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[Buddha]

Author Topic: Enlightenment from giving - Explaining form the DW-monks  (Read 758 times)

Offline Johann

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Enlightenment from giving - Explaining form the DW-monks
« on: January 23, 2016, 04:19:56 PM »
First of all Atma is very happy that it finally come to existence, the Dana forum on DW which was long time opposed by the admins mods and community monks. Sadhu and mudita!

More "sad" but out of cause is the even first topic and the replay to it: Enlightenment from giving

Like mostly if laypeople have and inside that goes beyond the understanding and own practice of the certain monks, they cut a way any faith and belittle such insight.

Most significant is the meaningless comment of Dhammanando:

Quote from: Dhammādāno
   
ihrjordan wrote:
    This sutta sounds like giving will lead one to the goal...

    "With the abandoning and eradication of the five forms of stinginess, the holy
    life is fulfilled. Which five? "With the abandoning and eradication of
    stinginess as to one's monastery [lodgings], the holy life is fulfilled. With
    the abandoning and eradication of stinginess as to one's family [of supporters]
    ... stinginess as to one's gains ... stinginess as to one's status ...
    stinginess as to the Dhamma, the holy life is fulfilled. "With the abandoning
    and eradication of these five forms of stinginess, the holy life is fulfilled."




Here's a link to the translation (please supply your own in future [??]): http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an05/an05.254.than.html

   
ihrjordan wrote:
    How should this be interpreted?



It’s a poor translation and needs to be corrected before it is interpreted.

Pali: “Macchariyānaṃ pahānāya samucchedāya brahmacariyaṃ vussati.

Thanissaro: “With the abandoning and eradication of the five forms of stinginess, the holy life is fulfilled.”

Thanissaro appears to have taken pahānāya and samucchedāya (the nouns pahāna and samuccheda in the dative case) to be absolutive forms of the verbs pajahati and samucchindati. But the actual absolutive forms would be pahāya and samucchetvā.

As for vussati, I’m not sure what Thanissaro has taken it to be, but it is in fact the verb vasati (to live) in the passive voice.

Bhikkhu Bodhi renders the line correctly:

Bodhi: “The spiritual life is lived for the abandoning and eradication of five kinds of miserliness.”

How to interpret it? I don’t think there's very much to say really. It’s just one of numerous Anguttara suttas that enumerate the various defiled states for whose abandoning the brahmacariyā is lived.

Does he joking? first he says he needs to rephrase it and after that he says "It’s just one of numerous Anguttara suttas...". It must be a joke, taking the question "is letting go the way to awakening" He seems to have a serious me/mine problem in relation to possession, especially mental identification with things regarded as own ("my community" screams permanently of course). Of course the is no different at least, also if rendering is such a way, in regard of the meaning. This text does simply nothing else as to say "Don't worry, its possible to be attached to things while not attached to them..." and people like that and lose there good line again.

Of course Bhikkhu Bodhi as most "Mahayana Bhikkhus" has often given the notion as if dependent origination can be cut of on clinging chain (the "trick" how they Bodhisatvas keep on turning without knowing it). May its a a new discovered "Theramohayana" lineage that we are confronted today.

Well the Sutta itself is obliviously the most significant problem for the (miss)leader in this community by them self, since there is seldom another community and their monks which is more stingy in regard of those mentioned things like this and not gaining wisdom or Jhana or even the stream has also its causes like mentioned.

Certain different translation in German or English have btw. the ident meaning like the first quoted.

Its not good and nice to always destroy the insight of laypeople and pull them back, at least not nice for one self (if somebody does not care of others, having only his own monastery, family, possession, gains and status in focus.

