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Author Topic: Invitation of យ័ញ មិញ គឿង and wikipedia issue  (Read 1273 times)

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Offline Johann

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Atma invited យ័ញ មិញ គឿង (Yonj Minj Kreoung) and also told him about a Wiki-problem, Atma came across some days ago.

Quote from: to យ័ញ មិញ គឿង
Bhante,

the Sangha has received via sangham.net and my person the gift of digital written Tipitaka by generous Upasika Norum. Since this there a serval people involved to make the best out of the gift and to bring it in good and proper condition so that it can be carried, maintained on and shared by the Savaka Sangha possible easily.
Upasika Norum also told about you generous work on it before, incl. that of others.
If Bhante is interested to join and work further on it (deep respect and holding of the Vinaya nessesary), he is more than welcome to do so and it will be no problem to prepare Bhante good and given access.

Please let it be known.

Another thing is, that my person has seen that the text has been shared on wikipedia and most possible it has been done by Bhante or following his suggestion. My person likes to inform you that such is neither proper nor rightously possible. Neither from viewing common laws nor and more importand from a view of Vinaya and Dhamma. So if Bhante was not aware of it, it would be good to be made un-done. Some words you may find in the discussion of the wikipages: https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/ការពិភាក្សា:ព្រះត្រៃបិដក

To make it undone, Bhante or any body else would need to declare that it violates copyright as well ethical principles of Dhamma Vinaya, so that the "system" of wiki could act and possible make it disappeare again.

Best wishes, metta and mudita

Samana Johann
doing Forest monk in Cambodia
(You are welcome to visit sangham.net)
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Norum

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Antw:Invitation of យ័ញ មិញ គឿង and wikipedia issue
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2017, 02:48:47 PM »
The title Tipitaka in khmer-wikipedia just describe what is in pitaka. but yes, there are few people posted some small sutta on that page.
I also think that is not good to do so.

Offline Johann

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Antw:Invitation of យ័ញ មិញ គឿង and wikipedia issue
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2017, 03:07:26 PM »
Not a few, Njom, about 15 books, from a short view. May the Vinaya and some other parts. That is why Atma thought Bhante might know more about it.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Norum

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Antw:Invitation of យ័ញ មិញ គឿង and wikipedia issue
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2017, 03:16:00 PM »
I dont think it was Bhante មិញ គឿង at all. He has his own website too, he must know what he should do.
Maybe other people, who just want to share Buddhavacana and dont think about its disadvantage.

Offline Johann

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Re: Invitation of យ័ញ មិញ គឿង and wikipedia issue
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2018, 09:09:04 AM »
Anyone an idea of how to contact administration of wiki-khmer, since has become a usuall issue. Maybe Nyom Norum ?

It would be not good to support "stealing" and violating others therms of condition.

My person is also not sure if it is good that Nyom Norum does not really have informations of how to use and certain restrictions of the texts on her web site. Althought copyright does not require such notes, most Cambodians are not aware of the issue in regard of common laws and not to speak about kammic effects of taking of what is not given or derive the owner in what ever way from his/her possession.

Maybe good if adding such.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 01:01:55 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: Invitation of យ័ញ មិញ គឿង and wikipedia issue
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2018, 04:13:24 PM »
My person could receive kind and obligated advice from a Wikimedia-Member.

As it seems, wiki-khmer, is total out of any maintaince. Maybe also for the future and others interesting and of help.

Quote from: Johann via email
Valued Mrs. X,

Sadhu! (Expression of approve of a skillful / wholesome action) and thanks "representative" for those helped!

My person has added a remark here https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat and hpoes his "alien" kind will be not to much of a hindrence to get possible certain things solved, or better well done for now.

It's generally not really the sphere, in all aspects, where it is proper for my person to act.


Samana Johann



Quote from: Respons by Mrs X

Actually, I was able to check quickly, and it doesn't look like those users are active.
Your best shot is at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat, clarifying the detail that all sysops there are inactive and that's why you're requesting external help.
(In case I got the page wrong, others will point you to the correct one.)

X

On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 1:33 PM,
Hi,
you can find a list of sysops of that wiki at https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/ពិសេស:បញ្ជីឈ្មោះអ្នកប្រើប្រាស់?username=&group=sysop&wpsubmit=&wpFormIdentifier=mw-listusers-form&limit=50 .
I recommend you start contacting the ones who are also bureaucrats, as they are more likely to be active.
You can do so by leaving a message on each discussion page of theirs, using the "talk" links.

Best,
X
Quote from: Johann to a certain Wikimedia-member
On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 1:17 PM,
Valued Mrs X,

pardon the unrequested approach at first place. My person is currently searching after Administrators on the Khmer Wiki, in regard of copyright issues. While searching my person came across your person and thought that X might have an idea of how to find one or how to best solve issues on a seemingly not very good and careless maintained wikipage.

If she has any idea or connection, it would be good to gain a share.

Best wishes, and much success for your good undertakings.

