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Author Topic: Invitation of យ័ញ មិញ គឿង and wikipedia issue  (Read 1870 times)

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Offline Johann

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Atma invited យ័ញ មិញ គឿង (Yonj Minj Kreoung) and also told him about a Wiki-problem, Atma came across some days ago.

Quote from: to យ័ញ មិញ គឿង
Bhante,

the Sangha has received via sangham.net and my person the gift of digital written Tipitaka by generous Upasika Norum. Since this there a serval people involved to make the best out of the gift and to bring it in good and proper condition so that it can be carried, maintained on and shared by the Savaka Sangha possible easily.
Upasika Norum also told about you generous work on it before, incl. that of others.
If Bhante is interested to join and work further on it (deep respect and holding of the Vinaya nessesary), he is more than welcome to do so and it will be no problem to prepare Bhante good and given access.

Please let it be known.

Another thing is, that my person has seen that the text has been shared on wikipedia and most possible it has been done by Bhante or following his suggestion. My person likes to inform you that such is neither proper nor rightously possible. Neither from viewing common laws nor and more importand from a view of Vinaya and Dhamma. So if Bhante was not aware of it, it would be good to be made un-done. Some words you may find in the discussion of the wikipages: https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/ការពិភាក្សា:ព្រះត្រៃបិដក

To make it undone, Bhante or any body else would need to declare that it violates copyright as well ethical principles of Dhamma Vinaya, so that the "system" of wiki could act and possible make it disappeare again.

Best wishes, metta and mudita

Samana Johann
doing Forest monk in Cambodia
(You are welcome to visit sangham.net)
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Norum

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Antw:Invitation of យ័ញ មិញ គឿង and wikipedia issue
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2017, 02:48:47 PM »
The title Tipitaka in khmer-wikipedia just describe what is in pitaka. but yes, there are few people posted some small sutta on that page.
I also think that is not good to do so.

Offline Johann

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Antw:Invitation of យ័ញ មិញ គឿង and wikipedia issue
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2017, 03:07:26 PM »
Not a few, Njom, about 15 books, from a short view. May the Vinaya and some other parts. That is why Atma thought Bhante might know more about it.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Norum

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Antw:Invitation of យ័ញ មិញ គឿង and wikipedia issue
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2017, 03:16:00 PM »
I dont think it was Bhante មិញ គឿង at all. He has his own website too, he must know what he should do.
Maybe other people, who just want to share Buddhavacana and dont think about its disadvantage.

Offline Johann

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Re: Invitation of យ័ញ មិញ គឿង and wikipedia issue
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2018, 09:09:04 AM »
Anyone an idea of how to contact administration of wiki-khmer, since has become a usuall issue. Maybe Nyom Norum ?

It would be not good to support "stealing" and violating others therms of condition.

My person is also not sure if it is good that Nyom Norum does not really have informations of how to use and certain restrictions of the texts on her web site. Althought copyright does not require such notes, most Cambodians are not aware of the issue in regard of common laws and not to speak about kammic effects of taking of what is not given or derive the owner in what ever way from his/her possession.

Maybe good if adding such.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 01:01:55 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: Invitation of យ័ញ មិញ គឿង and wikipedia issue
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2018, 04:13:24 PM »
My person could receive kind and obligated advice from a Wikimedia-Member.

As it seems, wiki-khmer, is total out of any maintaince. Maybe also for the future and others interesting and of help.

Quote from: Johann via email
Valued Mrs. X,

Sadhu! (Expression of approve of a skillful / wholesome action) and thanks "representative" for those helped!

My person has added a remark here https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat and hpoes his "alien" kind will be not to much of a hindrence to get possible certain things solved, or better well done for now.

It's generally not really the sphere, in all aspects, where it is proper for my person to act.


Samana Johann



Quote from: Respons by Mrs X

Actually, I was able to check quickly, and it doesn't look like those users are active.
Your best shot is at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat, clarifying the detail that all sysops there are inactive and that's why you're requesting external help.
(In case I got the page wrong, others will point you to the correct one.)

