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Autor Thema: Noble Wiedergeburt - Noble rebirth  (Gelesen 98 mal)

Offline Johann

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Noble Wiedergeburt - Noble rebirth
« am: Juni 08, 2017, 02:35:35 Vormittag »
Zitat von: Samaneri Vimalanyani, in Questions​ on pre-anagami status auf d&d
Somewhat related to this topic, though dealing with rebirth in celestial realms instead of the human, is an4.191. (Don't read the English translation on SC, it is substantially different from Bhikkhu Bodhi's, and from translations in other languages.)

In gewisser Weise zu dem Thema passend, auch wenn es über Wiedergeburt in himmlischen Welten, anstelle von menschlicher, handelt, ist AN 4.191. (Ließ (oder habe gelesen) nicht die englische Übersetzung auf SC, sie ist wesentlich anders als die Bhikkhu Bodhis und Übersetzungen in andere Sprachen)

It's about a monastic who has "penetrated the teachings well by view". So I assume that means stream-entry, or at least dhammafollower/faithfollower status. If they pass away "with muddled mindfulness", they are reborn in a celestial realm and don't remember their former dhamma practice at first. However, some trigger helps them to remember, and then the memories come back instantly and "that being quickly reaches distinction". (Quotes from Bhikkhu Bodhi).

Sie handelt über einen Klösterlichen, der "die Lehren, in Sichtweise, gut durchdrungen hat". So nehme ich an, daß dieses Stromerreicher-, oder zumindest Dhamma/Vertrauensanhängerstatus bedeutet. Wenn diese mit "verwirrtem Geist" dahinscheiden, werden sie in einer himmlischen Welt wiedergeboren, und erinnern sich zuerst nicht an deren frühere Dhammaausübung. Doch einige Anstoße helfen ihnen sich zu erinnern, und kommt die Erinnerung unverzüglich zurück und "dieses Wesen erkennt geschwind die Unterscheidung (Zitate von Bhikkhu Bodhi)

This seems to indicate that a reborn sekha might not remember their unshakeable faith and former practice for a while, even when reborn in a celestial realm, where they just pop up with a fully developed body. In the human realm where development takes so long, it would be even more likely that that person would be ignorant about their former practice for a part of their life, until they somehow come in contact with the Dhamma. Then of course they should immediately recognize it.

Dieses scheint anzudeuten, daß ein wiedergeborener Sekha sich seinem unerschütterlichen Vertrauen und früherer Ausübung, für eine Weile, nicht erinnern mag, auch wenn in einer himmlischen Welt wiedergeboren, in der sie einfach mit voll entwickeltem Körper aufkommen. In der Menschenwelt, wo Entwicklung so lange dauert, werde es noch wahrscheinlicher, daß eine Person ignorant gegenüber deren früherer Ausübung, für einen Teil ihres Lebens, wäre, bis sie in irgend einer Weise in Kontakt mit dem Dhamma kommt. Doch dann sollten sie sich dem unverzüglich erinnern.

Es ist gut und für andere hilfreich, hier anzuknüpfen und weiter zu sprechen.
Wenn jemand Übersetzungen des Suttas im Einklang mit dem Dhamma und der Vinaya geben kann, wäre auch das gut.

Wenn nicht einfach selbst erinnert ist es einmal ein1 Mönch mit übermenschlichen Kräften, einmal ein Deva, einmal ein (bekannter) Geist. "Wie wenn Freunde sich wieder treffen: Kannst du dich noch erinnern? Weißt du noch?"


It is good and helpful for others, to stick to that and speak further.
If somebody is able to share translations of the Sutta in line of Dhamma Vinaya, also this would be good.

If not remembering simply by one self, its one time a monk with special powers, one time a Deva or one time a "familary" spirit. "Like as if old good friends meet each other: Do you still remenber? Do you remember how it was?"


Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

1. Sotānugatasuttaṃ

Learning the Teaching

191. "Bhikkhus, if those hearing the Teaching were to practice it verbally, gather the meaning mentally and straighten the view they could expect four benefits. What four?

"Here, bhikkhus, the bhikkhu learns the Teaching as discourses, verse and prose sections, ... re ... and series of questions and answers and becomes learned in that Teaching, He practices it verbally, mentally gathers the meaning and he straightens his view. He dies with confused mindfulness and is born with a certain retinue of gods. There he skillfully voices the Teaching, too. Mindfulness arises to him slowly and he quickly rises to the next higher state. Bhikkhus, this is the first benefit for hearing the Teaching, practicing it verbally and mentally gathering the meaning and straightening the view.

