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Author Topic: A Bodhisttva is a member of the Sangha? Bodhisattva ein Sanghamitglied?  (Read 3085 times)

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Offline Johann

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Hier ein spezielles Here a special

Kann ein Bodhisttva ein Sanghamitglied sein?

Gestern vor dem Einschlafen ist mir diese knifflige und vielleicht provozierende "Frage" in den Geist gekommen. Wenn wir davon ausgehen, daß die Sangha aus den vier Paaren (den acht Personen) besteht, ist es mit großer Wahrscheinlichkeit nicht möglich, daß ein "klassischer" Bodhisattva (so wie es breit erzählt wird - einer der zum Wohle aller Wesen im Samsara verweilt) nie Teil der Sangha werden kann.
Nimmt man Bodhisatta - ein Wesen das nach Befreiung strebt -  ist er/sie im Gegensatz, schon mit diesem Streben als Mitglied der ersten Person (vorausgesetzt er/sie weiß wo nach er strebt) als Teil der noblen Sangha anzusehen.

Sicherlich Stoff für eine ausgiebige Diskussion und Stoff zum nachdenken. Freue mich über eure Gedanken und ev. Erklärungen dazu.


Is it possible that a Bodhisttva is a member of the Sangha?

Yesterday bevor I felt asleep a finicky and maybe provocing "question" arose in my mind. If we regard the Sangha containing the four pairs (the eight persons), it seems to be impossible that a classical Bodhisattva (like it is told broadly - someone who desires to dwell in Samsara for the well-being of all beings) might be part of the Sangha.
If we take the Bodhisatta - a Being which strives for liberation - he/she is in the opposite to the first idea within the desire for this already a member of the first person (assumed that he/she knows what he is striving for) and already part of the noble Sangha.

Of course stuff for a huge discussion and stuff to think about. Would be great if you share your thoughts and maybe also an explaining.

« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 01:03:19 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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The idea of "Bodhisattva Path" was coined by Maitreya-natha in his Bodhisattva-Bhumi, and then imported into Theravada by Dhammapala in his "Treatise on the Paramis".

So the person who follows such a path follows the Maitreya-natha, since Buddha never taught such things. "Bodhisattvism" has nothing to do with following the teaching of a Buddha.

"Bodhisattvas" are historically known to refuse any substantial development of wisdom, since this could make them stream-enterers, bound to achieve Nibbana in seven lives or less, and this wouldn't be sufficient for these "Bodhisattvas" to fulfill their nonsensical wows to save all beings.

Offline Johann

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The idea of "Bodhisattva Path" was coined by Maitreya-natha in his Bodhisattva-Bhumi, and then imported into Theravada by Dhammapala in his "Treatise on the Paramis".

So the person who follows such a path follows the Maitreya-natha, since Buddha never taught such things. "Bodhisattvism" has nothing to do with following the teaching of a Buddha.

"Bodhisattvas" are historically known to refuse any substantial development of wisdom, since this could make them stream-enterers, bound to achieve Nibbana in seven lives or less, and this wouldn't be sufficient for these "Bodhisattvas" to fulfill their nonsensical wows to save all beings.

Die Idee eine "Bodhisattva Pfades" wurde durch Matitreya-natha und seinem Bodhisattva-Bhumi gepräget und dann von Dhammapala mit seiner "Abhandlung über die Paramis" in den Theravada importiert.

Eine Person, die solch einem Pfad folgt, folgt dem Maitreya-natha Pfad, da Buddha niemals solche Dinge lehrte. "Bodhisattanismus" hat nicht mit dem folgen der Lehren Buddhas zu tun.

"Bodhisattvas" sind historisch bekannt, jede Art der handfesten Entwicklung von Weisheit abzulehnen, da dies sie zu Stromerreichern machen könnte und sie daran binden würde innerhalb von sieben Existenzen oder weniger Nibbana zu erreichen und dies wurde diesen Bodhisattvas nicht ausreichen, ihren Sinnloses Gelübte alle Wesen zu retten, zu erfüllen.