X

On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 1:33 PM,
Hi,
you can find a list of sysops of that wiki at https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/ពិសេស:បញ្ជីឈ្មោះអ្នកប្រើប្រាស់?username=&group=sysop&wpsubmit=&wpFormIdentifier=mw-listusers-form&limit=50 .
I recommend you start contacting the ones who are also bureaucrats, as they are more likely to be active.
You can do so by leaving a message on each discussion page of theirs, using the "talk" links.

Best,
X
Quote from: Johann to a certain Wikimedia-member
On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 1:17 PM,
Valued Mrs X,

pardon the unrequested approach at first place. My person is currently searching after Administrators on the Khmer Wiki, in regard of copyright issues. While searching my person came across your person and thought that X might have an idea of how to find one or how to best solve issues on a seemingly not very good and careless maintained wikipage.

If she has any idea or connection, it would be good to gain a share.

Best wishes, and much success for your good undertakings.

Samana Johann

This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: Invitation of យ័ញ មិញ គឿង and wikipedia issue
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2018, 06:33:37 PM »
It should not be seen as recommendation (since there are better ways and places for sacrifies) but if Nyom Norum has the needed authority or independency, she would be sure welcome to request such as administration of the wiki-pages, what is of course, if, only good for Dhammic pages.

One might follow the discussion and issue, in generally, here:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat#Administration_of_Khmer-wiki_pages

Quote
The local kmwiki administrators are listed here, this includes 2 bureaucrats that appear to be inactive for 2 years. Is there an active group of editors that could recommend new bureaucrats/admins? — xaosflux Talk 15:00, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

If there are active users, one or several of them can of course become admins. See SRP. Other than that, you can put requests for administrative actions on SRM. --MF-W 16:13, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

(One might know, that such as the wiki idea, is generally something total utopian in this sphere, for khmer language, yet education would be of course of very needed help, from my persons view, but the notion of Utopia counts generally, as my persons view and investigations results, in regard of wiki, with its communal ideals and objectives, for a longer lasting good.)

In regard of possible removing the content, if one might think to be of assistance, also the kind advice/hint, by wikimedia-member X

Quote from: Johann
Sadhu again for Mrs X fine observation, care and sense for feeling obligated.

May person follow the hint as far as possible for now
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Steward_requests/Miscellaneous#Improper_content_on_Khmer-Wiki

Samana Johann


Quote from: mrs x

I believe one user is recommending taking the issue to the attention of the stewards: it's what the "SRM" link at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat#Administration_of_Khmer-wiki_pages is about.

Regards,
X
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 07:20:04 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: Invitation of យ័ញ មិញ គឿង and wikipedia issue
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2018, 02:18:09 PM »
For information, Nyom Norum

Quote from: user page: https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/ការពិភាក្សារបស់អ្នកប្រើប្រាស់:Holder
Quote from: Johann
Willkommen im Land der Khmer, Hr. Holder. Kam Hr. Holder auf dieses https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat#Administration_of_Khmer-wiki_pages hinauf, oder vielleicht ein glücklicher "Zufall"? Samana Johann --សមណៈយុហាន់ (ការពិភាក្សា) ម៉ោង០៤:១៨ ថ្ងៃច័ន្ទ ទី១៥ ខែមករា ឆ្នាំ២០១៨ (UTC)

Quote from: Hr. Holder
Hi. I indeed came via this link. You have deleted the content of several articles because of copyright-violation. Can you give me a link to the website where the text have been pasted from. Then I can delete these articles. Best regards. --Holder (ការពិភាក្សា) ម៉ោង០៤:៣៣ ថ្ងៃច័ន្ទ ទី១៥ ខែមករា ឆ្នាំ២០១៨ (UTC)

Quote from: Johann
Sorry for late reply. Upasaka Norum currentl makes a description, she lives in Germany. Her German based webpage: http://chhouk-krohom.de Here descriptions have been given to the Sangha (community of monks) of the four directions via sangham.net where a small project is lanched to impove it. Owner, technical (e.g. wordily law), is the community of monks of Cambidia, in regard of the physical books. The content could be also have been copied from sangham.net: http://sangham.net/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item390 , recenty my person was contacted via email: "

