Why and how Mohayanas and "Buddhist" justify killing and stealing.
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Author Topic: Why and how Mohayanas and "Buddhist" justify killing and stealing.  (Read 1837 times)

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Offline Johann

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Atma recently came to get known the "reddit-Buddhism " social network for hungry ghosts and there in this, like in most Buddhist forum the Moha-yana dominates. On how those "heroes" justify their ways of killing and stealing might be more clear if one reads their Suttas, lies and reply's on topics like euthanasia and dealing with Dhamma. This wired sect, calling themselves "Buddhists" is even more dangerous as a radical Taliban organization.

Quote from: deathnate4 on ratdit

    The Skill In Means ([An]Upayakausalya) Sutra, as translated by Mark Tatz, goes like this:

    Then the Lord [Buddha] again addressed the Bodhisattva Jnanottara: “Son of the family: Once a upon a time, long before the Thus-come-one, the Worthy, the fully perfected Buddha Dipamkara, there were five hundred merchants who set sail on the high seas in search of wealth. Among the company was a doer of dark deeds, a doer of evil deeds, a robber well-trained in the art of weaponry, who had come on board that very ship to attack them. He thought, “I will kill all these merchants when they have achieved their aims and done what they set out to do, take all possessions and go to Jambu Continent.”

    “Son of the family: then the merchants achieved their aims and set about to depart. No sooner had they done so, than that deceitful person thought: “Now I will kill all these merchants, take all their possessions and go to Jambu Continent. The time has come.” At the same time, among the company on board was a captain named Great Compassionate. While Captain Great Compassionate slept on one occasion, the deities who dwelt in that ocean showed him in a dream: ‘’’Among this ship’s company is a person named so and so, of such and such sort of physique, of such and such, garb, complex, and shape—a robber mischievous, a thief of others’ property. He is thinking,” I will kill all these merchants, take all their possessions and go to Jambu Continent.”

    To kill these merchants would create formidable evil karma for that person. Why so? These five hundred merchants are all progressing toward supreme, right and full awakening; they are each irreversible from awakening. If he should kill these Bodhisattvas, the fault—the obstacle caused by the deed—would cause him to burn in the great hells for as long as it take each one of these Bodhisattva to achieve supreme, right and full awakening, consecutively. Therefore, Captain, think of some skill in means to prevent this person from killing the five hundred merchants and going to the great hells because of the deed.’

    “Son of the family: Then the captain Great Compassionate awoke. He considered what means there might be to prevent that person from killing the five hundred merchants and going to the great hells. Seven days passed with a wind averse to sailing to Jambu Continent. Without wind during those seven days he plunged deep into thought, not speaking to anyone. “He thought, ‘There is no means to prevent this from slaying the merchants and going to the great hells but to kill him.’ “And he thought, ‘if I were to report this to the merchants, they would kill and slay him with angry thoughts and all go to the great hells themselves.’ “And he thought, ‘if I were to kill this person, I would likewise burn in the great hells for one hundred-thousand eons because of it. Yet I can bear to experience the pain of the great hells, that this person not slay these five hundred merchants and develop so much evil karma. I will kill this person myself.

    “Son of the family: Accordingly, the captain Great Compassionate protected those five hundred merchants and protected that person from going to the great hells, by deliberately stabbing and slaying that person who was a robber with a spear, with great compassion and skill in means. And all among the company achieved their aims and each went to his own city. Son of the family. At that time, in that life I was none other than the Captain Great Compassionate. Have no second thought or doubt on this point. The five hundred merchants on board the five hundred Bodhisattvas who are to niranize to supreme, right and full awakening in this auspicious eon.

    “Son of the family: For me, Samsara was curtailed for one hundred-thousand eons because of that skill in means and great compassion. And the robber died to be reborn in a world of paradise. The five hundred merchants on board are the hundred future Buddhas of the auspicious eon. Son of the family, what do you think of this? Can curtailing birth and death for one hundred-thousand eons with that skill in means and that great compassion with gnosis of skill in means be regarded as the Bodhisattva’s obstacle caused by past deeds? Do not view it in that way. That should be regarded as his very skill in means.”



Of course Atma got soon killed following the compassionate words of the top heroes and Bodhisattvas:

Quote from: Bodhisattva Zrxn
May the Light of Mahayana shine upon you and may you one day awaken bodhicitta and see that you are walking the Bodhisattva path. (Bodhisattva Zrxn)
 

Quote from: ??
Nagarjuna:

    O sublime, precious bodhicitta,

    May it arise in those in whom it has not arisen.