Danke für die geradlinige Antwort, würde ich auch so sehen, wenn gleich man etwas vorsichtig sein muß, da wir (der eine oder andere) in gewisser Weise auch alle noch Bodhisattvas sind und von der Welt noch nicht loslassen. Wir hätten ja wenig zu tun, unsere Sachen wären alle getan, wäre das nicht die liebe "Buddhanatur".

Ich denke, daß man das Thema etwas genauer behandeln muß, dreht sich ja heute im "Buddhismus" alles und fast jeder um das Bodhisattvatum.
Da ich mit den Worten und der Geschichte nicht so bekannt bin, was genau ist "Matitreya-natha", was ist „Bodhisattva-Bhumi“ (Bhumi meine ich zukennen, im Kambodschanischen gibt es das Wort Pum für Dorf oder Platz und bedeutet so etwas wie Versammlung), und wer ist "Dhammapala" und was ist seine "Abhandlung über die Paramis"?

Wenn wir den Bodhisattvaweg als eine Erkenntnisweg (siehe z.B. Wege zur Eintracht- sangha vatthu ), Weg der Einsicht und des lernens sehen, dann ist er ganz natürlich ein Weg den die ersten Person oder eine, die die erste Person anstrebt, durchzumachen hat und daher ganz bestimmt Anteil des buddhistischen Weges ist. Das Schaffen der Grundlagen durch parami-arbeit. Nicht jedem ist es in einer einzigen Existenz möglich den achtfachen Pfad direkt zu gehen, aber jedem die Grundlagen dafür zu verbessern.

Sicherlich kann man sich auch auf diesem Weg verlieren, aber ohne ihn gegangen zu sein, wird man den achtfachen Pfad wohl nicht finden.

"Das sind die zwei Weisen, die zur Eintracht führen: Die gute Weise, die hilfreich und zuträglich ist und die beste Weise, die zur Befreiung und zum Heile führt. Von diesen beiden Weisen schließt die letztere die erstere in sich, setzt sie voraus, kann ohne sie nicht bestehen."

Was genau ist nun der Unterschied zwischen Bodhisatta Pfad und Bodhisattva pfad?

Ich würde hier sogar mal behaupten, daß jeder, jeder, der noch Zweifel an Vinaya (= Weg zur Erfüllung der Paramis) hat, den heiligen Pfad noch nicht geht oder gehen kann ein Bodhisattva ist, den Bodhisattva Weg geht, und noch kein Schüler.


Thanks for the straight forward answer, I would also see it like that, but we need to be carefull a little as we (the one or other) are in some ways also Bodhisattvas and not able to let go of the world yet. We would have less to do, all things would have been done, would there be the beloved “Buddhanature”.

I guess it is nessesary to tread this issue more exactlly as today the „Buddhism“ turns nearly exclusively around „Bodhisattvanism“
As I am not so familiar with the words and history, what exactly is "Matitreya-natha", what is „Bodhisattva-Bhumi“ (I guess I can identify Bhumi, there is a Cambodian word “Pum” which is used for village or place, meaning something like assembling) and wo is "Dhammapala" and what his "Treatise on the Paramis"?

If we regard the Bodhisattva Path as a path of lerning and understanding (look for example Ways to benevolence - sangha vatthu , way of insight, than it is very naturally that the first person or the person who desires to gain the fist person, needs to go this way and with it, it is actually the Buddhist way. The creation of condition through paramis work. Not everybody is able to join the walk on the Noble Eightfold Path within the present existence, but everybody is able to better his conditions within this aspiration.

Of course one easy can also get lost on this way, but without having walked this way, one would not find to the Eignfold Path.

"There are the two kinds leading to benevolence: The good kind, which is helpful and conducive and the best kind, which leads to liberation and peace. Of this two kinds, the last includes the first, is dependend on it, can not exist without it. (quick free translation)

So what exactlly is the different between Bodhisatta path and Bodhisattva path?

