have come to be true disciples–wise, well disciplined, apt and learned, preservers of the Dhamma, living according to the Dhamma, abiding by appropriate conduct and, having learned the Master’s word, are able to expound it, preach it, proclaim it, establish it, reveal it, explain it in detail, and make it clear; until, when adverse opinions arise, they shall be able to refute them thoroughly and well, and to preach this convincing and liberating Dhamma.” This magnificent prophecy indicated that very early in the Buddha’s career he had already foreseen that his disciples would comprise these four important classes–bhikkhus, bhikkhunis, laymen and laywomen. When the Buddha came to be eighty years of age, he saw that this objective had been achieved and proclaimed that he will pass away at the end of three months.

Thus, opposition to the revival of the bhikkhuni sangha appears to be contrary to the intentions of the Buddha. Indeed it is a dark blemish on the Theravada tradition that it, cocooned in its orthodoxy, did not actively explore the re-establishment of the bhikkhuni sangha sooner, thereby crippling the spread of the Dhamma and depriving women of the opportunities of the ordained life for close to a thousand years.

 
The Problematic Rule

The opposition issued several reasons why the bhikkhuni sangha cannot be revived.  Most of them, in one way or another, centre around Theravada’s strict orthodoxy that once the bhikkhuni sangha became extinct 900 years ago, it became impossible to revive it.  This springs from a rule made by the Buddha that a bhikkhuni could only be ordained by the procedure of first having a woman novice ordained under a quorum of other bhikkhunis and which is then seconded by a quorum of monks. This rule, known as the dual-ordination procedure is described in the Cullavagga of the Vinaya texts.

The story goes that Pajapati Gotami, the stepmother of the Buddha, and her retinue of 500 women had travelled a long distance and now stopped at the gates of the monastery where the Buddha was residing.  Ananda encountered them and learnt of their desire to be ordained as bhikkhunis. With the diplomacy of Ananda acting on behalf of the women the Buddha agreed to the ordination of the women and that Pajapati Gotami herself would be first to become a bhikkhuni if she were to accept eight rules for the bhikkhunis. This, she gladly did, one of the rules being “A bhikkhuni must arrange for ordination by both the assemblies of bhikkhus and bhikkhunis for a woman novice only after two years probationary training under her in the observance of six training practices”.

Thus, the opposition today opines that there being no bhikkhunis, this rule cannot be complied with. Consequently, the bhikkhuni sangha cannot be legitimately revived.

Other reasons given in opposition to the bhikkhuni sangha suggest that even if it was possible, the bhikkhuni life is too difficult for women who should thus be content with ordination into an improvised order such as those of eight or ten precept nuns.

 
Why Revive the Bhikkhuni Sangha – the Holy Life and Twice the Resources

I would like to suggest that the bhikkhuni sangha be nurtured and encouraged and explain how the obfuscations standing in its way could be overcome.

Some may question the wisdom of a woman who wishes to ordain as a bhikkhuni. Why should a woman subject herself to such rules as those imposed on a bhikkhuni?  Why not become ten precept nuns where life is easier? The bhikkhuni life may not be suitable for every woman. This may make it all the more difficult to comprehend the motivations of one who chooses this lifestyle.  But this is only because it is our own wisdom and understanding that is short. The Buddha has opened the holy life to all and it is those individuals with a greater wisdom who would respond, who would renounce worldly life and dedicate themselves to the quest of the monastic lifestyle. If a woman wishes to take on these training rules prescribed by no lesser being than the Buddha himself, then such a woman should be applauded and her awesome determination respected.  Certainly a Buddhist should not look askance at her motivations. To suggest to her that she should forsake becoming a bhikkhuni in favour of a ten-precept nun is as ridiculous as suggesting to a monk that he should exchange his 227 Vinaya rules for the easier lifestyle of a five precept layman.

The monks have long been the vanguards of the Buddha’s dispensation, disseminating and teaching the Dhamma. Yet, all across Asia, for the last several decades, we have seen Buddhism eroded by Communism, materialism and the forays of Christianity. Indeed the only country where Buddhism does not appear to be under threat but may actually be flourishing is Taiwan. Strangely, it is the only nation where the nuns far outnumber the monks. Is this a mere co-incidence? I do not suggest that the country’s success in upholding Buddhism is the result of the sexual demographics of the monastics, but that the religion there has access to twice the amount of human resources. Indeed, whilst monks lead many of the largest Buddhist organizations in Taiwan, the administration is largely left to nuns who manage them with dedication and efficiency. Nuns are also at the forefront of several organisations involved in education and social work.

