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2020 Jan 24 09:58:40
Johann: As thought, incl. the Devas.

2020 Jan 24 08:29:47
Cheav Villa: He kept walking on road num 3 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 24 08:28:40
Cheav Villa: But could not help only giving drinking water. Bhante told his lost in this area 3days ago then he walr

2020 Jan 24 08:24:26
Cheav Villa: with Dad and Srey muk kamao, going to visit His Grand ma Grand pa. Fortunately he met Bhante Khmema kumara on the main road

2020 Jan 24 08:22:10
Cheav Villa: Kana Bhante this morning aroung 7.30 kana son arrived near Psar Tram kna on national road number3

2020 Jan 24 08:20:39
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 24 07:05:21
Johann: A blessed chinese new year, new moon Uposatha those who celebrate it today.

2020 Jan 23 21:53:22
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 23 21:46:43
Johann: Sokh chomreoun

2020 Jan 23 21:25:30
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 23 11:48:02
Johann: A blessed and fruitful new moon Uposatha, those observing it today

2020 Jan 22 13:30:29
Johann: May Sukha come to fulfillment, Nyom. It's well for now.

2020 Jan 22 09:39:03
Danilo: did Bhante's health get better?

2020 Jan 22 09:37:11
Danilo: Bhante Johann _/\_

2020 Jan 21 19:20:53
Johann: Meister Moritz

2020 Jan 21 19:01:10
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 21 13:09:02
Johann: Blind like ants are being believing in technic, scients and incapable to trace where and how effects take their cause.

2020 Jan 20 19:30:27
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 19 20:32:04
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2020 Jan 19 20:29:34
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 19 15:01:46
Johann: some moved to topic here

2020 Jan 19 10:20:11
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2020 Jan 19 10:03:16
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 18 08:14:54
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 18 05:57:52
Johann: A blessed and fruitful Sila day

2020 Jan 17 19:19:18
Moritz: Chom reap leah _/\_

2020 Jan 17 18:37:01
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2020 Jan 17 18:14:15
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2020 Jan 17 13:39:36
Sophorn: Many greetings to everyone,

2020 Jan 17 13:39:19
Sophorn:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 17 10:29:19
Johann: "so, now I go up and clear the area a little, make some merits, and I will not share my merits, with anybody..."  ^-^

2020 Jan 17 08:49:11
Chanroth: ធ្វើអាស្រមហើយចេញពីរសេចក្ដីល្អ ធ្វើអ្វីដើម្បីខ្លួល្អជាង

2020 Jan 17 08:45:08
Chanroth: សូមលាហើយ

2020 Jan 17 08:33:16
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 17 06:56:27
Johann: A blessed and fruitful Uposatha, those observing it today.

2020 Jan 17 06:45:45
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2020 Jan 17 06:44:49
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 16 23:01:31
Moritz: Mr. Lew _/\_

2020 Jan 15 14:16:00
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 15 11:15:29
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 15 11:12:01
Johann: Nyom

2020 Jan 15 10:24:02
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_

2020 Jan 15 10:21:50
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2020 Jan 15 10:11:56
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 12 22:22:36
Moritz: Chom reap leah _/\_

2020 Jan 12 22:04:02
Moritz: _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:34:30
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:31:02
Johann: Sokh chomreoun, may happiness come to fullfillment, all

2020 Jan 12 21:27:15
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_ Visitor _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:26:54
Cheav Villa:  Kana Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:26:06
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:24:21
Moritz: Visitor _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:24:09
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:23:59
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:23:50
Johann: Good on working isn't a bad reservation. Sokh chomreoun

2020 Jan 12 21:16:12
Cheav Villa: I kana in working conditions in the ministry  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 12 17:24:45
Johann: How is Nyom Villa doing? Seems as if more reserved

2020 Jan 11 21:30:11
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 11 21:27:10
Johann: On the other side it's just visible for Aramika, so also fine to leave it as it is.

