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by gus
[October 06, 2018, 01:13:54 PM]

[October 06, 2018, 11:43:45 AM]

Author Topic: Invitation of យ័ញ មិញ គឿង and wikipedia issue  (Read 1980 times)

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Offline Johann

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Atma invited យ័ញ មិញ គឿង (Yonj Minj Kreoung) and also told him about a Wiki-problem, Atma came across some days ago.

Quote from: to យ័ញ មិញ គឿង
Bhante,

the Sangha has received via sangham.net and my person the gift of digital written Tipitaka by generous Upasika Norum. Since this there a serval people involved to make the best out of the gift and to bring it in good and proper condition so that it can be carried, maintained on and shared by the Savaka Sangha possible easily.
Upasika Norum also told about you generous work on it before, incl. that of others.
If Bhante is interested to join and work further on it (deep respect and holding of the Vinaya nessesary), he is more than welcome to do so and it will be no problem to prepare Bhante good and given access.

Please let it be known.

Another thing is, that my person has seen that the text has been shared on wikipedia and most possible it has been done by Bhante or following his suggestion. My person likes to inform you that such is neither proper nor rightously possible. Neither from viewing common laws nor and more importand from a view of Vinaya and Dhamma. So if Bhante was not aware of it, it would be good to be made un-done. Some words you may find in the discussion of the wikipages: https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/ការពិភាក្សា:ព្រះត្រៃបិដក

To make it undone, Bhante or any body else would need to declare that it violates copyright as well ethical principles of Dhamma Vinaya, so that the "system" of wiki could act and possible make it disappeare again.

Best wishes, metta and mudita

Samana Johann
doing Forest monk in Cambodia
(You are welcome to visit sangham.net)
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Norum

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Antw:Invitation of យ័ញ មិញ គឿង and wikipedia issue
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2017, 02:48:47 PM »
The title Tipitaka in khmer-wikipedia just describe what is in pitaka. but yes, there are few people posted some small sutta on that page.
I also think that is not good to do so.

Offline Johann

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Antw:Invitation of យ័ញ មិញ គឿង and wikipedia issue
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2017, 03:07:26 PM »
Not a few, Njom, about 15 books, from a short view. May the Vinaya and some other parts. That is why Atma thought Bhante might know more about it.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Norum

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Antw:Invitation of យ័ញ មិញ គឿង and wikipedia issue
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2017, 03:16:00 PM »
I dont think it was Bhante មិញ គឿង at all. He has his own website too, he must know what he should do.
Maybe other people, who just want to share Buddhavacana and dont think about its disadvantage.

Offline Johann

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Re: Invitation of យ័ញ មិញ គឿង and wikipedia issue
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2018, 09:09:04 AM »
Anyone an idea of how to contact administration of wiki-khmer, since has become a usuall issue. Maybe Nyom Norum ?

It would be not good to support "stealing" and violating others therms of condition.

My person is also not sure if it is good that Nyom Norum does not really have informations of how to use and certain restrictions of the texts on her web site. Althought copyright does not require such notes, most Cambodians are not aware of the issue in regard of common laws and not to speak about kammic effects of taking of what is not given or derive the owner in what ever way from his/her possession.

Maybe good if adding such.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 01:01:55 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: Invitation of យ័ញ មិញ គឿង and wikipedia issue
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2018, 04:13:24 PM »
My person could receive kind and obligated advice from a Wikimedia-Member.

As it seems, wiki-khmer, is total out of any maintaince. Maybe also for the future and others interesting and of help.

Quote from: Johann via email
Valued Mrs. X,

Sadhu! (Expression of approve of a skillful / wholesome action) and thanks "representative" for those helped!

My person has added a remark here https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat and hpoes his "alien" kind will be not to much of a hindrence to get possible certain things solved, or better well done for now.

It's generally not really the sphere, in all aspects, where it is proper for my person to act.


Samana Johann



Quote from: Respons by Mrs X

Actually, I was able to check quickly, and it doesn't look like those users are active.
Your best shot is at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat, clarifying the detail that all sysops there are inactive and that's why you're requesting external help.
(In case I got the page wrong, others will point you to the correct one.)