Samana Johann

This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: Invitation of យ័ញ មិញ គឿង and wikipedia issue
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2018, 06:33:37 PM »
It should not be seen as recommendation (since there are better ways and places for sacrifies) but if Nyom Norum has the needed authority or independency, she would be sure welcome to request such as administration of the wiki-pages, what is of course, if, only good for Dhammic pages.

One might follow the discussion and issue, in generally, here:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat#Administration_of_Khmer-wiki_pages

Quote
The local kmwiki administrators are listed here, this includes 2 bureaucrats that appear to be inactive for 2 years. Is there an active group of editors that could recommend new bureaucrats/admins? — xaosflux Talk 15:00, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

If there are active users, one or several of them can of course become admins. See SRP. Other than that, you can put requests for administrative actions on SRM. --MF-W 16:13, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

(One might know, that such as the wiki idea, is generally something total utopian in this sphere, for khmer language, yet education would be of course of very needed help, from my persons view, but the notion of Utopia counts generally, as my persons view and investigations results, in regard of wiki, with its communal ideals and objectives, for a longer lasting good.)

In regard of possible removing the content, if one might think to be of assistance, also the kind advice/hint, by wikimedia-member X

Quote from: Johann
Sadhu again for Mrs X fine observation, care and sense for feeling obligated.

May person follow the hint as far as possible for now
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Steward_requests/Miscellaneous#Improper_content_on_Khmer-Wiki

Samana Johann


Quote from: mrs x

I believe one user is recommending taking the issue to the attention of the stewards: it's what the "SRM" link at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat#Administration_of_Khmer-wiki_pages is about.

Regards,
X
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 07:20:04 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: Invitation of យ័ញ មិញ គឿង and wikipedia issue
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2018, 02:18:09 PM »
For information, Nyom Norum

Quote from: user page: https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/ការពិភាក្សារបស់អ្នកប្រើប្រាស់:Holder
Quote from: Johann
Willkommen im Land der Khmer, Hr. Holder. Kam Hr. Holder auf dieses https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat#Administration_of_Khmer-wiki_pages hinauf, oder vielleicht ein glücklicher "Zufall"? Samana Johann --សមណៈយុហាន់ (ការពិភាក្សា) ម៉ោង០៤:១៨ ថ្ងៃច័ន្ទ ទី១៥ ខែមករា ឆ្នាំ២០១៨ (UTC)

Quote from: Hr. Holder
Hi. I indeed came via this link. You have deleted the content of several articles because of copyright-violation. Can you give me a link to the website where the text have been pasted from. Then I can delete these articles. Best regards. --Holder (ការពិភាក្សា) ម៉ោង០៤:៣៣ ថ្ងៃច័ន្ទ ទី១៥ ខែមករា ឆ្នាំ២០១៨ (UTC)

Quote from: Johann
Sorry for late reply. Upasaka Norum currentl makes a description, she lives in Germany. Her German based webpage: http://chhouk-krohom.de Here descriptions have been given to the Sangha (community of monks) of the four directions via sangham.net where a small project is lanched to impove it. Owner, technical (e.g. wordily law), is the community of monks of Cambidia, in regard of the physical books. The content could be also have been copied from sangham.net: http://sangham.net/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item390 , recenty my person was contacted via email: "

Quote from: via email from Vantharith to Johann
Dear Venerable Samana,
Thanks for your email and reach out to us regarding the Khmer Tipitaka. We are now discussing internally and will get back to you sometime next week. Thanks,
Vantharith (maybe you have contact with her)

Sadhu for holders care, obligations and sacrifies and may there be always generosity to help to build up a good base here. If there are questions, because not really conected to this enviroment here, feel free and invited to use sangham.net
Best blessings for all of Holders good undertakings.

Quote from: Hr. Holder
I've now deleted the articles which probably have been copyright violations. Are there more of such articles? Best regards. --Holder (ការពិភាក្សា) ម៉ោង១៣:១៣ ថ្ងៃព្រហស្បតិ៍ ទី១៨ ខែមករា ឆ្នាំ២០១៨ (UTC)
Quote from: Johann
Since there is a lot of work behind the structer, it's maybe possible to not always delete all but just the copy pasted content? And since, when people see "missing", they will simple paste it into again (there are no admins here), maybe a info "do not copy and past!!" would be good to place instead. My person does not think that users here can trace issues and the system.

Yes, there are similar articels. Most ever end-article of this structer there: https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/ព្រះត្រៃបិដក (which is about the 110 books) only a small amout have been deleted.
Content mostly has this § signs [៣៤] like this page: https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/បារាជិកកណ្ឌ​សិក្ខាបទ​ទី_១ and so on... if not from the source in this issue the often from other books. In this case, if there is a technical possibility to check all pages under the category Buddhism (https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/ព្រះពុទ្ធសាសនា) against Upasika Norums website, copy past content would be found, otherwise one has to check all pages manual within this category
Generally the most content on Buddhism is such, but again, if simply deleting all with pasted content, a lot of work get's lost and there will be hardly someone taking on it. So it can be very destructive. It would be good to have a native helper. Maybe contact Nyom Vantharith (vantharith.oum -at- gmail.....com) a topic on sangham.net can be found here http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,7816.msg11071.html#msg11071
May it be understood, that my person walks on the "edge" even till here and it is not proper to get involved in lay peoples issues. How ever good they might be or not --សមណៈយុហាន់ (ការពិភាក្សា) ម៉ោង១៣:៤៣ ថ្ងៃព្រហស្បតិ៍ ទី១៨ ខែមករា ឆ្នាំ២០១៨ (UTC)

Quote from: Antwort via email an Nyom Vantharith
Good to hear and mudita, Nyom Srey Vantharith.

