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[Buddha]

Author Topic: [Q&A] Are monks allowed to receive government benefit such as allowance pension?  (Read 513 times)

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Offline Johann

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  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Are monks allowed to receive government benefits such as allowance or pension?

Quote from: Question raised by SarathW , 1.4.2017 on DW
Are monks allowed to receive government benefits such as allowance or pension?

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

 _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community _/\_ , my person tries to answer this question. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,

 *sgift*

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

This question needs further clarification in regard of the question first:

First: A monk (Bhikkhu) is allowed to receive from everyone, person or group, as long he has reason to assume that they give what is actually their own and the "bowl has not be turned over" in regard of the potential giver by a Saṅghakamma in line with Dhamma and Vinaya.

Secound: A monk (Bhikkhu) is allowed to make use of carity for the poor, in cases of urgend need, for two or three times (not remembering the exact no. now)

So the further question in regard of the first point might be: are governments generally recognize able as giver in regard of the first point.
If a certain Government, better the Governor, has sovereign power of the money and poroperty it is given to use, yes.
If a certain Government is merely a "Public Trustee" of what is actually owned by many, no. Why? Because the or a part of the owner might disagree, actually do disagree naturally and would rightly not feel pleased and touched by feelings of fear and aversion if their possession gets "stolen"

Spoken for usual situations: Its not possible, better proper or allowed for Bhikhus, and it's akusala kamma to make use of property that is dedicated to a certain group. One who has left home is neither able to nurish such fonds nor does he/she participate in eating on the same table. He/she stands outside of the kamma caused be such community gainings, ways of supply and use. This counts not only for Govermental assurances, fonds and supplies of such a kind but also to make use of private organiced fond if they are not exclusively dedicated for the Saṅgha and Monks are invited to make use of it.
At least, pensions, health and other services are not given automaticaly but requested personal. So no, a Bhikkhu is in no way possible allowed to make use of such.

In cases where Government, or better Governor have practical soverein power of what the act with, yes. For example here in Cambodia the Government supports and supplys a hospitals feature to take care of medical needs for Monks, consciously, with joy and invited. In such a case, it would be possible in according to Vinaya but still remains in the sphere of the single persons conscience to be possible to make use of it and as well the certain situation when actually approaching there. So to understand this proper in line with Dhamma, there is no such as a right for it and at least depends always on the goodness given in certain situations to one.

In reagard of making use of the carity dedicated for those in need for one or two times and if in need: in the case such a charity is given by a proper owner, see accounts in this regard before, one (a monk)can make use of such in need, for oneto three times. If the giver is again, known just as a "Trustee" and has no soverein power to make use of what he might hold, again: No.
This will match again certain or most Governmental carity undertaking. In regarded of private share of own possession for carity, yes, one (a monk) would be able to make use of it.

Mt person likes to comment in addition a maybe much with "equanimity" colored comment by Ven. Lucky

I know one monk who gets his government pension sent to his children instead of him, for their use.
I know another monk who is not very strict with his vinaya rules, who keeps it in a bank account with his name on it, but simply does not use it.
And I know another old monk who has declined to get a pension at all, which surprised the pension office very much! They'd never heard of someone refusing money before!

The giving of allowed things to ones near blood relatives if they are in need is allowed. The accepting, holding make use or make others make one of it, is not allowed. As to speak of the first case.
The secound case could be possible in line of Vinaya, since it could be that he has mentaly, verbal and bodily have already given up all the claims of it. How would be possible to "delete" and "reject" if not his own or seen as such now?
The third case seems to be the proper way, but still asking, did the pension officer approach him? Or did he order what should be done or not done with what he might assumed as his?

So here again my personal advice for those who like to support especially medical care: Do not found fonds with are mixed or nurished by other sociaties aside of the Sangha a conscious donors for that and be obligated in all of this cases, since a Monks is only allowed to ask laypeople for medical support if biten by a snake. In all other cases he depends behind of pupil, teacher, his community, on possible avaliable blood relatives or and mostly on wise and generous donors in each case. He would in good ways never approach "I have head ache!"