Quote from: via email from Vantharith to Johann
Dear Venerable Samana,
Thanks for your email and reach out to us regarding the Khmer Tipitaka. We are now discussing internally and will get back to you sometime next week. Thanks,
Vantharith (maybe you have contact with her)

Sadhu for holders care, obligations and sacrifies and may there be always generosity to help to build up a good base here. If there are questions, because not really conected to this enviroment here, feel free and invited to use sangham.net
Best blessings for all of Holders good undertakings.

Quote from: Hr. Holder
I've now deleted the articles which probably have been copyright violations. Are there more of such articles? Best regards. --Holder (ការពិភាក្សា) ម៉ោង១៣:១៣ ថ្ងៃព្រហស្បតិ៍ ទី១៨ ខែមករា ឆ្នាំ២០១៨ (UTC)
Quote from: Johann
Since there is a lot of work behind the structer, it's maybe possible to not always delete all but just the copy pasted content? And since, when people see "missing", they will simple paste it into again (there are no admins here), maybe a info "do not copy and past!!" would be good to place instead. My person does not think that users here can trace issues and the system.

Yes, there are similar articels. Most ever end-article of this structer there: https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/ព្រះត្រៃបិដក (which is about the 110 books) only a small amout have been deleted.
Content mostly has this § signs [៣៤] like this page: https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/បារាជិកកណ្ឌ​សិក្ខាបទ​ទី_១ and so on... if not from the source in this issue the often from other books. In this case, if there is a technical possibility to check all pages under the category Buddhism (https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/ព្រះពុទ្ធសាសនា) against Upasika Norums website, copy past content would be found, otherwise one has to check all pages manual within this category
Generally the most content on Buddhism is such, but again, if simply deleting all with pasted content, a lot of work get's lost and there will be hardly someone taking on it. So it can be very destructive. It would be good to have a native helper. Maybe contact Nyom Vantharith (vantharith.oum -at- gmail.....com) a topic on sangham.net can be found here http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,7816.msg11071.html#msg11071
May it be understood, that my person walks on the "edge" even till here and it is not proper to get involved in lay peoples issues. How ever good they might be or not --សមណៈយុហាន់ (ការពិភាក្សា) ម៉ោង១៣:៤៣ ថ្ងៃព្រហស្បតិ៍ ទី១៨ ខែមករា ឆ្នាំ២០១៨ (UTC)

Quote from: Antwort via email an Nyom Vantharith
Good to hear and mudita, Nyom Srey Vantharith.

Not really needed to come back to my person. It's a matter of giving advice of what is good and proper for ones long time benefit and that of many, if respecting the Buddha, The Dhamma and the good following Sangha , putting conducts always over mostly defiled desires in regarding the rightousness and law of cause and effect.

What you ever one does, to that will he/she fall.

May the advices be heard and may being be able to follow the wise against the grain.

Samana Johann



Oh, just to contribute to your discussion:

- Content put on wiki becomes possession of wiki: how can one give the tipitaka to a company? Take it away from the Sangha?

- Content given, must be/is free to modify, that means everybody can modify as he/she wishes. The Buddha, the Sangha, the disciples would not agree that the Dhamma is changed.

- Content given to wiki must be one own so that it can be given: Not only that the owner is the Sangha, in this case there is an author (again the Sangha) and there are privat owners of the discription who gave it to the Sangha. And the content was even from a legal view illegal copy and paste.

- Content must be free to be commercial, for sale: that is hardly against basic right view and the economy of Dhamma and generosity, meaning the end of Dhamma-Dana.

So on what ever level it is viewed, it's actually "stealing" to put Buddha Dhamma into this enviroment. Of course links and own explainings (based on references, which are generally very rare) might be no problem at all.