I would even say that everybody, everybody who has still doubt on Vinaya (=way for fulfillment of paramis) or is not able to take the holy path as a whole is a Bodhisattva, walks the Bodhisattva path and not a real disciple yet.

« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 09:39:02 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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I'm not a Bodhisatta, since I won't be a Buddha.

I don't appreciate "Buddhanature" since this is a later invention which has nothing to do with Buddha's teaching.

Maitreya-natha was the author who invented the "Bodhisattva's Path":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitreya-n%C4%81tha
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/37687/Asanga

Dhammapala was a Theravadin commentator who borrowed in his work some parts of "Bodhisattva-Bhumi" by Maitreya-Natha:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/bodhi/wheel409.html

Buddha Gotama never taught to become a Bodhisatta - that would be nonsensical; he taught the way to cessation of suffering.

The word 'parami' starts to occut only in the later texts, such as Cariyapitaka and Buddhavamsa. Buddha himself never told to develop them. IMHO, it is simply unrealistic to transform personal qualities without samadhi and vipassana.

Offline Johann

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I'm not a Bodhisatta, since I won't be a Buddha.
Ich bin kein Bodhisatta, da ich kein Buddha werden würde.

Isn't one meaning, the "real" meaning of the word "Bodhisatta" a being that strives for awakening (bodhi)? From that point, I don't think that your are not a Bodhisatta, exept you would have already reached the path and tasted the fruit of awakening. As a member of the noble Sangha (8 persons), to come back to the OP question, it's from my opinion risky to say that it can include a Bodhisatta.

Ist nicht die wahre Bedeutung des Wortes "Bodhisatta" ein Wesen, das nach Erwachen (bodhi) strebt? Aus dieser sicht kann ich mir jetzt nicht vorstellen, daß du kein Bodhisatta bist, ausgenommen du hast bereits den Pfad erreicht und die Frucht des Erwachend gekostet. Als ein Mitglied der Noblen Sangha, um auf das eingehende Thema zurückzukommen, ist es aus meiner Sicht riskant zu meinen, das diese einen Bodhisatta beinhalten kann.



I don't appreciate "Buddhanature" since this is a later invention which has nothing to do with Buddha's teaching.

Ich schätze dieses "Buddhanatur" nicht, da es eine spätere Einbringung war, die nichts mit Buddhas Lehren zu tun hat.

Please don't get me wrong, it was really not about personal situations but a general discussion. Of course it was a little provoking.
To the point, whether we appreciate "Buddhanature" or not, in its subtle meaning it's actually the believe in something inherent and as long as we would not have gained the path - appreciate or not - we actually believe in this "Buddhanature", it's just that we give it a different name. Mostly "I ..."

Bitte versteh mich nicht falsch, es geht wirklich nicht um personliche Situationen aber um eine generelle Diskussion. Sicherlich war es etwas provozierend.
Zur Sache, ob wie nun "Buddhanatur" schätzen oder auch nicht, in seiner subtile Bedeutung ist es doch der Glaube an etwas innewohnendes und solange wir den Pfad nicht erreicht haben - ob nun geschätzt, oder nicht - glauben wir an diese "Buddhanature und es ist nur so, daß wir dem einen anderen Namen geben.  Meistens "Ich ..."




Maitreya-natha was the author who invented the "Bodhisattva's Path":

Maitreya-natha ist der Autor, der den "Bodhisattva Pfad" erfunden hat:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitreya-n%C4%81tha
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/37687/Asanga

Dhammapala was a Theravadin commentator who borrowed in his work some parts of "Bodhisattva-Bhumi" by Maitreya-Natha:

Dhammapala war ein theravadischer Kommentator, der sich Teile seiner Arbeit aus dem "Bodhisattva-Bhumi" von Maitreya-Natha geborgt hat.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/bodhi/wheel409.html

Thanks for the share, I will read it.