    May it never decline where it has arisen,

    But go on increasing further and further



On stealing from Buddha, Dhamma Sangha:

[–]clickstation

http://accesstoinsight.org :)

(Or to be more precise http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/index.html)


[–]Samana_Johann

Such is give, do never buy Dhamma or even steal, debbxi! Only in that way you could benefit. By intention, words and deeds.




[–]clickstationchan

To be fair, translators and publishers gotta eat, too.


[–]Samana_Johann

Foolish thought, to be straight forward. Not even the requirement to teach and actually (let me bet) you have never given food to any monk, have you ever given something?

Dhamma is not able to be carried by laypeople. That is impossible, and actually there is more destroyed as gained.

Maybe you like to start to learn about economy of gifts

A monk (a person) is not worthy of what he gives you back, such would stay in the world. That is because you have been introduced by dealers into the teachings, and as they deal (making a livelihood on Dhamma selling, monks as lay people), how could they teach different and just like the Buddha taught. If you are more a Tibetan, study the Bodhisattva vows and what it would cause to earn money in the name of the Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha.


   
One should not make an effort everywhere, should not be another's hireling, should not live dependent on another, should not go about as a trader in the Dhamma. Paṭisalla Sutta


There is no way to gain any from a buy of a Dhamma book, you might have entertainment, but you even increase "I can" and I am independent and wrong view. If we talk about the buyer.

Somebody who sells the Dhamma, is really a poor person. You can be sure, he will never have a happy life at the end. Its not possible to be the great giver, if living on the first floor. That is why Sila has much more value in this case. No need to give if not possible.

Atma gives it 10 year, if there is no change, and the Sangha is gone from this world. Never see it again for the most.

You will not easily get such straight forward words, so think about it. Its not for a bad.


[–]clickstation

Honestly, and no offense, I'm having a tough time understanding what you mean.

But one thing is clear: I'm not disparaging monks in any way. I'm just saying that "buying Dhamma" isn't always a bad thing, especially if it's simply a translation, where the translator's "Dhamma level" doesn't factor too much into it.

And I certainly can't agree that one can't benefit from the Dhamma if it's "bought."


[–]debbxi

...yea... and I wouldn't know how else to receive it at this point.


[–]Samana_Johann

Don't worry, Atma did not feel you offend consciously (but unknowingly, which is actually more dangerous, its not so that one knows without having be taught aside of some seldom Paccecabuddhas this days in this world, and they are not able to teach.) all, Mr/Mrs Clickstation.

    I'm just saying that "buying Dhamma" isn't always a bad thing, especially if it's simply a translation, where the translator's "Dhamma level" doesn't factor too much into it.

Its the fist time in 2500 years that Dhamma is sold. It is always a bad thing, not knowing is also akusala. That why you are taught, to make not the same mistake. Live your live and if you are inspired to give, give. If not not, not. No need to sell something what is not ones own. An Arahat would have the right, but he do it neither. That is Osho-Dhamma, what you costumers get served. Buddhas economy is beyond the world and there is no way to really misuse it without earning the fruits, sooner or later.

So when ever you enter, think about what you can give, not vici versa.


[–]clickstation

Well, I understand you better now, and you hold a good point.

Still, in my opinion, that's the ideal.. but not the bare minimum :)

Let's agree to disagree.


[–]clickstation

Well, I understand you better now, and you hold a good point.

Still, in my opinion, that's the ideal.. but not the bare minimum :)

Let's agree to disagree.



[–]Samana_Johann

No problem, Dhukka is "just", no need to go to a judge to come to the Buddha at least if came in contact one time.


[–]Fire_Elemental - vajrayana
   
If you are more a Tibetan, study the Bodhisattva vows and what it would cause to earn money in the name of the Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha.


Please don't disparage other Buddhist vehicles, schools, teachers, etc. here are /r/Buddhism.


[–]Samana_Johann

Who tells? Avannaraha Sutta: Dispraise . So is it yours? Better train your Bodhisattva Vows.

If that is not right, read and learn. First the shared Sutta. And then Root Bodhisattva Vows - A root downfall means a loss of the entire set of bodhisattva vows.