Not really needed to come back to my person. It's a matter of giving advice of what is good and proper for ones long time benefit and that of many, if respecting the Buddha, The Dhamma and the good following Sangha , putting conducts always over mostly defiled desires in regarding the rightousness and law of cause and effect.

What you ever one does, to that will he/she fall.

May the advices be heard and may being be able to follow the wise against the grain.

Samana Johann



Oh, just to contribute to your discussion:

- Content put on wiki becomes possession of wiki: how can one give the tipitaka to a company? Take it away from the Sangha?

- Content given, must be/is free to modify, that means everybody can modify as he/she wishes. The Buddha, the Sangha, the disciples would not agree that the Dhamma is changed.

- Content given to wiki must be one own so that it can be given: Not only that the owner is the Sangha, in this case there is an author (again the Sangha) and there are privat owners of the discription who gave it to the Sangha. And the content was even from a legal view illegal copy and paste.

- Content must be free to be commercial, for sale: that is hardly against basic right view and the economy of Dhamma and generosity, meaning the end of Dhamma-Dana.

So on what ever level it is viewed, it's actually "stealing" to put Buddha Dhamma into this enviroment. Of course links and own explainings (based on references, which are generally very rare) might be no problem at all.

If it should be that a monk takes on to write in such an enviroment, be sure that it might be for the most a violation of his precepts and in regard of stealing even a heavy downfall violation making him to be no more seen as monk right after the deed, if being aware of his act, ignoring that it is Sangha or others property.

- Wiki, furthermore, is based on a "communist" ideology, that means that it does not regard authority (where ever not forced), elders, parents, teacher, wise. One generally intent of communist idealogy is to deprive owner, private owner, step by step from their possession and make it to community possession. "Nice thought" as long not your possession is taken, or? So generally most views of wiki go straight against right view and old Khmer tradition. It not wishing to give ground for another broad "communist" ideology are and feed such, it would be good to seek ways to act and build up more Khmer (khema: land or person at peace)

May that makes the importance in regard of Buddha Dhamma on Wiki more understandable. It's not a proper place for it at all and sacrifies, if even, are of very low benefit. May it be of conductive use for your discussion so that you may act either wise or in trust/faith of the wise and elder.

Samana Johann

Quote from: email from Johann to Nyom Vantharith
Maybe Nyom Vantharith can coordinate the issue with mr. Holder, since wiki is generally very strict in copy right issues an administrator are very quick in deleting if such is traced.

https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/ការពិភាក្សារបស់អ្នកប្រើប្រាស់:Holder

It would be not good if much of work of structur and writing would get lost. So maybe you choose to cooperate in this issues.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 03:06:03 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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Moritz
 

Administration

March 21, 2018, 03:42:55 PM
Sadhu!
 

Marcel

March 21, 2018, 03:32:47 PM
 :-* mögen sie alle noch in diesem leben das herz von avijja befreien!!! :-*
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 05:20:12 AM
This "wiki"-like backup tool is meant as a outwardy insurance that one does not be afraid that anything possible good can be desroyed or made bad while looking for cleaning it. So worry at all, kamma does not dissapear. No need to fear to make good deeds, knowing that.
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 04:03:35 AM
And there is no intention to just make a museum out of a working and concentration camp, since the Dhamma can not be understood by just looking on forms but by learning and experiance skillful deeds.
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 04:00:47 AM
Post-history: http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,1164.0.html (but there is no notification system). My person uses to make a @mention , off topic "/me" in the OP.
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 03:49:28 AM
Or to simply make a new post. No need to be shy in doing good things. It's not a museum, it's a working and concentration place. Mudita.
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 03:47:57 AM
There is such as a "wiki" backup function in all posts, Nyom Danilo. Good is to use the mention option, at the places where making changes @Johann , that it gets not "lost".
 

Danilo

March 19, 2018, 03:02:46 AM
I have a backup of the original post in any case. I might review the second post next time. Very insightful teaching. _/\_
 

Danilo

March 19, 2018, 03:01:35 AM
I've recently fixed many words and sentences of the first post of the thread "Debts, but to whom?". It take me some time trying to figure out the meaning of some sentences. So it would be good if Bhante could check if the original intended meaning of the post still intact. I have a backup of the ori
 

Danilo

March 19, 2018, 01:57:28 AM
_/\_ _/\_ _/\_

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