* * * *

Tipitaka Khmer

 Please feel welcome to join the transcription project of the Tipitaka translation in khmer, and share one of your favorite Sutta or more. Simply click here or visit the Forum: 

Search ATI on ZzE

Zugang zur Einsicht - Schriften aus der Theravada Tradition



Access to Insight / Zugang zur Einsicht: Dhamma-Suche auf mehr als 4000 Webseiten (deutsch / english) - ohne zu googeln, andere Ressourcen zu nehmen, weltliche Verpflichtungen einzugehen. Sie sind für den Zugang zur Einsicht herzlich eingeladen diese Möglichkeit zu nutzen. (Info)

Random Sutta
Random Article
Random Jataka

Zufälliges Sutta
Zufälliger Artikel
Zufälliges Jataka


Arbeits/Work Forum ZzE

"Dhammatalks.org":
[logo dhammatalks.org]
Random Talk
[pic 30]

Recent Topics

[Today at 02:50:05 AM]

[Today at 12:00:32 AM]

[April 21, 2018, 01:59:19 PM]

[April 21, 2018, 12:43:05 PM]

[April 21, 2018, 12:20:10 PM]

[April 20, 2018, 03:07:17 PM]

[April 20, 2018, 02:56:41 PM]

[April 19, 2018, 04:48:12 AM]

[April 19, 2018, 01:19:35 AM]

[April 18, 2018, 12:27:55 PM]

[April 18, 2018, 12:26:00 PM]

[April 18, 2018, 12:18:31 PM]

[April 18, 2018, 06:06:52 AM]

[April 18, 2018, 01:13:09 AM]

[April 17, 2018, 04:41:05 PM]

[April 17, 2018, 03:23:52 PM]

[April 16, 2018, 06:18:51 PM]

[April 16, 2018, 12:47:32 AM]

[April 15, 2018, 12:28:06 PM]

[April 15, 2018, 09:39:03 AM]

[April 15, 2018, 12:35:32 AM]

[April 14, 2018, 04:18:33 AM]

[April 14, 2018, 02:12:07 AM]

[April 13, 2018, 07:31:39 PM]

[April 13, 2018, 06:17:55 PM]

[April 13, 2018, 05:31:59 AM]

[April 12, 2018, 06:15:00 AM]

[April 12, 2018, 02:58:27 AM]

[April 11, 2018, 02:57:48 PM]

[April 11, 2018, 12:04:07 PM]

[April 11, 2018, 02:54:59 AM]

[April 09, 2018, 06:00:29 PM]

[April 09, 2018, 05:42:37 PM]

[April 09, 2018, 09:24:34 AM]

[April 09, 2018, 02:48:32 AM]

[April 09, 2018, 02:29:31 AM]

[April 07, 2018, 05:19:05 PM]

[April 04, 2018, 03:08:45 PM]

[April 04, 2018, 10:55:42 AM]

[April 04, 2018, 05:40:16 AM]

[April 04, 2018, 04:56:37 AM]

[April 04, 2018, 02:40:07 AM]

[April 02, 2018, 01:22:37 PM]

[April 02, 2018, 11:55:40 AM]

[April 02, 2018, 07:18:56 AM]

[April 02, 2018, 06:49:19 AM]

[April 01, 2018, 08:41:01 AM]

[April 01, 2018, 06:06:15 AM]

[April 01, 2018, 04:33:03 AM]

[March 31, 2018, 06:13:31 PM]
[Buddha]

Author Topic: Pesala's indirect suggestion to give no alms to not meditating monks  (Read 473 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +339/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Again, when ever a lay person goes in the right direction of thought and has obiviously more virtues as Pesala, he cuts of the confidence of people having gained what is not easy to gain.