(2) Not sharing Dharma teachings or wealth# (3) Not listening to others' apologies or striking others (5) Taking offerings intended for the Triple Gem (6) Forsaking the holy Dharma (12) Turning others away from full enlightenment (13) Turning others away from their pratimoksha vows (we had even the mordering Boddhisattva this days...) (16) Accepting what has been stolen from the Triple Gem (17) Establishing unfair policies

And such is the most dangers, thinking on Buddhamind... (8) Committing any of the five heinous crimes

Very important and nobody cares! (11) Teaching voidness to those whose minds are untrained

These are your vows. The Buddha did not give such to laypeople, since they are not capable.

And who would you even know if not here or there a Bodhisattva is talking to you?

Vajarana is known to handle and sell the most of the Dhamma and make Business, live in dependency of a certain group. Not possible.

So we are right on the topic, and it is in regard of Buddha-Dhamma or is it a Tibetan forum?

Its absolutely good and proper if you see that as a heavy rebuke.


[–]Samana_Johann

...To continue maintaining and expanding our website requires 100,000 euros (US $150,000) a year. Berzin Archiv.

They do not really know what they vow, and think that a person, who have even not learned to great can be a Bodhisattva, you are cheating people and life from it, that's it. Classical Pyramid-business.




[–]Fire_Elemental vajrayana

/u/Samana_Johann, I did not post to open a conversation with you, I posted, as a moderator, to tell you the minimum standard of conduct to post on this board. If you continue to sow discord you will be banned. This is your last warning.



So such is neither Mahayana nor Bodhisattva Path, that is simply foolishness.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2015, 06:42:36 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Aramika   *

Ein oder mehrer Beiträge wurden hier im Thema abgeschnitten und damit in neues Thema "Karma Yeshe Rabgye, helps you to kill your mammy and daddy! 100% Compassionated! " eröffnet. Bitte scheuen Sie nicht davor zurück, etwaigen Rat oder Kritik dazu mitzuteilen.  Viel Freude und Inspiration auch im neuen Thema. Anumodana!

One or more posts have been cut out of this topic here. A new topic, based on it, has been created as "Karma Yeshe Rabgye, helps you to kill your mammy and daddy! 100% Compassionated! " . Please do not hesitate to claim or give supporting hints.  Much joy and inspiration also in the new Topic. Anumodana!
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Johann

August 13, 2018, 05:13:25 AM
Händler mögen es nicht sich für passendes Mudita hinzugeben, und würden nur in Lob über deren Handelsware sprechen. Warum Leute Lobenswertes nicht loben: apacayana eine er 12 Personen: "...ein Geschäftsmann, sich seiner Schuld zum Arbeiten für seinen Vorteil verschrieben."
 

Johann

August 11, 2018, 12:06:41 AM
Erfreuenden und klärenden Neumond-Uposatha, den Ehrw. Herren, Anhängern und Interessierten.
 

Johann

August 10, 2018, 08:31:57 PM
Sokh chomreoun Nyom. Möge sich Sukha zur Vollständigkeit mehren.
 

Moritz

August 10, 2018, 06:20:44 PM
Ich muss wieder an die Arbeit. Einen angenehmen Abend, Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

August 10, 2018, 05:25:27 PM
Nyom Moritz.

Nyom Mohan.
 

Moritz

August 10, 2018, 05:18:04 PM
Guten Abend, Bhante _/\_
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

August 05, 2018, 12:58:01 PM
Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann,

ich habe der Gruppe „ Anussavika“ beigetreten.

Dhamma Grüβe an Sie aus Sri Lanka!
 

Johann

July 31, 2018, 04:38:15 PM
Den Weg kennend, im Vertrauen jenen folgen ihn gehend, gegangen, sich dann ausschließlich um die Enihsltung des Weges kümmer, gelangt man nach oben und hinaus. So, in dieser Weise, ist "der Weh ist das Ziel zu verstehen.
 

Johann

July 31, 2018, 04:33:35 PM
Mögen alles stets vorrangig auf die Qualitäten von Handlungen und Hingaben, die Ursachen für Früchte achten und nicht wie dumme gewöhnliche Leute, Zeile fixieren und danach gfreifen, die Ursachen damit fehlen, nie zu Früchten kommend, falscher Mitteln für Wirkung bedient.

Mudita
 

Johann

July 28, 2018, 07:38:00 AM
on how the blessed hobby, the liberating anime, the sublime gotchi decays for one and at a certain point for all: Dhamma-Gotchi and only fake last for some times lasting till also the mythos decays.
 