"Again, bhikkhus, the bhikkhu learns the Teaching as discourses, verse and prose sections, ... re ... and series of questions and answers and becomes learned in that Teaching, He practices it verbally, mentally gathers the meaning and he straightens his view. He dies with confused mindfulness and is born with a certain retinue of gods. There he does not voice the Teaching skillfully, becomes successful in teaching the heavenly gathering. Then he recalls isn't it in this Teaching and Discipline that I earlier led the holy life. Mindfulness arises to him slowly and he quickly rises to the next higher state. Like a man clever in knowing the sound of drums, gone to the highway hears the sound of a drum and he does not doubt, whether it is the sound of a drum or not, but concludes it is the sound of a drum. In the same manner the bhikkhu learns the Teaching as discourses, verse and prose sections, ... re ... and series of questions and answers and becomes learned in that Teaching, He practices it verbally, mentally gathers the meaning and he straightens his view. He dies with confused mindfulness and is born with a certain retinue of gods. There he does not voice the Teaching skillfully, becomes successful in teaching the heavenly gathering. Then he recalls isn't it in this Teaching and Discipline that I earlier led the holy life. Mindfulness arises to him slowly and he quickly rises to the next higher state. Bhikkhus, this is the second benefit for hearing the Teaching, practicing it verbally and mentally gathering the meaning and straightening the view.

"Again, bhikkhus, the bhikkhu learns the Teaching as discourses, verse and prose sections, ... re ... and series of questions and answers and becomes learned in that Teaching, He practices it verbally, mentally gathers the meaning and he straightens his view. He dies with confused mindfulness and is born with a certain retinue of gods. There he voices the Teaching skillfully, but is not successful in teaching the heavenly gathering. Then he recalls isn't this the Discipline that I earlier led the holy life. Mindfulness arises to him slowly and he quickly rises to the next higher state. Like a man clever in knowing the sound of conches, gone to the highway hears the sound of a conch and he does not doubt, whether it is the sound of a conch or not, but concludes it is the sound of a conch. In the same manner the bhikkhu learns the Teaching as discourses, verse and prose sections, ... re ... and series of questions and answers and becomes learned in that Teaching, He practices it verbally, mentally gathers the meaning and he straightens his view. He dies with confused mindfulness and is born with a certain retinue of gods. There he voices the Teaching skillfully, but is not successful in teaching the heavenly gathering. Then he recalls isn't this the Discipline that I earlier led the holy life. Mindfulness arises to him slowly and he quickly rises to the next higher state. Bhikkhus, this is the third benefit for hearing the Teaching, practicing it verbally and mentally gathering the meaning and straightening the view.

"Again, bhikkhus, the bhikkhu learns the Teaching as discourses, verse and prose sections, ... re ... and series of questions and answers and becomes learned in that Teaching, He practices it verbally, mentally gathers the meaning and he straightens his view. He dies with confused mindfulness and is born with a certain retinue of gods. There he voices the Teaching skillfully, is not successful in teaching the heavenly gathering. Yet a spontaneously arisen one recognizes another spontaneously arisen and asks sir, 'Do you remember me?' He says, 'I remember you.' Mindfulness arises to him slowly and he quickly rises to the next higher state. Like two friends who had played together in their childhood were to meet each other some day. Then he would ask, 'Friend, do you remember me.' Then he would ask, 'Do you remember this and this', and he would say, 'Yes friend I remember.' In the same manner the bhikkhu learns the Teaching as discourses, verse and prose sections, ... re ... and series of questions and answers and becomes learned in that Teaching, He practices it verbally, mentally gathers the meaning and straightens his view. He dies with confused mindfulness and is born with a certain retinue of gods. There he voices the Teaching skillfully, is not successful in teaching the heavenly gathering. Yet a spontaneously arisen one recognizes another spontaneously arisen and asks sir, 'Do you remember me?' He says, 'I remember you.' Mindfulness arises to him slowly and he quickly rises to the next higher state. Bhikkhus, this is the fourth benefit for hearing the Teaching, practicing it verbally and mentally gathering the meaning and straightening the view.

"Bhikkhus, these are the four benefits for hearing the Teaching, practicing it verbally and mentally gathering the meaning and straightening the view."[/len]