 
The Model of the Ten Precept Nun is a Failure

It could be argued that this hypothesis is incorrect as there are large numbers of eight and ten precept nuns in other countries such as Thailand and Sri Lanka. These orders are modelled after the bhikkhuni sangha but take the minimum of precepts. To this, is replied that the eight and ten precept nuns in these countries actually evoke very little respect from society and hence have little influence on it. For example, the white cladmaejis of Thailand and dasasils of Sri Lanka receive little support from the public. They have few temples or educational organizations to support them. And a significant segment of them serve little formal purpose other than as servants or helpers at the monasteries where they are given permission to stay. The nuns of Myanmar are in a slightly better position, but are still relegated to a much lower status than that of the monks. When introduced in western countries, these ten precept orders may find an equal status as prejudices have yet to step in and discriminatory practices are scorned. However in Buddhist Asia, it is a different situation. Although society here may accept these orders in their midst, it is also painfully aware that they are merely an improvisation. Whatever their designs, they are given little recognition and even less support. Consequently, they fail in their objectives of providing an effective holy life for women and as a benevolent influence on society.

 
Is There Reason for Opposition?

The great advantages that bhikkhunis provide themselves and the Buddhist communities they live in is obvious. However, the opposition, including those who see these benefits, choose to deny the aspirations of the women with the claim of preserving orthodox tradition. To be clear, the opposition claims that the ordination of bhikkhunis breaks the rules of tradition. Logic and reason are strong points in Theravada practice. Yet, it must be the height of irony and a total perversion of logic that the opposition, in attempting to uphold the rules of tradition, would directly cause the same tradition’s extinction. Surely, the rules formulated by the Buddha were to protect his dispensation, not to obstruct or destroy it.

 
How the Bhikkhuni Sangha Could be Revived

In any case, are the arguments that the Vinaya rules do not allow the revival of the bhikkhuni sangha unimpeachable? No. Although the opposition makes a good case against the revival of the bhikkhuni sangha on technical grounds, certainly, the monks who support the movement and were instrumental in the revival think that there is sufficient material in the Vinaya to arrive at a different conclusion.

The pertinent arguments for a differing interpretation of the rules regarding the ordination of bhikkhunis are as follows:

    In the MahaParinibbana sutta, where it was described that the Buddha was preparing to pass way, he called his loyal attendant Ananda and advised that the Sangha was permitted to abolish the lesser and minor rules. With this final concession provided by the Buddha, it becomes possible for a quorum of monks to make the necessary amendments to the rules to revive the bhikkhuni sangha.  If any monk believes that the rules pertaining to the ordination of bhikkhunis fall outside the category of lesser and minor rules he could be invited into the community of monks to justify his position.

    As was mentioned earlier, the dual ordination rule was part of the eight rules accepted by Pajapati Gotami before the Buddha would ordain her and set up the bhikkhuni sangha. After this event, the Buddha told the monks about his instructions to Pajapati Gotami and gave the injunction “I permit you monks, to confer full ordination on bhikkhunis”. This may sound surprising but of course, we see that there were insufficient bhikkhunis to form the first quorum and also there were no women novices yet. Thus the Buddha had logically allowed the monks to confer full ordination on this first batch of women. This injunction itself should be sufficient to provide adequate authority to monks today to confer ordination without the procedure of dual ordination at places and at times where a quorum of bhikkhunis and women novices do not yet exist.  The injunction by the Buddha at the first institution of the bhikhuni sangha should be equally valid at this time as we are under the very same circumstances. In further support of this, we could use as an example the practice of English law today which includes that which is known as “common law”. This practice uses precedence of past decisions as a valid basis for decisions that could legitimately be applied today.  Surely, there could be no greater precedence and authority than the decision of the Buddha.