Quote from: maranadhammomhi
I live in San Francisco, California. The only Theravādin temple here is Wat San Fran Dhammaram, which was founded by Acariya Thoon Khippapanyo.

http://watsanfran.org/about-us/

There are a few resident monastics there. I went there a couple months ago to ask about alms-giving & had a short talk with one of the monks. He told me they don't meditate...I was taken aback by this...his explanation was that their teacher emphasized right view above everything else, that people apparently are rarely helped by meditation, & that many people in the suttas attained realization without meditating. I haven't gone back since & have not given alms, I do not feel like they are practicing as monastics should. But I am worried I am potentially creating unwholesome kamma by, as a lay person, judging them to not be 'real' recluses & monks...they were extremely kind & hospitable...the center seems like it's a Thai cultural center as much as or more than a Buddhist center but they give Dhamma talks & host the events you'd expect a temple to have...should I give them alms anyway?

It's actually not so a fault to donate to outsiders, its even suggesed to give to the Sangha (keeping that object in mind), since how could an outsider, like Pesala, know of whom is in?

But its really a fault to listen to outsiders, if they do not simple repeat of what the Buddha had told.

Right-view is certainly vital, especially the right-view that realisation comes about through practising meditation, not without it. Those many people in the Suttas who gained realisation just by listening to a short or detailed teaching had practised meditation intensively in previous lives (like Bāhiya Dārucirya who gained it faster than anyone else), so they could gain insight and Path Knowledge rapidly.

Others, even during the Buddha's time, had to practice for half a day, one day, seven days, seven weeks, seven months, or seven years to attain the paths (as it says in the conclusion of the Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta).

Of the Four Type of Capacity for Path Attainment, only the latter two are said to remain nowadays.

Not only that Satipaṭṭhāna is not a matter of sitting, and the focus on gaining right view is actually the only good practice it is that dwelling heedless (if even) would not tell that one is not on the track or even an insider, a Noble One.

More and clear words on this, see: Nandiya Sutta: To Nandiya and comments.

As for those thinking that just sitting with closed eyes are the only worthy of gifts would maybe have good chances to gain good merits in donating to cats, if such would be right.

Since there is less chance to keep Pesala away from his habits, it would be how ever importand to inform the lay person and to set a "rebuke" there, to do not cause people to fall from saddha and good mind states.

At least, my person, in this case, has never heard or seen that Ven. Ajahn Thoon Khippapanyo holds on signs for wrong view or teaches such.

Pointless how those "western" monks with closed eyes misslead a whole sociaty by having in this way no view of what was taught by the Buddha at all.

Anumodana!
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Online Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +339/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Antw:Pesala's indirect suggestion to give no alms to not meditating monks
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2017, 01:44:05 PM »
Sadhu! But its pointless if nobody is able to quieten this foolish "monk", who in regard of his amount of right view and disceditating of monks who focus on right view, by suggessing even this list :

The Three Types of Monks Defined
Should One Avoid Shameless and Immoral Monks?
Should One Honour Shameless and Immoral Monks?
Should One Worship Shameless and Immoral Monks?
Should One Criticise Shameless and Immoral Monks?
Can A Shameless Monk Become Scrupulous?
Should Lay Persons Learn the Vinaya?
The Four Purifying Moralities
What Are the Effects of Transgressing Morality?
What Are the Factors of Saṅghikadāna?
Cultivating A Skilful Attitude

...totaly emphasizes by him self the windmills he sees.

As for the poor lay people over there, equal meet each other tend to one and another. Small chances... that someone sees the need to step out.

Never try to learn anything from Western, Modern monks living in the West, or have not just cutted of all attachments to ordinary thinking. Have not seen one who sticks to the three Gems till now. There is a reason why they are not able to live where they would actually belong.

When one thinks on the Kamma he did, does and will further do... even sendig a lot of metta could not help him and those "bound" to him.

Good texts, there, but how could a fool distinguish between those things...

Quote from: from the Book
Due to lack of knowledge, unwise lay people will slander monks, shameless monks will abuse scrupulous monks, scrupulous monks will have ill-will towards shameless monks, and many may fall into hell.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 02:00:57 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Online Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +339/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Antw:Pesala's indirect suggestion to give no alms to not meditating monks
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2017, 02:14:22 PM »
Actualy it really does not make sence to waste time and try to help people out to do not wrong.

