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[Buddha]

Author Topic: Enlightenment from giving - Explaining form the DW-monks  (Read 937 times)

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Offline Johann

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Enlightenment from giving - Explaining form the DW-monks
« on: January 23, 2016, 04:19:56 PM »
First of all Atma is very happy that it finally come to existence, the Dana forum on DW which was long time opposed by the admins mods and community monks. Sadhu and mudita!

More "sad" but out of cause is the even first topic and the replay to it: Enlightenment from giving

Like mostly if laypeople have and inside that goes beyond the understanding and own practice of the certain monks, they cut a way any faith and belittle such insight.

Most significant is the meaningless comment of Dhammanando:

Quote from: Dhammādāno
   
ihrjordan wrote:
    This sutta sounds like giving will lead one to the goal...

    "With the abandoning and eradication of the five forms of stinginess, the holy
    life is fulfilled. Which five? "With the abandoning and eradication of
    stinginess as to one's monastery [lodgings], the holy life is fulfilled. With
    the abandoning and eradication of stinginess as to one's family [of supporters]
    ... stinginess as to one's gains ... stinginess as to one's status ...
    stinginess as to the Dhamma, the holy life is fulfilled. "With the abandoning
    and eradication of these five forms of stinginess, the holy life is fulfilled."




Here's a link to the translation (please supply your own in future [??]): http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an05/an05.254.than.html

   
ihrjordan wrote:
    How should this be interpreted?



It’s a poor translation and needs to be corrected before it is interpreted.

Pali: “Macchariyānaṃ pahānāya samucchedāya brahmacariyaṃ vussati.

Thanissaro: “With the abandoning and eradication of the five forms of stinginess, the holy life is fulfilled.”

Thanissaro appears to have taken pahānāya and samucchedāya (the nouns pahāna and samuccheda in the dative case) to be absolutive forms of the verbs pajahati and samucchindati. But the actual absolutive forms would be pahāya and samucchetvā.

As for vussati, I’m not sure what Thanissaro has taken it to be, but it is in fact the verb vasati (to live) in the passive voice.

Bhikkhu Bodhi renders the line correctly:

Bodhi: “The spiritual life is lived for the abandoning and eradication of five kinds of miserliness.”

How to interpret it? I don’t think there's very much to say really. It’s just one of numerous Anguttara suttas that enumerate the various defiled states for whose abandoning the brahmacariyā is lived.

Does he joking? first he says he needs to rephrase it and after that he says "It’s just one of numerous Anguttara suttas...". It must be a joke, taking the question "is letting go the way to awakening" He seems to have a serious me/mine problem in relation to possession, especially mental identification with things regarded as own ("my community" screams permanently of course). Of course the is no different at least, also if rendering is such a way, in regard of the meaning. This text does simply nothing else as to say "Don't worry, its possible to be attached to things while not attached to them..." and people like that and lose there good line again.

Of course Bhikkhu Bodhi as most "Mahayana Bhikkhus" has often given the notion as if dependent origination can be cut of on clinging chain (the "trick" how they Bodhisatvas keep on turning without knowing it). May its a a new discovered "Theramohayana" lineage that we are confronted today.

Well the Sutta itself is obliviously the most significant problem for the (miss)leader in this community by them self, since there is seldom another community and their monks which is more stingy in regard of those mentioned things like this and not gaining wisdom or Jhana or even the stream has also its causes like mentioned.

Certain different translation in German or English have btw. the ident meaning like the first quoted.

Its not good and nice to always destroy the insight of laypeople and pull them back, at least not nice for one self (if somebody does not care of others, having only his own monastery, family, possession, gains and status in focus.

Meanwhile, Atma can only serve with certain German texts in regard to this sutta: Knausrigkeit - Geiz und Neid (If one does not feel knausrig, but inspired one may also make it possible to share and share where it could be needed or is of great need.)
« Last Edit: January 23, 2016, 04:28:05 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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January 18, 2018, 05:02:41 AM
Atma war, aus irgend einem Grund, fest überzeugt, das gestern Uposatha sein sollte, trotzdem er am Almosengang gar Laien in Wat ziehen sah (denkend, gut auch heute an punna teilzunehmen). Selbigem Thema gegegnend, sah Atma nach und mußte feststellen, das bereits der 16. war. So zu diesem Ausmaß (
 

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