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Author Topic: [Q&A] Are monks allowed to receive government benefit such as allowance pension?  (Read 175 times)

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Offline Johann

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Are monks allowed to receive government benefits such as allowance or pension?

Quote from: Question raised by SarathW , 1.4.2017 on DW
Are monks allowed to receive government benefits such as allowance or pension?

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

 _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community _/\_ , my person tries to answer this question. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,

 *sgift*

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

This question needs further clarification in regard of the question first:

First: A monk (Bhikkhu) is allowed to receive from everyone, person or group, as long he has reason to assume that they give what is actually their own and the "bowl has not be turned over" in regard of the potential giver by a Saṅghakamma in line with Dhamma and Vinaya.

Secound: A monk (Bhikkhu) is allowed to make use of carity for the poor, in cases of urgend need, for two or three times (not remembering the exact no. now)

So the further question in regard of the first point might be: are governments generally recognize able as giver in regard of the first point.
If a certain Government, better the Governor, has sovereign power of the money and poroperty it is given to use, yes.
If a certain Government is merely a "Public Trustee" of what is actually owned by many, no. Why? Because the or a part of the owner might disagree, actually do disagree naturally and would rightly not feel pleased and touched by feelings of fear and aversion if their possession gets "stolen"

Spoken for usual situations: Its not possible, better proper or allowed for Bhikhus, and it's akusala kamma to make use of property that is dedicated to a certain group. One who has left home is neither able to nurish such fonds nor does he/she participate in eating on the same table. He/she stands outside of the kamma caused be such community gainings, ways of supply and use. This counts not only for Govermental assurances, fonds and supplies of such a kind but also to make use of private organiced fond if they are not exclusively dedicated for the Saṅgha and Monks are invited to make use of it.
At least, pensions, health and other services are not given automaticaly but requested personal. So no, a Bhikkhu is in no way possible allowed to make use of such.

In cases where Government, or better Governor have practical soverein power of what the act with, yes. For example here in Cambodia the Government supports and supplys a hospitals feature to take care of medical needs for Monks, consciously, with joy and invited. In such a case, it would be possible in according to Vinaya but still remains in the sphere of the single persons conscience to be possible to make use of it and as well the certain situation when actually approaching there. So to understand this proper in line with Dhamma, there is no such as a right for it and at least depends always on the goodness given in certain situations to one.

In reagard of making use of the carity dedicated for those in need for one or two times and if in need: in the case such a charity is given by a proper owner, see accounts in this regard before, one (a monk)can make use of such in need, for oneto three times. If the giver is again, known just as a "Trustee" and has no soverein power to make use of what he might hold, again: No.
This will match again certain or most Governmental carity undertaking. In regarded of private share of own possession for carity, yes, one (a monk) would be able to make use of it.

Mt person likes to comment in addition a maybe much with "equanimity" colored comment by Ven. Lucky

I know one monk who gets his government pension sent to his children instead of him, for their use.
I know another monk who is not very strict with his vinaya rules, who keeps it in a bank account with his name on it, but simply does not use it.
And I know another old monk who has declined to get a pension at all, which surprised the pension office very much! They'd never heard of someone refusing money before!

The giving of allowed things to ones near blood relatives if they are in need is allowed. The accepting, holding make use or make others make one of it, is not allowed. As to speak of the first case.
The secound case could be possible in line of Vinaya, since it could be that he has mentaly, verbal and bodily have already given up all the claims of it. How would be possible to "delete" and "reject" if not his own or seen as such now?
The third case seems to be the proper way, but still asking, did the pension officer approach him? Or did he order what should be done or not done with what he might assumed as his?

So here again my personal advice for those who like to support especially medical care: Do not found fonds with are mixed or nurished by other sociaties aside of the Sangha a conscious donors for that and be obligated in all of this cases, since a Monks is only allowed to ask laypeople for medical support if biten by a snake. In all other cases he depends behind of pupil, teacher, his community, on possible avaliable blood relatives or and mostly on wise and generous donors in each case. He would in good ways never approach "I have head ache!"

Althought my person readed a Bhikkhus argument, that Bhikkhus need money to pay duties to the Government (e.g. social assurances...) to justify the monks need of money, its not the case that one who left home rightous has obligations to homes social obligations.

A person still living in dependency of home, wearing signs of a householder can not be seen as someone who as gone forth even outwardly.

For more, even still not clear declared in this regard and accurate urgency see: Staatenlosigkeit - Ordination unmöglich für Westler (Nichtbuddhistische Kultur)?   (no translation into Enghlish for now)

Anumodana!