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

សោតានុគតសូត្រ

[៤១] ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ អានិសង្សទាំងឡាយ ៤ ប្រការ នៃធម៌ដែលចូលទៅ កាន់​ត្រចៀករឿយៗ ជាធម៌ដែលបុគ្គលចាំស្ទាត់ រត់មាត់ ចូលចិត្តច្បាស់លាស់ ចាក់ធ្លុះ ដោយទិដ្ឋិ គឺបញ្ញា រមែងកើតបា្រកដ។ អានិសង្ស ៤ ប្រការ តើដូចម្ដេច។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំង​ឡាយ ភិក្ខុក្នុងសាសនានេះ រៀននូវធម៌ គឺ សុត្តៈ គេយ្យៈ វេយ្យាករណៈ គាថា ឧទានៈ ឥតិវុត្តកៈ ជាតកៈ អព្ភុតធម្មៈ វេទល្លៈ ធម៌ទាំងនោះ ជាសភាវៈ ចូលទៅកាន់ត្រចៀក រឿយៗ នៃភិក្ខុនោះ ដែលបានចាំស្ទាត់ រត់មាត់ ចូលចិត្តច្បាស់លាស់ ចាក់ធ្លុះដោយ ទិដ្ឋិបាន។ ភិក្ខុនោះ ភ្លេចស្មារតី ធ្វើមរណកាលទៅ រមែងចូលទៅកាន់ទេវនិកាយណា​មួយ ។ ចំណែកធម៌ទាំងឡាយ រមែងបា្រកដច្បាស់ ដល់ភិក្ខុនោះ ដែលមានសេចក្ដីសុខ ក្នុង​ទេវនិកាយនោះ។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ការកើតឡើងនៃសតិ ឈ្មោះថាជា ការយឺតយូរ[1] ឯសត្វនោះ វេលា​ដល់នូវគុណវិសេស ក៏ឆាប់រហ័សជាងសតិនោះ។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ នេះជា​អានិសង្ស ទី១ នៃធម៌ ដែលចូលទៅកាន់ត្រចៀករឿយៗ ដែលបុគ្គលចាំស្ទាត់ រត់មាត់ ចូលចិត្តច្បាស់លាស់ ចាក់ឆ្លុះដោយទិដ្ឋិ រមែងកើតបា្រកដ។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ មួយ​ទៀត ភិក្ខុរៀននូវធម៌ គឺ សុត្តៈ គេយ្យៈ វេយ្យាករណៈ គាថា ឧទានៈ ឥតិវុត្តកៈ ជាតកៈ អព្ភុតធម្មៈ វេទល្លៈ ធម៌ទាំងនោះ ជាសភាវៈ ចូលទៅកាន់ត្រចៀករឿយៗ នៃភិក្ខុនោះ​ ដែលបានចាំស្ទាត់ រត់មាត់ ចូលចិត្តច្បាស់លាស់ ចាក់ធ្លុះដោយទិដ្ឋិ។ ភិក្ខុនោះ ភ្លេច​ស្មារតី ធ្វើមរណកាលទៅ រមែងចូលទៅកាន់ទេវនិកាយណាមួយ។ ចំណែក​នៃធម៌​ទាំង​ឡាយ មិនសូវបា្រកដច្បាស់ ដល់ភិក្ខុនោះ ដែលមានសេចក្ដីសុខ ក្នុងទេវនិកាយនោះ ប៉ុន្តែ​ជាអ្នកមានឫទ្ធិ ដល់នូវសេចក្ដីស្ទាត់ជំនាញ ខាងផ្លូវចិត្ត សំដែងធម៌ ដល់ទេវបរិសទ្យ​បាន។ ទេវតានោះ មានសេចក្ដីត្រិះរិះ យ៉ាងនេះថា អាត្មាអញ បាន​ប្រព្រឹត្ត​ព្រហ្មចរិយៈ​អំពីមុន ក្នុងធម្មវិន័យណា នេះគឺធម្មវិន័យនោះឯង។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ការកើតឡើង នៃសតិ ឈ្មោះថា យឺតយូរ សត្វនោះ ដល់នូវគុណវិសេស ឆាប់រហ័សជាងសតិនោះ។ ម្នាល​ភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ប្រៀបដូចជាបុរស ជាអ្នកឈ្លាសវៃខាងសំឡេងស្គរ បុរសនោះ ដើរទៅកាន់ផ្លូវឆ្ងាយ បានឮសំឡេងស្គរ បុរសនោះ ក៏មិនមានសេចក្ដីសង្ស័យ ឬងឿងឆ្ងល់ នឹងសំឡេងស្គរនោះថា សំឡេងស្គរ​មែន ឬមិនមែនសំឡេងស្គរទេ ដូច្នេះឡើយ បុរសនោះ គប្បីដល់នូវសេចក្ដីចូលចិត្តថា សំឡេងស្គរដោយពិត មានឧបមាយ៉ាងណា ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ភិក្ខុរៀននូវធម៌ ក៏មាន​ឧបមេយ្យ ដូច្នោះដែរ។បេ។ ជា​អ្នក​ដល់​នូវគុណវិសេសឆាប់រហ័ស ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ នេះជាអានិសង្ស ទី២ នៃធម៌ ដែល​ចូល​ទៅ​កាន់ត្រចៀករឿយៗ ដែលបុគ្គលចាំស្ទាត់​ រត់មាត់ ចូលចិត្តច្បាស់លាស់ ចាក់ធ្លុះដោយទិដ្ឋិ រមែងកើតបា្រកដ។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ មួយទៀត ភិក្ខុរៀននូវធម៌គឺ សុត្តៈ គេយ្យៈ វេយ្យាករណៈ គាថា ឧទានៈ ឥតិវុត្តកៈ ជាតកៈ អព្ភុតធម្មៈ វេទល្លៈ ធម៌ទាំងនោះ ជាសភាវៈ ចូលទៅកាន់ត្រចៀករឿយៗ នៃភិក្ខុនោះ ដែលបានចាំស្ទាត់ រត់មាត់ ចូលចិត្តច្បាស់លាស់ ចាក់ធ្លុះដោយទិដ្ឋិ។ ភិក្ខុនោះ ភ្លេចស្មារតី ធ្វើមរណកាល​ទៅ រមែងចូលទៅកាន់ទេវនិកាយណាមួយ។ ចំណែកនៃធម៌ទាំងឡាយ មិនបា្រកដច្បាស់ ដល់​ភិក្ខុនោះ ដែលមានសេចក្ដីសុខ ក្នុងទេវនិកាយ​នោះឡើយ ទាំងមិនមែនជា​ភិក្ខុ​មានឫទ្ធិ ដល់នូវសេចក្ដីស្ទាត់ជំនាញ​ខាង​ផ្លូវចិត្ត ហើយសំដែងធម៌ ដល់ទេវបរិសទ្យ​បាន​ឡើយ។ គ្រាន់តែថា ទេវបុត្ត អាច​សំដែង​ធម៌ ដល់ទេវបរិសទ្យបានប៉ុណ្ណោះ។ ទេវបុត្តនោះ មានសេចក្ដីត្រិះរិះ យ៉ាងនេះថា អាត្មាអញ បានប្រព្រឹត្តព្រហ្មចរិយៈអំពីមុន ក្នុង​ធម៌​វិន័យ​ណា នេះគឺធម្មវិន័យនោះឯង។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ការកើតឡើងនៃសតិ ឈ្មោះថា យឺតយូរ សត្វនោះ ដល់នូវគុណ​វិសេស ឆាប់រហ័សជាងសតិនោះ។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ប្រៀបដូចបុរស ជាអ្នកឈ្លាសវៃ នឹងសំឡេងស័ង្ខ បុរសនោះ ដើរទៅកាន់ផ្លូវឆ្ងាយ បានឮសំឡេង​ស័ង្ខ បុរសនោះ ក៏មិនមាន​សេចក្ដីសង្ស័យ ឬងឿងឆ្ងល់​នឹង​សំឡេង​ស័ង្ខ​នោះថា សំឡេងស័ង្ខមែន ឬមិន​មែនសំឡេងស័ង្ខទេ បុរសនោះ គប្បីដល់នូវសេចក្ដី​ចូល​ចិត្តថា ជាសំឡេងស័ង្ខដោយពិត មានឧបមាយ៉ាងណា ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ភិក្ខុរៀន​នូវធម៌ ក៏មានឧបមេយ្យ ដូច្នោះ​ដែរ។បេ។ ជាអ្នកដល់នូវគុណវិសេសឆាប់រហ័ស។ ម្នាល​ភិក្ខុ​ទាំងឡាយ​ នេះជា​អានិសង្ស ទី៣ នៃធម៌ ដែលចូលទៅកាន់ត្រចៀករឿយៗ ដែល​បុគ្គល​ចាំស្ទាត់ រត់មាត់ ចូលចិត្ត​ច្បាស់លាស់ ចាក់ធ្លុះដោយទិដ្ឋិ រមែងកើតបា្រកដ។ ម្នាល​ភិក្ខុ​ទាំងឡាយ មួយទៀត ភិក្ខុរៀននូវធម៌ គឺសុត្តៈ គេយ្យៈ វេយ្យាករណៈ គាថា ឧទានៈ ឥតិវុត្តកៈ ជាតកៈ អព្ភុតធម្មៈ វេទល្លៈ ធម៌ទាំងនោះ ជាសភាវៈ ចូលទៅកាន់​ត្រចៀក​រឿយ​ៗ នៃភិក្ខុនោះ ដែលបានចាំស្ទាត់ រត់មាត់ ចូលចិត្តច្បាស់លាស់ ចាក់ធ្លុះដោយទិដ្ឋិ។ ភិក្ខុនោះ ក៏ភ្លេចស្មារតី ធ្វើមរណកាលទៅ​ រមែងចូលទៅកាន់ទេវនិកាយណាមួយ។ ចំណែកនៃធម៌ទាំងឡាយ មិនបា្រកដដល់ភិក្ខុនោះ ដែលមានសេចក្ដីសុខ ក្នុងទេវនិកាយ​នោះ ទាំងមិនមែនជាភិក្ខុមានឫទ្ធិ ដល់នូវការស្ទាត់ជំនាញខាងផ្លូវចិត្ត ហើយ​សំដែងធម៌ ដល់ទេវបរិសទ្យ ទាំងមិនមែនជាទេវបុត្ត អាចសំដែងធម៌ ដល់​ទេវបរិសទ្យបានទេ តែបើ​មាន​ឱបបាតិកសត្វ រំលឹកនូវឱបបាតិកសត្វថា ម្នាលគ្នាយើង ពួកយើងបាន​ប្រព្រឹត្តព្រហ្មចរិយៈ​អំពីមុន ក្នុងធម្មវិន័យណា អ្នករលឹកបាន នូវ​ធម្មវិន័យនោះដែរឬ។ ទេវបុត្ត​នោះ ក៏និយាយយ៉ាងនេះថា ម្នាលគ្នាយើង យើងរលឹកបាន ម្នាលគ្នាយើង យើង​រលឹកបាន។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ការកើតឡើងនៃសតិ ឈ្មោះថា យឺតយូរ សត្វនោះ ដល់​នូវគុណវិសេស ឆាប់រហ័សជាងសតិនោះ។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ប្រៀបដូចសំឡាញ់​ពីរនាក់ លេងអាចម៍ដីជាមួយគ្នា សំឡាញ់ទាំងពីរនាក់នោះ មកជួបគ្នា ក្នុងទីណាម្ដងៗ សំឡាញ់ម្នាក់ ក៏និយាយទៅនឹងសំឡាញ់ម្នាក់នោះ យ៉ាងនេះថា នែ​សំឡាញ់ ឯងរលឹក​បាននូវហេតុនេះដែរឬទេ។ សំឡាញ់នោះ គប្បីតបយ៉ាងនេះថា នែសំឡាញ់ អញរលឹក​បាន នែសំឡាញ់ អញរលឹកបាន មានឧបមាយ៉ាងណា ម្នាលភិក្ខុ​ទាំងឡាយ ភិក្ខុរៀន​នូវធម៌ ក៏មានឧបមេយ្យ ដូច្នោះដែរ។បេ។ ជាអ្នកដល់នូវគុណវិសេស​ឆាប់​រហ័ស។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ នេះជាអានិសង្ស ទី៤ នៃធម៌ ដែលចូលទៅកាន់​ត្រចៀក​រឿយៗ ដែលបុគ្គលចាំស្ទាត់ រត់មាត់ ចូលចិត្តច្បាស់លាស់ ចាក់ធ្លុះដោយទិដ្ឋិ រមែងកើតបា្រកដ។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ អានិសង្សទាំង ៤ ប្រការនេះនៃធម៌ ដែលចូល​ទៅ​កាន់ត្រចៀក​រឿយៗ​ ដែលបុគ្គលចាំស្ទាត់ រត់មាត់ ចូលចិត្តច្បាស់លាស់ ចាក់ឆ្លុះ​ដោយ​ទិដ្ឋិ រមែង​កើតបា្រកដ។
 1. ស្មារតីដែលកើតឡើង ១ភ្លែត ទុកជាយឺតយូរ ឯសត្វដែលមាន​អានិសង្ស​ធម៌​ក្នុងខ្លួន វេលានឹងសម្រេចមគ្គផល បានឆាប់រហ័សជាងស្មារតី១ភ្លែតនោះឯង។
Zitat von: book 43

