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Author Topic: Why and how Mohayanas and "Buddhist" justify killing and stealing.  (Read 1867 times)

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Offline Johann

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Atma recently came to get known the "reddit-Buddhism " social network for hungry ghosts and there in this, like in most Buddhist forum the Moha-yana dominates. On how those "heroes" justify their ways of killing and stealing might be more clear if one reads their Suttas, lies and reply's on topics like euthanasia and dealing with Dhamma. This wired sect, calling themselves "Buddhists" is even more dangerous as a radical Taliban organization.

Quote from: deathnate4 on ratdit

    The Skill In Means ([An]Upayakausalya) Sutra, as translated by Mark Tatz, goes like this:

    Then the Lord [Buddha] again addressed the Bodhisattva Jnanottara: “Son of the family: Once a upon a time, long before the Thus-come-one, the Worthy, the fully perfected Buddha Dipamkara, there were five hundred merchants who set sail on the high seas in search of wealth. Among the company was a doer of dark deeds, a doer of evil deeds, a robber well-trained in the art of weaponry, who had come on board that very ship to attack them. He thought, “I will kill all these merchants when they have achieved their aims and done what they set out to do, take all possessions and go to Jambu Continent.”

    “Son of the family: then the merchants achieved their aims and set about to depart. No sooner had they done so, than that deceitful person thought: “Now I will kill all these merchants, take all their possessions and go to Jambu Continent. The time has come.” At the same time, among the company on board was a captain named Great Compassionate. While Captain Great Compassionate slept on one occasion, the deities who dwelt in that ocean showed him in a dream: ‘’’Among this ship’s company is a person named so and so, of such and such sort of physique, of such and such, garb, complex, and shape—a robber mischievous, a thief of others’ property. He is thinking,” I will kill all these merchants, take all their possessions and go to Jambu Continent.”

    To kill these merchants would create formidable evil karma for that person. Why so? These five hundred merchants are all progressing toward supreme, right and full awakening; they are each irreversible from awakening. If he should kill these Bodhisattvas, the fault—the obstacle caused by the deed—would cause him to burn in the great hells for as long as it take each one of these Bodhisattva to achieve supreme, right and full awakening, consecutively. Therefore, Captain, think of some skill in means to prevent this person from killing the five hundred merchants and going to the great hells because of the deed.’

    “Son of the family: Then the captain Great Compassionate awoke. He considered what means there might be to prevent that person from killing the five hundred merchants and going to the great hells. Seven days passed with a wind averse to sailing to Jambu Continent. Without wind during those seven days he plunged deep into thought, not speaking to anyone. “He thought, ‘There is no means to prevent this from slaying the merchants and going to the great hells but to kill him.’ “And he thought, ‘if I were to report this to the merchants, they would kill and slay him with angry thoughts and all go to the great hells themselves.’ “And he thought, ‘if I were to kill this person, I would likewise burn in the great hells for one hundred-thousand eons because of it. Yet I can bear to experience the pain of the great hells, that this person not slay these five hundred merchants and develop so much evil karma. I will kill this person myself.

    “Son of the family: Accordingly, the captain Great Compassionate protected those five hundred merchants and protected that person from going to the great hells, by deliberately stabbing and slaying that person who was a robber with a spear, with great compassion and skill in means. And all among the company achieved their aims and each went to his own city. Son of the family. At that time, in that life I was none other than the Captain Great Compassionate. Have no second thought or doubt on this point. The five hundred merchants on board the five hundred Bodhisattvas who are to niranize to supreme, right and full awakening in this auspicious eon.

    “Son of the family: For me, Samsara was curtailed for one hundred-thousand eons because of that skill in means and great compassion. And the robber died to be reborn in a world of paradise. The five hundred merchants on board are the hundred future Buddhas of the auspicious eon. Son of the family, what do you think of this? Can curtailing birth and death for one hundred-thousand eons with that skill in means and that great compassion with gnosis of skill in means be regarded as the Bodhisattva’s obstacle caused by past deeds? Do not view it in that way. That should be regarded as his very skill in means.”



Of course Atma got soon killed following the compassionate words of the top heroes and Bodhisattvas:

Quote from: Bodhisattva Zrxn
May the Light of Mahayana shine upon you and may you one day awaken bodhicitta and see that you are walking the Bodhisattva path. (Bodhisattva Zrxn)
 

Quote from: ??
Nagarjuna:

    O sublime, precious bodhicitta,

    May it arise in those in whom it has not arisen.

