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Author Topic: How to address wrong view? - Wie entgegnet man Falscher Ansicht?  (Read 1694 times)

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Offline Johann

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[Deutsche Version in überarbeiteter From hier:
Wie entgegnet man Falscher Ansicht? ]

Quote from: Upasaka Ryan on SE-Buddhism
How to address wrong view?

Did the Buddha give any teachings on how to deal with individuals spreading wrong view?

If someone is expounding their beliefs in a public forum under the guise of the Buddha's teaching, given the possibility that these views may misinform and lead others astray, does one have any responsibility to try to rectify this, and if so, what would be the proper way of addressing such an issue?

Sadhu!

A very fundamental an important question. Since it is a very actual question in many Dhamma-Communities, Atma likes to try to give it a proper frame and broadness.



Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa.
Homage to the Blessed One, the Worthy One, the Rightly Self-awakened One.

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa.
Homage to the Blessed One, the Worthy One, the Rightly Self-awakened One.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa.
Homage to the Blessed One, the Worthy One, the Rightly Self-awakened One.



The effect of wrong view

Practicing the Dhamma is all about gaining and protect ones right view and wrong view (which is at least avijja, not knowing) the root cause of suffering.

To be able to proper in the Dhamma, there are less outwardly conditions which may hinder such, like:
  • paccantaro – living on a place where Buddha Sasana does not flourish
  • micchaditthi – born/associate among people with wrong view
So like told by the Buddha, associating with people of right view and abstaining from associating with people of wrong view, is the "whole spiritual" life.

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

If wanderers who are members of other sects should ask you, 'What, friend, are the prerequisites for the development of the wings to self-awakening?' you should answer, 'There is the case where a monk has admirable people as friends, companions, & colleagues. This is the first prerequisite for the development of the wings to self-awakening.
Quote from: AN 9.1, in Kalyanamitta

So there is actually nothing more serious as to hold wrong views and the fact that one is not so strong as he might believe, since - if one is not firm in Dhamma - one tends to adopt views and behavior which are usual in certain environments, one should do everything possible to avoid it. Such penetrates so subtle that one even does not realize it. That matter goes so far that the Buddha suggested to wanderer alone if no association with people of right view can be found.

Now, for one of wrong view, I tell you, there is one of two destinations: either hell or the animal womb. - DN 12


People act wrong out of wrong view. If there is no wrong view, there is no such as acting wrong. The same holds for the path and the practice. If there is no right view, what ever path factor is just wrong action, wrong speech... wrong samadhi and wrong release at least. (AN 10.103 )

What is wrong view

Wrong view starts out at the very basics of nature:

'O, that what belongs to others would be mine!' He bears ill will, corrupt in the resolves of his heart: 'May these beings be killed or cut apart or crushed or destroyed, or may they not exist at all!' He has wrong view, is warped in the way he sees things: 'There is nothing given, nothing offered, nothing sacrificed. There is no fruit or result of good or bad actions. There is no this world, no next world, no mother, no father, no spontaneously reborn beings; no brahmans or contemplatives who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' - AN 10.176

  • There is nothing given, nothing offered, nothing sacrificed
    This is a certain believe that things either come by accident or one is the creator of all by one self. Or one has such as inherent right, one is inherent worthy of things and ones live and well-being does not effect others, is not on the cost of other beings "misfortune". A person of wrong view therefore is known as a person without gratitude and does not feel obligated. Typical modern strong wrong views are thinking in right, believing in rights. This is a very serious and broad wrong view. Even most monks have falling into this wrong view today and do not dear to even teach rights rather that right view. A person who demands "I have this and that right", holds on rights, makes rights his means of gain and sustain, is a person of strong wrong view.

  • There is no fruit or result of good or bad actions.
    Such a person denies fruit of his actions and denies that results has there reasons. A person thinking in that way does not fear to do wrong and even certain "benefits" or "punishments" would not effect his behavior. People who try to imitate such an non-duality like "there is no doer, no receiver of actions" are very common in the sphere of people calling themselves follower of the Buddha.

  • There is no this world, no next world
    This believe assumes that once existence has no previous causes as well that one does not take once causes into future existences. That counts for lifetimes as well as particular worlds and existences. A very broad thinking is for example job is job, and private is private, since thinking that one living serial different lives is very common in our days and certain "privacy" tool give support to believe such.

  • There is no mother, no father
    One believes that things and he him self does not have ancestors, there are not those who have gone before. A person who does not see, honor, respect and does not feel obligated to those who actually prepared the way are called people of no integrity.

  •   There are no spontaneously reborn beings
    Such a person denies the existence of beings behind his perception and with it the possibility to gain such existences as well. One neither has respect of such beings (thinking on Devas and there virtue) nor would be feel scared of suddenly falling into an hell existence, since as it has not been seen by one self, how could such exist.