    However, even if the dual ordination procedure is insisted upon, this requirement could still be satisfied. We understand from historical records that the bhikkhuni sangha in Mahayana countries such as China and Korea is a direct descendent of the bhikkhuni sangha of Sri Lanka.  These records indicate that in 429 C.E. and 432 C.E. two delegations of Sri Lankan bhikhunis, the latter group headed by the bhikkhuni Devasara reached China and conferred the dual ordinations for the Chinese nuns. Thus it is possible for Theravada bhikkhunis to receive back this continuous and unbroken lineage. The point that the Mahayana nuns have different religious beliefs is irrelevant as ordination is a matter of Vinaya and not beliefs. As a counter-argument, it could be reasoned that among Theravada monks, there is also a variety of religious beliefs but this does not affect their status as monks. Although there are other technical points for further opposition in this matter, none among them appears to be absolutely restrictive. Among the Theravada scholar monks who support this possibility are Ven Dr Walpola Rahula and Ven Dr K Sri Dhammananda who also attended the bhikkhuni ordination at BodhGaya in 1998.

    Following from 3 above, even if the bhikkhuni who receives part of her ordination from the Mahayana sangha, is not recognized by her Theravada brethren, it appears there is nothing in the Vinaya rules she has undertaken to stop her from practicing Theravada Buddhism. She is able to dress, recite the suttas and do all her religious duties in the Theravada form as the Mahayana school of Buddhism recognizes Theravada as a valid subset of itself.  So at the very least, the bhikkhuni sangha could be accepted as a Mahayana ordained body which practises Theravada Buddhism.

 
Finally, What is the Dhamma-Vinaya?

It is conceded that the proposed avenues above are not so clear that they can be readily agreed to without objections. Whichever side of the controversy one chooses to sit, really rests on one’s inclinations. However, in attempting to see above the arguments, an all-important question we should ask ourselves is – what is the fundamental purpose of the Dhamma-Vinaya?  Is it all then just a legal code?

Buddhism is a beautiful, gentle religion that speaks to the heart of all who would listen.  It opens our minds to wisdom and compassion and leads us away from the dark dogmas that shackle us to superstitious beliefs and harmful actions. How can we deny our sisters their choice of leading their lives as bhikkhunis; the right to fulfil their aspirations, maybe even their destinies?  Do we have sufficient reason? Is it enough to merely say that we wish to uphold the rules of the tradition? Perhaps – if these rules are absolute and there is not the tiniest sliver of light between its sturdy doors. But as we can see, this is not the case. There exists an opportunity to make amends, to set upright what has long been left fallen, and to gift our sisters what the brothers have long enjoyed. The revived bhikkhuni sangha is a lotus at dawn. Whether it is greeted by the warm rays of our welcome, or broken by the storms of rejection are now the choices before the Theravada communities.  May we all choose wisely.

 



 

Copyright © Yu Ban Lee (given generously to share via Sangham as Dhamma Dana gift. You are invited to forward and sahre it)
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Just to address any concerns of heresay or rumours below is the link. I hesitated to post the link earlier but as it was set to 'public' and has been there for 6 months, I guess my concerns was unnecessary. I don't wish for this issue to be blown up again but it has been 6 years already. C'mon. Even lay people do not hold grudges for so long. As lay people who support the sangha, we wish to see harmony and good will. What has anyone to lose by getting past this episode.
Robert,I 'm sure you'll agree that the teachings on metta, reconciliation, and compassion are to be practised unconditionally and not to manipulate the actions of another.
Quote from: Facebooklink eingebettet
The email below was sent by Ajahn Brahm to BF on 23 Mar 2015. As it has not reached BF members to-date, Ajahn Brahm has requested for this email to be posted up so that it can be referenced for the purpose of clarification to the email sent by BF on 22 Mar 2015 to all its members.

Date: 23 Mar 2015 12:07
Subject: Clarification from Ajahn Brahm
To: <info@buddhistfellowship.org>
Cc:

Dear Members of the BF,

I was forwarded a message from the Buddhist Fellowship on 23 March regarding the relationship between the BF and Bodhinyana Singapore. The message contained inaccuracies and misrepresented my views, which reasons prompted me to write.

1. The Executive Retreat is taught by me and, as such, I believe that I have a say in who organizes it. I have not received ANY invitation from the BF to conduct any retreat in 2015 but I did receive an invitation from Bodhinyana Singapore to hold such a retreat this year and, therefore, I accepted. I asked that the retreat places be open to all people, including members of the BF. I am not concerned who organizes and runs the Executive Retreat as long as it happens. Angie conceived the idea of an Executive Retreat, she has done a good job of organizing all the Executive Retreats in the past, and she agrees that it should be open to all.