(Atma wird sich nun für seine Almosenrunde zurückziehen und die Khmer-Übersetzung später posten, da noch nicht geteilt.)
« Letzte Änderung: Juni 08, 2017, 03:22:09 Nachmittag by Johann »
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Antw:Noble Wiedergeburt - Noble rebirth
« Antwort #1 am: Juni 08, 2017, 05:15:16 Vormittag »
Vielleicht möchte sich Upasaka Volker um eine deutsche Übersetzung für die Savaka Sangha annehmen. Hier das gegebene Pali dazu:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

1. Sotānugatasuttaṃ

191. ‘‘Sotānugatānaṃ , bhikkhave, dhammānaṃ, vacasā paricitānaṃ, manasānupekkhitānaṃ, diṭṭhiyā suppaṭividdhānaṃ cattāro ānisaṃsā pāṭikaṅkhā. Katame cattāro? Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu dhammaṃ pariyāpuṇāti – suttaṃ, geyyaṃ, veyyākaraṇaṃ, gāthaṃ, udānaṃ, itivuttakaṃ, jātakaṃ, abbhutadhammaṃ, vedallaṃ. Tassa te dhammā sotānugatā honti, vacasā paricitā, manasānupekkhitā, diṭṭhiyā suppaṭividdhā. So muṭṭhassati [muṭṭhassatī (sī.)] kālaṃ kurumāno aññataraṃ devanikāyaṃ upapajjati. Tassa tattha sukhino dhammapadā plavanti [pilapanti (sī. syā. kaṃ. pī.)]. Dandho, bhikkhave, satuppādo; atha so satto khippaṃyeva visesagāmī hoti. Sotānugatānaṃ, bhikkhave, dhammānaṃ, vacasā paricitānaṃ, manasānupekkhitānaṃ, diṭṭhiyā suppaṭividdhānaṃ ayaṃ paṭhamo ānisaṃso pāṭikaṅkho.