Buddha Gotama never taught to become a Bodhisatta - that would be nonsensical; he taught the way to cessation of suffering.

Buddha Gotama hat niemals gelehrt ein Bodhisatta zu werden, das wäre unlogisch. Er lehrte den Weg der Auflösung des Leidens.

Yes, of course, even I do not really know what he actually taught, it would not make much sense. It would be like if a father who has gone through hardship, teaches the son to go thought the same hardship even he already knows the easy way.

Ja sicher, auch wenn ich nicht wirklich weis, was Buddha nun tatsächlich gelehrt hat, würde das nicht viel Sinn machen. Es wäre, als ob ein Vater der durch viel Mühen gegangen ist, seinem Sohn lehren würde, durch die selben Mühen zu gehen, auch wenn er schon den leichten Weg weis.


The word 'parami' starts to occut only in the later texts, such as Cariyapitaka and Buddhavamsa. Buddha himself never told to develop them. IMHO, it is simply unrealistic to transform personal qualities without samadhi and vipassana.

Das Wort "parami" taucht erst in späteren Schriften, wie Cariyapitaka und Buddhavamsa auf. Buddha selbst erklärete nie diese zu entwickeln. Aus meiner Sicht, ist es einfach unrealistisch seine persönlichen Qulitäten ohne samadhi und vipassana zu transformieren.

It might be that the word "parami" is not mentioned in the texts, but if you change the word in conditions or prerequisites to gain the first little understanding or right view is the actually nearly the whole teaching especially for layman. One can try "samadhi" or "vipassana" for eons, if he has not developed the prerequisites. It will not easy be samma samadhi, of course it could be samadhi but still attached to the world. To be provoking again: "bodhisatta samadhi" to come back to the OP.

I guess it would be good to be not to fast. Its a question that moves the whole "Buddhist" world.

Maybe that is good for explaining (even its a later "development"):

Milindapañha 3.1.3. "Timely fighting" (I try to find a english version)

got it:


3. The king said: 'You told me, Nâgasena, that your renunciation was to the end that this sorrow might perish away, and no further sorrow might spring up 2.'

[66] 'Yes, that is so.'

'But is that renunciation brought about by previous effort, or to be striven after now, in this present time?'

The Elder replied: 'Effort is now concerned with what still remains to be done, former effort has accomplished what it had to do.'

'Give me an illustration 3.'

p. 102

'Now what do you think, O king? Is it when you feel thirst that you would set to work to have a well or an artificial lake dug out, with the intention of getting some water to drink?'

'Certainly not, Sir.'

'Just so, great king, is effort concerned now with what still remains to be done, former effort has accomplished what it had to do.'

'Give me a further illustration.'

'Now what do you think, O king? Is it when you feel hungry that you set to work to have fields ploughed and seed planted and crops reaped with the intention of getting some food to eat?'

'Certainly not, Sir.'

'Just so, great king, is effort concerned now with what still remains to be done, former effort has accomplished what it had to do.'

'Give me a further illustration.'

'Now what do you think, O king? Is it when the battle is set in array against you that you set to work to have a moat dug, and a rampart put up, and a watch tower built, and a stronghold formed, and stores of food collected? Is it then that you would have yourself taught the management of elephants, or horsemanship, or the use of the chariot and the bow, or the art of fencing?'

'Certainly not, Sir.'

'Just so, great king, is effort concerned now with what still remains to be done, former effort has accomplished what it had to do. For it has been thus said, O king, by the Blessed One:

"Betimes let each wise man work out
That which he sees to be his weal!
Not with the carter's mode of thought, but firm p. 103
Let him, with resolution, step right out.
As a carter who has left the smooth high road,
And turned to byways rough, broods ill at ease 1--
(Like him who hazards all at dice, and fails)--
So the weak mind who still neglects the good,
And follows after evil, grieves at heart,
When fallen into the power of death, as he,
The ruined gamester, in his hour of need 2."

