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Author Topic: CSCD Tipitaka khmer against Chun Nat prove reading  (Read 3273 times)

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Offline Johann

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CSCD Tipitaka khmer against Chun Nat prove reading
« on: January 21, 2017, 11:02:58 AM »

Aramika   *

Dieses neue Thema wurde  aus abgetrennten Beiträgen, ursprünglich in Norums question: How should I continue best?  ,  hier zu einem neuen eröffnen. Für ev. ergänzende Informationen zur Herkunft, sehen Sie bitte das Ursprugsthema ein. Anumodana!

The new topic here is made from one or more post from there Norums question: How should I continue best?  . For eventual additionally information to this new Topic, please visit also the Topic of origin. Anumodana!

[Original post:]


Do not let it disturbe much of you focus work Njom Norum

Sophorn , if inspired, it is actually long needed that the CSCD version given here for the Sangha and working puposes, will be first integrated like started hhre and secound read against the Chun Nat version, since nobody did it till now. Since our Version here in not meant as a public version of CSCD but actually for the Sanghas purposes, there are no problems to make remarks even edits, here.

The files have to be downloaded, incl. Attakata from http://tipitaka.org/khmr/ and integrated like suggested in the way of Tipitaka project .
It can also be printed out for those reading against.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 11:05:04 AM by Johann »
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Offline Johann

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Antw:CSCD Tipitaka khmer against Chun Nat prove reading
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2017, 09:02:53 AM »
Atma has seen that parts of the pali are different, for example in 7. Sekhiyakaṇḍaṃ, vin.pac.sk
Its totaly not clear where the Pali part of the Khmer Tipitaka has its origin. In Sekhiyakaṇḍaṃ also the way of sorting the overheads are different.
Thought that Chun Nat has participated on the Sanghameeting in Burma and the final work happened years after it, it would be interesting to know more about the work and history of the Khmer Tipitaka. Since people here usually can not really give references "They say... It is told..." it might be good to actually find a person who was directly involved.

Over all, it will be really a challenge to produce a 2.Edition of the Khmer Tipitaka and bring it into a good trace-able condition with the CSCD. Kein Honiglecken.

This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Norum

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Antw:CSCD Tipitaka khmer against Chun Nat prove reading
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2017, 10:23:52 PM »
give me time, Bhante.
I will come back with the document you may need.
 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Offline Johann

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Antw:CSCD Tipitaka khmer against Chun Nat prove reading
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2017, 11:42:42 AM »
One sad some days ago: "Coming late is better then never." Take your time, is not importand in the moment, only good to know that neither this nor that is for sure or wrong but should be carefully investigated.

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

8-11. Dann sagte der Gesegnete: "In dieser Weise, Bhikkhus, mag ein Bhikkhu sprechen: 'Angesicht zu Angesicht mit den Gesegneten, Mitbrüder, habe ich gehört und dieses gelernt: Dieses ist das Dhamma und die Disziplin, des Meisters Austeilung', oder: 'An einem Aufenthaltsort, von diesem und jenem Namen, lebt eine Gemeinschaft mit Älteren und Oberhäuptern. Angesicht zu Angesicht, mit dieser Gemeinschaft, habe ich das gehört und gelernt: 'Dieses ist das Dhamma und die Disziplin, des Meisters Austeilung', oder: 'An einem Aufenthaltsort, von diesem und jenem Namen, leben mehrere Bhikkhus, die Ältere sind, die belehrt sind, die ihre Wege vervollständigt haben, die Erhalter des Dhammas sind, der Disziplin und der Zusammenfassungen. Angesicht zu Angesicht, mit diesen Älteren, habe ich das gehört und gelernt: 'Dieses ist das Dhamma und die Disziplin, des Meisters Austeilung', oder: 'An einem Aufenthaltsort, von diesem und jenem Namen, lebt ein einzelner Bhikkhus, der ein Älterer ist, der belehrt ist, der seinen Weg vervollständigt hat, der ein Erhalter des Dhammas ist, der Disziplin und der Zusammenfassungen. Angesicht zu Angesicht, mit diesem Älteren, habe ich das gehört und gelernt: Dieses ist das Dhamma und die Disziplin, des Meisters Austeilung.'

