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Author Topic: Saddhā Included Disprovable Truth, So Kālāmasutta Excluded "Trust In (Real) R...  (Read 436 times)

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Offline Johann

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Upasaka Vorapol ,
Atma likes to trust that it is welcome by you to cite your blogs entry, since he could not write there direct (its not kusala possible for monks taking and holding accounts of third part, not given accounts.). It also may give you reason to think about the assuming that all on internet is given to take by everyone and welcome by the provider naturally. If not happy with the share here, please let it be known.

To the topic. You wrote:

Saddhā Included Disprovable Truth, So Kālāmasutta Excluded "Trust In (Real) Rationalist Teacher"

And trust, in kamma+vipāka (causes and effects), is used to prove "the teacher is rationalist". Because people maybe have not enough ability to prove someone, ability, that better than their ability. So disprovable truth, such as the better ability person, is excluded in kālāmasutta.

So when people enlighten as sotāpanna, they must will never have any micchādiṭṭhi, that is wrong causes or wrong effects flavor, any more. And they also have a perfect, unchangable, trust in buddha and saṅghā, who are the real rationalists.

Saddhu! Upasaka Vorapol.

Just two things. Maybe its not good to say "disprovable" becaus it is actually proveable (all of Buddhas sayings can be given a prove, but not by rati till the final understanding dassana vijjaṃ but not for one without saddhā since the prove requires to walk the path act-ually. As for the prove, even it is mentioned in the last stanzas of the sutta: "benefit here and now".
The other point is how does the Sutta fit to your personal point of view, you stand (diṭṭho) seeing that you tend to say "only this is true", "because this is my teacher", "because its said by this lineage of followers, the only right" and how could a not sotāpannā possible eliminate his tendency to crasp after views since he would not even listening if a sotāpanno or higher, even if the Buddha would talk to him (=reading all his texts), and isnkt it that while the Suttas give nearly to no chance to grasp after anything, the not so pure Commentaries, althought they might be helpful, give much nurishment for stands (diṭṭho)?

Isn't the problem of so called Rationalist Teachers that they know much do much with their ratio but actually do not the path? How to make them doing the prove, develope enough saddho incl. saṃvegaṃ so that they would leave home outwardly and inwardly (the saḷāyatanaṃ, their rūpaṃs and their minds in action (viññāṇaṃs), for rational teacher especially the māno indriyā he can not leave, the home of his constructed world). Is it possible for one who has not actually really left home (sotāpanno to give a trustful teacher, when we think of whom to listen to for advice to the Kālāmās (he still takes, destroys life, indulges in sensual misconduct, speaks what is not the truth... short a worlding) while it does not say that it is not possible that even a fool could cite the word of the Buddha rightly and help others to understand still he him self can not.

How would a rational teacher answer and how one of real wisdom?

Maybe you try to give rational as well as insightful but emotionless answeres that do not give rise to micchādiṭṭhī ("and what is the reason of arising of wrong view, wrong stand. The words of others and selfinvolved thinking (I am, I know, I am learned, what will I be then, what will it cause to me, my knowledge is mine lasting, attā, will it be still mine, could it damage what I assume to be mine?...").

(Hope the pāḷiṃ is written and used right, feel invited to correct it or give a teaching on it as well)
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 09:31:02 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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