  •   There are no brahmans or contemplatives who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves
    Such a person denies that there a people who have gone a different way as he is able to see. That is also a very common and blatant wrong view in our days where people seek for refuge in: "All are equal", "Its human to be like that", "There are no such as perfect people".
Wrong view does therefore deny the Buddha as worthy righteous self-awakened and with it the possibility to gain liberation, deny the Dhamma, cause and effect, the depending co-arising and its possible use to gain liberation, and the Sangha, the community of those following the Buddhas path, which is also a very common blatant wrong view, thinking on all the various undertakings of developing Buddhism 2.0 or other secular adoptions.

Very common wrong views of certain communities are thoughts like certain wrong doings are justified for a good purpose. There are even certain sects who believe that there are such things like righteous killing, stealing, lying...

Should one react to wrong view?

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"Bhikkhus, endowed with three things, as lead and lain, is in hell. What three? One self with wrong view, incites others to develop wrong view and approves wrong view. Bhikkhus, endowed with three things, as lead and lain, is in heaven. What three? One self is right in view, incites others to rectify their view and approves right view."

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"Bhikkhus, one possessing four qualities is deposited in hell as if brought there. What four? (1) Without investigating and scrutinizing, one speaks praise of one who deserves dispraise. (2) Without investigating and scrutinizing, one speaks dispraise of one who deserves praise. (3) Without investigating and scrutinizing, one believes a matter that merits suspicion. (4) Without investigating and scrutinizing, one is suspicious about a matter that merits belief. Possessing these four qualities one is deposited in hell as if brought there.

Being confronted with wrong views, should one react? Yes. Since assenting to wrong deeds is actually kamma. With of course, if one mentally agrees or disagrees has only personal impacts. Since silents and giving a appearance that could be wrong understood by others and others misinterpreting such would follow can cause great impact on a community in small and in large, one should show disagreement if possible, as a sign for others.
Especially if one lives in and from a community, its actually an obligation. Thinking on an extreme: A King or priest watching unrighteousness would not give any statement or react on it. People would take it as acceptance and follow it.

There is a sphere where one has no more obligation to show and thereby help others, that is when one has left society and does no more deal with it. So someone having gone forth has actually no obligation to show such in a community he is no more member, does not live with and from it. BUT when we think on the community of monks, within the community (which is actually the only place where the Buddha gave clear advises how to deal with people of wrong view) there one has certain duties to "fight" such appearances. Of course such duties are not to be done if one would need to scarify his own welfare. So such as martyr-hood does not find place in Buddhas teachings. Its therefore normal that is the side of wrong view is obviously stronger, that those holding right view would not take on a struggle but withdraw.

Many rules of the Vinaya deal with the problem of wrong view in an individual or with the danger of wrong view poisoning the community. So its certain not a light offense and actions can or even should grow to strong "punishments" (they are not direct physical punishments, but can grow to indirect ones, like giving no share on material things, expel form monastery or particular community... for more see BMCII, Disciplinary Transactions ).

And there are many instances, aside of the common believe "just let it be" that the Buddha even urged actions to be taken, when we take for example the story to Dhammapada Verse 77:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

The Buddha hearing about these bhikkhus sent his two Chief Disciples Sariputta and Maha Moggallana, to stop them from committing further misconduct. To his two Chief Disciples the Buddha said, "Tell those bhikkhus not to destroy the faith and generosity of the lay disciples by misconduct and if anyone should disobey, drive him out of the monastery. Do not hesitate to do as I told you, for only fools dislike being given good advice and being forbidden to do evil."

Then the Buddha spoke in verse as follows:
Verse 77: The man of wisdom should admonish others; he should give advice and should prevent others from doing wrong; such a man is held dear by the good; he is disliked only by the bad.


The normal way before giving it to heavy disciplinary translations would be a three times rebuke by his fellows. If somebody does not change his ways, that such actions could take place according to the Vinaya. Strong cross examinations are usual ways to find out more about ones views. Of course all such undertakings are not done out of ill-will and certain factors which have to be in ones mind are necessary for such actions so that positive fruits can be expected.

Now the Buddha did not limit the merits of correcting views, like mentioned in Adhammavaggo of AN. On one occasion the devoted lay disciple Anathapindika rebuked a group of wanderer and after having done so, he asked the Buddha is his way and words have been right:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

..."Venerable sirs, whatever has been brought into being, is fabricated, willed, dependently originated, that is inconstant. Whatever is inconstant is stress. Whatever is stress is not me, is not what I am, is not my self. Having seen this well with right discernment as it actually is present, I also discern the higher escape from it as it actually is present."

When this had been said, the wanderers fell silent, abashed, sitting with their shoulders drooping, their heads down, brooding, at a loss for words. Anathapindika the householder, perceiving that the wanderers were silent, abashed... at a loss for words, got up & went to where the Blessed One was staying. On arrival, having bowed down to the Blessed One, he sat to one side. As he was seated there, he told the Blessed One the entirety of his conversation with the wanderers.