‘‘Puna caparaṃ, bhikkhave, bhikkhu dhammaṃ pariyāpuṇāti – suttaṃ, geyyaṃ, veyyākaraṇaṃ, gāthaṃ, udānaṃ, itivuttakaṃ, jātakaṃ, abbhutadhammaṃ, vedallaṃ. Tassa te dhammā sotānugatā honti, vacasā paricitā, manasānupekkhitā, diṭṭhiyā suppaṭividdhā. So muṭṭhassati kālaṃ kurumāno aññataraṃ devanikāyaṃ upapajjati. Tassa tattha na heva kho sukhino dhammapadā plavanti; api ca kho bhikkhu iddhimā cetovasippatto devaparisāyaṃ dhammaṃ deseti. Tassa evaṃ hoti – ‘ayaṃ vā so dhammavinayo, yatthāhaṃ pubbe brahmacariyaṃ acari’nti. Dandho, bhikkhave, satuppādo; atha so satto khippameva visesagāmī hoti. Seyyathāpi, bhikkhave, puriso kusalo bherisaddassa. So addhānamaggappaṭipanno bherisaddaṃ suṇeyya. Tassa na heva kho assa kaṅkhā vā vimati vā – ‘bherisaddo nu kho, na nu kho bherisaddo’ti! Atha kho bherisaddotveva niṭṭhaṃ gaccheyya. Evamevaṃ kho, bhikkhave, bhikkhu dhammaṃ pariyāpuṇāti – suttaṃ, geyyaṃ, veyyākaraṇaṃ, gāthaṃ, udānaṃ, itivuttakaṃ, jātakaṃ, abbhutadhammaṃ, vedallaṃ. Tassa te dhammā sotānugatā honti, vacasā paricitā, manasānupekkhitā, diṭṭhiyā suppaṭividdhā. So muṭṭhassati kālaṃ kurumāno aññataraṃ devanikāyaṃ upapajjati. Tassa tattha na heva kho sukhino dhammapadā plavanti; api ca kho bhikkhu iddhimā cetovasippatto devaparisāyaṃ dhammaṃ deseti. Tassa evaṃ hoti – ‘ayaṃ vā so dhammavinayo, yatthāhaṃ pubbe brahmacariyaṃ acari’nti. Dandho, bhikkhave, satuppādo; atha so satto khippaṃyeva visesagāmī hoti. Sotānugatānaṃ, bhikkhave, dhammānaṃ , vacasā paricitānaṃ, manasānupekkhitānaṃ, diṭṭhiyā suppaṭividdhānaṃ ayaṃ dutiyo ānisaṃso pāṭikaṅkho.

‘‘Puna caparaṃ, bhikkhave, bhikkhu dhammaṃ pariyāpuṇāti – suttaṃ, geyyaṃ, veyyākaraṇaṃ, gāthaṃ, udānaṃ, itivuttakaṃ, jātakaṃ, abbhutadhammaṃ, vedallaṃ. Tassa te dhammā sotānugatā honti, vacasā paricitā, manasānupekkhitā, diṭṭhiyā suppaṭividdhā. So muṭṭhassati kālaṃ kurumāno aññataraṃ devanikāyaṃ upapajjati. Tassa tattha na heva kho sukhino dhammapadā plavanti, napi bhikkhu iddhimā cetovasippatto devaparisāyaṃ dhammaṃ deseti; api ca kho devaputto devaparisāyaṃ dhammaṃ deseti. Tassa evaṃ hoti – ‘ayaṃ vā so dhammavinayo, yatthāhaṃ pubbe brahmacariyaṃ acari’nti. Dandho, bhikkhave, satuppādo; atha so satto khippaṃyeva visesagāmī hoti. Seyyathāpi, bhikkhave, puriso kusalo saṅkhasaddassa. So addhānamaggappaṭipanno saṅkhasaddaṃ suṇeyya. Tassa na heva kho assa kaṅkhā vā vimati vā – ‘saṅkhasaddo nu kho, na nu kho saṅkhasaddo’ti! Atha kho saṅkhasaddotveva niṭṭhaṃ gaccheyya. Evamevaṃ kho, bhikkhave, bhikkhu dhammaṃ pariyāpuṇāti – suttaṃ, geyyaṃ, veyyākaraṇaṃ, gāthaṃ, udānaṃ, itivuttakaṃ, jātakaṃ, abbhutadhammaṃ, vedallaṃ. Tassa te dhammā sotānugatā honti, vacasā paricitā, manasānupekkhitā, diṭṭhiyā suppaṭividdhā. So muṭṭhassati kālaṃ kurumāno aññataraṃ devanikāyaṃ upapajjati. Tassa tattha na heva kho sukhino dhammapadā plavanti, napi bhikkhu iddhimā cetovasippatto devaparisāyaṃ dhammaṃ deseti; api ca kho devaputto devaparisāyaṃ dhammaṃ deseti. Tassa evaṃ hoti – ‘ayaṃ vā so dhammavinayo, yatthāhaṃ pubbe brahmacariyaṃ acari’nti. Dandho, bhikkhave, satuppādo; atha so satto khippaṃyeva visesagāmī hoti. Sotānugatānaṃ, bhikkhave, dhammānaṃ, vacasā paricitānaṃ, manasānupekkhitānaṃ, diṭṭhiyā suppaṭividdhānaṃ ayaṃ tatiyo ānisaṃso pāṭikaṅkho.