So, BF Executive committee, your Spiritual Patron asks that you advertise this retreat to your members and create some harmony between the BF and Bodhinyana Singapore. Teaching Dhamma is more important than squabbling over who owns the "Executive Retreat".

Also it is my understanding that none of the Directors of Bodhinyana Singapore obtain any personal financial gain from their activities as Directors. All proceeds go towards spreading the Dhamma, as is the case with the BF.

2. It is not true to state, as the message did, that "It was Ajahn Brahm's personal advice to Buddhist Fellowship that we open our doors to senior teachers of the Dharma". There are many senior teachers in the world who grossly misrepresent the Dhamma, like Devadatta in the time of the Buddha. It is my advice to proceed with caution when inviting teachers. Please do not misrepresent me.

In particular, I discovered from non-BF sources that someone in the BF had invited Ajahn Sumedho to teach at the BF. By the time that I found out, it was a fait accomplis. I had no prior input. I was not consulted.

I remember telling Bita in Jhana Grove in October 2014, AFTER I had found out that the BF was inviting Wat Pah Pong monks, that I would recommend monks like Ajahn Liam and Ajahn Jayasaro, but not Ajahn Sumedho or Ajahn Nyanadhammo. Those two monks, in my opinion, were instrumental in spreading false information about the Bhikkhuni Ordination in Perth 2009 and having me excommunicated from the monastery in which I grew up. To this day, they obstruct, without grounds from the Vinaya, the equal treatment of women in Buddhism. To find out more, please look up the draconian FIVE POINTS, unilaterally imposed by Ajahn Sumedho on the Buddhist Nuns in UK.

As recently as June 2014, I attempted to have a meeting with Ajahns Sumedho and Nyanadhammo in their monastery in Thailand. I got as far as Ajahn Ganha's monastery, from where one can see Ajahn Sumedho's monastery, but I was refused a meeting. Then, in October 2014, I visited Canada and arranged a meeting with my old friend Ajahn Viradhammo at a venue only five minutes drive from his monastery. He was home but refused to come to meet me. Unfortunately, this leads me to assume that there remains much ill will towards me from these monks. After five plus years, this is very sad. All of my attempts at reconciliation have been rudely rebuffed. There have been no reciprocal attempts at restoring harmony from monks like Ajahn Sumedho, I am disappointed to say. It is hard for me to recommend such monks to teach at the BF. Their words may inspire but their actions do not seem to match, I am sorry to say. However, its up to the BF Executive who they invite, but please do not imply that I approve of such choices.

Please forward this to all the members who received the email that misrepresented me.

With Mega Metta, Ajahn Brahm

Ohne Worte... (sicher... wird nur ein Facebook-Jock sein...)

Sie können sich Roberts Antwort, neben den Kommentaren des Datenbankadmins mit Hut von Sujato ansehen.

Was Dhamma-Vinaya betrifft, so war dem Buddha Dhamma und Vinaya wichtiger als "bloße" Einigkeit. Über 1000 Jahre mußte die Welt auf diese Rockzipfelhelden warten... das ist wirklich erbährmlich.

Um das "Ziehen" zu verstehen:

Aussetzung mag über einen Bhikkhu verhängt werden, der eine Handlung vollbringt, die ein Vergehen darstellt, jedoch aberkennt, dieses als Vergehen zu sehen; einer der eine Handlung begeht, die ein Vergehen darstellt, jedoch ablehnt Wiedergutmachtung dafür zu tun; oder ablehnt schlechte Ansichten abzulegen (unter dem Umstand beschrieben in Vibhaṅga zu Pc 68). Der Ablauf für die Aussetzung eines Bhikkhus, ist der selbe wie bei der Rüge. Die Fragen die aufkommen bezüglich dem 'was er eingesteht' bedeuten: das sich der Bhikkhu zuerst zu den Vorwürfen bekennt, und später, nur mit Nachdruck der Gemeinschaft, sie als Vergehen einsieht. Oder, daß er selbst nach dem Nachdruck nur die Tat eingesteht, jedoch nicht das Vergehen? Die ursprüngliche Geschichte zeichnet die letztere Version heraus, da hier keine Erwähnung des fraglichen Bhikkhus ist (Ehrw. Canna, siehe Sg 12), der eine Vergehen gesteht. Diese Beobachtung wird durch Mv. IX.5.6, welche besagt, daß wenn eine Bhikkhu eine Handlung als seine Vergehen eingesteht, jedoch dann wegen Nichteingestehen ausgesetzt wird, die Abwicklung, als nicht im Einklang mit dem Dhamma, zu sehen ist. Im Bezug auf die vorhergehende Alternative, wo der Missetäter sein Vergehen nur unter Nachdruck eingesteht, fällt dies unter die Abwicklung für weiterführender Bestrafung.

Die Kommentare zu Cv.I.33 geben an, daß ein 'Stifter von Unruhe' zu sein, unter der Vorbedingung dieser Abwicklung, zu dem Fall, wo ein Bhikkhu in Befragung seine verfestigten Ansichten, als Basis für die Unruhe, benützt, passt.

Die Einschränkungen, verhängt über einen ausgesetzten Bhikkhu, sind die selben, wie für einen gerügten Bhikkhu, mit dem Zusatz, daß er keine Zusammensein mit der Bhikkhu Saṅgha haben kann. In Belangen spezifisch beigefügter Einschränkungen bedeuten diese:

*    er sollte nicht einwilligen, das ein regulärer Bhikkhu sich vor ihm verbeugen möchte, aufsteht um ihn zu begrüßen, Añjali ihm gegenüber erweist, Handlungen des Respekts erweist, ihm eine Sitzgelegenheit bringt, Wasser für Fußwaschen, eine Fußunterlage, einen Fußabstreifer bringt, seine Schüssel oder Robe empfängt, seinen Rücken während des Bades reibt;
*    er sollte keinen regulären Bhikkhu des Korrumpierens der Verhaltensregeln, Verhalten, Ansichten oder Lebensweise anschuldigen;
*    er sollte keine Bhikkhus veranlassen sich von Bhikkhus zu trennen;
*    er sollte keine bezeichnenden Gewänder ("Abzeichen") von Haushältern oder Mitglieder anderer Religionen tragen, er sollte sich nicht mit Mitgliedern anderer Religionen abgeben, er sollte sich mit Bhikkhus abgeben (mit anderen Worten, selbst wenn er kein Beisammensein mit Bhikkhus hat, sollte er sich als Bhikkhu identifizieren), er sollte sich in den Übungen für Bhikkhus üben;
*    er sollte nicht in einem Anwesen oder Nichtanwesen, unter dem selben Dach mit einem regulären Bhikkhu bleiben (Anwesen bedeutet hier ein Gebäude, gebaut um Leute zu beherbergen; Nichtanwesen jedes andere Gebäude);
*    wenn er einen regulären Bhikkhu sieht, sollte er sich erheben, er sollte keinen Bhikkhu außerhalb oder innerhalb (eines Klosters, sagen die Kommentare) ansprechen.

Pc 69 erweitert die Bedeutung von Beisammensein, indem da angeführt ist, daß jeder Bhikkhu, der sich mit einem ausgesetzten Bhikkhu abgibt (Dhamma oder sonstige materiellen Dinge teilt), sich ihm anschließt (sich einer gemeinsamen Aktion anschließt), oder sich in der selben Bleibe nieder läßt, eine Pācittiya Vergehen begeht. Siehe die Diskussion unter dieser Regel im Detail.

Wenn der ausgesetzte Bhikkhu sich an die oben angeführten Einschränkungen hält, mag die Gemeinschaft, auf Anfrage, ihm von seiner Aussetzung entheben. Der Kanon führt eine spezielle Bemerkung für den Fall eines Bhikkhu, ausgesetzt für Nichtablegen von schlechten Ansichten, an. Wenn er die Robe ablegt, während er ausgesetzt ist, sollte die Gemeinschaft die Aussetzung aufheben.