If it should be that a monk takes on to write in such an enviroment, be sure that it might be for the most a violation of his precepts and in regard of stealing even a heavy downfall violation making him to be no more seen as monk right after the deed, if being aware of his act, ignoring that it is Sangha or others property.

- Wiki, furthermore, is based on a "communist" ideology, that means that it does not regard authority (where ever not forced), elders, parents, teacher, wise. One generally intent of communist idealogy is to deprive owner, private owner, step by step from their possession and make it to community possession. "Nice thought" as long not your possession is taken, or? So generally most views of wiki go straight against right view and old Khmer tradition. It not wishing to give ground for another broad "communist" ideology are and feed such, it would be good to seek ways to act and build up more Khmer (khema: land or person at peace)

May that makes the importance in regard of Buddha Dhamma on Wiki more understandable. It's not a proper place for it at all and sacrifies, if even, are of very low benefit. May it be of conductive use for your discussion so that you may act either wise or in trust/faith of the wise and elder.

Samana Johann

Quote from: email from Johann to Nyom Vantharith
Maybe Nyom Vantharith can coordinate the issue with mr. Holder, since wiki is generally very strict in copy right issues an administrator are very quick in deleting if such is traced.

https://km.wikipedia.org/wiki/ការពិភាក្សារបស់អ្នកប្រើប្រាស់:Holder

It would be not good if much of work of structur and writing would get lost. So maybe you choose to cooperate in this issues.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 03:06:03 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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Plauderbox

gus

Today at 12:02:06 AM
Saddhaya tarati ogham !

As you said "A person without trust, Saddhaa , say the wise, is like someone without hands and feet."
 

Johann

September 25, 2018, 06:29:46 PM
My person leaves for today. Much joy in deeper exploring this place, Atma thinks Nyom Gus will certainly do.
 

Johann

September 14, 2018, 07:11:41 AM
Und was ist die Grundlage für das Aukommen (paccaya) von Saddhā? Dukkha ist die Grundlage für das Aufkommen von Vertrauen (Händen und Füßen). Viel Dukkha! um Khema zu werden.
 

Johann

September 14, 2018, 07:02:53 AM
Eine Person ohne Vertrauen, Saddhaa, so sagen die Weisen, ist wie jemand ohne Hände und ohne Füße.

Also besser heute "unperfekt" beginnen, Anstelle perfekt wiedermal weiter nirgendwo Zuflucht zu erlangen. "Da ist nichts Gutes, es sei den man tut es."
 

Johann

September 11, 2018, 02:42:47 PM
Nyom Roman.
 

Johann

September 10, 2018, 03:39:32 PM
Ein Besucher. Wie geht es den Katzen?
 

Johann

September 08, 2018, 01:28:03 AM
Meister Hanspeter
 

Johann

September 05, 2018, 08:34:31 AM
At Buddhas times, so in times of Ajahn Mun, Upāli was the great supporter of the Kassapa, now the "Upalis" just make their livelihoods with it. Sad but true: or "nor for sure?"
 

Johann

September 05, 2018, 08:31:06 AM
It's like with Metallica- Fans and their producer, or to put it into Buddhas words: Uposatha of the cowboys.
 

Johann

September 05, 2018, 08:27:52 AM
Today many trade an nurish on the reputation of forest or kammaṭṭhāna - monks, making their livelihood with it by giving books, while wasting away their own goodness and possibilities actually destruct their upanissaya to it.
 

Johann

September 01, 2018, 07:16:53 PM
mit gahaṭṭha den Tag abschließend und segenreichen (verdienstvollen puñña) Sonntag allen anregend.
 

Johann

September 01, 2018, 09:43:50 AM
Was immer Mönch/Lehrer im Westen/moderenen Welt weilt, ist entweder Außenseiter oder (möglich ist) Arahant. Denken Sie nach.
 

Johann

September 01, 2018, 09:41:14 AM
Suchen Sie die Theras in traditionellem Land. Die Mitglieder anderer Sekten/"Buddhisten/moderne, arroganz/dünkel gefangen, sind verloren!
 