As told in the good books fools today hold on: just leave places where wrong view is celerbrated.

And if you are a person who has to much of karuna, even aviod to take a look from far there. Things are never uncomfortable if simply letting go, when you duty has been done in such societies, leaving you proper portion of metta behind.

DW will never become a place where generosity and honest moral are uphold, neither a place where people respect respect worthy, going forth or parents.

Its currupted and lost, lay people like a like their monks. Its not supprising that there is a strong connection to sutta central and other destructors of the Buddhas heritage.

Wrong Samádhi Causes Unwitting Deviations

To practice concentration without correct understanding may lead to wrong concentration, from which the person develops abnormal perceptions, the so-called vipassanupakkilesa. You may have heard that samádhi can cause mental abnormality. When it happens, all perceptions arising from the wrong samádhi are abnormal. This is the case when the practice is without wisdom, bringing about misunderstanding in the mind.

I would like to give three suggestions to prevent such abnormality:...

Actually Ajahn Thoon would have the same attitude like Pesalas teacher, but there is the spoon simile in Dhp.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 02:42:12 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 

9 Guests, 1 User
Johann
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 22, 2018, 03:03:08 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Talkbox

 

Danilo

April 15, 2018, 12:43:25 AM
Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

April 15, 2018, 12:38:56 AM
Nyom Danilo.
 

Johann

April 12, 2018, 10:05:15 AM
Moritz
 

Moritz

April 12, 2018, 08:34:11 AM
Namasakara, Bhante. _/\_
 

Moritz

April 10, 2018, 07:19:18 PM
Hello.
 

Johann

April 10, 2018, 01:09:20 PM
Nyom. (Sideboad ist stets zugeklappt... tech. Probl.) 3:00 ist auch schon guten Tag.
 

Moritz

April 10, 2018, 03:06:49 AM
Good day (night here)
_/\_
 

Moritz

April 10, 2018, 02:54:42 AM
Namasakara, Bhante. _/\_
 

Johann

April 09, 2018, 09:43:17 AM
Take your time Nyom Danilo and watch the breath to stay best calm for best benefit. A lot of chances to get ride of many ols burdens.
 

Danilo

April 08, 2018, 06:24:57 PM
_/\_
 

Johann

April 08, 2018, 05:54:03 PM
Nyom Danilo.
 

Marcel

April 08, 2018, 09:58:59 AM
sadhu!
 

Johann

April 08, 2018, 07:35:17 AM
Sadhu!
 

Moritz

April 08, 2018, 06:13:54 AM
Good Uposatha to all. _/\_
 

Marcel

April 01, 2018, 06:17:08 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

March 31, 2018, 07:13:47 PM
Nyom Jens.
 

Johann

March 31, 2018, 10:11:20 AM
Sadhu!
 

Marcel

March 31, 2018, 09:52:03 AM
 :-* ich wünsche allen ein verdienstvollen uposatha  :-*
 

Johann

March 27, 2018, 06:44:11 PM
Atma zieht sich hier nun zurück. Möge sich Vollkommenheit einstellen.
 

Johann

March 27, 2018, 05:26:44 PM
Nyom Binocular.
 

Johann

March 27, 2018, 04:10:58 PM
Nyom Jens.
 

Johann

March 27, 2018, 01:47:58 PM
Brahmane Hanspeter.
 

Johann

March 27, 2018, 01:41:50 PM
Moritz, mag sich Vollendung ergeben. (Chamreun bo)
 

Moritz

March 27, 2018, 12:20:53 PM
Chom reap sour. _/\_
 

Moritz

March 27, 2018, 12:11:33 PM
Vandami, Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

March 26, 2018, 01:42:45 PM
Nyom Binocular.

my person will leave for today and rests. There have been left some hard challenges (sure for many). May they be releasing taken and increase conviction.
 

Johann

March 25, 2018, 01:40:14 PM
Gute Antwort. Sadhu!
 