[Correction and Translation of the text would be good]
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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It would be good if Ven. Nyanadassana would, out of compassion citicice what should be criticed, praise what should be praised, and explain further what should be explained further and in detail.

 _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

It would be good if you, Guest, invite other Venerables to participate, out of compassion, likewise and forward and share in such a way the merits.

Of course it would be good if the original questioner an participator on the discusdion on DW would be informed of the answer.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 08:32:51 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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Johann

August 20, 2017, 01:37:40 AM
Es ist vielleicht gut eine Pause zu tun, doch kann es gut sein, daß man nicht zurückkehrt, für ein gutes oder schlechtes, für sich selbt und andere. Gut dort wo gut genährt und unterstützt und for allem Konzentration steigt, oder dort wo satt in jeder Hinsicht.
 

Johann

August 10, 2017, 11:31:40 AM
Wenn jemand Lust hat, oder anderen etwas Gutes oder Besseres tun kann und möchte: Korrekturlesen http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,1018.msg9625.html#msg9625 Baue nach und nach, so gut wie möglich ein auf ZzE.
 

Johann

August 07, 2017, 02:24:55 AM
Einen ausübungsreichen Vollmond-Uposatha and Gelegenheit die Mönche zu besuchen wünscht meine Person.
 

Sophorn

July 25, 2017, 03:59:03 PM
... versteht und womöglich sieht, wenn er nicht den Weg hierher
findet.

Großer Dank an alle im Hintergrund.

Mögen all diese Früchte vielfach zurückkommen und inspirieren.

Ayu vanno sukkham balam

 :-* :-* :-*
 

Sophorn

July 25, 2017, 03:55:25 PM
 :-* :-* :-*
karuna tvay bongkum Preah metschah

Herzliches Hallo an alle nach sehr langem!

Ein herzliches Dankeschön aus tiefsten Herzen an alle, die sich hier aktiv und indirekt hier beteiligen. Vor allem ein großes Sadhu an Bhante, der unvergleichliche Arbeit leistet, die kaum jemand ver
 

Johann

July 24, 2017, 03:15:56 AM
Fehlinvestition: Was immer man nicht in die Juwelen, in den Pfad investiert, ist vergeude Mühe, schnurrr einen fest im Rad des Leidens. Prüfen Sie es!   :) Wiederholungstäter...
 

Johann

July 17, 2017, 01:50:17 AM
Moritz
 

Moritz

July 16, 2017, 02:28:02 PM
Namasakara, Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

July 14, 2017, 07:07:17 AM
Moritz. Gut ihn früh Morgens und nicht bis in den frühen Morgen zu sehen.
 

Moritz

July 14, 2017, 07:03:53 AM
Namasakara, Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

July 13, 2017, 08:12:46 AM
Moritz.
 

Moritz

July 13, 2017, 07:42:39 AM
Chom reap lea
_/\_
 

Moritz

July 13, 2017, 07:40:46 AM
Namasakara, Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

July 08, 2017, 02:26:09 AM
Vor mehr als 2500 Jahen wurde a diesem Vollmondtag das Rad des Dhammas in bewegung gesetzt. Anumodana!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

July 02, 2017, 08:24:13 AM
Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann,

ich bedanke mich bei Ihnen für Ihre nette Erklärung.

Dhamma Grüße an Sie aus Sri Lanka!

 

Johann

July 01, 2017, 07:43:41 PM
Nyom Mohan. Besser: "Ich hoffe, daß es Ihnen gut geht." und bestens (ohne suggerieren, wenn interessiert) "Wie geht es Ihnen." Oder: "Möge es Ihnen Gut gehen." (wenn metta ausdrücken wollend)
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

July 01, 2017, 10:43:15 AM
Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann,

ich glaube, dass es Ihnen gut geht.

Dhamma Grüße an Sie aus Sri Lanka!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

July 01, 2017, 10:32:46 AM
Werter Micro,
herzliche Grüße aus Sri Lanka nach Deutschland!
 

Johann

July 01, 2017, 10:32:17 AM
Nyom Mohan.
 

Johann

June 25, 2017, 01:38:38 PM
Alles Zufälle. Nissaya. Und wenn da keine starke Grundlagenursache aufkommt, upanissayapaccayena, na dann war's das, und alles is weg. Lebewesen sind Erben ihrer Taten (im Geist, Wort und Körper).
 

Johann

June 25, 2017, 01:27:24 PM
Schwupps und weg. Waffen und Nahrung geholt.

Oh, was sag ich. Wenn man's doch nehmen kann, auch ohne das Gefühl zu nehmen... Unsinn hier. Hat doch keiner interesse Verdienste zu tun.
 