"In solch einem Fall, Bhikkhus, ist die Erklärung von solch einem Bhikkhu, weder mit Zustimmung anzunehmen, noch zu verachten. Ohne zuzustimmen und ohne zu verachten, doch umsichtig die Sätze Wort für Wort lernend, sollte man diese in den Lehrreden nachspüren und sie mit der Disziplin nachprüfen. Wenn diese weder in den Lehrreden aufzuspüren sind, noch mit der Disziplin zu prüfen, muß man dieses rückschließen: 'Offensichtlich, dieses ist nicht des Gesegnetens Ausrufung, dieses wurde von diesem Bhikkhu missverstanden, oder von dieser Gemeinschaft, oder von diesen Älteren, oder von diesem Älteren.' In dieser Weise, Bhikkhus, solltet ihr es ablehnen. Aber wenn die betreffenden Sätze in den Lehrreden aufzuspüren sind und mit der Disziplin prüfbar, dann muß man dieses rückschließen: 'Offensichtlich, dieses ist des Gesegnetens Ausrufung, dieses wurde gut von diesem Bhikkhu verstanden, oder von dieser Gemeinschaft, oder von diesen Älteren, oder von diesem Älteren.' Und auf diese Weise, Bhikkhus, möget Ihr es auf dem ersten, zweite, dritten oder vierten Bezug akzeptieren. Dieses, Bhikkhu, sind die Vier Großen Bezüge, für Euch, zu erhalten."
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Norum

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Antw:CSCD Tipitaka khmer against Chun Nat prove reading
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2017, 02:41:35 PM »
Namaskara Bhante
Atma has seen that parts of the pali are different, for example in 7. Sekhiyakaṇḍaṃ, vin.pac.sk
Its totaly not clear where the Pali part of the Khmer Tipitaka has its origin. In Sekhiyakaṇḍaṃ also the way of sorting the overheads are different.
Thought that Chun Nat has participated on the Sanghameeting in Burma and the final work happened years after it, it would be interesting to know more about the work and history of the Khmer Tipitaka. Since people here usually can not really give references "They say... It is told..." it might be good to actually find a person who was directly involved.

Over all, it will be really a challenge to produce a 2.Edition of the Khmer Tipitaka and bring it into a good trace-able condition with the CSCD. Kein Honiglecken.

Well, Mahasanggharaja Chun Nat has join that meeting in Burma. At that time, the work on khmer tipitaka translating are done already and some parts of them has published as books. Because of many problem in Cambodia, they needed time and money to continue next Volume of books. The complete books published few years after Sanggayana in Bruma.
Pali khmer, was wrote / copied ca. 900years before beginning translating into khmer on December 1929.  All the translating finished in year 1957 and published the first 50 Volume. years after Chattasanggayana, the whole Tipitaka (complete version) was finished publishing on April 1969. 
If everyone could understand in khmer...

Offline Johann

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Antw:CSCD Tipitaka khmer against Chun Nat prove reading
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2017, 02:54:44 PM »
Well, it is possible that there was never an update to the Sanggayana (many tell that it was). Nevertheless, since the CSCD actually carries remarks where Khmer Pali should be different, Atma wonders with which version Mahasanggharaja Chun Nat went to the meeting in Burma.

Lets see in progress where the detail differents are and why they possible find no mention in the CSCD.
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Offline Norum

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Antw:CSCD Tipitaka khmer against Chun Nat prove reading
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2017, 03:04:13 PM »
yes on khmerpali also remark where are different from other languages. on pali side, Somdej Chun nat has proved with pali Burma, pali Sihala, and urope? sorry the last one, i forget it.

Offline Norum

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Antw:CSCD Tipitaka khmer against Chun Nat prove reading
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2017, 03:07:00 PM »
he also mentioned that, some languages focus on pali grammar but different from the original words.
maybe you can see this.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 03:12:58 PM by Norum »

Offline Johann

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Re: CSCD Tipitaka khmer against Chun Nat prove reading
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2018, 05:40:38 PM »
There is a lot work to do with the CSCD.

Once raised a question why CSCD-Khmer, wenn using the "am"-vocal in the middle comes to an "m" "ṃ" => modern Buddhists have taken the Sanskrit "ṃ" globally instead of Pali "ang" "ṁ", incl. all dictionaries... thats hard, but my person trust someone having participated on the last Sangha-yana.

It's not "Ahiṃsa" (=skr) it's "Ahiṅsa" and not "Saṃyutta" but "Saṅyutta Nikāya" The greatest Irony is then, that seldom one writtes "Saṃgha", instead of "Saṅgha". That's then the next "ng" noune with "am" actually "ang" confusion!