[The Blessed One said:] "Well done, householder. Well done. That is how you should periodically refute those foolish men with the Dhamma." Then he instructed, urged, roused, and encouraged Anathapindika the householder with a talk on Dhamma. When Anathapindika the householder had been instructed, urged, roused and encouraged by the Blessed One with a talk on Dhamma, he got up from his seat and, having bowed down to the Blessed One, left, keeping the Blessed One on his right side. Not long afterward, the Blessed One addressed the monks: "Monks, even a monk who has long penetrated the Dhamma in this Doctrine and Discipline would do well to refute the wanderers of other persuasions with the Dhamma periodically in just the way Anathapindika the householder has done."

Note that the case of wrong view, here in this sutta, would fit also to certain groups who teaches Suttas about the non-arising of phenomena (like the Prajñā-pāramitā  -  Perfection von Wisdom Sūtras). So one who has the possibility to objurgate such, and correct things, has actually full support form the Buddha and does it for the welfare of many. But once again, such things should be not done with anger of being personal touched:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"Therefore, monks, if others insult, abuse, taunt, bother, & harass you as well, you should feel no hatred, no resentment, no dissatisfaction of heart because of that. And if others honor, respect, revere, & venerate you as well, you should feel no joy, no gladness, no elation of heart because of that. And if others honor, respect, revere, & venerate you, you should think, 'They do us such service at this that has already been comprehended.'[1]
 1. According to the Commentary, "this" here refers to the five aggregates. As SN 22.23 points out, "comprehension" means the ending of passion, aversion, and delusion with regard to the object comprehended. In other words, the Buddha sees that the honor and respect he receives is aimed at the five aggregates; because he has no passion, aversion, or delusion with regard to those aggregates, he is not overjoyed by any honor paid to them.

So if certain hatred has been arise and ones defilement argue in this or that way, its good to remember the advice given in the "Aghata Sutta: Hatred ".

One should how ever protect his own right view:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

(44) Others will misapprehend according to their individual views, hold on to them tenaciously and not easily discard them;[2] we shall not misapprehend according to individual views nor hold on to them tenaciously, but shall discard them with ease — thus effacement can be done.

(44) The thought should be produced: 'Others will misapprehend according to their individual views, hold on to them tenaciously and not easily discard them; we shall not misapprehend according to individual views nor hold on to them tenaciously, but shall discard them with ease.'

(44) A person given to misapprehending according to his individual views, to holding on to them tenaciously and not discarding them easily, has non-misapprehension of individual views, non-holding on tenaciously and ease in discarding by which to avoid it.

(44) A person given to misapprehending according to his individual views, to holding on to them tenaciously and not discarding them easily, has non-misapprehension of individual views, non-holding on tenaciously and ease in discarding to lead him upward.

(44) A person given to misapprehending according to his individual views, to holding on to them tenaciously and not discarding them easily, has non-misapprehension of individual views, non-holding on tenaciously and ease in discarding by which to attain the quenching [of them].

[and the final advice for those having no more other duties:]

"What can be done for his disciples by a Master who seeks their welfare and has compassion and pity on them, that I have done for you, Cunda.[3] There are these roots of trees, there are empty places. Meditate, Cunda, do not delay, lest you later regret it. 'This is my message to you."
 2. Comy.: "A single wrong view (or wrong attitude), which is an obstacle for the supramundane qualities and hence does not lead to emancipation, is here described in three aspects:

    (a) Others will misapprehend according to their individual views (sanditthi-paramasi). Sub.Comy.: sa(m) = attano, one's own. Paramasi means setting aside the actual nature of a thing, one conceives it differently (sabhavam atikkamitva parato amasana).
    (b) Hold on tenaciously (adhanaggahi). Sub. Comy.: adhana = dalha, tight, firm.
    (c) Discards not easily. Comy.: "There are those who can discard their views on seeing a convincing reason. But others, even if shown many reasons, cannot give up their views; and of them it is said that they 'do not discard easily.' It refers to those who cling firmly to a subjective view that has occurred to them, believing 'only this is the truth.' Even if the Buddhas or others show them reasons, they do not relinquish their views. Such people, whatever idea they conceive, be it in accordance with Dhamma or not, will say: 'So it has been told by our teacher. So we have learned it'; and they will withdraw into themselves like a turtle drawing its limbs into its shell. They hold on to their views with the tight grip of a crocodile and do not let go."
 3. Comy.: "So far goes a compassionate teacher's task namely, the correct exposition of his teaching; that, namely, the practice (according to the teaching; patipatti), is the task of the disciples."

By which means should one approach wrong views of others?

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"Not to associate with the foolish, but to associate with the wise; and to honour those who are worthy of honour - this is the greatest blessing.

To reside in a suitable locality, to have done meritorious actions in the past and to set oneself in the right course- this is the greatest blessing.
Quote from: Mahā-Maṅgala-Sutta , explaining by Upasika Nina Van Gorkom

Gaining right view or being within a group of right view, is nothing of which comes by it self and one is wise to value it, protect it and give it reason to arise, seek for such a blessing, which is the first in line of the path to liberation.