[67] 'Very good, Nâgasena.

Es mag sein, daß das Wort "Parami" nicht in den Texten auftaucht, aber wenn wir das Wort mit dem Wort Voraussetzungen oder Grundlagen austauschen, um das erste kleine Verständnis zu bekommen oder rechte Sichtweise, ist es tatsächlich so, daß fast die gesamten Lehren davon handeln, speziell für Laien. Da kann einer für Eons sich in Samadhi oder Vipassana versuchen, wenn er die Grundlagen dafür nicht entwickelt hat. Es wird nicht leicht samma samadhi sein, sicher wird es samadhi sein, aber stets anhaftend an die Welt - um noch einmal Provozierend zu sein: "Bodhisatta samadhi"

Ich denke es ist gut nicht zu übereilig zu sein. Es ist eine Frage, die die ganze "buddhistische" Welt bewegt.

Vielleicht ist das ganz gut zur Erklärung (auch wenn es etwas später aufgekommen ist):


Quote from: www.palikanon.de

Mil. 3.1.3. Zeitiges Kämpfen

 

Der König sprach: "Du sagtest mir da, o Herr, eure Weltentsagung habe zum Ziele, dieses gegenwärtige Leiden eben schwinden und kein anderes (neues) Leiden mehr aufkommen zu lassen."

"Ja, o König, das ist das Ziel unserer Weltentsagung."

"Wie nun aber: ist dieses Ziel das Ergebnis früherer Anstrengung, oder hat man wohl, wenn die Zeit herangekommen ist, immer noch zu kämpfen?"

"Ist einmal die Zeit herangekommen, o König, so hat das Kämpfen keinen Zweck mehr; die frühere Anstrengung hat ja dann bereits ihren Zweck erfüllt."

"Erläutere mir dies!"

"Was meinst du, o König: wenn du Durst hast und Wasser zu trinken wünschtest, wirst du da wohl zu diesem Zwecke erst einen Brunnen oder eine Zisterne graben?"

"Gewiß nicht, o Herr!"

"Ebenso auch, o König, hat, sobald die Zeit erst einmal herangekommen ist, das Kämpfen keinen Zweck mehr; die frühere Anstrengung hat ja dann bereits ihren Zweck erfüllt."

"Gib mir ein weiteres Gleichnis!"

"Was meinst du, o König: wenn du Hunger hast und zu essen wünschest, wirst du da wohl zu diesem Zwecke es für nötig halten, erst das Feld zu pflügen, den Samen zu säen oder das Getreide herbeischaffen zu lassen?"

"Gewiß nicht, o Herr."

"Ebenso auch, o König, hat, sobald die Zeit erst einmal herangekommen ist, das Kämpfen keinen Zweck mehr; die frühere Anstrengung hat ja dann bereits ihren Zweck erfüllt."

"Gib mir noch ein weiteres Gleichnis!"

"Was meinst du, o König: wenn dir eine Schlacht bevorsteht, wirst du wohl erst dann Festungsgräben ziehen, Wälle aufwerfen, Verschanzungen und Warten errichten, Proviant herbeischaffen und damit anfangen, mit den Elefanten, Pferden und Streitwagen umgehen zu lernen und dich mit Schießen und Fechten vertraut zu machen?"

"Gewiß nicht, o Herr."

"Ebenso auch, o König, hat sobald die Zeit erst einmal heran gekommen ist, das Kämpfen keinen Zweck mehr; die frühere Anstrengung hat ja dann bereits ihren Zweck erfüllt. Auch der Erhabene, o König, sagt:

 

    Was als heilsam man erkannt hat,
    Das verrichte man beizeiten,
    Denke nicht wie manch ein Kärrner,
    Sondern kämpfe klug und stark.
         