X

On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 1:33 PM,
Hi,
you can find a list of sysops of that wiki at https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/ពិសេស:បញ្ជីឈ្មោះអ្នកប្រើប្រាស់?username=&group=sysop&wpsubmit=&wpFormIdentifier=mw-listusers-form&limit=50 .
I recommend you start contacting the ones who are also bureaucrats, as they are more likely to be active.
You can do so by leaving a message on each discussion page of theirs, using the "talk" links.

Best,
X
Quote from: Johann to a certain Wikimedia-member
On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 1:17 PM,
Valued Mrs X,

pardon the unrequested approach at first place. My person is currently searching after Administrators on the Khmer Wiki, in regard of copyright issues. While searching my person came across your person and thought that X might have an idea of how to find one or how to best solve issues on a seemingly not very good and careless maintained wikipage.

If she has any idea or connection, it would be good to gain a share.

Best wishes, and much success for your good undertakings.

Samana Johann

This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: Invitation of យ័ញ មិញ គឿង and wikipedia issue
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2018, 06:33:37 PM »
It should not be seen as recommendation (since there are better ways and places for sacrifies) but if Nyom Norum has the needed authority or independency, she would be sure welcome to request such as administration of the wiki-pages, what is of course, if, only good for Dhammic pages.

One might follow the discussion and issue, in generally, here:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat#Administration_of_Khmer-wiki_pages

Quote
The local kmwiki administrators are listed here, this includes 2 bureaucrats that appear to be inactive for 2 years. Is there an active group of editors that could recommend new bureaucrats/admins? — xaosflux Talk 15:00, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

If there are active users, one or several of them can of course become admins. See SRP. Other than that, you can put requests for administrative actions on SRM. --MF-W 16:13, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

(One might know, that such as the wiki idea, is generally something total utopian in this sphere, for khmer language, yet education would be of course of very needed help, from my persons view, but the notion of Utopia counts generally, as my persons view and investigations results, in regard of wiki, with its communal ideals and objectives, for a longer lasting good.)

In regard of possible removing the content, if one might think to be of assistance, also the kind advice/hint, by wikimedia-member X

Quote from: Johann
Sadhu again for Mrs X fine observation, care and sense for feeling obligated.

May person follow the hint as far as possible for now
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Steward_requests/Miscellaneous#Improper_content_on_Khmer-Wiki

Samana Johann


Quote from: mrs x

I believe one user is recommending taking the issue to the attention of the stewards: it's what the "SRM" link at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat#Administration_of_Khmer-wiki_pages is about.

Regards,
X
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 07:20:04 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: Invitation of យ័ញ មិញ គឿង and wikipedia issue
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2018, 02:18:09 PM »
For information, Nyom Norum

Quote from: user page: https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/ការពិភាក្សារបស់អ្នកប្រើប្រាស់:Holder
Quote from: Johann
Willkommen im Land der Khmer, Hr. Holder. Kam Hr. Holder auf dieses https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat#Administration_of_Khmer-wiki_pages hinauf, oder vielleicht ein glücklicher "Zufall"? Samana Johann --សមណៈយុហាន់ (ការពិភាក្សា) ម៉ោង០៤:១៨ ថ្ងៃច័ន្ទ ទី១៥ ខែមករា ឆ្នាំ២០១៨ (UTC)

Quote from: Hr. Holder
Hi. I indeed came via this link. You have deleted the content of several articles because of copyright-violation. Can you give me a link to the website where the text have been pasted from. Then I can delete these articles. Best regards. --Holder (ការពិភាក្សា) ម៉ោង០៤:៣៣ ថ្ងៃច័ន្ទ ទី១៥ ខែមករា ឆ្នាំ២០១៨ (UTC)

Quote from: Johann
Sorry for late reply. Upasaka Norum currentl makes a description, she lives in Germany. Her German based webpage: http://chhouk-krohom.de Here descriptions have been given to the Sangha (community of monks) of the four directions via sangham.net where a small project is lanched to impove it. Owner, technical (e.g. wordily law), is the community of monks of Cambidia, in regard of the physical books. The content could be also have been copied from sangham.net: http://sangham.net/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item390 , recenty my person was contacted via email: "