Johann

September 01, 2018, 09:38:20 AM
Das ist so klärend... ohne, wie die Westlichen Lehrer, jemals in alte Kultur und Sprache eingetaucht zu sein, vermag man nicht mal Pali richtig übersetzen, scjreiben, dann erst Buddhavaca verstehen.
 

Johann

August 30, 2018, 03:39:04 PM
Be prepared to die! Pets -life in a rich country is nice, but you would not understand anything: paṭisandhi (Com., Mahavihara)
 

Johann

August 30, 2018, 01:38:39 PM
 

Johann

August 26, 2018, 10:06:36 PM
Verdienstreichen Vollmond-Uposatha Ausklang allen.
 

Johann

August 22, 2018, 06:04:12 AM
"No mercy" :) soweit Trübungen nicht hindern, Nyom Moritz und Mudita.
 

Moritz

August 22, 2018, 05:07:08 AM
Ich verabschiede mich. Viele Dinge zu ordnen. _/\_
 

Moritz

August 22, 2018, 04:50:41 AM
 _/\_
Gut zu hören, auch wenn sicher relativ.
Mögen Bhante genug Schonung finden. _/\_
 

Johann

August 22, 2018, 04:37:12 AM
Gegenüber dem "Sterben" gestern, "pumperlg'sund" auf Wienerisch. Sadhu der Nachfrage, Nyom Moritz.
 

Moritz

August 22, 2018, 04:10:10 AM
Vandami, Bhante _/\_
Wie geht es Ihnen körperlich?
 

Johann

August 17, 2018, 02:21:49 AM
Mein's oder nicht meines, (Gier) Liebe oder Hass... Da sind wenige, die Blumen im Wald stehen lassen und Insekten nicht töten, weder bleiben noch gehen, und alles geben aus Wohlwollen und Mitgefühl, Weisheit gewonnen, Geiz besiegt und Güte ohne zu vereinnahmen. Wie konnten andere diese je sehen,
 

Johann

August 13, 2018, 05:13:25 AM
Händler mögen es nicht sich für passendes Mudita hinzugeben, und würden nur in Lob über deren Handelsware sprechen. Warum Leute Lobenswertes nicht loben: apacayana eine er 12 Personen: "...ein Geschäftsmann, sich seiner Schuld zum Arbeiten für seinen Vorteil verschrieben."
 

Johann

August 11, 2018, 12:06:41 AM
Erfreuenden und klärenden Neumond-Uposatha, den Ehrw. Herren, Anhängern und Interessierten.
 

Johann

August 10, 2018, 08:31:57 PM
Sokh chomreoun Nyom. Möge sich Sukha zur Vollständigkeit mehren.
 

Moritz

August 10, 2018, 06:20:44 PM
Ich muss wieder an die Arbeit. Einen angenehmen Abend, Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

August 10, 2018, 05:25:27 PM
Nyom Moritz.

Nyom Mohan.
 

Moritz

August 10, 2018, 05:18:04 PM
Guten Abend, Bhante _/\_
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

August 05, 2018, 12:58:01 PM
Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann,

ich habe der Gruppe „ Anussavika“ beigetreten.

Dhamma Grüβe an Sie aus Sri Lanka!
 

Johann

July 31, 2018, 04:38:15 PM
Den Weg kennend, im Vertrauen jenen folgen ihn gehend, gegangen, sich dann ausschließlich um die Enihsltung des Weges kümmer, gelangt man nach oben und hinaus. So, in dieser Weise, ist "der Weh ist das Ziel zu verstehen.
 

Johann

July 31, 2018, 04:33:35 PM
Mögen alles stets vorrangig auf die Qualitäten von Handlungen und Hingaben, die Ursachen für Früchte achten und nicht wie dumme gewöhnliche Leute, Zeile fixieren und danach gfreifen, die Ursachen damit fehlen, nie zu Früchten kommend, falscher Mitteln für Wirkung bedient.

Mudita
 

Johann

July 28, 2018, 07:38:00 AM
on how the blessed hobby, the liberating anime, the sublime gotchi decays for one and at a certain point for all: Dhamma-Gotchi and only fake last for some times lasting till also the mythos decays.
 

