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Talkbox

Like when enter or join, a shrine, another's sphere, or back: good for greating, bye, veneration, short talks, quick help. Some infos on regards .


2024 Mar 24 19:07:11
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ 😌

2024 Mar 24 14:13:29
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 24 06:25:25
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed full moon Uposatha by following the conducts of the Arahats.

2024 Mar 23 13:11:16
blazer: Hello everyone  _/\_

2024 Mar 21 01:07:56
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom

2024 Mar 21 00:28:58
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 20 14:25:49
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 20 12:06:29
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom

2024 Mar 20 11:24:06
blazer: Good morning everyone  _/\_

2024 Mar 18 21:42:50
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 18 19:43:59
Dhammañāṇa: Mudita, Nyom.

2024 Mar 18 19:36:35
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Undertaking this Sila day at my best.

2024 Mar 18 06:17:10
Dhammañāṇa: Those who undertake the Sila day today: may it be of much metta.

2024 Mar 18 02:16:41
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 17 21:09:31
អរិយវង្ស: 🚬🚬🚬

2024 Mar 17 06:30:53
Dhammañāṇa: Metta-full Sila day, those after it today.

2024 Mar 17 00:02:34
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 11 09:16:04
Dhammañāṇa: Once totally caught by google, AI and machines, every door has been closed for long, long term.

2024 Mar 11 09:14:04
Dhammañāṇa: People at large just wait that another would do his/her duty. Once a slight door to run back, they are gone. By going again just for debts, the wheel of running away turns on.

2024 Mar 10 18:59:10
Dhammañāṇa: Less are those who don't use the higher Dhamma not for defilement-defence, less those who don't throw the basics away and turn back to sensuality "with ease".

2024 Mar 10 06:51:11
Dhammañāṇa: A auspicious new-moon Uposatha for those observing it today.

2024 Mar 09 06:34:39
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed New-moon Uposatha, and birth reminder day of a monarchy of wonders.

2024 Mar 08 21:39:54
Dhammañāṇa: The best way to keep an Ashram silent is to put always duties and Sila high. If wishing it populated, put meditation (eating) on the first place.

2024 Mar 03 21:27:27
Dhammañāṇa: May those undertaking the Sila day today, spend it off in best ways, similar those who go after the days purpose tomorrow.

2024 Feb 25 22:10:33
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 24 06:42:35
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Māgha Pūjā and Full moon Uposatha with much reason for good recallings of goodness.

2024 Feb 24 01:50:55
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 23 06:39:57
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom

2024 Feb 23 00:19:58
blazer: Taken flu again... at least leg pain has been better managed since many weeks and it's the greatest benefit. Hope Bhante Dhammañāṇa is fine  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 18 01:06:43
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 18 00:02:37
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 17 18:47:31
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed rest of todays Sila-day.

2024 Feb 17 18:46:59
Dhammañāṇa: Chau Marco, chau...

2024 Feb 16 23:32:59
blazer: Just ended important burocratic and medical stuff. I will check for a flight for Cambodia soon  _/\_

2024 Feb 09 16:08:32
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 09 12:17:31
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 09 06:42:17
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a blessed New moon Uposatha and last day of the Chinese year of the rabbit, entering the Year of the Naga wisely.

2024 Feb 02 21:17:28
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 02 19:53:28
Dhammañāṇa: May all have the possibility to spend a pleasing rest of Sila day, having given goodness and spend a faultless day.

2024 Jan 26 14:40:25
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 25 10:02:46
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a blessed Full moon Uposatha.

2024 Jan 11 06:37:21
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 07 06:31:20
Dhammañāṇa: May many, by skilful deeds,  go for real and lasting independence today

2024 Jan 06 18:00:36
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 04 16:57:17
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 04 12:33:08
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Sila-day, full of metta in thoughts, speech and deeds.

2023 Dec 30 20:21:07
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 27 23:18:38
Dhammañāṇa: May the rest of a bright full moon Uposatha serve many as a blessed day of good deeds.

2023 Dec 26 23:12:17
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 24 16:52:50
Dhammañāṇa: May all who celebrated the birth of their prophet, declaring them his ideas of reaching the Brahma realm, spend peaceful days with family and reflect the goodness near around them, virtuous, generously.

2023 Dec 20 21:36:37
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 20 06:54:09
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Sila day, by conducting in peacefull manners.