Quote from: via email from Vantharith to Johann
Dear Venerable Samana,
Thanks for your email and reach out to us regarding the Khmer Tipitaka. We are now discussing internally and will get back to you sometime next week. Thanks,
Vantharith (maybe you have contact with her)

Sadhu for holders care, obligations and sacrifies and may there be always generosity to help to build up a good base here. If there are questions, because not really conected to this enviroment here, feel free and invited to use sangham.net
Best blessings for all of Holders good undertakings.

Quote from: Hr. Holder
I've now deleted the articles which probably have been copyright violations. Are there more of such articles? Best regards. --Holder (ការពិភាក្សា) ម៉ោង១៣:១៣ ថ្ងៃព្រហស្បតិ៍ ទី១៨ ខែមករា ឆ្នាំ២០១៨ (UTC)
Quote from: Johann
Since there is a lot of work behind the structer, it's maybe possible to not always delete all but just the copy pasted content? And since, when people see "missing", they will simple paste it into again (there are no admins here), maybe a info "do not copy and past!!" would be good to place instead. My person does not think that users here can trace issues and the system.

Yes, there are similar articels. Most ever end-article of this structer there: https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/ព្រះត្រៃបិដក (which is about the 110 books) only a small amout have been deleted.
Content mostly has this § signs [៣៤] like this page: https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/បារាជិកកណ្ឌ​សិក្ខាបទ​ទី_១ and so on... if not from the source in this issue the often from other books. In this case, if there is a technical possibility to check all pages under the category Buddhism (https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/ព្រះពុទ្ធសាសនា) against Upasika Norums website, copy past content would be found, otherwise one has to check all pages manual within this category
Generally the most content on Buddhism is such, but again, if simply deleting all with pasted content, a lot of work get's lost and there will be hardly someone taking on it. So it can be very destructive. It would be good to have a native helper. Maybe contact Nyom Vantharith (vantharith.oum -at- gmail.....com) a topic on sangham.net can be found here http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,7816.msg11071.html#msg11071
May it be understood, that my person walks on the "edge" even till here and it is not proper to get involved in lay peoples issues. How ever good they might be or not --សមណៈយុហាន់ (ការពិភាក្សា) ម៉ោង១៣:៤៣ ថ្ងៃព្រហស្បតិ៍ ទី១៨ ខែមករា ឆ្នាំ២០១៨ (UTC)

Quote from: Antwort via email an Nyom Vantharith
Good to hear and mudita, Nyom Srey Vantharith.

Not really needed to come back to my person. It's a matter of giving advice of what is good and proper for ones long time benefit and that of many, if respecting the Buddha, The Dhamma and the good following Sangha , putting conducts always over mostly defiled desires in regarding the rightousness and law of cause and effect.

What you ever one does, to that will he/she fall.

May the advices be heard and may being be able to follow the wise against the grain.

Samana Johann



Oh, just to contribute to your discussion:

- Content put on wiki becomes possession of wiki: how can one give the tipitaka to a company? Take it away from the Sangha?

- Content given, must be/is free to modify, that means everybody can modify as he/she wishes. The Buddha, the Sangha, the disciples would not agree that the Dhamma is changed.

- Content given to wiki must be one own so that it can be given: Not only that the owner is the Sangha, in this case there is an author (again the Sangha) and there are privat owners of the discription who gave it to the Sangha. And the content was even from a legal view illegal copy and paste.

- Content must be free to be commercial, for sale: that is hardly against basic right view and the economy of Dhamma and generosity, meaning the end of Dhamma-Dana.

So on what ever level it is viewed, it's actually "stealing" to put Buddha Dhamma into this enviroment. Of course links and own explainings (based on references, which are generally very rare) might be no problem at all.

If it should be that a monk takes on to write in such an enviroment, be sure that it might be for the most a violation of his precepts and in regard of stealing even a heavy downfall violation making him to be no more seen as monk right after the deed, if being aware of his act, ignoring that it is Sangha or others property.