Aussetzung ist das schwerste Disziplinarverfahren, daß nicht nur den ausgesetzten Mönch von der üblichen Zusammengehörigkeit trennt, sondern ihn auch in eine Position bringen kann (wenn er Anhänger findet), in der er einen Keim, für eine langwierige separate Zugehörigkeit in der Saṅgha (siehe Anhang V), erzeugen kann. Da eine Aussetzung direkt auf dem Grund des Konflikts ansetzt (was ist und was nicht Dhamma ist, was ein und was kein Vergehen ist), kann es sich zu einem Konflikt ausdehnen, der selbst zu einer Spaltung führt. Daher sollte dies nicht leichtfertig durchgeführt werden. Mv.X.1.5-8 erzählt, wie Buddha, nachdem er unterrichtet wurde, daß ein, für Nichteinsehen eines Vergehens, ausgesetzter Bhikkhu, einen Anhänger gewonnen hat, zuerst zu dem Bhikkhu, der ihn ausgesetzt hatte ging, und ihm anhielt, über die Gefahren von Aussetzung eines Bhikkhus, zu reflektieren. Nicht nur würden sie der Gemeinschaft beraubt sein, auch wurde der Akt einer Aussetzung, vielleicht einen Konflikt oder eine Spaltung in der Gemeinschaft verursachen. Dann ging er zu den Anhängern des ausgesetzten Bhikkhus und erklärte ihnen in selber Weise zu reflektieren, anmerkend, daß jemand der die Schwere einer Spaltung (§ - BD fehlübersetzte dieses als "Neigung zu einer Spaltung") erkennt, ein Vergehen eingestehen sollte "selbst wenn es nur im Vertrauen in andere ist", um damit die Gefahr der Aussetzung abzuhalten, die beide, er selbst und die Gemeinschaft im Großen, nachkommend hätten.

Und um zu Verstehen warum das gesagt wurde:

Diese solche Ordination wird folgendes bewirken:

    Ende einer Entwicklung einer rechtsschafenden Sangha in Deutschland und ev. in Europa.
    Schwächung oder Auslöschung der männlichen Grundsangha.
    Spaltungen der Sangha oder Vertiefungen.
    Das Unmöglich machen eines weiteren Handelns der Sangha.
    Für Frauen, die den guten und gemäßen Weg gehen wird eine Ordination unmöglich, da diese schon eine Spaltung vor der Gründung sein würde.
    Das Ende der Bildung der Sangha vor ihrem Beginn.

So wie es aussieht, wird es ein 7. Konzil der Sangha, in dieser Buddhaperiode nicht mehr geben, oder ohne Teilnahme der Neuen Länder (das wären, nur um eine Vorstellung zu bekommen: ein Verhältnis von 10 - 1000 Bhikkhus in der Versammlung). Aber es ist auch gut, damit jegliche Sangha, die sich noch an die Regeln des Buddhas hält, mit dieser Respektlosen Welttour der "Abtrünnigen Bhikkhus" und den Kampagnen der Respektabgeneigten Bhikkunibewegungen, schon in den nächsten wenigen Jahren aus diesem Sonnensystem verschwindet.

Wenn es do noch einmal zu einem Konzil kommen wird, dann, wenn diese Fragen, in diesem Klima (Anstelle es weise und respektvoll zu machen und vor allem ehrlich), auf den Tisch kommen, wird dieses eine mächtige Spaltung verursachen und ein achtes Konzil, wäre dann nur mehr ein Abschiedskonzil.

Na vielleicht sind ja auch ein paar mit etwas Gewissen unter den Sujato, Brahmali und Co. und Früchteersehner, die etwas mehr als ihre Rechtsvorstellungen im Geist haben und diese alte Tradition ohne Rücksichte zerstören, geplant, ausgedacht und unter der Hand.

Also wer nun immer noch nicht 1+1 zusammenzählen und die Welttouren verstehen kann oder noch immer meint dem Bauch vor dem unverwickelten Geist anhören zu sollen, dem mag erst nach Fruchten geholfen werden, wenn überhaupt.

Wie gültige die ganzen Dinge sind, abgesehen von "was nicht Dhamma Vinaya ist, so und so nie gültig wird" mag jeder der Mitiniziatoren, in seiner Gewissensruhe prüfen.



(Diese ganzen Bilder dort ansehen... solche Leute lehren Achtsamkeit und Tugend... und werden auch noch zum Freuen und Spaß "nichternstgenommen" und geteilt...)



*kein passender Emo verfügbar*



7. Pārājika 7.
Should any bhikkhunī follow a bhikkhu who has been suspended by a united Community (of bhikkhus) in line with the Dhamma, in line with the Vinaya, in line with the teacher's instructions, and who is disrespectful, has not made amends, has broken off his friendship (with the bhikkhus), the bhikkhunīs are to admonish her thus: "Lady, that bhikkhu has been suspended by a united Community in line with the Dhamma, in line with the Vinaya, in line with the teacher's instructions. He is disrespectful, he has not made amends, he has broken off his friendship. Do not follow him, lady."