    G'rade wie so mancher Kärrner,
    Der, den ebnen Weg verlassend,
    Holperig-schlechtem Pfade folgt,
    Klagt, wenn seine Achse bricht:
         
    So auch klagt, wer's Rechte flicht
    Und wess' Herz dem Bösen folgt,
    In des Todes Schlund geraten,
    Wie der Kärrner über seine Achse."

(S.2.23)

 

"Klug bist du, ehrwürdiger Nāgasena!"




« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 06:03:37 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags: Bodhisatta sangha 
 

Plauderbox

 

Johann

October 12, 2018, 04:13:16 PM
Good to see Nyom Norum.
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 10:38:10 AM
Maybe of support for lasting satifaction: Seeds of Becoming .
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 06:57:38 AM
When ever love arises, dislike will be it's end. Who ever seeks out for friends, will get his enemy. Why? Because not willing to leave home. May wanderer gus find the way to never return. Mudita

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:58 AM
Vandami.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:22 AM
Nevertheless my courage of active participation  has been fallen down. Anyway I hope to come time to time.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam khamata me bhante.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:37:11 AM
Okasa bhante,

I didn't accepted Dymitros invitation to start a Theravada forum, because I thought this forum is pure Theravada. Now I regret about it, yet think this forum is comparatively good.  I learnt many valuable things from you and grateful to you. Nevertheless my courage of active partici
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 02:20:29 AM
What ever one searches for, that he/she will find. Less are those seeing the nature of combined thing, leaving home and go beyond Maras domain.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:45:18 PM
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:39:12 PM
When one is born in outer regions ... your island has drifted away.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:30:00 PM
macchariya, a boarder hard to cross to the middle way, abounding home, sakayaditthi, doubt and rituals.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:33:02 PM
However much one say, West is West, East is East.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 02:28:29 PM
Where ever there is east, there is west. And vici versa. Where ever there is nama, there is rupa. Where ever one seeks for a home, there he will suffer.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:03:31 PM
West is West

gus

October 06, 2018, 09:56:42 AM
belief of kamma, gratitude, independence, honesty, devotion : These are hard to find in people
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:49:14 AM
Again, a latin proverb mit be useful: Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi , patisota is always harmful if not just one own defilements or having a proper stand to help. Sota is the virtue required to resist in borderlands.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:41:52 AM
If in a borderland it's better to simply serve and support the Sangha. It's not smart to seek for other householders to nurish on traced imperfections of something required to uphold, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 04:54:48 AM
Okasa, happy to hear such things reagarding kamma. Many monks I have met don't directly speak about kamma because they have been tired after practicing some years and now bit relaxed.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:17:26 AM
Such can be total kusala and total akusala or simply defuse. Set your mind right and be mindful, that nothing will be of harm for yourself and others.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:15:27 AM
There is nothing not permitted. Merits or demerits are the actors responsibility. One is full in charge of ones action in this Domain here, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 03:50:00 AM
Bhante, is it permitted to ask questions or post things on behalf of other/future people ?

gus

October 05, 2018, 09:19:32 AM
We have been advised like this:
"No matter however much monks reject you,
Never leave the place."
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 09:09:37 AM
It's good when wanderer gus takes a rest, turns to a lonly place, enjoys the merits done and find a good place for his mind and fixes possible open wholes when clear where he likes to go some hours later.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 08:59:03 AM
Wanderer Gus knows how foolish this statement is. That is not the way to get out of a hole.

gus

October 05, 2018, 08:42:59 AM
okasa,
falling down from a status is suffering.
So, if I could stay in the hell-being status from the beginning, then no suffering.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:33:20 AM
From a state of a young Bhikkhu equal tradition...to householder... ...asura (now) on the border to animal, peta, hell-state. It can go quick if not having firm nissaya.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:29:27 AM
Aniccam vatta samsara...

gus

October 05, 2018, 06:56:28 AM
Evolution:
Bhante subhuti =>
Upasaka gus =>
Deva gus =>
Asura gus.

In the future:
Asura gus =>
Peta gus =>
Animal gus =>
Hell-being gus ???