Wonder how many changes will be found...

How are you, Nyom Norum ? Howfar is the Khmer-Pali progressed, althought secondary maybe.

Ohh... my person's time to "save the world from "western/modern/communist" ignorance will be to less? *self-ironical...*

What ever one likes to grow into the good Dhamma, don't try it in Western/World and such as schools and universities. Some time might be left: Hurry! Or googleyana  ^-^

សំវេគ or សម្វេគ, saṅveg(a) or saṁvega, but not saṃvega, ui, ui...

But now it's clear, also why it took some decades and not 6 month with translatingsoftware...

How is Nyon Sudhammaviriyanī always saying: One needs a lot of patient.

Last message, by Nyom Norom, about 3 month ago, was "I don't feel well".
Wonder if Nyom Moritz or Sophorn ever tried to write Nyom.
Don't you all like to come to the land of Khema and sacrifice in good livelihood without the many dangers?
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 12:20:14 PM by Johann »
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Offline Johann

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Re: CSCD Tipitaka khmer against Chun Nat prove reading
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2018, 03:34:59 PM »
Ven. Thansissaro, just to mention it, because just seeing, Uses the "right" letter "ṁ" for the "vocal" " ំ" usually use in aniccent scripts in SE-Asia for "am"/"ang".
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Offline Johann

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Re: CSCD Tipitaka khmer against Chun Nat prove reading
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2018, 03:53:29 AM »
Since the source of the todays Khmer-Tipitaka is possible not clear, Atma, by sorting the Mahavagga, came accross that the pattern of structure, sections and so on, althought different numbering are most similar then the Thai-Edition and so it seems that both are near related.

It's known that old scripts in Thailand, before inventing new "own" script are written in Khmer script.

The introduction to the Translation work in the first book does not give much detail informatiin aside that cross-prove with all great editions, incl the European had been made.
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May all delight in observing this Sila-days inspirations of cleaning the mind.
 

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November 15, 2018, 01:49:25 PM
Mag da Freude mit guten Unternehmungen sein.
 

Roman

November 15, 2018, 01:46:28 PM
ich gehe jetzt wieder an die Arbeit. ich wünsche allen einen friedevollen Tag!
 

Roman

November 15, 2018, 01:35:30 PM
ich würde mich sehr freuen dass mal mit eigenen augen zu sehen..habe auch geplant nächstes Jahr nach Kambodscha zu kommen.
 

Johann

November 15, 2018, 01:14:27 PM
Thmo Duk , zur Zeit und schon gute Weile, Nyom Roman.
 

Roman

November 15, 2018, 01:07:51 PM
Hello Cheav Villa

 

Roman

November 15, 2018, 12:57:27 PM
Johann wo leben sie eigentlich? Khemakumara erzählte mir dass sie eine Höle bewohnen im aural gebirge, wie ich mich erinneren kann
 

Roman

November 15, 2018, 12:53:28 PM
Hallo Johann
 

Johann

November 15, 2018, 12:52:15 PM
Nyom Roman
 

Cheav Villa

November 15, 2018, 09:03:03 AM
Kuna Prah Ang  :D _/\_
 

Johann

November 15, 2018, 08:56:25 AM
Everything fine now with Nyoms settings? (Nyom Sokdina is Nyom Villas husband, right? My person is very ignorant in remembering names and relations.)
 

Kong Sokdina

November 15, 2018, 08:18:06 AM
Because I Kuna cant go sangham.net
after move Gmail to mail Green.
 

Kong Sokdina

November 15, 2018, 08:13:31 AM
Prah Ang
I kuna Villa using his Acct _/\_
 

Johann

November 15, 2018, 08:04:33 AM
Nyom Kong Sokdina.
 

Johann

November 15, 2018, 03:16:45 AM
A fruitful Sila-observance day for those obsering it today.
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 03:52:00 PM
Nyom Roman and Bhantes family will be surely happy and good that Bhante does not need to get much involved directly.
 