So the minimum, after being clear and after having given it a prove that it actually wrong view or slandering the Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha, one should mentality not accept it. Even if such would cause one particular worldly benefits and gains, one should not approve it.

A certain way to express disprove outwardly is to stay silent or to leave a place or discussion. Such will have results if one associate with wise and attentive people (which is merely seldom). The next step if possible for one (that means that he does not need to fear, or does not fear the lose of certain things) would be a verbal expression, which could start with soft hints till heavy dispraise, according to the situations, his own possibilities and will to scarify of own possessions such as credit as well and mostly.

If one depends on the group or the person who has wrong view, one might seek for other ways, at least to leave the certain dependency.

Protect each other of wrong views is for instance one of the duty of a teacher in regard of his disciple as well as for a disciple in regard of his teacher:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

..."If dissatisfaction (with the celibate life) arises in the mentor, one should allay it or get someone else to allay it or one should give him a Dhamma talk. If anxiety (over his conduct with regard to the rules) arises in the mentor, one should dispel it or get someone else to dispel it or one should give him a Dhamma talk. If wrong view arises in the mentor, one should dissuade him or get someone else to dissuade him or one should give him a Dhamma talk....

"If dissatisfaction (with the celibate life) arises in the pupil, the mentor should allay it or get someone else to allay it or he should give him a Dhamma talk. If anxiety [C: over his conduct with regard to the rules] arises in the pupil, the mentor should dispel it or get someone else to dispel it or he should give him a Dhamma talk. If wrong view arises in the pupil, the mentor should dissuade him or get someone else to dissuade him or he should give him a Dhamma talk....

This way of showing compassion is also generally mentioned as one of the task of contemplatives and Brahmans:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"The ascetics and brahmans thus ministered to as the Zenith by a householder show their compassion towards him in six ways:

(i) they restrain him from evil,
(ii) they persuade him to do good,
(iii) they love him with a kind heart,
(iv) they make him hear what he has not heard,
(v) they clarify what he has already heard,
(vi) they point out the path to a heavenly state.

One should how ever, not act in bodily harmful ways. Certain harsh treatment ends with verbal declarations, which might be of course hard to bear and with it can cause of course violate reaction. How ever, such reaction must not have their origin in a compassionate rebuke, of one is touched by certain reactions of others. That is something one should bear in mind.

So the general assuming: one should put harmony or equanimity higher that righteousness is not right, even especially claimed by those who hold wrong views.

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

Then the wanderer Potaliya approached the Blessed One and exchanged greetings with him. When they had exchanged greetings and cordial talk, the wanderer Potaliya sat down to one side, and the Blessed One then said to him:

"Potaliya, there are these four kinds of persons found existing in the world. What four? (1) Here, some person speaks dispraise of someone who deserves dispraise, and the dispraise is accurate, truthful, and timely; but he does not speak praise of someone who deserves praise, though the praise would be accurate, truthful, and timely. (2) Some other person speaks praise of someone who deserves praise, and the praise is accurate, truthful, and timely; but he does not speak dispraise of someone who deserves dispraise, though the dispraise would be accurate, truthful, and timely. (3) Still another person does not speak dispraise of someone who deserves dispraise, though the dispraise would be accurate, truthful, and timely; and he does not speak praise of someone who deserves praise, though the praise would be accurate, truthful, and timely. (4) And still another person speaks dispraise of someone who deserves dispraise, and the dispraise is accurate, truthful, and timely; and he also speaks praise of someone who deserves praise, and the praise is accurate, truthful, and timely. These are the four kinds of persons found existing in the world. Now, Potaliya, which among these four kinds of persons seems to you the most excellent and sublime?"

"There are, Master Gotama, those four kinds of persons found existing in the world.[1] [101] Of those four, the one that seems to me the most excellent and sublime is the one who does not speak dispraise of someone who deserves dispraise, though the dispraise would be accurate, truthful, and timely; and who does not speak praise of someone who deserves praise, though the praise would be accurate, truthful, and timely. For what reason? Because what excels, Master Gotama, is equanimity."

"There are, Potaliya, those four kinds of persons found existing in the world. Of those four, the one that is the most excellent and sublime is the one who speaks dispraise of someone who deserves dispraise, and the dispraise is accurate, truthful, and timely; and who also speaks praise of someone who deserves praise, and the praise is accurate, truthful, and timely. For what reason? Because what excels, Potaliya, is knowledge of the proper time to speak in any particular case."[2]

"There are, Master Gotama, those four kinds of persons found existing in the world. Of those four, the one that seems to me the most excellent and sublime is the one who speaks dispraise of someone who deserves dispraise, and the dispraise is accurate, truthful, and timely; and who also speaks praise of someone who deserves praise, and the praise is accurate, truthful, and timely. For what reason? Because what excels, Master Gotama, is knowledge of the proper time to speak in any particular case.