    May it never decline where it has arisen,

    But go on increasing further and further



On stealing from Buddha, Dhamma Sangha:

[–]clickstation

http://accesstoinsight.org :)

(Or to be more precise http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/index.html)


[–]Samana_Johann

Such is give, do never buy Dhamma or even steal, debbxi! Only in that way you could benefit. By intention, words and deeds.




[–]clickstationchan

To be fair, translators and publishers gotta eat, too.


[–]Samana_Johann

Foolish thought, to be straight forward. Not even the requirement to teach and actually (let me bet) you have never given food to any monk, have you ever given something?

Dhamma is not able to be carried by laypeople. That is impossible, and actually there is more destroyed as gained.

Maybe you like to start to learn about economy of gifts

A monk (a person) is not worthy of what he gives you back, such would stay in the world. That is because you have been introduced by dealers into the teachings, and as they deal (making a livelihood on Dhamma selling, monks as lay people), how could they teach different and just like the Buddha taught. If you are more a Tibetan, study the Bodhisattva vows and what it would cause to earn money in the name of the Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha.


   
One should not make an effort everywhere, should not be another's hireling, should not live dependent on another, should not go about as a trader in the Dhamma. Paṭisalla Sutta


There is no way to gain any from a buy of a Dhamma book, you might have entertainment, but you even increase "I can" and I am independent and wrong view. If we talk about the buyer.

Somebody who sells the Dhamma, is really a poor person. You can be sure, he will never have a happy life at the end. Its not possible to be the great giver, if living on the first floor. That is why Sila has much more value in this case. No need to give if not possible.

Atma gives it 10 year, if there is no change, and the Sangha is gone from this world. Never see it again for the most.

You will not easily get such straight forward words, so think about it. Its not for a bad.


[–]clickstation

Honestly, and no offense, I'm having a tough time understanding what you mean.

But one thing is clear: I'm not disparaging monks in any way. I'm just saying that "buying Dhamma" isn't always a bad thing, especially if it's simply a translation, where the translator's "Dhamma level" doesn't factor too much into it.

And I certainly can't agree that one can't benefit from the Dhamma if it's "bought."


[–]debbxi

...yea... and I wouldn't know how else to receive it at this point.


[–]Samana_Johann

Don't worry, Atma did not feel you offend consciously (but unknowingly, which is actually more dangerous, its not so that one knows without having be taught aside of some seldom Paccecabuddhas this days in this world, and they are not able to teach.) all, Mr/Mrs Clickstation.

    I'm just saying that "buying Dhamma" isn't always a bad thing, especially if it's simply a translation, where the translator's "Dhamma level" doesn't factor too much into it.

Its the fist time in 2500 years that Dhamma is sold. It is always a bad thing, not knowing is also akusala. That why you are taught, to make not the same mistake. Live your live and if you are inspired to give, give. If not not, not. No need to sell something what is not ones own. An Arahat would have the right, but he do it neither. That is Osho-Dhamma, what you costumers get served. Buddhas economy is beyond the world and there is no way to really misuse it without earning the fruits, sooner or later.

So when ever you enter, think about what you can give, not vici versa.


[–]clickstation

Well, I understand you better now, and you hold a good point.

Still, in my opinion, that's the ideal.. but not the bare minimum :)

Let's agree to disagree.


[–]clickstation

Well, I understand you better now, and you hold a good point.

Still, in my opinion, that's the ideal.. but not the bare minimum :)

Let's agree to disagree.



[–]Samana_Johann

No problem, Dhukka is "just", no need to go to a judge to come to the Buddha at least if came in contact one time.


[–]Fire_Elemental - vajrayana
   
If you are more a Tibetan, study the Bodhisattva vows and what it would cause to earn money in the name of the Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha.


Please don't disparage other Buddhist vehicles, schools, teachers, etc. here are /r/Buddhism.


[–]Samana_Johann

Who tells? Avannaraha Sutta: Dispraise . So is it yours? Better train your Bodhisattva Vows.

If that is not right, read and learn. First the shared Sutta. And then Root Bodhisattva Vows - A root downfall means a loss of the entire set of bodhisattva vows.

(2) Not sharing Dharma teachings or wealth# (3) Not listening to others' apologies or striking others (5) Taking offerings intended for the Triple Gem (6) Forsaking the holy Dharma (12) Turning others away from full enlightenment (13) Turning others away from their pratimoksha vows (we had even the mordering Boddhisattva this days...) (16) Accepting what has been stolen from the Triple Gem (17) Establishing unfair policies

And such is the most dangers, thinking on Buddhamind... (8) Committing any of the five heinous crimes

Very important and nobody cares! (11) Teaching voidness to those whose minds are untrained

These are your vows. The Buddha did not give such to laypeople, since they are not capable.