Cheav Villa

November 14, 2018, 03:40:07 PM
Kuna Prah Ang
 _/\_
The Kathina will be holding on Sat 17 and Sun 18. I kuna will meet both of Bhante Sreng and Bhante Khemearakuma to imform all about this, incl sharing much pictures.
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 03:14:40 PM
Good if Nyom could explain Bhante Sreng how to use the online monastery. Sadhu! A topic on Bhante Khemakumaras going forth can be found here . Good also if informing and share date of Kathina at Wat Ayom, and much pictures to share
 

Cheav Villa

November 14, 2018, 02:55:43 PM
Kuna Prah Ang,
As I kuna knowing that Prah Ang Khemareakuma
was staying in Ork Yum Pagoda.
This Saturday or Sunday I kuna would join the Kathin there, but now I kuna will send some about Bhante Khemareakuma via FB Prah Ang Sreng.
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 02:37:46 PM
Nyom Roman, Nyom Villa asked if she can help in something in regard of Bhante. Best when you talk in a new topic.
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 02:36:12 PM
Nyom Roman , Bhantes twin brother and his family asked how Bhante is. They miss him much and Bhante praisworthy focus on practice.
 

Cheav Villa

November 14, 2018, 02:27:20 PM
ព្រះអង្គ  _/\_
តើខ្ញុំកូណានឹងអាចជួយអ្វីខ្លះអ្វីអំពីព្រះអង្គ​ Khemareakuma?
 

Cheav Villa

November 14, 2018, 02:15:11 PM
ជំរាបសួរលោក​ Moritz
_/\_
 

Cheav Villa

November 14, 2018, 02:12:59 PM
កូណាមិនបានដឹងទេ ព្រះអង្គ​
 

Moritz

November 14, 2018, 02:12:36 PM
ជំរាបសួរ Cheav Villa _/\_
 

Moritz

November 14, 2018, 02:12:29 PM
Auf Wiedersehen, Roman. Ich schreibe dir noch zurück per E-Mail und mache hier am besten noch ein Thema auf für später.

_/\_
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 02:03:05 PM
Does Nyom Villa know Bhante Khemakumaras twin brother?
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 02:01:43 PM
Eine Reihe der neuen Mitglieder hier, Nyom Villa, Puthy... sind öfter in Kontakt und in den Klöstern Ayum und in Phnom Penh. Mag sein, daß jemand von den Upasikas kürzlich Kontakt hatte. Gut auch wenn Nyom guten Kontakt zu anderen Laien vor Ort Pflegt, hallo sagt...
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 02:01:26 PM
ich danke ihnen Johann und Motiz für die informationen und unterstützung.
 ich muss  jetzt weiter. ich  wünsche allen einen friedevolle tag
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 01:46:29 PM
Ein paar generelle und erklärende Worte zum Thema Unterstützen hier: If willing to help the child, the "poor" the new, give to it's master, father!
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 01:41:23 PM
Atma denkt, kann aber auch sein, daß er anderwo lernt. Einweiser ist die Person, die einen neuen Mönch einweist, und kommt einem Vater gleich. Bhante Indannano ist Bhantes Einweiser (Upajjhāya). (Hier übrigens das Thema zu "Unte
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 01:36:35 PM
Und wie geht es Ihnen Johann? wo sind sie untergebracht?
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 01:34:00 PM
Bhante Khemakumara ist jetzt in Takeo bei Bhante Indannanno soweit ich mitbekommen habe ja? welche bedeutung hat ein Einweiser?
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 01:31:47 PM
Siehe Mountain kuti-sāmaggī weekend, Thmo Duk, end of last Rain-month 2018. . Bhante ist, wenn im Wat (Kloster) Ayum , sicher gut umsorgt von allen Seiten.
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 01:27:18 PM
Seit seinem Mitziehen mit seinem Einweiser soweit nichts gehört und wird, denkt Atma, vertieft in der Praxis sein. Nächste Woche kommt Bhante Indannano mit seinen Schülern. Vielleicht kommt Bhante Khemakumara auch mit.
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 01:22:13 PM
wie geht es Khemakumara..dass ist sehr oft in meinen gedanken..ihn nicht direkt fragen zu können dass ist schwierig..nicht auf dem aktuellen zu sein..denke das liegt auch daran dass mich meine famile oft fragt..roman wie gehts marcel
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 01:16:20 PM
Ja Johann das werde ich meiner familie vorschlagen!
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 01:10:27 PM
Nyom Roman kann jederzeit seine Familie hier her einladen. Da mögen alle mehr Bezug zu dem Streben bekommen und können stets auch Fragen stellen.
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 01:06:07 PM
Da wart ein Forum nur für Nichtklösterliche eingerichtet, zu dem man mit gewisser Mitgliedschaft zugang hat. Mag sicher ein passender Rahmen sein für solches, um da entspannend beizutragen, oder Aramikabereich (Oberforum).

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