Althought my person readed a Bhikkhus argument, that Bhikkhus need money to pay duties to the Government (e.g. social assurances...) to justify the monks need of money, its not the case that one who left home rightous has obligations to homes social obligations.

A person still living in dependency of home, wearing signs of a householder can not be seen as someone who as gone forth even outwardly.

For more, even still not clear declared in this regard and accurate urgency see: Staatenlosigkeit - Ordination unmöglich für Westler (Nichtbuddhistische Kultur)?   (no translation into Enghlish for now)

Anumodana!

[Correction and Translation of the text would be good]
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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It would be good if Ven. Nyanadassana would, out of compassion citicice what should be criticed, praise what should be praised, and explain further what should be explained further and in detail.

 _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

It would be good if you, Guest, invite other Venerables to participate, out of compassion, likewise and forward and share in such a way the merits.

Of course it would be good if the original questioner an participator on the discusdion on DW would be informed of the answer.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 08:32:51 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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Plauderbox

 

Marcel

Today at 01:48:24 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
Bhante johann, hier ist alles bestens!  Bis brauche ich nichts! Wenn bhante indannano Vorort, hat er immer ein offenes ohr für marcel :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

June 24, 2018, 01:54:29 PM
Alles bestens? Fehlt Nyom Marcel etwas? Gut eingelebt? Hat Bhante genug Möglichkeiten für Zeit für Nyom?
 

Marcel

June 24, 2018, 01:32:05 PM
 :-* :-* :-*
Bhante Johann
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

June 24, 2018, 11:46:14 AM
Nyom Marcel
 

Johann

June 24, 2018, 07:20:42 AM
Meister Moritz
 

Moritz

June 24, 2018, 06:34:32 AM
Guten Morgen, Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

June 23, 2018, 06:17:20 AM
Moritz
 

Moritz

June 23, 2018, 05:03:03 AM
Good night _/\_
 

Johann

June 21, 2018, 01:52:05 AM
Sadhu!
 

Sophorn

June 20, 2018, 08:42:25 PM
Möge es ein verdienstvoller Uposatha für alle sein!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Marcel

June 19, 2018, 07:41:34 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
Bhante Johann, ich habe die Daten für mein sangham email nicht!! Ich bitte Sie mir diese, aus Mitgefühl, zukommen zu lassen. :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 07:09:43 AM
Hat Nyom Marcel, Khemakumara, noch PW für seine sangham email? Wenn nicht vergibt Atma neues und sendet es an die Adressen wie zuvor.
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 07:00:27 AM
_/\_ Okasa Bhante, if Bhante likes to give a teaching in regard of Vandami, out of compassion, his merits would be joyful received.
 

Indaññāno

June 19, 2018, 06:55:59 AM
សង្ឃ
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 06:40:35 AM
_/\_ Bhante Indannano _/\_
 

Marcel

June 19, 2018, 02:48:19 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
Bhante Johann, i will let you all khnow when the final going forth has been requested :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 02:39:20 AM
If Bhante has lost account and email settings, let it be known, that my person sends it to marcel@sangham.net
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 02:37:20 AM
Let all know when the final going forth has been simply requested, simply received, to be able to rejoice with it.
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 02:33:42 AM
Let all know when the final going forth has been simply requested, simply received, to be able to rejoice with it.
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 02:31:03 AM
Nyom Marcel
 

Johann

June 17, 2018, 07:18:53 PM
Bestes Gelingen und Freude dabei.
 