2023 Dec 12 23:45:24
blazer:  _/\_

2023 Dec 12 20:34:26
Dhammañāṇa: choice, yes  :)

2023 Dec 12 13:23:35
blazer: If meaning freedom of choice i understand and agree

2023 Dec 12 12:48:42
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 12 06:13:23
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a great New Moon Uposatha, following the conducts of the Arahats.

2023 Dec 10 12:51:16
Dhammañāṇa: The more freedom of joice, the more troubled in regard of what's right, what's wrong. My person does not say that people at large are prepared for freedom of joice even a little.

2023 Dec 10 10:59:42
blazer: Hope they eat more mindfully than how they talk. It is clear for the gross food, we had more than a talk about this topic. I have put so much effort in mindful eating at the temple, but when i was back i wanted more refined food. I was used to get a choice of more than 10 dishes every day

2023 Dec 10 06:57:44
Dhammañāṇa: A person eating on unskilled thoughts will last defiled, Nyom. Gross food does nothing for purification at all.

2023 Dec 09 21:41:58
blazer: I've had a couple of not nice experiences with monks that were not so pure in my opinion. They surely eat far better than me at temple.

2023 Dec 09 21:41:41
blazer: Ven. Johann  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 09 11:38:36
Dhammañāṇa: Spiritual prostitution, just another way of livelihood.

2023 Dec 05 20:59:38
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a pleasing rest of Sila-day.

2023 Nov 27 14:47:22
អរិយវង្ស:   _/\_ _/\__/\_

2023 Nov 27 05:41:32
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a blessed Anapanasati- Fullmoon and reflect the goodness of Ven Sāriputta as well today.

2023 Nov 20 19:18:13
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 20 18:20:15
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a pleasing rest of Sila-day.

2023 Nov 20 02:48:24
Moritz: Hello _/\_ Still possible to join: An-other Journey into the East 2023/24

2023 Nov 18 13:55:11
blazer: Hello everyone  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 12 01:09:01
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom

2023 Nov 12 00:45:21
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 09 19:42:10
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 09 07:17:02
Dhammañāṇa: សិលា​នាំ​ទៅ​រក​ឯករាជ្យ​នៃ​ជាតិ! សូមឱ្យមនុស្សជាច្រើនប្រារព្ធទិវាឯករាជ្យ(ពី)ជាតិ។

2023 Nov 09 07:06:56
Dhammañāṇa: Sila leads to independence of Jati! May many observe a conductive Independence day.

2023 Nov 07 00:54:02
Dhammañāṇa: Nyoum

2023 Nov 07 00:39:55
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 06 15:47:51
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 06 12:21:27
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Sila observation day today.

2023 Oct 30 15:17:36
Dhammañāṇa: It's common in to give up that what's given to do assist me toward release, common that seeking security in what binds.

2023 Oct 30 13:22:27
អរិយវង្ស: ព្រះអង្គ :) កូណាលុប delta chat ហើយ :D _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Oct 23 18:56:09
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Oct 22 20:36:01
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a pleasing rest of this Sila-day.

2023 Oct 19 20:31:12
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom Sreyneang

2023 Oct 15 07:07:01
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Oct 14 06:53:21
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a New moon Uposatha based on goodwill for all, find seclusion in the middle of family duties.

2023 Sep 29 07:35:30
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 29 07:23:47
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 29 07:03:11
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed full moon Uposatha and begin of the ancestor weeks by lived metta and virtue: lived gratitude toward all being, toward one self.

2023 Sep 22 22:07:43
Dhammañāṇa: If no rush turn toward reducing sensuality and make Silas the top of priority, it's to fear that an Atomic conflic will be chosen soon, in the battle of control of the "drugs".

2023 Sep 22 14:59:39
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 22 06:35:51
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Uposatha Observance on this Sila-day, by conducting similar the Arahats.

2023 Sep 16 19:29:27
blazer: Ven. Johann  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 16 19:29:13
blazer: Hello everyone! I've just come back home. I had a long trip and no sleep for more than 30 hours, but currently feel quite good. I've had a good experience, i'm happy. I've found out much inspiration and many ideas about the training and the holy life. I'll recollect and write about them as soon as i've taken some rest. Hope to find you all well and in good health  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 15 05:25:24
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 14 21:09:49
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed rest of New moon Uposatha today (later as no connection before).