And should that bhikkhunī, thus admonished by the bhikkhunīs, persist as before, the bhikkhunīs are to rebuke her up to three times so as to desist. If while being rebuked up to three times she desists, that is good. If she does not desist, then she also is defeated and no longer in affiliation for being "a follower of a suspended (bhikkhu)."
 (§¶•) [1]


Sollte irgend eine Bhikkhuni einen Bhikkhu folgen, der von einer geinten Gemeinschaft (von Bhikkhus), im Einklang mit dem Dhamma, im Einklang mit der Vinaya, im Einklang mit des Lehrers Anweisungen, und welcher respektlos ist ausgesetzt ist, keine Wiedergutmachungen gemacht hat, seine Freundschaft (mit den Bhikkhus) abgebrochen hat, haben die Bhikkhunis sie in dieser Weise zu ermahnen: "Werte Frau, dieser Bhikkhu wurde von einer geeinten Gemeinschaft, im Einklang mit dem Dhamma, im Einklang mit der Vinaya, im Einklng mit des Lehrers Anweisungen, ausgesetzt. Er ist respektlos, er hat keine Wiedergutmachungen gemacht, er hat seine Freundschaft abgebrochen. Folgt ihm nicht, werte Frau."

Und sollte diese Bhikkhuni, so ermahnt von den Bhikkhunis, wie zuvor beharren, haben die Bhikkhunis sie bis zu drei Mal zu ermahnen, um abzulassen. Wenn, bis zu drei mal ermahnt, sie abläßt, ist es gut. Wenn sie nicht abläßt, dann ist sie auch abgelehnt, und nicht länger mehr Zugehörig, weil "Folger eines ausgesetzten (Bhikkhus)."

Wenn da eine wahrlich eine rechtschaffende Bhikkhuni-Sangha wäre, wäre es auch an ihr, zum Wohle der Sangha ihren Regeln (so sie daran halten) zu folgen.

Ein Pārājika bedarf ja normal keinem Verfahren oder sonst etwas, was da die Kommentare dazu sagen und wie das mit einem bedingten Pārājika gemacht wird... das ist sicher etwas für die Gelehrten.

Denn Sinn verstehend und sehend, ist es für jeden mit etwas Weisheit klar.

Die Deutschen Klösterlichen aber auch Laiengemeinden, werden eine wesentliche Rolle (so sie es im Untergrund ja fleißig tun) spielen zu dem was nicht nur so einher gesagt, und nur für diesen Fall, wurde:

Der Verkrüppelte Elefant

Bhikkhu Anālayo beendet seinen Artikel mit einer weiteren Analogie: Die Religion ist wie ein Elefant mit drei fehlerfreien Beinen (die Bhikkhus, die männlichen Laienanhänger und die weiblichen Laienanhänger) und einem verkrüppelten Bein (die Bhikkhunīs). Die Wiederherstellung der Bhikkhunī-Saṅgha, sagt er, würde das verkrüppelten Bein heilen und dem Elefant erlauben leichter zu gehen.

Aber nochmal, diese Analogie ist unpassend. Eine passendere Analogie wäre diese: Die Religion, ist wie ein Elefant, mit einem abgetrennten Bein. Ein Doktor möchte das Bein wieder anmachen, trotzdem es schon lange tot ist und seine Mittel für das Umsetzen kontaminiert sind. Wenn die Operation weiter geht, wird es den Elefanten dem Tod entgegen treiben.

Und wie könnte man einen Elefanten, bereits im Komma, so bebeint noch retten? Oder ist eine vierbeinige Leiche, zum erinnern, besser? In Südostasien durchaus üblich Leichen vor der Beerdigung zusammenzuflicken, was immer es auch kosten mag - "Fua a schöne Leich", würd' ma hier sagen.







Die Audienz, die höher sitzt anbeteten...



... und wie sie sich erfreuen (Gier bis ins Gesicht gelangt), also nicht mal für einen Schauspieler eine Zukunft ... da überlege man mal wieviel da für einen Bhikkhu ist.




« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 08:46:55 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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