Moritz

June 17, 2018, 05:19:19 PM
Ich verabschiede mich für heut, muss andere Arbeit tun. Einen schönen Sonntag.
_/\_
 

Johann

June 17, 2018, 02:30:10 PM
Mudita
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 02:19:16 PM
 :-* :-* :-* die Übung ist besser als im "alten haus"  Zuversicht, geduld und Respekt über den drei juwelen ist da!!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 02:19:05 PM
 :-* :-* :-* die Übung ist besser als im "alten haus"  Zuversicht, geduld und Respekt über den drei juwelen ist da!!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 02:19:02 PM
 :-* :-* :-* die Übung ist besser als im "alten haus"  Zuversicht, geduld und Respekt über den drei juwelen ist da!!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

June 17, 2018, 01:53:53 PM
Wie immer recht, Nyom. Wie stets mit der Übung und allem neu und unperfekt?
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 01:42:40 PM
 :-*  :-* :-* anumodana :-* :-* :-*
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 01:40:03 PM
 :-* :-* :-*

Der ehrwürdige bhante besitzt noch den pc ! Bhante idananno ist für 2 Tage nach phnom phen. Wenn bhante wieder. Da ist, werde ich ihn  fragen und mich darum kümmern dass bhante  einen Zugang zum onlinekloster bekommt!  :-* :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

June 17, 2018, 01:26:26 PM
Hat Bhante noch den alten PC und das USB modem? Wenn Nyom, nach fragen, seine Sim da reintut, kann er damit sangham.net erreichen. Atma Tel. Nr. 012 345 025 wenn Nyom etwas benötigt.
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 01:23:38 PM
Entwürdiger bhante Johann, alles fein hier! Ich kann nun, über mein altes Handy, auf das online-Kloster zugreifen!
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 01:22:11 PM
Entwürdiger bhante Johann, alles fein hier! Ich kann nun, über mein altes Handy, auf das online-Kloster zugreifen!
 

Johann

June 17, 2018, 01:15:07 PM
Nyom? Marcel? Alles fein?
 

Johann

June 17, 2018, 01:14:25 PM
Atma kann nicht slowenisch, nur etwas Windisch/Kärntnerisch.

Soviele Raunzwörter... nie über Segensausdrücke gestolpert.

Sokh chomreoun, Nyom.
 

Moritz

June 17, 2018, 10:15:01 AM
Pozdravljeni, Guest!
 

Johann

June 16, 2018, 04:39:12 PM
Sadhu, may Nyom nourish on and rejoice with the merits done and gain pleasant and insightful dwellings of access.
 

Moritz

June 16, 2018, 04:32:09 PM
Chom reap lea.
May Bhante have a good day.
_/\_
 

Johann

June 16, 2018, 09:51:31 AM
Sokh chomreoun Nyom.

(May sukha (happiness) grow to its perfection, "previous father/relative")
 

Moritz

June 16, 2018, 09:38:06 AM
Vandami, Bhante.
Ich bin erst mal weg hier.
_/\_
 

Johann

June 12, 2018, 10:15:27 AM
Mag man sich, mag sich jeder, der Erinnerung an den Neumonduposatha, für geschicktes nutzen.

May everyone takes the New-moon Uposatha as a reminder for acting skilfully
 

Johann

June 06, 2018, 07:21:10 PM
Sadhu!
 

Sophorn

June 06, 2018, 03:02:27 AM
Einen verdienstvollen Uposatha heute  :-*
 

Johann

May 29, 2018, 06:44:12 PM
So der Tag mit Sonnenaufgang beginnt, ist selbt in Asien noch viel Gelegenheit dazu.
 

Sophorn

May 29, 2018, 05:53:50 PM
Möge heute ein verdienstvoller Tag gewesen sein!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 29, 2018, 11:57:01 AM
Sadhu!
 

Marcel

May 29, 2018, 11:37:19 AM
 :-* :-* :-*

mögen sie alle ein verdienstvollen uposatha haben!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 22, 2018, 10:11:37 AM
Sadhu!
 

Marcel

May 22, 2018, 09:37:30 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
einen verdienstvollen uposatha wünsche ich allen  :-* :-* :-*
 

Marcel

May 19, 2018, 03:07:57 PM
 :-* :-* :-*

ehrwürdiger bhante

 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 19, 2018, 03:05:38 PM
Nyom Marcel.

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