2023 Sep 10 01:55:47
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_?

2023 Sep 09 18:52:54
Dhammañāṇa: No existence, no 'way of life', can excel the finally journey, just 'busy' in given away all of what ever made one's own. A total remorse-less existence. May many go for it, and see the way toward the deathless, no more worry of past, future and present as well.

2023 Sep 09 18:52:28
Dhammañāṇa: No existence, no 'way of life', can excel the finally journey, just 'busy' in given away all of what ever made one's own. A total remorse-less existence. May many go for it, and see the way toward the deathless, no more worry of past, future and present as well.

2023 Sep 08 06:19:20
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Sila day, by maintaining goodwill toward all, not only by deeds and speech, but with nine factors, incl. a mind full of metta.

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Author Topic: [transcripting] The Concept of Emptiness in Pali Literature  (Read 5807 times)

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Offline Dhammañāṇa

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[transcripting] The Concept of Emptiness in Pali Literature
« on: February 16, 2013, 12:37:27 AM »
Transmitted and shared from a Dhamma-Dana  book contributed by www.budaedu.org

The Concept of Emptiness in Pali Literature

 (Medawachchiye Dhammajothi Thero)
This Study on Sunnata (Skt. Sunyata) is mainly based on the Pali text. However, is is known that suyata came into prominence only with the rise of Madhyamaka philosophy of Acarya Nagarjuna. Therfore, no study of Sunnata is complete, without any reference to Sunyata as presented in Madhyamaka philosophy.

This study was done also with the objective of clarifying certain widely presented views regarding Sunyata. One of them is that this doctrine was not known to early Buddhism, or in other words, not a doctrine taught by the Buddha. This view gained so much of popularity, that scholars of the caliber of Stcherbatsky, followed by T.R.V. Murti boldly claimed this to be an innovation of Acarya Nagarjuna. Murti even went into the extent of comparing Acarya Nagajuna’s teaching an Sunyata as a ‘Copernican revolution’ in Buddhist tought. Therefore, besides explaining Sunna as found in the Suttas, an attempt has been made in this thesis also to show that this doctrine was well known to early Buddhism.

Thus, two whole chapter of this has been denoted to examine use of Sunna and other related terms in the suttas and in Post – canonical Pali literature. By enumerating and explaining such usage it has been possible to establish that this Sunna idea is not unknown to either the Buddha or to the disciples. However, the study shows that the terms Sunna/Sunnata are not of common occurrence as the term Anatta. It also came to light that even the disciples, though they knew what Sunna/Sunnata meant were far more familiar with the Anatta doctrine.
An attempt was made to examine how Sunya/Sunyata came into prominence overshadowing Anatta doctrine. In the present researchers view it is the early Madhyamaka texts like “Astasahasrikaprjnaparamita” etc., that contributed to the early popularity of these terms as a religious technical term.

These early Mahayana texts were in response to the non-Mahayana Buddhist schools that upheld the existence of some sorts of metaphysical entity that lay as the essence in everything. Of these schools the most prominent was the Sarvastivada school, and this belonged to the Therevada (=Hinayana tradition). This school in its attempt to explain reality, put forward a novel view which said that there is a self—nature (Sva-bhava) in everything, and that this Svabhava exists in all three periods of time namely, past present and future. The earliest criticism against this and other substantialist and essentialist views was by Mahayanists. In counter-arguing this view these early Mahayana texts highlighted the emptiness, voidness (Sunyata) of everything. It is, however, Nagajuna that made this his central thesis in presenting the Madhyamaka philosophy of his.

In this book an attempt has been made to show that Anatta and Sunya/Sunyata are not two different concepts. The present researcher is in agreement with the view that these two concepts cover the same range in their philosophical application; and that the preference for this term Sunya/Sunyata over Anatta only a shift of emphasis. The present researcher attempted to establish this point, citing textual and circumstantial evidence.

In doing this it has been attempted to demonstrate that the Buddh, too, used the term Sunna, and that he did so, not to bring out a new perspective but to further emphasize the absence of a self or anything connected with the self as the noumenon behind the phenomenon. In support of this textual evidence has been cited. It has also been shown that “Anatta” as used in early Suttas, did not merely mean the absence of an individual soul, but meant also the absence of any entity in both compounded (Samkhata/Samskrta) elements as well as in uncompounded (Asamkhata, Asamskrta) elements, that is Nibbana. Thus, it has been clearly shown that anatta means “emptiness” of everything, including Nibbana (Nirnvana).
Modern scholarship has attempted to sow that Acarya Nagarjuna gave a new interpretation to the Pratityasamutpada doctrine, and it is Acaeya nagarjuna that presented it as the central philosophy of Buddhism. It is true, according to the teachings of the present researcher, that Acarya Nagarjuny lays mere stress on the relativity aspect of Pratityasamutpada, while the early sutta forces more on its dependent origination aspect. Once again these are only different angles or perspectives from which the same doctrine is viewed. Paticca-samuppada/Pratitya-samutpada emphasis, both interdependence and relativity. In the final analysis these two aspects cannot be separated.