"Excellent, Master Gotama! Excellent, Master Gotama! Master Gotama has made the Dhamma clear in many ways, as though he were turning upright what had been overthrown, revealing what was hidden, showing the way to one who was lost, or holding up a lamp in the darkness so those with good eyesight can see forms. I now go for refuge to Master Gotama, to the Dhamma, and to the Saṅgha of bhikkhus. Let Master Gotama consider me a lay follower who from today has gone for refuge for life."

One might claim, if not able to bear a rebuke or seeking for a reason to reject it "you do not know the right time", but right time does not mean that it must be the right time that the offender would understand it or that the offender could bear it. No, if such would be the case, the Buddha often had spoken at the wrong time since many of his rebukes did at least not benefit the offender himself. The right time means that it has benefit for many and that it is possible visible to see and understand. So the very common argument that a certain person does not change his mind means that it was wrong spoken is not correct.

Conclusion

Today, maybe also since a longer time, it's difficult to find a group of people with right view, even among monks and "schools" which are believed to still hold on right views, its very seldom. One needs to be clear about the fact, that this path is a path of letting go and its is not walkable with compromises. So one has to decide and bear the consequences, which are not so difficult to bear if one has right view of what is worthy to give up:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

Good companionship and others

71. "Bhikkhus, I do not know anything else that arouses non arisen merit and fades arisen demerit as good companionship. Good companions arouse non arisen merit and fades arisen demerit. This is the first.

72. "Bhikkhus, I do not know anything else that arouses non arisen demerit and fades arisen merit as evil companionship. Evil companions arouse non-arisen demerit and fades arisen merit. This is the second.

73. "Bhikkhus, I do not know anything else that arouses non arisen merit and fades arisen demerit as attending to merit and not attending to demerit. Attention to merit and non attention to demerit arouses non arisen merit and fades arisen demerit. This is the third.

74. "Bhikkhus, I do not know anything else that arouses non arisen demerit and fades arisen merit as attending to demerit and not attending to merit. Attention to demerit and non attention to merit arouses non-arisen demerit and fades arisen merit. This is the fourth.

75. "Bhikkhus, I do not know anything else that arouses non arisen enlightenment factors and develops and completes arisen enlightenment factors as wise thinking. Bhikkhus, someone thinking wisely, arouses non-arisen enlightenment factors and develops and completes arisen enlightenment factors. This is the fifth.

76. "Bhikkhus, the misery from the decrease of relations is nothing in comparison to the decrease of wisdom. Bhikkhus, of decreases the decrease in wisdom is miserable. This is the sixth.

77. "Bhikkhus, the increase of relations is nothing in comparison to increase of wisdom. Therefore you should train, we will increase in wisdom. This is the seventh.

78. "Bhikkhus, the misery from the decrease of wealth is nothing in comparison to the decrease of wisdom. Bhikkhus, of decreases the decrease in wisdom is miserable. This is the eighth.

79. "Bhikkhus, the increase of wealth is nothing in comparison to increase of wisdom. Therefore you should train, we will increase in wisdom. This is the ninth.

80. "Bhikkhus, the misery from the decrease of fame is nothing in comparison to the decrease of wisdom. Bhikkhus, of decreases the decrease in wisdom is miserable. This is the tenth."

Even thought that one thinks to walk the way of the Bodhisatta, the way is still the same, a way of letting go and giving up and doing honestly one will certainly arrive at the door of Dhamma, the door of going forth and leaving the interact entertained live.

At least Atma would like to suggest the somehow very personal story of Upasika Nina Van Gorkom, explaining the deep meaning of the Mangala Sutta:

...'Not to associate with the foolish, but to associate with the wise; and to honour those who are worthy of honour' are the first blessings. The last blessings, which are the blessings of the arahat, cannot be attained if one does not have the first blessings. If one does not know the right conditions for enlightenment, nibbāna cannot be realised. There are four conditions for enlightenment, the first of which is, association with the 'righteous person; the second, listening to Dhamma; the third, 'wise consideration' of Dhamma; and the fourth, practising Dhamma (Saṁyutta Nikāya, Mahā-vagga, Kindred Sayings on Stream-winner, Chapter I, par. 5). We cannot hear Dhamma, investigate the truth of it and practise it, unless we have met the right person who can point out to us the way to the Buddha's teachings.

Do we want to associate with foolish people or with wise people? Is it of no use to apply ourselves to mental development it we do not scrutinize ourselves first with regard to this question. We do not inclined to associate with people who have the same ideas and the same likes and dislikes as ourselves. Our inclinations are like elements; they arise by conditions. The same elements attract each other. We read in the 'Niddana-vagga' (Saṁyutta Nikāya, Kindred Saying on Elements, Chapter XIV, par 14):

"Through an element it is, monks, that beings flow together, meet together. Beings of low tastes flow together, meet together with them of low tastes. They of virtuous tastes flow together, meet together with them of virtuous tastes. So have they done in the past. So will they do in the future. So do they now in the present."