- Wiki, furthermore, is based on a "communist" ideology, that means that it does not regard authority (where ever not forced), elders, parents, teacher, wise. One generally intent of communist idealogy is to deprive owner, private owner, step by step from their possession and make it to community possession. "Nice thought" as long not your possession is taken, or? So generally most views of wiki go straight against right view and old Khmer tradition. It not wishing to give ground for another broad "communist" ideology are and feed such, it would be good to seek ways to act and build up more Khmer (khema: land or person at peace)

May that makes the importance in regard of Buddha Dhamma on Wiki more understandable. It's not a proper place for it at all and sacrifies, if even, are of very low benefit. May it be of conductive use for your discussion so that you may act either wise or in trust/faith of the wise and elder.

Samana Johann

Quote from: email from Johann to Nyom Vantharith
Maybe Nyom Vantharith can coordinate the issue with mr. Holder, since wiki is generally very strict in copy right issues an administrator are very quick in deleting if such is traced.

https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/ការពិភាក្សារបស់អ្នកប្រើប្រាស់:Holder

It would be not good if much of work of structur and writing would get lost. So maybe you choose to cooperate in this issues.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 03:06:03 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Moritz

October 22, 2018, 06:42:41 PM
May Bhante have a peaceful evening/night.
_/\_
 

Johann

October 22, 2018, 05:49:48 PM
Nyom Moritz
 

Moritz

October 22, 2018, 05:48:48 PM
Vandami Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

October 22, 2018, 09:00:29 AM
Nyom Roman.
 

Johann

October 20, 2018, 02:52:14 AM
Atma leaves for alms round, Nyom Villa.
 

Johann

October 17, 2018, 06:01:23 PM
May all spend meritorious/good and higher last hours of this Sila-day.

Sokh chomreoun (may well being be developed [by everyone])
 

Johann

October 16, 2018, 03:15:10 PM
Nyom Roman.
 

Johann

October 12, 2018, 04:13:16 PM
Good to see Nyom Norum.
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 10:38:10 AM
Maybe of support for lasting satifaction: Seeds of Becoming .
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 06:57:38 AM
When ever love arises, dislike will be it's end. Who ever seeks out for friends, will get his enemy. Why? Because not willing to leave home. May wanderer gus find the way to never return. Mudita

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:58 AM
Vandami.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:22 AM
Nevertheless my courage of active participation  has been fallen down. Anyway I hope to come time to time.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam khamata me bhante.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:37:11 AM
Okasa bhante,

I didn't accepted Dymitros invitation to start a Theravada forum, because I thought this forum is pure Theravada. Now I regret about it, yet think this forum is comparatively good.  I learnt many valuable things from you and grateful to you. Nevertheless my courage of active partici
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 02:20:29 AM
What ever one searches for, that he/she will find. Less are those seeing the nature of combined thing, leaving home and go beyond Maras domain.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:45:18 PM
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:39:12 PM
When one is born in outer regions ... your island has drifted away.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:30:00 PM
macchariya, a boarder hard to cross to the middle way, abounding home, sakayaditthi, doubt and rituals.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:33:02 PM
However much one say, West is West, East is East.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 02:28:29 PM
Where ever there is east, there is west. And vici versa. Where ever there is nama, there is rupa. Where ever one seeks for a home, there he will suffer.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:03:31 PM
West is West

gus

October 06, 2018, 09:56:42 AM
belief of kamma, gratitude, independence, honesty, devotion : These are hard to find in people
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:49:14 AM
Again, a latin proverb mit be useful: Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi , patisota is always harmful if not just one own defilements or having a proper stand to help. Sota is the virtue required to resist in borderlands.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:41:52 AM
If in a borderland it's better to simply serve and support the Sangha. It's not smart to seek for other householders to nurish on traced imperfections of something required to uphold, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 04:54:48 AM
Okasa, happy to hear such things reagarding kamma. Many monks I have met don't directly speak about kamma because they have been tired after practicing some years and now bit relaxed.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:17:26 AM
Such can be total kusala and total akusala or simply defuse. Set your mind right and be mindful, that nothing will be of harm for yourself and others.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:15:27 AM
There is nothing not permitted. Merits or demerits are the actors responsibility. One is full in charge of ones action in this Domain here, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 03:50:00 AM
Bhante, is it permitted to ask questions or post things on behalf of other/future people ?