‘‘Puna caparaṃ, bhikkhave, bhikkhu dhammaṃ pariyāpuṇāti – suttaṃ, geyyaṃ, veyyākaraṇaṃ, gāthaṃ, udānaṃ, itivuttakaṃ, jātakaṃ, abbhutadhammaṃ, vedallaṃ. Tassa te dhammā sotānugatā honti, vacasā paricitā, manasānupekkhitā, diṭṭhiyā suppaṭividdhā. So muṭṭhassati kālaṃ kurumāno aññataraṃ devanikāyaṃ upapajjati. Tassa tattha na heva kho sukhino dhammapadā plavanti, napi bhikkhu iddhimā cetovasippatto devaparisāyaṃ dhammaṃ deseti, napi devaputto devaparisāyaṃ dhammaṃ deseti; api ca kho opapātiko opapātikaṃ sāreti – ‘sarasi tvaṃ, mārisa, sarasi tvaṃ , mārisa, yattha mayaṃ pubbe brahmacariyaṃ acarimhā’ti. So evamāha – ‘sarāmi, mārisa, sarāmi, mārisā’ti. Dandho, bhikkhave, satuppādo; atha so satto khippaṃyeva visesagāmī hoti. Seyyathāpi, bhikkhave, dve sahāyakā sahapaṃsukīḷikā [sahapaṃsukīḷakā (syā. kaṃ.)]. Te kadāci karahaci aññamaññaṃ samāgaccheyyuṃ. Añño pana [samāgaccheyyuṃ, tamenaṃ (sī. syā. kaṃ. pī.)] sahāyako sahāyakaṃ evaṃ vadeyya – ‘idampi, samma, sarasi, idampi, samma, sarasī’ti. So evaṃ vadeyya – ‘sarāmi , samma, sarāmi, sammā’ti. Evamevaṃ kho, bhikkhave, bhikkhu dhammaṃ pariyāpuṇāti – suttaṃ, geyyaṃ, veyyākaraṇaṃ, gāthaṃ, udānaṃ, itivuttakaṃ, jātakaṃ, abbhutadhammaṃ, vedallaṃ. Tassa te dhammā sotānugatā honti, vacasā paricitā, manasānupekkhitā, diṭṭhiyā suppaṭividdhā. So muṭṭhassati kālaṃ kurumāno aññataraṃ devanikāyaṃ upapajjati. Tassa tattha na heva kho sukhino dhammapadā plavanti, napi bhikkhu iddhimā cetovasippatto devaparisāyaṃ dhammaṃ deseti, napi devaputto devaparisāyaṃ dhammaṃ deseti; api ca kho opapātiko opapātikaṃ sāreti – ‘sarasi tvaṃ, mārisa, sarasi tvaṃ, mārisa, yattha mayaṃ pubbe brahmacariyaṃ acarimhā’ti. So evamāha – ‘sarāmi, mārisa, sarāmi, mārisā’ti. Dandho, bhikkhave, satuppādo; atha kho so satto khippaṃyeva visesagāmī hoti. Sotānugatānaṃ, bhikkhave, dhammānaṃ, vacasā paricitānaṃ, manasānupekkhitānaṃ, diṭṭhiyā suppaṭividdhānaṃ ayaṃ catuttho ānisaṃso pāṭikaṅkho. Sotānugatānaṃ, bhikkhave, dhammānaṃ, vacasā paricitānaṃ, manasānupekkhitānaṃ diṭṭhiyā suppaṭividdhānaṃ ime cattāro ānisaṃsā pāṭikaṅkhā’’ti. Paṭhamaṃ.

Atma wird Bhikkhu Bodhi im Bezug auf eine englische Übersetzung ansprechen, oder aber es möchte jemand Bhante Thanissaro darauf ansprechen, Nyom Kaethi vielleicht?
« Letzte Änderung: Juni 08, 2017, 03:01:57 Nachmittag by Johann »
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On Being of Noble birth - Stream winner reborn as human
« Antwort #2 am: Juni 17, 2017, 11:57:40 Vormittag »

Aramika   *

Ein oder mehrer Beiträge wurden hier im Thema abgeschnitten und damit in neues Thema "On Being of Noble birth - Stream winner reborn as human " eröffnet. Bitte scheuen Sie nicht davor zurück, etwaigen Rat oder Kritik dazu mitzuteilen.  Viel Freude und Inspiration auch im neuen Thema. Anumodana!