Johann

July 26, 2018, 01:50:45 PM
Morgen, Vollmond vor dem Vassa seiend, mag jener, der nicht zu sehr verstrickt in Fehlinvestitionen, die Gelegenheit für Lösung von Verstrickungen zu nützen vermögen.
 

Johann

July 26, 2018, 01:50:20 PM
Morgen, Vollmond vor dem Vassa seiend, mag jener, der nicht zu sehr verstrickt in Fehlinvestitionen, die Gelegenheit für Lösung von Verstrickungen zu nützen vermögen.

Roman

July 22, 2018, 08:01:16 PM
Danke für die Infos
und eine friedliche Nacht
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 06:27:44 PM
Atma, zieht sich nun zurück, wieder spät geworden, Nyom. Ruhe Freude und Geduld beim ungestörten Erkunden und Gelegenheiten, Gegeben-heiten, nutzen.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:13:38 PM
Atma wird das Gespräch nun versuchen in Passendes Thema im Forum zu kopieren.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:12:06 PM
In Sorge Unmut ob der Situation, gänzlich anders Vorgestellt,  zu mehren, hatte Johann nicht nach Marcel gefragt. Doch hätte er, würde er er erwähnen, wenn da dringliches und triftige Sorge um Marcel wäre. Gute Übung und Lehre, alles in allem, für viele, wenn danach ausgerichtet. Also einfach
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:06:12 PM
Bhante Indannano, Johann angerufen habend, kurz, vor Tagen, unterrichtet geworden das Johann am Weg in die Hauptstadt sein, hatte sich sehr zurückhaltend und kurz gehalten. Wohl nicht mit den weltlichen Hindernissen all zu Erfreut und noch ungelößt.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:03:21 PM
Im Verwenden des Forums, überall, keine Sorge irgendwo was Falsch zu machen, ist es Stressfreier und Langlebiger, auch für andere, als Geschenk, Nyom Roman. Woimmer.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:00:55 PM
Nyom kam Nyom als "füherer Elternteil/Verwandter" betrachten. Hie etwas Technischer: ញោម "Nyom", ñoma - Ursprung bzw. Bedeutung
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:56:10 PM
Wenn Sie sich freimachen können, besuchen Sie ihn, und machen Sie Entdeckungsreise in unbekannter Welt, während ihm vielleich Weltliches abnehmen könnend.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:53:55 PM
mit Freude tun oder Geben mag, wo immer, ist vorallem für Roman glücksverheißend, neben Moraluscher Stange zum Glück für ihn haltend.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:51:42 PM
Mag er sicher Abstand von Unsicherm Gewinnen. Was immer Roman sich inspiriet fühlt, geschicktes, niemanden Verletzendes zu geben, zu tun, gar vielleicht mehr an jemand erhabener als "nur" eigener Bruder denkend,

Roman

July 22, 2018, 02:49:04 PM
  Und was bedeutet Nyom...Ich habe versucht zu übersetzen.  Jedoch weiß ich nicht ob der Bezug richtig ist
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:48:39 PM
Johann hat ihn schon länger nicht persönlich getroffen, ob in Buchstaben, am Ohr oder mit mehr Sinnen. Gestern war er wohl online hier. Denke er ist sehr vertieft in der Praxis und hat eigentlich wenig Interesse sich um Äußerses zu kümmern.

Roman

July 22, 2018, 02:46:46 PM
Beim lesen von den Beiträgen fällt es mir noch bißchen schwer alles zu verstehen...Ich frage mich gerade wer Atma ist..Und moritz bist du für die Internetseite zuständig?  

Roman

July 22, 2018, 02:43:49 PM
Hallo,

Ich lese viel hier und wollte mich mal erkundigen wie es mit Marcel so steht..Hatte letzte Woche mit ihm gesprochen und es geht ihm gut! Hatte Johann geschrieben wie ich helfen kann..
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:41:15 PM
Nyom Roman
 

Sophorn

July 20, 2018, 05:09:54 AM
Sadhu. Möge es ein verdienstvolller Tag sein!
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

July 20, 2018, 03:06:04 AM
Allen einen verdienstvollen Silatag, der letzte vor dem Antritt der Regenrückzugszeit.
 