Marcel

March 25, 2018, 12:46:12 PM
 :-* :-* :-*

beste wünsche zurück an erhwürdigen bhante! es ist unsicher wann ich wieder komme! upanissayapaccayena!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

March 25, 2018, 12:28:38 PM
Marcel.
(Heute im Nordkloster, best wünsche vom Abt dort, er fragt stets "Wann kommt er? Ich muß immer an ihn denken."
 

Johann

March 24, 2018, 10:44:34 AM
Sadhu!
 

Marcel

March 24, 2018, 09:52:48 AM
 :-* heute ist uposatha!! ich wünsche allen ein verdienstvollen tag! mögen die devas jene bescheid geben, die kein zugang haben! :-*
 

Johann

March 23, 2018, 11:37:46 AM
Sadhu! Zu was immer einer Zuflucht nimmt, sich hingibt, daran erfreut, das wird/ist sein Schutz, für Bindung oder Ungebundenheit.
 

Marcel

March 23, 2018, 01:43:01 AM
 :-* möge die drei juwelen den ehrwürdigen bhante beschützen und ihn auf seinem weg unterstützen :-*
 

Johann

March 23, 2018, 01:28:02 AM
Kampf der Devas mit den Asuras um den Berg. :)
 

Johann

March 23, 2018, 01:26:30 AM
Regenzeit... außen trüb und unangenehm, nagend, faulend, doch dahinter ist alles fein.
 

Marcel

March 23, 2018, 01:10:47 AM
 :-* ehrwürdiger bhante johann, ja soweit alles gut! und wie geht es ihnen?  :-*
 

Johann

March 23, 2018, 12:58:05 AM
verlesen... Marcel :) alles gut im (ver)laufen?
 

Johann

March 23, 2018, 12:26:23 AM
Moritz
 

Administration

March 21, 2018, 03:42:55 PM
Sadhu!
 

Marcel

March 21, 2018, 03:32:47 PM
 :-* mögen sie alle noch in diesem leben das herz von avijja befreien!!! :-*
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 05:20:12 AM
This "wiki"-like backup tool is meant as a outwardy insurance that one does not be afraid that anything possible good can be desroyed or made bad while looking for cleaning it. So worry at all, kamma does not dissapear. No need to fear to make good deeds, knowing that.
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 04:03:35 AM
And there is no intention to just make a museum out of a working and concentration camp, since the Dhamma can not be understood by just looking on forms but by learning and experiance skillful deeds.
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 04:00:47 AM
Post-history: http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,1164.0.html (but there is no notification system). My person uses to make a @mention , off topic "/me" in the OP.
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 03:49:28 AM
Or to simply make a new post. No need to be shy in doing good things. It's not a museum, it's a working and concentration place. Mudita.
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 03:47:57 AM
There is such as a "wiki" backup function in all posts, Nyom Danilo. Good is to use the mention option, at the places where making changes @Johann , that it gets not "lost".
 

Danilo

March 19, 2018, 03:02:46 AM
I have a backup of the original post in any case. I might review the second post next time. Very insightful teaching. _/\_
 

Danilo

March 19, 2018, 03:01:35 AM
I've recently fixed many words and sentences of the first post of the thread "Debts, but to whom?". It take me some time trying to figure out the meaning of some sentences. So it would be good if Bhante could check if the original intended meaning of the post still intact. I have a backup of the ori
 

Danilo

March 19, 2018, 01:57:28 AM
_/\_ _/\_ _/\_
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 12:01:09 AM
One leading to peaks pointing downward so that aging, sickness and death can be seen, know him/her as a sage, a giver of release.
 

Johann

March 18, 2018, 11:57:30 PM
One leading people to papanca, promoting rejoicing in objectification as the heart wood, increases to fields of corpse in the world.

Show 50 latest
Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 14159
  • Total Topics: 2736
  • Online Today: 22
  • Online Ever: 90
  • (September 25, 2014, 05:26:29 AM)
Users Online
Users: 1
Guests: 9
Total: 10