Johann

June 25, 2017, 01:21:28 PM
Mirco. Wie geht es?
 

Johann

June 25, 2017, 01:20:43 PM
Es ist doch viel angenehmer, wenn man sich nehmen kann was und wann immer man will, oder? Warum sollte man sich so viel antun, da sind genügend die Anbieten.
 

Johann

June 14, 2017, 06:45:07 PM
Jetzt aber vorerst. Möge jeder guten Unterhalt (ung) im Dhamma und Stärkung finden uud sich davon reichlich nehmen.
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

June 11, 2017, 08:24:45 AM
Werter Harry,

ich freue mich darüber, nach einigen Monaten wieder auf sangham.net Sie zu grüßen.

Herzliche Grüße aus Sri Lanka nach Deutschland!
 

Johann

June 09, 2017, 05:05:59 PM
Mögen sich alle, möge sich Guest der Uposatha-Einhaltung nicht nur heute annehmen, und glücksverheißende Zeit verbringen.

May all, may Guest not only today observe the Uposatha and spend auspicious time
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

June 03, 2017, 01:48:08 AM
Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann,

es geht mir zur Zeit gut. Ich glaube, dass es Ihnen auch gut geht.

Dhamma Grüße an Sie aus Sri Lanka!
 

Johann

June 02, 2017, 11:19:32 PM
Wie geht es Upasaka Mohan?
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

June 02, 2017, 10:51:50 PM
Wie sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann geschrieben hat, hatte ich am 10. Mai 2017 meinen  Geburtstag, an dem Tag  in diesem Jahr das Wesakfest gefeiert wurde.
Beste Grüße an Sie aus Sri Lanka!
Mohan Barathi Gnanathilake
 

Johann

June 02, 2017, 12:33:54 PM
Wußte doch, daß so Nahrung immer gefressen werden will.  :)
"Sehr gut, weiter hungern."

Freut das Nyom Marcel wohlauf ist.
 

Marcel

June 02, 2017, 12:20:52 PM
weil "keines" immer noch die bezugnahme auf eines hat!
 

Johann

June 02, 2017, 10:23:46 AM
Wenn zwei mehr als eines sid, warum ist dann keines auch eines?
 

Johann

May 20, 2017, 04:30:26 PM
Moritz
 

Moritz

May 20, 2017, 03:42:08 PM
Namasakara, Bhante. _/\_
 

Johann

May 18, 2017, 09:56:06 AM
Sadhu und Mudita.
 

Moritz

May 18, 2017, 09:53:33 AM
_/\_ _/\_ _/\_
 

Sophorn

May 18, 2017, 09:22:19 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
Wünsche allen einen guten Silatag.
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 16, 2017, 01:45:43 PM
Erfreulich
 

Maria

May 16, 2017, 12:09:45 PM
 :-*Werte Sophorn noch am Flughafen getroffen :)
sitzt im Flieger :-*
 

Johann

May 16, 2017, 02:20:58 AM
Ein Dhammatalk, über ein paar Audiofiles, sicher auch gut für ihre Familie, Mutter... http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,7997.0.html
 

Sophorn

May 16, 2017, 02:17:07 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 16, 2017, 02:11:44 AM
Vielleicht möchte Nyom Maria sie noch gerne am Flughafen verabschieden, wenn sie von der Gelegenheit weis.
 

Johann

May 16, 2017, 02:08:13 AM
Gute Reise und beste Wünsche an alle.
 

Sophorn

May 16, 2017, 02:04:14 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
 karuna tvay bongkum
kana macht sich in knapp 4h auf den weg nach Wien und dann Richtung K. Ankunft morgen in PP.
gerade ist kana am Sammeln vor der Abreise.
kana wünscht Bhante gute Genesung.
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 16, 2017, 01:48:42 AM
Nyom Sophorn. Wieder zurück im Land der Khmer? Mag Reise und Aufenthalt angenehm gewesen sein.
 

Johann

May 10, 2017, 09:51:50 AM
Qi-Van-Chi
 

Johann

May 10, 2017, 01:30:17 AM
Verdienstreiche und befreiende Vesak - Pūjā allen, heute.
 

Johann

May 09, 2017, 09:20:24 AM
Atma will rest a little today and use the "hair cut day" to maintain his body a little for tomorrow's Puja, so see, Moritz has won a whole day today, maybe use it for same. Best wishes!
 

Moritz

May 09, 2017, 08:58:33 AM
Namasakara Bhante.
May you have a good Vesakha Puja!
_/\_
 

Johann

May 08, 2017, 10:43:50 AM
Viel Freude beim Aufräumen und angenehmes "Brotverdienen"

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