Sophorn

July 14, 2018, 11:10:02 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
Karuna tvay bongkum Bhante
 :-*  :-* :-*
 

Sophorn

July 14, 2018, 11:09:03 AM
 :)  ;) Moritz, gut einfühlbar. In Österreich lebte der Körper nach der asiatischen Uhr, hier in N nach der österreichischen Uhr.
Nicht zeitgerecht der Natur entsprechend zu leben, überfordert den Körper.  
Beste Grüße aus Kathmandu!  :-*
 

Johann

July 14, 2018, 11:06:18 AM
Sadhu, und vergesse Nyom sich nicht.
 

Moritz

July 14, 2018, 11:00:04 AM
Es wird spät in Hawaii. Einen friedlichen Tag allen. _/\_
 

Moritz

July 14, 2018, 07:40:41 AM
Ja, gestern Vormittag bis Nachmittag. Ich lebe wohl gerade ungefähr im Einklang mit der Zeitzone von Hawaii.
 

Johann

July 14, 2018, 07:36:45 AM
Nyom Moritz. Hat er auch ausreichend Schlaf genommen?
 

Moritz

July 14, 2018, 07:30:08 AM
Good day, Bhante _/\_
 

Moritz

July 13, 2018, 05:58:06 PM
Vandami, Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

July 13, 2018, 03:20:13 PM
Nyom Roman
 

Moritz

July 13, 2018, 03:07:40 AM
Ach ja, hab nun geändert. Vielleicht klappt's nun beim nächsten probieren @Roman
_/\_
 

Johann

July 13, 2018, 02:21:56 AM
Vielleicht gut wenn Meister Moritz Nyom Roman die 5 Mühsam-Beitagszahl hineinzaubert, da dann spamschutz wegfällt und er zu den unöffentlichen Foren Zugang hat.
 

Moritz

July 12, 2018, 09:13:06 PM
Hier eine kurze Bild-Erklärung zum Beantworten von Themen und Beiträgen.
Wenn noch Probleme, gern weiter hier nachfragen. _/\_
 

Moritz

July 12, 2018, 09:11:14 PM
Gut zu hören, dass der Bruder sich mitfreut. Sadhu! :)
Möge alles problemlos im Eintritt in das neue Leben für ihn laufen. _/\_

Roman

July 12, 2018, 09:01:41 PM
Danke moritz

Ich werde es ausprobieren!!

Aufjedenfall war es eine sehr erfreuliche Nachricht! ! Ich bin sehr stolz auf marcel!! Mein herz geht auf!! Wunderschön!
 

Moritz

July 12, 2018, 08:58:37 PM
(Also auch auf der neuen Seite, wo dann das Text-Eingabefeld ist: Das Text-Eingabefeld ist nicht gleich im Fokus, sondern man muss erst ein gutes Stück nach unten scrollen, um es zu finden.)
Nicht sicher gerade, wie es auf Smartphone aussieht, ob da viel anders ist.
 

Moritz

July 12, 2018, 08:56:57 PM
Wenn man ganz unten ans Ende der letzten Nachricht scrollt, sollte da ein Button "Reply" oder "Antworten" sein. (Je nach eingestellter Sprache vielleicht.) Da drauf klicken. Dann sollte auf der nächsten Seite eine Texteingabe-Ansicht erscheinen. Zu der muss man aber erst ein Stück runter scrollen.
 

Moritz

July 12, 2018, 08:53:20 PM
Oh, die Nachricht wurde abgeschnitten. Hier in der Shoutbox sind nur ein paar hundert Zeichen möglich.
Ja, das Forum ist etwas unübersichtlich am Anfang. Moment, ich versuche mal, zu erklären. :)

Roman

July 12, 2018, 08:41:24 PM
Hallo

Ich lese sehr viel hier!! Es ist sehr interessant!! Die Menge an Infos! ! Sehr toll!!..Ich habe versucht auf den Beitrag zu reagieren der die Entwicklung von nyom marcel beschreibt..glaube von Johann verfasst. Jedoch weiß ich noch nicht genau wie dieses funktioniert.
Ich habe die Nachric
 

Moritz

July 12, 2018, 08:34:57 PM
Hallo Roman, Binocular/Visitor _/\_
 

Johann

July 12, 2018, 02:08:25 PM
Nyom Roman
 

Johann

July 11, 2018, 10:08:30 PM
Ohh... es ist woeder mal 3 geworden. Atma erlaubt sich, sich zurückzuziehen und sich etwas um die Malaria zu kümmern.

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