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Author Topic: [Q&A] Are monks allowed to receive government benefit such as allowance pension?  (Read 349 times)

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Offline Johann

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Are monks allowed to receive government benefits such as allowance or pension?

Quote from: Question raised by SarathW , 1.4.2017 on DW
Are monks allowed to receive government benefits such as allowance or pension?

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

 _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community _/\_ , my person tries to answer this question. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,


- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

This question needs further clarification in regard of the question first:

First: A monk (Bhikkhu) is allowed to receive from everyone, person or group, as long he has reason to assume that they give what is actually their own and the "bowl has not be turned over" in regard of the potential giver by a Saṅghakamma in line with Dhamma and Vinaya.

Secound: A monk (Bhikkhu) is allowed to make use of carity for the poor, in cases of urgend need, for two or three times (not remembering the exact no. now)

So the further question in regard of the first point might be: are governments generally recognize able as giver in regard of the first point.
If a certain Government, better the Governor, has sovereign power of the money and poroperty it is given to use, yes.
If a certain Government is merely a "Public Trustee" of what is actually owned by many, no. Why? Because the or a part of the owner might disagree, actually do disagree naturally and would rightly not feel pleased and touched by feelings of fear and aversion if their possession gets "stolen"

Spoken for usual situations: Its not possible, better proper or allowed for Bhikhus, and it's akusala kamma to make use of property that is dedicated to a certain group. One who has left home is neither able to nurish such fonds nor does he/she participate in eating on the same table. He/she stands outside of the kamma caused be such community gainings, ways of supply and use. This counts not only for Govermental assurances, fonds and supplies of such a kind but also to make use of private organiced fond if they are not exclusively dedicated for the Saṅgha and Monks are invited to make use of it.
At least, pensions, health and other services are not given automaticaly but requested personal. So no, a Bhikkhu is in no way possible allowed to make use of such.

In cases where Government, or better Governor have practical soverein power of what the act with, yes. For example here in Cambodia the Government supports and supplys a hospitals feature to take care of medical needs for Monks, consciously, with joy and invited. In such a case, it would be possible in according to Vinaya but still remains in the sphere of the single persons conscience to be possible to make use of it and as well the certain situation when actually approaching there. So to understand this proper in line with Dhamma, there is no such as a right for it and at least depends always on the goodness given in certain situations to one.

In reagard of making use of the carity dedicated for those in need for one or two times and if in need: in the case such a charity is given by a proper owner, see accounts in this regard before, one (a monk)can make use of such in need, for oneto three times. If the giver is again, known just as a "Trustee" and has no soverein power to make use of what he might hold, again: No.
This will match again certain or most Governmental carity undertaking. In regarded of private share of own possession for carity, yes, one (a monk) would be able to make use of it.

Mt person likes to comment in addition a maybe much with "equanimity" colored comment by Ven. Lucky

I know one monk who gets his government pension sent to his children instead of him, for their use.
I know another monk who is not very strict with his vinaya rules, who keeps it in a bank account with his name on it, but simply does not use it.
And I know another old monk who has declined to get a pension at all, which surprised the pension office very much! They'd never heard of someone refusing money before!

The giving of allowed things to ones near blood relatives if they are in need is allowed. The accepting, holding make use or make others make one of it, is not allowed. As to speak of the first case.
The secound case could be possible in line of Vinaya, since it could be that he has mentaly, verbal and bodily have already given up all the claims of it. How would be possible to "delete" and "reject" if not his own or seen as such now?
The third case seems to be the proper way, but still asking, did the pension officer approach him? Or did he order what should be done or not done with what he might assumed as his?

So here again my personal advice for those who like to support especially medical care: Do not found fonds with are mixed or nurished by other sociaties aside of the Sangha a conscious donors for that and be obligated in all of this cases, since a Monks is only allowed to ask laypeople for medical support if biten by a snake. In all other cases he depends behind of pupil, teacher, his community, on possible avaliable blood relatives or and mostly on wise and generous donors in each case. He would in good ways never approach "I have head ache!"

Althought my person readed a Bhikkhus argument, that Bhikkhus need money to pay duties to the Government (e.g. social assurances...) to justify the monks need of money, its not the case that one who left home rightous has obligations to homes social obligations.

A person still living in dependency of home, wearing signs of a householder can not be seen as someone who as gone forth even outwardly.

For more, even still not clear declared in this regard and accurate urgency see: Staatenlosigkeit - Ordination unmöglich für Westler (Nichtbuddhistische Kultur)?   (no translation into Enghlish for now)


[Correction and Translation of the text would be good]
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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It would be good if Ven. Nyanadassana would, out of compassion citicice what should be criticed, praise what should be praised, and explain further what should be explained further and in detail.

 _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

It would be good if you, Guest, invite other Venerables to participate, out of compassion, likewise and forward and share in such a way the merits.

Of course it would be good if the original questioner an participator on the discusdion on DW would be informed of the answer.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 08:32:51 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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March 21, 2018, 03:42:55 PM


March 21, 2018, 03:32:47 PM
 :-* mögen sie alle noch in diesem leben das herz von avijja befreien!!! :-*


March 19, 2018, 05:20:12 AM
This "wiki"-like backup tool is meant as a outwardy insurance that one does not be afraid that anything possible good can be desroyed or made bad while looking for cleaning it. So worry at all, kamma does not dissapear. No need to fear to make good deeds, knowing that.


March 19, 2018, 04:03:35 AM
And there is no intention to just make a museum out of a working and concentration camp, since the Dhamma can not be understood by just looking on forms but by learning and experiance skillful deeds.


March 19, 2018, 04:00:47 AM
Post-history: http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,1164.0.html (but there is no notification system). My person uses to make a @mention , off topic "/me" in the OP.