2020 Jan 11 21:18:06
Johann: but possible good to change it, since looking of course strange

2020 Jan 11 21:17:02
Johann: The visitor account, since enail needed, has Atmas email, yes. Nothing wrong, Nyom.

2020 Jan 11 21:10:13
Cheav Villa: Mr. Visitor is using Bhante mail on Sangham ^-^ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 11 17:28:39
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

2020 Jan 11 17:19:29
Johann: Well then. Mudita. And to use old account is also no problem, or a new one.

2020 Jan 11 17:13:25
Visitor:  *sgift* Will return soon. will share one from lot.  :) Stay healthy. Be happy.

2020 Jan 11 17:06:13
Johann: Sure, why not? An also sure that Atma will try what ever possible that Nyom-Deva would take on existance where Dhamma can completely comprehended. My Nyom do as he feels fit and inspired.

2020 Jan 11 17:03:02
Visitor: For I am out of community and practice to be independent too -- decided when couldn't find Gem(liberated one, buddha, venerable).

2020 Jan 11 17:00:13
Visitor: If I share one of those practices, will uncle allow that? Will uncle give way to me to give as a 'Visitor'? Even when it's out of community.

2020 Jan 11 16:57:53
Johann: It's importand to see that liberation is possible, and people having gained independency are met = Savaka Sangha

2020 Jan 11 16:55:26
Johann: It's importand, aside of the deva-messangers, birth, sickness, aging death, to meet the Buddha, Arahat, Samana, so that real Saddha may arise. Books hardly can provide such "it's not just a story"

2020 Jan 11 16:50:04
Visitor: Practice leads to experience -coming slowly-2 me already. Did uncle find any Gems(Ven. Buddha) to associate with?

2020 Jan 11 16:45:42
Johann: Only by practicing and association with the Gems can Dhamma be gained. Consuming 1000 book wouldn't help

2020 Jan 11 16:43:02
Johann: What does one, seeing his decay, keep him from sharing?

2020 Jan 11 16:41:31
Johann: Giving ways to let others give is also a-maccariya

2020 Jan 11 16:39:42
Johann: And books are lasting? Sharing about oldage, sickness and death is teaching the 1 Noble truth very real, or?

2020 Jan 11 16:35:58
Visitor: What does old uncle want to offer when he is also impermanent? Dhamma-it's already in books! Experience-it will come soon to me too.

2020 Jan 11 16:30:29
Johann: If needing something, just let it be known (any language

2020 Jan 11 16:29:50
Johann: Nyom unknown

2020 Jan 11 16:28:47
Visitor:  *thumb* :-\ :( ;-) *gift*

2020 Jan 11 08:13:55
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2020 Jan 11 08:11:25
Moritz: Oh, I just wanted to write something to you, Bong Villa. But now have to go, driving taxi. ^-^ Later. _/\_ Chom reap leah

2020 Jan 11 08:05:56
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 11 07:46:49
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2020 Jan 10 19:57:45
Johann: Bhante

2020 Jan 10 19:37:57
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

2020 Jan 10 16:11:19
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 10 12:07:13
Johann: Sokh chomreoun Nyom

2020 Jan 10 11:34:53
Moritz: Chom reap leah _/\_

2020 Jan 10 11:08:47
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2020 Jan 10 11:00:22
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 10 06:05:50
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 10 05:02:29
Johann: May those keeping the full moon Uposatha today, spend an auspicious time engaged in merits

2020 Jan 09 20:17:28
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 09 20:07:28
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 09 18:57:51
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Those who have confidence in the Awakened One have confidence in what is supreme; and for those with confidence in the supreme, supreme is the result.

2020 Jan 09 17:33:14
Cheav Villa:  :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 09 16:13:20
Johann: No problem at all.

2020 Jan 09 16:12:52
Johann: Atma wrote: Oh, master Moritz celebrates his Birthday today. And if remembering right, just one day before Mastress Sophorn.

2020 Jan 09 16:11:21
Johann:  :)

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Author Topic: [Q&A] Are monks allowed to receive government benefit such as allowance pension?  (Read 990 times)

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Offline Johann

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Are monks allowed to receive government benefits such as allowance or pension?

Quote from: Question raised by SarathW , 1.4.2017 on DW
Are monks allowed to receive government benefits such as allowance or pension?

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

 _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community _/\_ , my person tries to answer this question. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,


- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

This question needs further clarification in regard of the question first:

First: A monk (Bhikkhu) is allowed to receive from everyone, person or group, as long he has reason to assume that they give what is actually their own and the "bowl has not be turned over" in regard of the potential giver by a Saṅghakamma in line with Dhamma and Vinaya.