And who would you even know if not here or there a Bodhisattva is talking to you?

Vajarana is known to handle and sell the most of the Dhamma and make Business, live in dependency of a certain group. Not possible.

So we are right on the topic, and it is in regard of Buddha-Dhamma or is it a Tibetan forum?

Its absolutely good and proper if you see that as a heavy rebuke.


[–]Samana_Johann

...To continue maintaining and expanding our website requires 100,000 euros (US $150,000) a year. Berzin Archiv.

They do not really know what they vow, and think that a person, who have even not learned to great can be a Bodhisattva, you are cheating people and life from it, that's it. Classical Pyramid-business.




[–]Fire_Elemental vajrayana

/u/Samana_Johann, I did not post to open a conversation with you, I posted, as a moderator, to tell you the minimum standard of conduct to post on this board. If you continue to sow discord you will be banned. This is your last warning.



So such is neither Mahayana nor Bodhisattva Path, that is simply foolishness.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2015, 06:42:36 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Aramika   *

Ein oder mehrer Beiträge wurden hier im Thema abgeschnitten und damit in neues Thema "Karma Yeshe Rabgye, helps you to kill your mammy and daddy! 100% Compassionated! " eröffnet. Bitte scheuen Sie nicht davor zurück, etwaigen Rat oder Kritik dazu mitzuteilen.  Viel Freude und Inspiration auch im neuen Thema. Anumodana!

One or more posts have been cut out of this topic here. A new topic, based on it, has been created as "Karma Yeshe Rabgye, helps you to kill your mammy and daddy! 100% Compassionated! " . Please do not hesitate to claim or give supporting hints.  Much joy and inspiration also in the new Topic. Anumodana!
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Johann

October 17, 2018, 06:01:23 PM
May all spend meritorious/good and higher last hours of this Sila-day.

Sokh chomreoun (may well being be developed [by everyone])
 

Johann

October 16, 2018, 03:15:10 PM
Nyom Roman.
 

Johann

October 12, 2018, 04:13:16 PM
Good to see Nyom Norum.
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 10:38:10 AM
Maybe of support for lasting satifaction: Seeds of Becoming .
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 06:57:38 AM
When ever love arises, dislike will be it's end. Who ever seeks out for friends, will get his enemy. Why? Because not willing to leave home. May wanderer gus find the way to never return. Mudita

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:58 AM
Vandami.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:22 AM
Nevertheless my courage of active participation  has been fallen down. Anyway I hope to come time to time.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam khamata me bhante.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:37:11 AM
Okasa bhante,

I didn't accepted Dymitros invitation to start a Theravada forum, because I thought this forum is pure Theravada. Now I regret about it, yet think this forum is comparatively good.  I learnt many valuable things from you and grateful to you. Nevertheless my courage of active partici
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 02:20:29 AM
What ever one searches for, that he/she will find. Less are those seeing the nature of combined thing, leaving home and go beyond Maras domain.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:45:18 PM
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:39:12 PM
When one is born in outer regions ... your island has drifted away.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:30:00 PM
macchariya, a boarder hard to cross to the middle way, abounding home, sakayaditthi, doubt and rituals.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:33:02 PM
However much one say, West is West, East is East.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 02:28:29 PM
Where ever there is east, there is west. And vici versa. Where ever there is nama, there is rupa. Where ever one seeks for a home, there he will suffer.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:03:31 PM
West is West

gus

October 06, 2018, 09:56:42 AM
belief of kamma, gratitude, independence, honesty, devotion : These are hard to find in people
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:49:14 AM
Again, a latin proverb mit be useful: Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi , patisota is always harmful if not just one own defilements or having a proper stand to help. Sota is the virtue required to resist in borderlands.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:41:52 AM
If in a borderland it's better to simply serve and support the Sangha. It's not smart to seek for other householders to nurish on traced imperfections of something required to uphold, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 04:54:48 AM
Okasa, happy to hear such things reagarding kamma. Many monks I have met don't directly speak about kamma because they have been tired after practicing some years and now bit relaxed.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:17:26 AM
Such can be total kusala and total akusala or simply defuse. Set your mind right and be mindful, that nothing will be of harm for yourself and others.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:15:27 AM
There is nothing not permitted. Merits or demerits are the actors responsibility. One is full in charge of ones action in this Domain here, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 03:50:00 AM
Bhante, is it permitted to ask questions or post things on behalf of other/future people ?