Meanwhile, Atma can only serve with certain German texts in regard to this sutta: Knausrigkeit - Geiz und Neid (If one does not feel knausrig, but inspired one may also make it possible to share and share where it could be needed or is of great need.)
« Last Edit: January 23, 2016, 04:28:05 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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Johann

July 17, 2017, 01:50:17 AM
Moritz
 

Moritz

July 16, 2017, 02:28:02 PM
Namasakara, Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

July 14, 2017, 07:07:17 AM
Moritz. Gut ihn früh Morgens und nicht bis in den frühen Morgen zu sehen.
 

Moritz

July 14, 2017, 07:03:53 AM
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Johann

July 13, 2017, 08:12:46 AM
Moritz.
 

Moritz

July 13, 2017, 07:42:39 AM
Chom reap lea
_/\_
 

Moritz

July 13, 2017, 07:40:46 AM
Namasakara, Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

July 08, 2017, 02:26:09 AM
Vor mehr als 2500 Jahen wurde a diesem Vollmondtag das Rad des Dhammas in bewegung gesetzt. Anumodana!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

July 02, 2017, 08:24:13 AM
Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann,

ich bedanke mich bei Ihnen für Ihre nette Erklärung.

Dhamma Grüße an Sie aus Sri Lanka!

 

Johann

July 01, 2017, 07:43:41 PM
Nyom Mohan. Besser: "Ich hoffe, daß es Ihnen gut geht." und bestens (ohne suggerieren, wenn interessiert) "Wie geht es Ihnen." Oder: "Möge es Ihnen Gut gehen." (wenn metta ausdrücken wollend)
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

July 01, 2017, 10:43:15 AM
Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann,

ich glaube, dass es Ihnen gut geht.

Dhamma Grüße an Sie aus Sri Lanka!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

July 01, 2017, 10:32:46 AM
Werter Micro,
herzliche Grüße aus Sri Lanka nach Deutschland!
 

Johann

July 01, 2017, 10:32:17 AM
Nyom Mohan.
 

Johann

June 25, 2017, 01:38:38 PM
Alles Zufälle. Nissaya. Und wenn da keine starke Grundlagenursache aufkommt, upanissayapaccayena, na dann war's das, und alles is weg. Lebewesen sind Erben ihrer Taten (im Geist, Wort und Körper).
 

Johann

June 25, 2017, 01:27:24 PM
Schwupps und weg. Waffen und Nahrung geholt.

Oh, was sag ich. Wenn man's doch nehmen kann, auch ohne das Gefühl zu nehmen... Unsinn hier. Hat doch keiner interesse Verdienste zu tun.
 

Johann

June 25, 2017, 01:21:28 PM
Mirco. Wie geht es?
 

Johann

June 25, 2017, 01:20:43 PM
Es ist doch viel angenehmer, wenn man sich nehmen kann was und wann immer man will, oder? Warum sollte man sich so viel antun, da sind genügend die Anbieten.
 

Johann

June 14, 2017, 06:45:07 PM
Jetzt aber vorerst. Möge jeder guten Unterhalt (ung) im Dhamma und Stärkung finden uud sich davon reichlich nehmen.
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

June 11, 2017, 08:24:45 AM
Werter Harry,

ich freue mich darüber, nach einigen Monaten wieder auf sangham.net Sie zu grüßen.

Herzliche Grüße aus Sri Lanka nach Deutschland!
 

Johann

June 09, 2017, 05:05:59 PM
Mögen sich alle, möge sich Guest der Uposatha-Einhaltung nicht nur heute annehmen, und glücksverheißende Zeit verbringen.

May all, may Guest not only today observe the Uposatha and spend auspicious time
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

June 03, 2017, 01:48:08 AM
Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann,

es geht mir zur Zeit gut. Ich glaube, dass es Ihnen auch gut geht.

Dhamma Grüße an Sie aus Sri Lanka!
 