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:51:42 AM
Okasa, I think bhante thinks me as a patriot because of some content of my posts. But it is not.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 05:41:33 AM
What ever one likes to, not touched like the moon, does not mean to praise what is blameworthy and vici-versa and to have metta not to let people run into hell if ways can be pointed out. Yet other choices at least are their. Be quick, your island drifts away!

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:34:15 AM
Okasa,
As long as I don't do exactly what you say, I think I'll not be able to make you happy or satisfied.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 02:12:55 PM
If thinking that this is for sure, if delighting in believing that connected things are a refuge and give space to rest: one may do so. Ones own choice. When ever one stops to nurish inwardly, ouwardly path and fruits die. Good as well as bad.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:28:51 AM
If bhante didn't let the weak person to live in avatar/deva mode, then he will lose both openness and connection. Up to now I have secured at least the connection.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:22:24 AM
Yet I appreciate and pay vandana for your care and advice on openness.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:19:56 AM
Please forgive me  bhante if I have made you tired. I don't like to accumulate akusala by making a monk tired in expecting a naughty chicken to be a good duck.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam Khamtu me bhante!
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:07:06 AM
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:01:00 AM
Differnt asked "why is Bhante not happy, dwell not in outwardly seeming being not touched?" Because it would not only confirm and show sign of aggreement of unwise acts, but also very incompassionate and cruel. Also place for suspecting corrupt ways and invite others to follow the comfortable dwelli
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:54:12 AM
No one is able to make my person angry, which does not mean that he would not appear angry so to possible prevent from doing what is not conductive for liberation, even lead in lower states. Nothing to worry, but also no invitation to test it foolish since it could hurt one self and others.

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:46:39 AM
Okasa bhante, Isn't there at least single way to stay anonymous without making you angry?
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:33:12 AM
corr: "it's, the domain of the Noble Ones, is nobody's personal domain" there are no wards around fields for merits and no tickets to pay
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:29:31 AM
What ever Deva gus feels inspired. It's oneones personal domain and all giving is good in the distance of the brigh cool moon. One should not fear, should not be shy to do what is good and praised by the wise but be quick!

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:21:39 AM
Bhante, is that mean you don't like me to talk about higher subjects and like to talk about basics only?
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:02:12 AM
It would be more than good if teaching others a lot on the topic vandami (paying respect) and khamatu (asking for forgiviness) since unknown and not practiced here around this field of merits in compassion to former relatives, Deva gus.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:55:38 AM
...total no problem to dwell and lay down in the cool shadow to heal at all and no need to ask for pardon when intended for progressing and to get fit for the battles so hard to win.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:52:39 AM
But they would not feed them in ways which might look as nurishing relations for wordly sake directly, for people not understanding would think "look, he is herding, carry for his cattle, he wasts the gift of the land, the heritage of the Gems for his becoming and own gain. Understood? Total no prob
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:45:29 AM
Never would people of integrity send away pets, petas or sick, for they are not able to change for now but possible can gain of what they need to change.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:42:28 AM
If, just to think about, one lives deliberatly with sign showing a rejection of firm trust in kamma, one lives in nurishing the danger of falling into grave wrong views and give ways that others follow what is improper to do. Just to reflect. How ever wishing to do.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:36:03 AM
What ever one does, holds as refuge or abounds, either good or bad refuge, one does for one self. Ones own choices, ones own fruits, ones own limitations, hindrences.

gus

October 04, 2018, 09:28:15 AM
Khamatu me bhante!
My previous  post was this.
"Please forgive me and give birth to kindness ao as to let me live here anonymous "
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:21:35 AM
... doing so based on gratitude without just trading in giving, or out of duty in a relation one resits, one is able to get not only to the borders, but into Noble ones domain.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:19:27 AM
And to put much into such sacrifies of giving ones honor, ones dwelling, ones source of food (family), one possession (even intelectual), the Dhamma one has made his own

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