gus

October 05, 2018, 09:19:32 AM
We have been advised like this:
"No matter however much monks reject you,
Never leave the place."
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 09:09:37 AM
It's good when wanderer gus takes a rest, turns to a lonly place, enjoys the merits done and find a good place for his mind and fixes possible open wholes when clear where he likes to go some hours later.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 08:59:03 AM
Wanderer Gus knows how foolish this statement is. That is not the way to get out of a hole.

gus

October 05, 2018, 08:42:59 AM
okasa,
falling down from a status is suffering.
So, if I could stay in the hell-being status from the beginning, then no suffering.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:33:20 AM
From a state of a young Bhikkhu equal tradition...to householder... ...asura (now) on the border to animal, peta, hell-state. It can go quick if not having firm nissaya.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:29:27 AM
Aniccam vatta samsara...

gus

October 05, 2018, 06:56:28 AM
Evolution:
Bhante subhuti =>
Upasaka gus =>
Deva gus =>
Asura gus.

In the future:
Asura gus =>
Peta gus =>
Animal gus =>
Hell-being gus ???

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:51:42 AM
Okasa, I think bhante thinks me as a patriot because of some content of my posts. But it is not.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 05:41:33 AM
What ever one likes to, not touched like the moon, does not mean to praise what is blameworthy and vici-versa and to have metta not to let people run into hell if ways can be pointed out. Yet other choices at least are their. Be quick, your island drifts away!

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:34:15 AM
Okasa,
As long as I don't do exactly what you say, I think I'll not be able to make you happy or satisfied.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 02:12:55 PM
If thinking that this is for sure, if delighting in believing that connected things are a refuge and give space to rest: one may do so. Ones own choice. When ever one stops to nurish inwardly, ouwardly path and fruits die. Good as well as bad.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:28:51 AM
If bhante didn't let the weak person to live in avatar/deva mode, then he will lose both openness and connection. Up to now I have secured at least the connection.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:22:24 AM
Yet I appreciate and pay vandana for your care and advice on openness.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:19:56 AM
Please forgive me  bhante if I have made you tired. I don't like to accumulate akusala by making a monk tired in expecting a naughty chicken to be a good duck.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam Khamtu me bhante!
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:07:06 AM
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:01:00 AM
Differnt asked "why is Bhante not happy, dwell not in outwardly seeming being not touched?" Because it would not only confirm and show sign of aggreement of unwise acts, but also very incompassionate and cruel. Also place for suspecting corrupt ways and invite others to follow the comfortable dwelli
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:54:12 AM
No one is able to make my person angry, which does not mean that he would not appear angry so to possible prevent from doing what is not conductive for liberation, even lead in lower states. Nothing to worry, but also no invitation to test it foolish since it could hurt one self and others.

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:46:39 AM
Okasa bhante, Isn't there at least single way to stay anonymous without making you angry?
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:33:12 AM
corr: "it's, the domain of the Noble Ones, is nobody's personal domain" there are no wards around fields for merits and no tickets to pay
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:29:31 AM
What ever Deva gus feels inspired. It's oneones personal domain and all giving is good in the distance of the brigh cool moon. One should not fear, should not be shy to do what is good and praised by the wise but be quick!

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:21:39 AM
Bhante, is that mean you don't like me to talk about higher subjects and like to talk about basics only?
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:02:12 AM
It would be more than good if teaching others a lot on the topic vandami (paying respect) and khamatu (asking for forgiviness) since unknown and not practiced here around this field of merits in compassion to former relatives, Deva gus.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:55:38 AM
...total no problem to dwell and lay down in the cool shadow to heal at all and no need to ask for pardon when intended for progressing and to get fit for the battles so hard to win.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:52:39 AM
But they would not feed them in ways which might look as nurishing relations for wordly sake directly, for people not understanding would think "look, he is herding, carry for his cattle, he wasts the gift of the land, the heritage of the Gems for his becoming and own gain. Understood? Total no prob
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:45:29 AM
Never would people of integrity send away pets, petas or sick, for they are not able to change for now but possible can gain of what they need to change.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:42:28 AM
If, just to think about, one lives deliberatly with sign showing a rejection of firm trust in kamma, one lives in nurishing the danger of falling into grave wrong views and give ways that others follow what is improper to do. Just to reflect. How ever wishing to do.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:36:03 AM
What ever one does, holds as refuge or abounds, either good or bad refuge, one does for one self. Ones own choices, ones own fruits, ones own limitations, hindrences.

gus

October 04, 2018, 09:28:15 AM
Khamatu me bhante!
My previous  post was this.
"Please forgive me and give birth to kindness ao as to let me live here anonymous "

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