In early Sutta Paticca-sumppada was presented to explain causality, and in doing so the Buddha had to show that the then prevalent theories namly, self-creation, (Saya katam) external creation (Param katam) both self-creation and external creation, and also no causation or accidental causation (=Ahetu-appaccaya, Adhicca-samuppanna or yadrcchavada) are wrong. His explanation of Patucca-samuppada was focused on the rejection of these other causal theories.

Madhyamaka, however, emphasis the reality aspect of Pratityasamutpada and us it as a counter argument to nullify the Svadhava theory. Because of this Pratityasamutpada was considered more as an explaination of the voidness of everything. The two explanations namely, that of the Theravada Buddhist school and the Mahayana philosophy of the Pratitya-samutpada formula is not different in spirit thought the emphasis is different. And, of course, it has to be admitted that emphasis could vary according to the circumstance in which and the objective for which the formula is used.

Though some scholars attempt to show that it is Acarya Nagarjuna that raised Pratityasamutpada to the status of th central philosophy of Buddhism. The present researcher has attempted to show that early Buddhism to considered it to be so. For example, the content of enlightenment is often described as the knowledge regarding Pratityasamutpada. All other doctrines are based on and explained according to Pratityasamutpada. Beside, the “Kaccanagotta Sutta” very clearly calls it the preaching by the middle (Majjhena dhamma) which means it is the most-important central teaching. It should also be remembered that in the “Mahahatthipadopama Sutta”, Paticcasamuppada is equated with the Dhamma, which means it is the essence, the crux of the Buddha’s teaching. However it has to be noted, that it is Acarya Nagarjuna who made it prominent as the central philosophy of Buddhism without limiting in the explanation of Dukkha as it was in early Buddhism.

Beside, one should acknowledge also the fact that in early Buddhist Suttas Patipada is used in the sense of the way, the path or the practice and ‘Majjhima patipada’ is identical with the Noble Eightfold Path. But it is Acarya Nagarjuna who brought into light that that it is Pratitymutapada, which is the most fundamental of the Buddha’s Teaching, that even it provides the philosophical basis for the practice. The credit for highlighting the true spirit of the Buddha’s teaching is solely due to Acarya Nagarjuna.

A chapter was denoted to the study of various meditational practices recommended in early Buddhism, that lead to the realization of Sunna. Special focus was laid on two suttas namely Cula-Sunnata and Maha-sunnata both of the Majjhimanikaya. These while showing that the Buddha emphasized internalization of the understanding of the voidness of everything describes also how this could be done. This chapter will be of interest to those who wish it understand how meditative practice could be utilized to personally experience the voidness of all phenomena.

A chapter was devoted to show that it is not only the canonical Sutta that speaks of Sunna/Sunnata, but there is ample reference to it is post-canonical texts such as the Visuddhimagga. This chapter also brings to light that the Pali tradition was not unaware about the development of the sunya concept that was taking place in other non-Theravada traditions.
The present researcher’s study made it clear that the concept of Nibbana/Nirvana both in early Buddhism and Madhyamaka are similar; both advocate that Nibbana/Nirvana can be realized by correcting the distorted vision, driving out all “views” (drsti) that distort the proper understanding of reality. Both teachings hold that the final knowledge refers to the understanding of the true nature of things. To proper understanding in early Buddhism, is to see things as Anicca (impermanent) Dukkha (non-satisfactory/suffering), and Anatta (no-soul, no substance or essence). According to Madhyamaka this knowledge consists of seeing everything as empty, void (Sunya) of a Sva-dhava (self-nature). From this it is clear that thought there is a difference in terminology , in spirit both early Buddhism and Madhyamaka, advocate the same thing. This is further established by the fact that the Buddha also on an occasions advices that, one in order to escape this cycle of birth and death should see everything as empty (Sunnato lokam avekkhassu).