Johann

June 02, 2017, 11:19:32 PM
Wie geht es Upasaka Mohan?
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

June 02, 2017, 10:51:50 PM
Wie sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann geschrieben hat, hatte ich am 10. Mai 2017 meinen  Geburtstag, an dem Tag  in diesem Jahr das Wesakfest gefeiert wurde.
Beste Grüße an Sie aus Sri Lanka!
Mohan Barathi Gnanathilake
 

Johann

June 02, 2017, 12:33:54 PM
Wußte doch, daß so Nahrung immer gefressen werden will.  :)
"Sehr gut, weiter hungern."

Freut das Nyom Marcel wohlauf ist.
 

Marcel

June 02, 2017, 12:20:52 PM
weil "keines" immer noch die bezugnahme auf eines hat!
 

Johann

June 02, 2017, 10:23:46 AM
Wenn zwei mehr als eines sid, warum ist dann keines auch eines?
 

Johann

May 20, 2017, 04:30:26 PM
Moritz
 

Moritz

May 20, 2017, 03:42:08 PM
Namasakara, Bhante. _/\_
 

Johann

May 18, 2017, 09:56:06 AM
Sadhu und Mudita.
 

Moritz

May 18, 2017, 09:53:33 AM
_/\_ _/\_ _/\_
 

Sophorn

May 18, 2017, 09:22:19 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
Wünsche allen einen guten Silatag.
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 16, 2017, 01:45:43 PM
Erfreulich
 

Maria

May 16, 2017, 12:09:45 PM
 :-*Werte Sophorn noch am Flughafen getroffen :)
sitzt im Flieger :-*
 

Johann

May 16, 2017, 02:20:58 AM
Ein Dhammatalk, über ein paar Audiofiles, sicher auch gut für ihre Familie, Mutter... http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,7997.0.html
 

Sophorn

May 16, 2017, 02:17:07 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 16, 2017, 02:11:44 AM
Vielleicht möchte Nyom Maria sie noch gerne am Flughafen verabschieden, wenn sie von der Gelegenheit weis.
 

Johann

May 16, 2017, 02:08:13 AM
Gute Reise und beste Wünsche an alle.
 

Sophorn

May 16, 2017, 02:04:14 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
 karuna tvay bongkum
kana macht sich in knapp 4h auf den weg nach Wien und dann Richtung K. Ankunft morgen in PP.
gerade ist kana am Sammeln vor der Abreise.
kana wünscht Bhante gute Genesung.
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 16, 2017, 01:48:42 AM
Nyom Sophorn. Wieder zurück im Land der Khmer? Mag Reise und Aufenthalt angenehm gewesen sein.
 

Johann

May 10, 2017, 09:51:50 AM
Qi-Van-Chi
 

Johann

May 10, 2017, 01:30:17 AM
Verdienstreiche und befreiende Vesak - Pūjā allen, heute.
 

Johann

May 09, 2017, 09:20:24 AM
Atma will rest a little today and use the "hair cut day" to maintain his body a little for tomorrow's Puja, so see, Moritz has won a whole day today, maybe use it for same. Best wishes!
 

Moritz

May 09, 2017, 08:58:33 AM
Namasakara Bhante.
May you have a good Vesakha Puja!
_/\_
 

Johann

May 08, 2017, 10:43:50 AM
Viel Freude beim Aufräumen und angenehmes "Brotverdienen"
 

Moritz

May 08, 2017, 09:32:47 AM
Muss nun hier aufräumen und bald los Brot verdienen. Wünsche einen angenehmen Tag.
_/\_
 

Moritz

May 08, 2017, 09:25:13 AM
Namasakara, Bhante. _/\_
 

Johann

May 06, 2017, 05:42:48 PM
Nyom Senghour.
Darf Atma darauf vertrauen, daß es Ihm gut geht?
 

Johann

May 03, 2017, 08:26:24 PM
Hr. Bernd, Atma zieht sich für heute zurück. Viel Freude beim Entdecken.
 

Marcel

April 29, 2017, 11:44:21 AM
 :-*
 

Johann

April 29, 2017, 11:29:06 AM
Atma wird kurz etwas Wasser zum trinken abkochen.

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