Secound: A monk (Bhikkhu) is allowed to make use of carity for the poor, in cases of urgend need, for two or three times (not remembering the exact no. now)

So the further question in regard of the first point might be: are governments generally recognize able as giver in regard of the first point.
If a certain Government, better the Governor, has sovereign power of the money and poroperty it is given to use, yes.
If a certain Government is merely a "Public Trustee" of what is actually owned by many, no. Why? Because the or a part of the owner might disagree, actually do disagree naturally and would rightly not feel pleased and touched by feelings of fear and aversion if their possession gets "stolen"

Spoken for usual situations: Its not possible, better proper or allowed for Bhikhus, and it's akusala kamma to make use of property that is dedicated to a certain group. One who has left home is neither able to nurish such fonds nor does he/she participate in eating on the same table. He/she stands outside of the kamma caused be such community gainings, ways of supply and use. This counts not only for Govermental assurances, fonds and supplies of such a kind but also to make use of private organiced fond if they are not exclusively dedicated for the Saṅgha and Monks are invited to make use of it.
At least, pensions, health and other services are not given automaticaly but requested personal. So no, a Bhikkhu is in no way possible allowed to make use of such.

In cases where Government, or better Governor have practical soverein power of what the act with, yes. For example here in Cambodia the Government supports and supplys a hospitals feature to take care of medical needs for Monks, consciously, with joy and invited. In such a case, it would be possible in according to Vinaya but still remains in the sphere of the single persons conscience to be possible to make use of it and as well the certain situation when actually approaching there. So to understand this proper in line with Dhamma, there is no such as a right for it and at least depends always on the goodness given in certain situations to one.

In reagard of making use of the carity dedicated for those in need for one or two times and if in need: in the case such a charity is given by a proper owner, see accounts in this regard before, one (a monk)can make use of such in need, for oneto three times. If the giver is again, known just as a "Trustee" and has no soverein power to make use of what he might hold, again: No.
This will match again certain or most Governmental carity undertaking. In regarded of private share of own possession for carity, yes, one (a monk) would be able to make use of it.

Mt person likes to comment in addition a maybe much with "equanimity" colored comment by Ven. Lucky

I know one monk who gets his government pension sent to his children instead of him, for their use.
I know another monk who is not very strict with his vinaya rules, who keeps it in a bank account with his name on it, but simply does not use it.
And I know another old monk who has declined to get a pension at all, which surprised the pension office very much! They'd never heard of someone refusing money before!

The giving of allowed things to ones near blood relatives if they are in need is allowed. The accepting, holding make use or make others make one of it, is not allowed. As to speak of the first case.
The secound case could be possible in line of Vinaya, since it could be that he has mentaly, verbal and bodily have already given up all the claims of it. How would be possible to "delete" and "reject" if not his own or seen as such now?
The third case seems to be the proper way, but still asking, did the pension officer approach him? Or did he order what should be done or not done with what he might assumed as his?

So here again my personal advice for those who like to support especially medical care: Do not found fonds with are mixed or nurished by other sociaties aside of the Sangha a conscious donors for that and be obligated in all of this cases, since a Monks is only allowed to ask laypeople for medical support if biten by a snake. In all other cases he depends behind of pupil, teacher, his community, on possible avaliable blood relatives or and mostly on wise and generous donors in each case. He would in good ways never approach "I have head ache!"

Althought my person readed a Bhikkhus argument, that Bhikkhus need money to pay duties to the Government (e.g. social assurances...) to justify the monks need of money, its not the case that one who left home rightous has obligations to homes social obligations.

A person still living in dependency of home, wearing signs of a householder can not be seen as someone who as gone forth even outwardly.

For more, even still not clear declared in this regard and accurate urgency see: Staatenlosigkeit - Ordination unmöglich für Westler (Nichtbuddhistische Kultur)?   (no translation into Enghlish for now)


[Correction and Translation of the text would be good]
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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It would be good if Ven. Nyanadassana would, out of compassion citicice what should be criticed, praise what should be praised, and explain further what should be explained further and in detail.

 _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

It would be good if you, Guest, invite other Venerables to participate, out of compassion, likewise and forward and share in such a way the merits.

Of course it would be good if the original questioner an participator on the discusdion on DW would be informed of the answer.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 01:32:51 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann