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[Buddha]

Author Topic: Enlightenment from giving - Explaining form the DW-monks  (Read 1008 times)

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Online Johann

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Enlightenment from giving - Explaining form the DW-monks
« on: January 23, 2016, 04:19:56 PM »
First of all Atma is very happy that it finally come to existence, the Dana forum on DW which was long time opposed by the admins mods and community monks. Sadhu and mudita!

More "sad" but out of cause is the even first topic and the replay to it: Enlightenment from giving

Like mostly if laypeople have and inside that goes beyond the understanding and own practice of the certain monks, they cut a way any faith and belittle such insight.

Most significant is the meaningless comment of Dhammanando:

Quote from: Dhammādāno
   
ihrjordan wrote:
    This sutta sounds like giving will lead one to the goal...

    "With the abandoning and eradication of the five forms of stinginess, the holy
    life is fulfilled. Which five? "With the abandoning and eradication of
    stinginess as to one's monastery [lodgings], the holy life is fulfilled. With
    the abandoning and eradication of stinginess as to one's family [of supporters]
    ... stinginess as to one's gains ... stinginess as to one's status ...
    stinginess as to the Dhamma, the holy life is fulfilled. "With the abandoning
    and eradication of these five forms of stinginess, the holy life is fulfilled."




Here's a link to the translation (please supply your own in future [??]): http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an05/an05.254.than.html

   
ihrjordan wrote:
    How should this be interpreted?



It’s a poor translation and needs to be corrected before it is interpreted.

Pali: “Macchariyānaṃ pahānāya samucchedāya brahmacariyaṃ vussati.

Thanissaro: “With the abandoning and eradication of the five forms of stinginess, the holy life is fulfilled.”

Thanissaro appears to have taken pahānāya and samucchedāya (the nouns pahāna and samuccheda in the dative case) to be absolutive forms of the verbs pajahati and samucchindati. But the actual absolutive forms would be pahāya and samucchetvā.

As for vussati, I’m not sure what Thanissaro has taken it to be, but it is in fact the verb vasati (to live) in the passive voice.

Bhikkhu Bodhi renders the line correctly:

Bodhi: “The spiritual life is lived for the abandoning and eradication of five kinds of miserliness.”

How to interpret it? I don’t think there's very much to say really. It’s just one of numerous Anguttara suttas that enumerate the various defiled states for whose abandoning the brahmacariyā is lived.

Does he joking? first he says he needs to rephrase it and after that he says "It’s just one of numerous Anguttara suttas...". It must be a joke, taking the question "is letting go the way to awakening" He seems to have a serious me/mine problem in relation to possession, especially mental identification with things regarded as own ("my community" screams permanently of course). Of course the is no different at least, also if rendering is such a way, in regard of the meaning. This text does simply nothing else as to say "Don't worry, its possible to be attached to things while not attached to them..." and people like that and lose there good line again.

Of course Bhikkhu Bodhi as most "Mahayana Bhikkhus" has often given the notion as if dependent origination can be cut of on clinging chain (the "trick" how they Bodhisatvas keep on turning without knowing it). May its a a new discovered "Theramohayana" lineage that we are confronted today.

Well the Sutta itself is obliviously the most significant problem for the (miss)leader in this community by them self, since there is seldom another community and their monks which is more stingy in regard of those mentioned things like this and not gaining wisdom or Jhana or even the stream has also its causes like mentioned.

Certain different translation in German or English have btw. the ident meaning like the first quoted.

Its not good and nice to always destroy the insight of laypeople and pull them back, at least not nice for one self (if somebody does not care of others, having only his own monastery, family, possession, gains and status in focus.

Meanwhile, Atma can only serve with certain German texts in regard to this sutta: Knausrigkeit - Geiz und Neid (If one does not feel knausrig, but inspired one may also make it possible to share and share where it could be needed or is of great need.)
« Last Edit: January 23, 2016, 04:28:05 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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Danilo

April 15, 2018, 12:43:25 AM
Bhante _/\_
 

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Nyom Danilo.
 

Johann

April 12, 2018, 10:05:15 AM
Moritz
 

Moritz

April 12, 2018, 08:34:11 AM
Namasakara, Bhante. _/\_
 

Moritz

April 10, 2018, 07:19:18 PM
Hello.
 

Johann

April 10, 2018, 01:09:20 PM
Nyom. (Sideboad ist stets zugeklappt... tech. Probl.) 3:00 ist auch schon guten Tag.
 

Moritz

April 10, 2018, 03:06:49 AM
Good day (night here)
_/\_
 

Moritz

April 10, 2018, 02:54:42 AM
Namasakara, Bhante. _/\_
 

Johann

April 09, 2018, 09:43:17 AM
Take your time Nyom Danilo and watch the breath to stay best calm for best benefit. A lot of chances to get ride of many ols burdens.
 

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April 08, 2018, 06:24:57 PM
_/\_
 

Johann

April 08, 2018, 05:54:03 PM
Nyom Danilo.
 

Marcel

April 08, 2018, 09:58:59 AM
sadhu!
 

Johann

April 08, 2018, 07:35:17 AM
Sadhu!
 

