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[Buddha]

Author Topic: [Q&A] Are monks allowed to receive government benefit such as allowance pension?  (Read 418 times)

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Offline Johann

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Are monks allowed to receive government benefits such as allowance or pension?

Quote from: Question raised by SarathW , 1.4.2017 on DW
Are monks allowed to receive government benefits such as allowance or pension?

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

 _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community _/\_ , my person tries to answer this question. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,

 *sgift*

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

This question needs further clarification in regard of the question first:

First: A monk (Bhikkhu) is allowed to receive from everyone, person or group, as long he has reason to assume that they give what is actually their own and the "bowl has not be turned over" in regard of the potential giver by a Saṅghakamma in line with Dhamma and Vinaya.

Secound: A monk (Bhikkhu) is allowed to make use of carity for the poor, in cases of urgend need, for two or three times (not remembering the exact no. now)

So the further question in regard of the first point might be: are governments generally recognize able as giver in regard of the first point.
If a certain Government, better the Governor, has sovereign power of the money and poroperty it is given to use, yes.
If a certain Government is merely a "Public Trustee" of what is actually owned by many, no. Why? Because the or a part of the owner might disagree, actually do disagree naturally and would rightly not feel pleased and touched by feelings of fear and aversion if their possession gets "stolen"

Spoken for usual situations: Its not possible, better proper or allowed for Bhikhus, and it's akusala kamma to make use of property that is dedicated to a certain group. One who has left home is neither able to nurish such fonds nor does he/she participate in eating on the same table. He/she stands outside of the kamma caused be such community gainings, ways of supply and use. This counts not only for Govermental assurances, fonds and supplies of such a kind but also to make use of private organiced fond if they are not exclusively dedicated for the Saṅgha and Monks are invited to make use of it.
At least, pensions, health and other services are not given automaticaly but requested personal. So no, a Bhikkhu is in no way possible allowed to make use of such.

In cases where Government, or better Governor have practical soverein power of what the act with, yes. For example here in Cambodia the Government supports and supplys a hospitals feature to take care of medical needs for Monks, consciously, with joy and invited. In such a case, it would be possible in according to Vinaya but still remains in the sphere of the single persons conscience to be possible to make use of it and as well the certain situation when actually approaching there. So to understand this proper in line with Dhamma, there is no such as a right for it and at least depends always on the goodness given in certain situations to one.

In reagard of making use of the carity dedicated for those in need for one or two times and if in need: in the case such a charity is given by a proper owner, see accounts in this regard before, one (a monk)can make use of such in need, for oneto three times. If the giver is again, known just as a "Trustee" and has no soverein power to make use of what he might hold, again: No.
This will match again certain or most Governmental carity undertaking. In regarded of private share of own possession for carity, yes, one (a monk) would be able to make use of it.

Mt person likes to comment in addition a maybe much with "equanimity" colored comment by Ven. Lucky

I know one monk who gets his government pension sent to his children instead of him, for their use.
I know another monk who is not very strict with his vinaya rules, who keeps it in a bank account with his name on it, but simply does not use it.
And I know another old monk who has declined to get a pension at all, which surprised the pension office very much! They'd never heard of someone refusing money before!

The giving of allowed things to ones near blood relatives if they are in need is allowed. The accepting, holding make use or make others make one of it, is not allowed. As to speak of the first case.
The secound case could be possible in line of Vinaya, since it could be that he has mentaly, verbal and bodily have already given up all the claims of it. How would be possible to "delete" and "reject" if not his own or seen as such now?
The third case seems to be the proper way, but still asking, did the pension officer approach him? Or did he order what should be done or not done with what he might assumed as his?

So here again my personal advice for those who like to support especially medical care: Do not found fonds with are mixed or nurished by other sociaties aside of the Sangha a conscious donors for that and be obligated in all of this cases, since a Monks is only allowed to ask laypeople for medical support if biten by a snake. In all other cases he depends behind of pupil, teacher, his community, on possible avaliable blood relatives or and mostly on wise and generous donors in each case. He would in good ways never approach "I have head ache!"

Althought my person readed a Bhikkhus argument, that Bhikkhus need money to pay duties to the Government (e.g. social assurances...) to justify the monks need of money, its not the case that one who left home rightous has obligations to homes social obligations.

A person still living in dependency of home, wearing signs of a householder can not be seen as someone who as gone forth even outwardly.

For more, even still not clear declared in this regard and accurate urgency see: Staatenlosigkeit - Ordination unmöglich für Westler (Nichtbuddhistische Kultur)?   (no translation into Enghlish for now)

Anumodana!

[Correction and Translation of the text would be good]
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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It would be good if Ven. Nyanadassana would, out of compassion citicice what should be criticed, praise what should be praised, and explain further what should be explained further and in detail.

 _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

It would be good if you, Guest, invite other Venerables to participate, out of compassion, likewise and forward and share in such a way the merits.

Of course it would be good if the original questioner an participator on the discusdion on DW would be informed of the answer.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 08:32:51 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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March 25, 2018, 01:40:14 PM
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March 21, 2018, 03:32:47 PM
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Johann

March 19, 2018, 05:20:12 AM
This "wiki"-like backup tool is meant as a outwardy insurance that one does not be afraid that anything possible good can be desroyed or made bad while looking for cleaning it. So worry at all, kamma does not dissapear. No need to fear to make good deeds, knowing that.
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 04:03:35 AM
And there is no intention to just make a museum out of a working and concentration camp, since the Dhamma can not be understood by just looking on forms but by learning and experiance skillful deeds.
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 04:00:47 AM
Post-history: http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,1164.0.html (but there is no notification system). My person uses to make a @mention , off topic "/me" in the OP.
 

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March 19, 2018, 03:49:28 AM
Or to simply make a new post. No need to be shy in doing good things. It's not a museum, it's a working and concentration place. Mudita.
 

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March 19, 2018, 03:47:57 AM
There is such as a "wiki" backup function in all posts, Nyom Danilo. Good is to use the mention option, at the places where making changes @Johann , that it gets not "lost".
 

Danilo

March 19, 2018, 03:02:46 AM
I have a backup of the original post in any case. I might review the second post next time. Very insightful teaching. _/\_
 

Danilo

March 19, 2018, 03:01:35 AM
I've recently fixed many words and sentences of the first post of the thread "Debts, but to whom?". It take me some time trying to figure out the meaning of some sentences. So it would be good if Bhante could check if the original intended meaning of the post still intact. I have a backup of the ori
 

Danilo

March 19, 2018, 01:57:28 AM
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