The major difference the present researcher sees between early Buddhism and Madhyamaka in their approach to Sunya is that the former lay more emphasis on personal experians in realizing the emptiness (Sunnata) of all phenomena, while the later emphasizes on logic and reasoning leading to an intellectual comprehension of it. However, that does not mean that Madhyamaka is not stressing the importance of internalizing this knowledge. The present research is of the view that Acarya Nagarjuna’s use of logic and reason is due to circumstance of the time, and the purpose for which his work Mulamadhyamakakarika was composed. It was composed not as a guide to practice but as acritical response for realists and substantialists. Hence, the preponderance of logic and reason.

Through this the present researcher found more tangible evidence to agree with the view of that Acaraya Nagajuna was not trying to present any new teaching but was making a concerted effort to remind the scholarship of the time that it is deviating from the teaching of the Buddha. The two stanzas of salutation for the Buddha, at the beginning and the end of this book, (Mulamadhyamakakarika) very clearly shows that Acarya Nagarjuna was a great follower and admire of the Buddha, and that he was attempting to highlight the true teachings (Saddharma) of the Buddha.


Download at TinyPortal: The Concept of Emptiness in Pali Literature
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 04:59:42 PM by Johann »
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Offline Dhammañāṇa

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Re: [transcripting] The Concept of Emptiness in Pali Literature
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2013, 05:10:02 PM »
Werte Dhammafreunde,

Diese Werk ist ein sehr Traditionsverbindens und überaus segenreiches Werk und es wäre mehr als nur gut, es besser verfügbar zu machen und vielleicht sogar ins Deutsche zu übersetzen.

Erfreulicher Weise war ein Dhammika so nett und hat das pft über eine Texterkennung laufen lassen und mir eine DOCX Datei zukommen lassen. Da ich selbst über keine Mittel verfüge diese zu öffnen oder zu bearbeiten, wäre es schön, wenn dieses auch in allgemeinerem Format verfügbar wäre.

Vielleicht mag sich auch jemand der Überarbeitung der Schrift (pali) und der Fehler aus der automatischen Formatierung annehmen. Die Datei findet sich im Anhang:

 :-*
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Offline Dhammañāṇa

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Re: [transcripting] The Concept of Emptiness in Pali Literature
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2013, 11:14:01 AM »
Werte Dhammafreunde,

Unser werter Volker hat mir mitgeteilt, daß er sich darum annimmt. Aus irgend einem Grund, war ihm das posten hier nicht möglich  ::) und bis der Grund dafür gefunden ist, mag meine Nachricht hier den Zweck erfüllen.

Wenn jemand sich an der sicherlich umfangreichen Arbeit beteiligen möchte und Volker dabei unterstützen möchte, bitte mit Volker kurzschließen, um nicht Abschnitte vielleicht doppelt zu haben und für andere die Kraft ausgeht.

Gerne können Sie zur Info auch hier Bescheid geben und ich werde es gerne an Volker Weiterleiten, sollte die Kommunikation (aus technischen Gründen oder Gründen der Zugangsberechtigungen) nicht klappen.


Dear Dhammafriends,

Volker started to make a correction of the transcription. In the case you would like to join the work, it would be good to coordinate it directly with Volker or leave a message, so that we can forward it to Volker.


 :-*

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Re: [transcripting] The Concept of Emptiness in Pali Literature
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2013, 07:30:56 AM »
Werte Freunde,

hab mir erlaubt kurz beim werten Volker nachzufragen, wie es denn um die Digitalisierung sei. Freudig konnte ich erfahren, daß er sich gar versuchen möchte das Werk zu übersetzen. Also einfach Geduld hier würde ich sagen und wie gesagt, im Fragefall, einfach mit Volker in Verbindung setzen.

 :-*
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Offline Moritz

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Re: [transcripting] The Concept of Emptiness in Pali Literature
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2013, 03:18:21 PM »
Sadhu!

Das ist erfreulich, zu hören.

 :-*

Offline Dhammañāṇa

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Re: [transcripting] The Concept of Emptiness in Pali Literature
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2014, 10:15:25 AM »
Gut das ich noch den emilordner etwas aufräume. Habe ich da noch die erste digitalisierung vom werten Volker gefunden und bin mir nicht sicher ob ich das schon geteilt hatte.

Falles es jemand zum weiter bearbeiten verwenden möchte.

 _/\_
« Last Edit: June 08, 2015, 09:13:12 AM by Johann »
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