Moritz

April 08, 2018, 06:13:54 AM
Good Uposatha to all. _/\_
 

Marcel

April 01, 2018, 06:17:08 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

March 31, 2018, 07:13:47 PM
Nyom Jens.
 

Johann

March 31, 2018, 10:11:20 AM
Sadhu!
 

Marcel

March 31, 2018, 09:52:03 AM
 :-* ich wünsche allen ein verdienstvollen uposatha  :-*
 

Johann

March 27, 2018, 06:44:11 PM
Atma zieht sich hier nun zurück. Möge sich Vollkommenheit einstellen.
 

Johann

March 27, 2018, 05:26:44 PM
Nyom Binocular.
 

Johann

March 27, 2018, 04:10:58 PM
Nyom Jens.
 

Johann

March 27, 2018, 01:47:58 PM
Brahmane Hanspeter.
 

Johann

March 27, 2018, 01:41:50 PM
Moritz, mag sich Vollendung ergeben. (Chamreun bo)
 

Moritz

March 27, 2018, 12:20:53 PM
Chom reap sour. _/\_
 

Moritz

March 27, 2018, 12:11:33 PM
Vandami, Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

March 26, 2018, 01:42:45 PM
Nyom Binocular.

my person will leave for today and rests. There have been left some hard challenges (sure for many). May they be releasing taken and increase conviction.
 

Johann

March 25, 2018, 01:40:14 PM
Gute Antwort. Sadhu!
 

Marcel

March 25, 2018, 12:46:12 PM
 :-* :-* :-*

beste wünsche zurück an erhwürdigen bhante! es ist unsicher wann ich wieder komme! upanissayapaccayena!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

March 25, 2018, 12:28:38 PM
Marcel.
(Heute im Nordkloster, best wünsche vom Abt dort, er fragt stets "Wann kommt er? Ich muß immer an ihn denken."
 

Johann

March 24, 2018, 10:44:34 AM
Sadhu!
 

Marcel

March 24, 2018, 09:52:48 AM
 :-* heute ist uposatha!! ich wünsche allen ein verdienstvollen tag! mögen die devas jene bescheid geben, die kein zugang haben! :-*
 

Johann

March 23, 2018, 11:37:46 AM
Sadhu! Zu was immer einer Zuflucht nimmt, sich hingibt, daran erfreut, das wird/ist sein Schutz, für Bindung oder Ungebundenheit.
 

Marcel

March 23, 2018, 01:43:01 AM
 :-* möge die drei juwelen den ehrwürdigen bhante beschützen und ihn auf seinem weg unterstützen :-*
 

Johann

March 23, 2018, 01:28:02 AM
Kampf der Devas mit den Asuras um den Berg. :)
 

Johann

March 23, 2018, 01:26:30 AM
Regenzeit... außen trüb und unangenehm, nagend, faulend, doch dahinter ist alles fein.
 

Marcel

March 23, 2018, 01:10:47 AM
 :-* ehrwürdiger bhante johann, ja soweit alles gut! und wie geht es ihnen?  :-*
 

Johann

March 23, 2018, 12:58:05 AM
verlesen... Marcel :) alles gut im (ver)laufen?
 

Johann

March 23, 2018, 12:26:23 AM
Moritz
 

Administration

March 21, 2018, 03:42:55 PM
Sadhu!
 

Marcel

March 21, 2018, 03:32:47 PM
 :-* mögen sie alle noch in diesem leben das herz von avijja befreien!!! :-*
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 05:20:12 AM
This "wiki"-like backup tool is meant as a outwardy insurance that one does not be afraid that anything possible good can be desroyed or made bad while looking for cleaning it. So worry at all, kamma does not dissapear. No need to fear to make good deeds, knowing that.
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 04:03:35 AM
And there is no intention to just make a museum out of a working and concentration camp, since the Dhamma can not be understood by just looking on forms but by learning and experiance skillful deeds.
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 04:00:47 AM
Post-history: http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,1164.0.html (but there is no notification system). My person uses to make a @mention , off topic "/me" in the OP.
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 03:49:28 AM
Or to simply make a new post. No need to be shy in doing good things. It's not a museum, it's a working and concentration place. Mudita.
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 03:47:57 AM
There is such as a "wiki" backup function in all posts, Nyom Danilo. Good is to use the mention option, at the places where making changes @Johann , that it gets not "lost".
 

Danilo

March 19, 2018, 03:02:46 AM
I have a backup of the original post in any case. I might review the second post next time. Very insightful teaching. _/\_
 

Danilo

March 19, 2018, 03:01:35 AM
I've recently fixed many words and sentences of the first post of the thread "Debts, but to whom?". It take me some time trying to figure out the meaning of some sentences. So it would be good if Bhante could check if the original intended meaning of the post still intact. I have a backup of the ori
 

Danilo

March 19, 2018, 01:57:28 AM
_/\_ _/\_ _/\_
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 12:01:09 AM
One leading to peaks pointing downward so that aging, sickness and death can be seen, know him/her as a sage, a giver of release.
 

Johann

March 18, 2018, 11:57:30 PM
One leading people to papanca, promoting rejoicing in objectification as the heart wood, increases to fields of corpse in the world.

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