When we are together with someone for a long time we cannot help being influenced by him. If we have foolish friends, who do not know the value of kusalā, who act and speak in an unwholesome way, it is to our detriment. We may not notice that we are under their influence, but gradually we may find ourselves following their ways. If we have friends who know the value of kusalā, who are generous, perform good deeds and speak in a wholesome way, it encourages us to more wholesomeness. The Buddha often pointed out the dangers of evil friendship and the benefit of righteous friendship....

At the end of the line, when one has already crossed the flood, one needs to abound all views and stands (Raft-simile ). But such neither means that one would teach non-view nor encourage people to imitate such, since the path is walked in the world. Its a common wrong view that liberation of views can be attained by non-view. Only your own discernment, investigation, truthfulness and mostly faith in the good teachings can possible protect you from falling into the trap of sapwood and householder equanimity .

Atma will now end this short talk on "How to address wrong view". Discussions and questions as well as critic are like always welcome.

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

Puññassidāni katassa
Yānaññāni katāni me
Tesañca bhāgino hontu
Sattānantāppamāṇaka.


May all beings  —  without limit, without end  —
   have a share in the merit just now made,
   and in whatever other merit I have made.

Ye piyā guṇavantā ca
Mayhaṃ mātā-pitādayo
Diṭṭhā me cāpyadiṭṭhā vā
Aññe majjhatta-verino;


Those who are dear & kind to me  —
   beginning with my mother & father  —
   whom I have seen or never seen;
   and others, neutral or hostile;

Sattā tiṭṭhanti lokasmiṃ
Te-bhummā catu-yonikā
Pañc'eka-catuvokārā
Saṃsarantā bhavābhave:


beings established in the cosmos  —
   the three realms, the four modes of birth,
   with five, one, or four aggregates  —
   wandering on from realm to realm:

Ñātaṃ ye pattidānam-me
Anumodantu te sayaṃ
Ye cimaṃ nappajānanti
Devā tesaṃ nivedayuṃ.


If they know of my dedication of merit,
   may they themselves rejoice,
   And if they do not know,
   may the devas inform them.

Mayā dinnāna-puññānaṃ
Anumodana-hetunā
Sabbe sattā sadā hontu
Averā sukha-jīvino


By reason of their rejoicing
   in my gift of merit,
   may all beings always live happily,
   free from animosity.

Khemappadañca pappontu
Tesāsā sijjhataṃ subhā.


May they attain the Serene State,
   and their radiant hopes be fulfilled.

Even though the mind is intangible, it has influence over the body & all things in the world. It is capable of bringing everything in the world under its control. Still, it isn't so vicious or savage as to lack all sense of good & evil. When a person of good intentions trains the mind to enter correctly into the path of the Buddha's teachings, it will be tractable & quick to learn, developing the wisdom to bring the body, which may be behaving without any principles, back into line. In addition, it can cleanse itself to be bright & clean, free from defilements, able to realize by itself truths that are subtle & profound, bringing dazzling light into this world so dark with blindness.

This is because the true substance of the mind has been, from the very beginning, something bright & clear. But because of the preoccupations that have seeped into it and clouded it, the brightness of the mind has been temporarily darkened, making the world dark as well. If the mind were originally dark, there probably wouldn't be anyone able to cleanse it to the point where it could give rise to the light of discernment at all.

So whether the world is to be dark or bright, whether it is to experience well-being or suffering, depends on the mind of each individual. We as individuals should thus first train our own minds well, and then train the minds of others. The world will then be free from turmoil.


—Phra Ajān Thate Desaraṅsī
[/bockq]

Response answer on SE:

Upasaka Ryan,

Since it is a very important topic and need a lot of explaining, Atma has started to prepare a hopefully understandable answer here: How to address wrong view? It will take one day or two and of course a Book could be written and would be not at all of no use. So not finished yet but give it meanwhile the possibility to put further thoughts and questions while being in development into it.

Addition: Should be "fine" so fare. Having bend things here longer as a for a good, you may consider possible reasons and more that late consequences, maybe visible here . Sadhu for the effort of many here (as often told, your are trying and doing good in this circumstance, and there has been less exception and those have grown silent since Atmas "accidentally" birth took place here.

As told always welcome in the small "Online monastery " (and this invitation is not meant as such as concurrence or not appreciation of certain efforts here.) At least it anyhow a way to protect one against and react to wrong views.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 02:09:18 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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Antw:How to address wrong view?
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2016, 10:01:15 AM »
A revised and extended version as well attempt to translate in into German con be found here: How to address wrong view (preliminary)
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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Johann

October 19, 2017, 02:41:38 PM
Wenn jemand über das Layout des Entwurfes blicken möchte, ob es im eigenen Browser paßt und übersichtlich ist: Wisdom
 

Johann

October 16, 2017, 05:40:03 PM
Sokh chomreoun, Nyom. (Mag sukha sich für Nyom mehren). Thoamada (Dhammada - naturly, gewohnt). At mean ay pisech te (nichts besonders). Klach dukkh, klach sokh (wohl und weh wechseln sich ab). Nyom sokh sabay dea te? Sokh leumom dea te?
 