Johann

July 26, 2018, 01:50:45 PM
Morgen, Vollmond vor dem Vassa seiend, mag jener, der nicht zu sehr verstrickt in Fehlinvestitionen, die Gelegenheit für Lösung von Verstrickungen zu nützen vermögen.
 

Johann

July 26, 2018, 01:50:20 PM
Morgen, Vollmond vor dem Vassa seiend, mag jener, der nicht zu sehr verstrickt in Fehlinvestitionen, die Gelegenheit für Lösung von Verstrickungen zu nützen vermögen.
 

Roman

July 22, 2018, 08:01:16 PM
Danke für die Infos
und eine friedliche Nacht
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 06:27:44 PM
Atma, zieht sich nun zurück, wieder spät geworden, Nyom. Ruhe Freude und Geduld beim ungestörten Erkunden und Gelegenheiten, Gegeben-heiten, nutzen.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:13:38 PM
Atma wird das Gespräch nun versuchen in Passendes Thema im Forum zu kopieren.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:12:06 PM
In Sorge Unmut ob der Situation, gänzlich anders Vorgestellt,  zu mehren, hatte Johann nicht nach Marcel gefragt. Doch hätte er, würde er er erwähnen, wenn da dringliches und triftige Sorge um Marcel wäre. Gute Übung und Lehre, alles in allem, für viele, wenn danach ausgerichtet. Also einfach
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:06:12 PM
Bhante Indannano, Johann angerufen habend, kurz, vor Tagen, unterrichtet geworden das Johann am Weg in die Hauptstadt sein, hatte sich sehr zurückhaltend und kurz gehalten. Wohl nicht mit den weltlichen Hindernissen all zu Erfreut und noch ungelößt.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:03:21 PM
Im Verwenden des Forums, überall, keine Sorge irgendwo was Falsch zu machen, ist es Stressfreier und Langlebiger, auch für andere, als Geschenk, Nyom Roman. Woimmer.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:00:55 PM
Nyom kam Nyom als "füherer Elternteil/Verwandter" betrachten. Hie etwas Technischer: ញោម "Nyom", ñoma - Ursprung bzw. Bedeutung
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:56:10 PM
Wenn Sie sich freimachen können, besuchen Sie ihn, und machen Sie Entdeckungsreise in unbekannter Welt, während ihm vielleich Weltliches abnehmen könnend.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:53:55 PM
mit Freude tun oder Geben mag, wo immer, ist vorallem für Roman glücksverheißend, neben Moraluscher Stange zum Glück für ihn haltend.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:51:42 PM
Mag er sicher Abstand von Unsicherm Gewinnen. Was immer Roman sich inspiriet fühlt, geschicktes, niemanden Verletzendes zu geben, zu tun, gar vielleicht mehr an jemand erhabener als "nur" eigener Bruder denkend,
 

Roman

July 22, 2018, 02:49:04 PM
  Und was bedeutet Nyom...Ich habe versucht zu übersetzen.  Jedoch weiß ich nicht ob der Bezug richtig ist
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:48:39 PM
Johann hat ihn schon länger nicht persönlich getroffen, ob in Buchstaben, am Ohr oder mit mehr Sinnen. Gestern war er wohl online hier. Denke er ist sehr vertieft in der Praxis und hat eigentlich wenig Interesse sich um Äußerses zu kümmern.
 

Roman

July 22, 2018, 02:46:46 PM
Beim lesen von den Beiträgen fällt es mir noch bißchen schwer alles zu verstehen...Ich frage mich gerade wer Atma ist..Und moritz bist du für die Internetseite zuständig?  
 

Roman

July 22, 2018, 02:43:49 PM
Hallo,

Ich lese viel hier und wollte mich mal erkundigen wie es mit Marcel so steht..Hatte letzte Woche mit ihm gesprochen und es geht ihm gut! Hatte Johann geschrieben wie ich helfen kann..
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:41:15 PM
Nyom Roman

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