March 19, 2018, 03:49:28 AM
Or to simply make a new post. No need to be shy in doing good things. It's not a museum, it's a working and concentration place. Mudita.


March 19, 2018, 03:47:57 AM
There is such as a "wiki" backup function in all posts, Nyom Danilo. Good is to use the mention option, at the places where making changes @Johann , that it gets not "lost".


March 19, 2018, 03:02:46 AM
I have a backup of the original post in any case. I might review the second post next time. Very insightful teaching. _/\_


March 19, 2018, 03:01:35 AM
I've recently fixed many words and sentences of the first post of the thread "Debts, but to whom?". It take me some time trying to figure out the meaning of some sentences. So it would be good if Bhante could check if the original intended meaning of the post still intact. I have a backup of the ori


March 19, 2018, 01:57:28 AM
_/\_ _/\_ _/\_


March 19, 2018, 12:01:09 AM
One leading to peaks pointing downward so that aging, sickness and death can be seen, know him/her as a sage, a giver of release.


March 18, 2018, 11:57:30 PM
One leading people to papanca, promoting rejoicing in objectification as the heart wood, increases to fields of corpse in the world.


March 18, 2018, 12:03:14 AM
Good night _/\_


March 17, 2018, 11:59:14 PM
Vandami, Bhante _/\_


March 17, 2018, 11:51:37 PM


March 16, 2018, 01:19:17 AM


March 15, 2018, 09:53:07 PM
 :-* ich wünschen allen einen verdienstvollen uposatha  :-*


March 14, 2018, 11:19:11 PM
Sounds like a good idea to rest. I will be taking a break from the internet for a while i feel detached a lot from the worldly feminisms and all. It is wonderful not to be lusting, walking the streets with lowered gaze, delighting in meditation... I fear it compromises me to even think about the pol


March 14, 2018, 11:10:27 PM


March 14, 2018, 10:58:38 PM
Marcel, Morits, Upasaka X, it's time to break up this auspicious coming in touch now also for my person. Observe, remember, how you have been yesterday an now and guess of what will be tomorrow probably... maybe just not sure.


March 14, 2018, 10:06:46 PM
Sadhu, _/\_

may Bhante have a peaceful day.

Chom reap sour.


March 14, 2018, 09:58:42 PM
 :-* :-* :-*


March 14, 2018, 09:55:00 PM
O yes... will be a long day, this yesterday, but possible a remorseless.


March 14, 2018, 09:46:45 PM
Vandami Bhante,
good evening (morning in Cambodia?).



March 14, 2018, 03:03:38 AM
Wie war es gestern? Wie geht es heute?

How was it yesterday? How are you today?


March 06, 2018, 02:24:03 PM
Nyom Jens.


March 05, 2018, 02:25:22 PM
 :-* erhwürdiger bhante johann  :-*


March 05, 2018, 02:17:57 PM
Nyom Marcel


March 01, 2018, 12:52:02 AM
Sadhu, eine des Magha-puja allen jenen die sie heute Begehen.


February 28, 2018, 09:48:58 PM
 :-* allen ein verdienstvollen uposatha tag :-*


February 24, 2018, 02:37:41 AM


February 24, 2018, 01:31:25 AM


February 24, 2018, 12:50:00 AM
Es ist sehr selten, ungewöhnlich und erfreulich, zur Mitfreude anregend, junge Menschen Kloster aufsuchend zu sehen.


February 23, 2018, 02:56:54 PM
Namasakara, Bhante _/\_


February 23, 2018, 04:04:45 AM


February 23, 2018, 02:16:16 AM
Nyom Danilo.
(Atma will leave for a while for his almsround.)


February 22, 2018, 10:08:41 PM
 :-* ehrwürdiger bhante johann, ja ich ahb die khmer tastatur installiert! ich werde in den nächsten tagen text teilen und berichten!  :-*


February 22, 2018, 12:34:06 PM
Hat Nyom Marcel schon eine Khmer Tastatur installiert?


February 22, 2018, 12:32:21 PM
So ist das. Wenn Nahrung aufgebraucht, dann ist da für eine Weile Ende, und Wiedergeboren, es wieder brennen wird. Zum endgültigen legen des Feuers sind wir hier, oder? Pfau ruft, Gecko balzt, alles in Ordnung, oder?


February 22, 2018, 12:16:35 PM
 :-* ehrwürdiger bhante johann, letzte nacht davon geträumt, dass es beim ashram brennt!!
ich hoffe, das feuer hat sich gelegt  :-*


February 22, 2018, 11:43:37 AM
Nyom Marcel.


February 22, 2018, 09:08:57 AM


February 22, 2018, 08:49:51 AM
Möge Regen kommen und alle beschützt werden


February 22, 2018, 01:59:08 AM


February 22, 2018, 01:04:19 AM
ich  wünsche einen verdienstvollen uposatha!! all jende für morgen auch einen hervorragenden uposatha!!!
 :-* :-* :-*


February 19, 2018, 06:00:04 PM
Much joy and releasing touches here, Nyom Chris, my person will leave for today, befor it becomes tomorrow, and rest a little.


February 14, 2018, 03:57:33 PM
Sadhu, auch jenen, die ihn morgen, auch Chinesisches Neujahrsfest, begehen, einhalten.


February 14, 2018, 01:37:51 PM
einen verdienstvollen uposatha allen!!!


February 10, 2018, 12:31:09 PM
Sadhu! Mag er fruchtvoll verlaufen sein. Gerade wieder Möglichkeit erhalten, in dieser Welt hier beizutragen.


February 08, 2018, 12:46:43 PM
 :-* :-* :-* ich wünsche allen einen verdienstvollen uposatha  :-* :-* :-*

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