Marcel

October 16, 2017, 04:13:43 PM
 :-* ehrwürdiger samana johann! wie ist ihr befinden?  :-*
 

Marcel

October 07, 2017, 01:56:00 PM
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

October 07, 2017, 02:48:39 AM
Der Tathagata tut das, wenn man ihn in seinem Dhamma sieht, und dieser, entgegen Personen, kommt auf wenn man ihn nährt, und einmal da, geht er für einen nicht mehr verloren, bleibt Tor zur Todlosigkeit.
 

Marcel

October 06, 2017, 11:37:24 PM
 :-*
 

Marcel

October 06, 2017, 11:36:31 PM
 :-* ehrwürdiger samana johann :-* mögen sie noch lange leben,   für das wohl vieler.... anumodana, ich freue mich sehr! sie decken auf, was vorher verdeckt. so das vijja entstehen kann, und avijja gehen muss!! geht direkt ins herz!
 

Johann

October 06, 2017, 04:19:37 PM
Nyom Marcel.
 

Sophorn

September 28, 2017, 03:51:05 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

September 27, 2017, 12:17:53 PM
Nyom Sophorn, Roben mag man immer geben können. Im Monat nach dem Vassa Ende, ist es für jene Mönche, die den Vassa gehalten haben, möglich und einfacher für den Eigenbedarf Roben anzunehmen.
 

Sophorn

September 27, 2017, 07:01:23 AM
Bhante, ist dann die Robengabe möglich ab dem 5. Okt. bid zum nächsten Vollmond oder darf man auch danach Roben geben? :-*
 

Sophorn

September 27, 2017, 05:44:45 AM
Wie geht es Bhante heute? Haben die Tropfen geholfen?
 ::) :-*
 

Johann

September 05, 2017, 01:21:44 AM
Gerestet: funktioniert tadellos. Nochmal alle Zugangsdaten gemailt, Nyom.
 

Sophorn

September 04, 2017, 02:06:42 PM
Kana hat mit U. Chamroeun das Login mit neuem Passwort erfolglos versucht.
Daraufhin versuchten kana das über die Veränderung über E-mail, aber da erschien, dass die E-mailadresse nicht gültig war (die hatten Bhante auch an kana in der Mail bestätigt)
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

September 04, 2017, 11:52:03 AM
Sollte email im Posteingang haben, Nyom Sophorn.
 

Johann

September 04, 2017, 11:41:14 AM
Kann nicht antworten auf was, Nyom Maria? Was und wo genauer?

Nyom Sophorn. Nyom Chomroeun kann kurzlich email Daten bekommen. Mal annehmend das PW auch vergessen, (abgesenhen von der Möglichkeit, link zu drücken wenn) wird Atma ein neues anlegen und ihm mailen.
 

Maria

September 04, 2017, 11:30:41 AM
 :-*
Werther Bhante , selbiges Problem was ich schon einmal hatte, Login geht aber kann nicht antworten, bin am Nachmittag bei neuen Computer, dieser hier ist schon über 12 Jahre alt.
 

Sophorn

September 04, 2017, 11:23:14 AM
Kana hat das File runtergeladen und U. Chamroeun gegeben,  der sich um die Kprrektur annehmen möchte. Kana wird auch gern das File den anderen Schülern zum Lesen teilen. Ev. sehen mehr Augen mehr.
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Sophorn

September 04, 2017, 11:17:06 AM
Verehrter Bhante, Chamroeun kann sich nicht einloggen. Ist das Passwort für E-mail oder sangham.net? In beiden Fällen haben kana das erfolglos probiert.
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Sophorn

September 04, 2017, 11:08:26 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

August 20, 2017, 01:37:40 AM
Es ist vielleicht gut eine Pause zu tun, doch kann es gut sein, daß man nicht zurückkehrt, für ein gutes oder schlechtes, für sich selbt und andere. Gut dort wo gut genährt und unterstützt und for allem Konzentration steigt, oder dort wo satt in jeder Hinsicht.
 

Johann

August 10, 2017, 11:31:40 AM
Wenn jemand Lust hat, oder anderen etwas Gutes oder Besseres tun kann und möchte: Korrekturlesen http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,1018.msg9625.html#msg9625 Baue nach und nach, so gut wie möglich ein auf ZzE.
 

Johann

August 07, 2017, 02:24:55 AM
Einen ausübungsreichen Vollmond-Uposatha and Gelegenheit die Mönche zu besuchen wünscht meine Person.
 

Sophorn

July 25, 2017, 03:59:03 PM
... versteht und womöglich sieht, wenn er nicht den Weg hierher
findet.

Großer Dank an alle im Hintergrund.

Mögen all diese Früchte vielfach zurückkommen und inspirieren.

Ayu vanno sukkham balam

 :-* :-* :-*
 

Sophorn

July 25, 2017, 03:55:25 PM
 :-* :-* :-*
karuna tvay bongkum Preah metschah

Herzliches Hallo an alle nach sehr langem!

Ein herzliches Dankeschön aus tiefsten Herzen an alle, die sich hier aktiv und indirekt hier beteiligen. Vor allem ein großes Sadhu an Bhante, der unvergleichliche Arbeit leistet, die kaum jemand ver
 

Johann

July 24, 2017, 03:15:56 AM
Fehlinvestition: Was immer man nicht in die Juwelen, in den Pfad investiert, ist vergeude Mühe, schnurrr einen fest im Rad des Leidens. Prüfen Sie es!   :) Wiederholungstäter...
 

Johann

July 17, 2017, 01:50:17 AM
Moritz
 

Moritz

July 16, 2017, 02:28:02 PM
Namasakara, Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

July 14, 2017, 07:07:17 AM
Moritz. Gut ihn früh Morgens und nicht bis in den frühen Morgen zu sehen.
 

Moritz

July 14, 2017, 07:03:53 AM
Namasakara, Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

July 13, 2017, 08:12:46 AM
Moritz.
 

Moritz

July 13, 2017, 07:42:39 AM
Chom reap lea
_/\_
 

Moritz

July 13, 2017, 07:40:46 AM
Namasakara, Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

July 08, 2017, 02:26:09 AM
Vor mehr als 2500 Jahen wurde a diesem Vollmondtag das Rad des Dhammas in bewegung gesetzt. Anumodana!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

July 02, 2017, 08:24:13 AM
Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann,

ich bedanke mich bei Ihnen für Ihre nette Erklärung.

Dhamma Grüße an Sie aus Sri Lanka!

 

Johann

July 01, 2017, 07:43:41 PM
Nyom Mohan. Besser: "Ich hoffe, daß es Ihnen gut geht." und bestens (ohne suggerieren, wenn interessiert) "Wie geht es Ihnen." Oder: "Möge es Ihnen Gut gehen." (wenn metta ausdrücken wollend)
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

July 01, 2017, 10:43:15 AM
Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann,

ich glaube, dass es Ihnen gut geht.

Dhamma Grüße an Sie aus Sri Lanka!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

July 01, 2017, 10:32:46 AM
Werter Micro,
herzliche Grüße aus Sri Lanka nach Deutschland!
 

Johann

July 01, 2017, 10:32:17 AM
Nyom Mohan.
 

Johann

June 25, 2017, 01:38:38 PM
Alles Zufälle. Nissaya. Und wenn da keine starke Grundlagenursache aufkommt, upanissayapaccayena, na dann war's das, und alles is weg. Lebewesen sind Erben ihrer Taten (im Geist, Wort und Körper).
 

Johann

June 25, 2017, 01:27:24 PM
Schwupps und weg. Waffen und Nahrung geholt.

Oh, was sag ich. Wenn man's doch nehmen kann, auch ohne das Gefühl zu nehmen... Unsinn hier. Hat doch keiner interesse Verdienste zu tun.
 

Johann

June 25, 2017, 01:21:28 PM
Mirco. Wie geht es?
 

Johann

June 25, 2017, 01:20:43 PM
Es ist doch viel angenehmer, wenn man sich nehmen kann was und wann immer man will, oder? Warum sollte man sich so viel antun, da sind genügend die Anbieten.
 

Johann

June 14, 2017, 06:45:07 PM
Jetzt aber vorerst. Möge jeder guten Unterhalt (ung) im Dhamma und Stärkung finden uud sich davon reichlich nehmen.
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

June 11, 2017, 08:24:45 AM
Werter Harry,

ich freue mich darüber, nach einigen Monaten wieder auf sangham.net Sie zu grüßen.

Herzliche Grüße aus Sri Lanka nach Deutschland!
 

Johann

June 09, 2017, 05:05:59 PM
Mögen sich alle, möge sich Guest der Uposatha-Einhaltung nicht nur heute annehmen, und glücksverheißende Zeit verbringen.

May all, may Guest not only today observe the Uposatha and spend auspicious time
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

June 03, 2017, 01:48:08 AM
Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann,

es geht mir zur Zeit gut. Ich glaube, dass es Ihnen auch gut geht.

Dhamma Grüße an Sie aus Sri Lanka!
 

Johann

June 02, 2017, 11:19:32 PM
Wie geht es Upasaka Mohan?
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

June 02, 2017, 10:51:50 PM
Wie sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann geschrieben hat, hatte ich am 10. Mai 2017 meinen  Geburtstag, an dem Tag  in diesem Jahr das Wesakfest gefeiert wurde.
Beste Grüße an Sie aus Sri Lanka!
Mohan Barathi Gnanathilake
 

Johann

June 02, 2017, 12:33:54 PM
Wußte doch, daß so Nahrung immer gefressen werden will.  :)
"Sehr gut, weiter hungern."

Freut das Nyom Marcel wohlauf ist.

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