gus

October 05, 2018, 09:19:32 AM
We have been advised like this:
"No matter however much monks reject you,
Never leave the place."
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 09:09:37 AM
It's good when wanderer gus takes a rest, turns to a lonly place, enjoys the merits done and find a good place for his mind and fixes possible open wholes when clear where he likes to go some hours later.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 08:59:03 AM
Wanderer Gus knows how foolish this statement is. That is not the way to get out of a hole.

gus

October 05, 2018, 08:42:59 AM
okasa,
falling down from a status is suffering.
So, if I could stay in the hell-being status from the beginning, then no suffering.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:33:20 AM
From a state of a young Bhikkhu equal tradition...to householder... ...asura (now) on the border to animal, peta, hell-state. It can go quick if not having firm nissaya.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:29:27 AM
Aniccam vatta samsara...

gus

October 05, 2018, 06:56:28 AM
Evolution:
Bhante subhuti =>
Upasaka gus =>
Deva gus =>
Asura gus.

In the future:
Asura gus =>
Peta gus =>
Animal gus =>
Hell-being gus ???

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:51:42 AM
Okasa, I think bhante thinks me as a patriot because of some content of my posts. But it is not.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 05:41:33 AM
What ever one likes to, not touched like the moon, does not mean to praise what is blameworthy and vici-versa and to have metta not to let people run into hell if ways can be pointed out. Yet other choices at least are their. Be quick, your island drifts away!

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:34:15 AM
Okasa,
As long as I don't do exactly what you say, I think I'll not be able to make you happy or satisfied.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 02:12:55 PM
If thinking that this is for sure, if delighting in believing that connected things are a refuge and give space to rest: one may do so. Ones own choice. When ever one stops to nurish inwardly, ouwardly path and fruits die. Good as well as bad.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:28:51 AM
If bhante didn't let the weak person to live in avatar/deva mode, then he will lose both openness and connection. Up to now I have secured at least the connection.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:22:24 AM
Yet I appreciate and pay vandana for your care and advice on openness.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:19:56 AM
Please forgive me  bhante if I have made you tired. I don't like to accumulate akusala by making a monk tired in expecting a naughty chicken to be a good duck.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam Khamtu me bhante!
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:07:06 AM
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:01:00 AM
Differnt asked "why is Bhante not happy, dwell not in outwardly seeming being not touched?" Because it would not only confirm and show sign of aggreement of unwise acts, but also very incompassionate and cruel. Also place for suspecting corrupt ways and invite others to follow the comfortable dwelli
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:54:12 AM
No one is able to make my person angry, which does not mean that he would not appear angry so to possible prevent from doing what is not conductive for liberation, even lead in lower states. Nothing to worry, but also no invitation to test it foolish since it could hurt one self and others.

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:46:39 AM
Okasa bhante, Isn't there at least single way to stay anonymous without making you angry?
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:33:12 AM
corr: "it's, the domain of the Noble Ones, is nobody's personal domain" there are no wards around fields for merits and no tickets to pay
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:29:31 AM
What ever Deva gus feels inspired. It's oneones personal domain and all giving is good in the distance of the brigh cool moon. One should not fear, should not be shy to do what is good and praised by the wise but be quick!

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:21:39 AM
Bhante, is that mean you don't like me to talk about higher subjects and like to talk about basics only?
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:02:12 AM
It would be more than good if teaching others a lot on the topic vandami (paying respect) and khamatu (asking for forgiviness) since unknown and not practiced here around this field of merits in compassion to former relatives, Deva gus.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:55:38 AM
...total no problem to dwell and lay down in the cool shadow to heal at all and no need to ask for pardon when intended for progressing and to get fit for the battles so hard to win.

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