One or more posts have been cut out of this topic here. A new topic, based on it, has been created as "On Being of Noble birth - Stream winner reborn as human " . Please do not hesitate to claim or give supporting hints.  Much joy and inspiration also in the new Topic. Anumodana!
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Johann

Juni 25, 2017, 01:38:38 Nachmittag
Alles Zufälle. Nissaya. Und wenn da keine starke Grundlagenursache aufkommt, upanissayapaccayena, na dann war's das, und alles is weg. Lebewesen sind Erben ihrer Taten (im Geist, Wort und Körper).
 

Johann

Juni 25, 2017, 01:27:24 Nachmittag
Schwupps und weg. Waffen und Nahrung geholt.

Oh, was sag ich. Wenn man's doch nehmen kann, auch ohne das Gefühl zu nehmen... Unsinn hier. Hat doch keiner interesse Verdienste zu tun.
 

Johann

Juni 25, 2017, 01:21:28 Nachmittag
Mirco. Wie geht es?
 

Johann

Juni 25, 2017, 01:20:43 Nachmittag
Es ist doch viel angenehmer, wenn man sich nehmen kann was und wann immer man will, oder? Warum sollte man sich so viel antun, da sind genügend die Anbieten.
 

Johann

Juni 14, 2017, 06:45:07 Nachmittag
Jetzt aber vorerst. Möge jeder guten Unterhalt (ung) im Dhamma und Stärkung finden uud sich davon reichlich nehmen.
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

Juni 11, 2017, 08:24:45 Vormittag
Werter Harry,

ich freue mich darüber, nach einigen Monaten wieder auf sangham.net Sie zu grüßen.

Herzliche Grüße aus Sri Lanka nach Deutschland!
 

Johann

Juni 09, 2017, 05:05:59 Nachmittag
Mögen sich alle, möge sich Gast der Uposatha-Einhaltung nicht nur heute annehmen, und glücksverheißende Zeit verbringen.

May all, may Gast not only today observe the Uposatha and spend auspicious time
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

Juni 03, 2017, 01:48:08 Vormittag
Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann,

es geht mir zur Zeit gut. Ich glaube, dass es Ihnen auch gut geht.

Dhamma Grüße an Sie aus Sri Lanka!
 

Johann

Juni 02, 2017, 11:19:32 Nachmittag
Wie geht es Upasaka Mohan?
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

Juni 02, 2017, 10:51:50 Nachmittag
Wie sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann geschrieben hat, hatte ich am 10. Mai 2017 meinen  Geburtstag, an dem Tag  in diesem Jahr das Wesakfest gefeiert wurde.
Beste Grüße an Sie aus Sri Lanka!
Mohan Barathi Gnanathilake
 

Johann

Juni 02, 2017, 12:33:54 Nachmittag
Wußte doch, daß so Nahrung immer gefressen werden will.  :)
"Sehr gut, weiter hungern."

Freut das Nyom Marcel wohlauf ist.
 

Marcel

Juni 02, 2017, 12:20:52 Nachmittag
weil "keines" immer noch die bezugnahme auf eines hat!
 

Johann

Juni 02, 2017, 10:23:46 Vormittag
Wenn zwei mehr als eines sid, warum ist dann keines auch eines?
 

Johann

Mai 20, 2017, 04:30:26 Nachmittag
Moritz
 

Moritz

Mai 20, 2017, 03:42:08 Nachmittag
Namasakara, Bhante. _/\_
 

Johann

Mai 18, 2017, 09:56:06 Vormittag
Sadhu und Mudita.
 

Moritz

Mai 18, 2017, 09:53:33 Vormittag
_/\_ _/\_ _/\_
 

Sophorn

Mai 18, 2017, 09:22:19 Vormittag
 :-* :-* :-*
Wünsche allen einen guten Silatag.
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

Mai 16, 2017, 01:45:43 Nachmittag
Erfreulich
 

Maria

Mai 16, 2017, 12:09:45 Nachmittag
 :-*Werte Sophorn noch am Flughafen getroffen :)
sitzt im Flieger :-*
 

Johann

Mai 16, 2017, 02:20:58 Vormittag
Ein Dhammatalk, über ein paar Audiofiles, sicher auch gut für ihre Familie, Mutter... http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,7997.0.html
 

Sophorn

Mai 16, 2017, 02:17:07 Vormittag
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

Mai 16, 2017, 02:11:44 Vormittag
Vielleicht möchte Nyom Maria sie noch gerne am Flughafen verabschieden, wenn sie von der Gelegenheit weis.
 

Johann

Mai 16, 2017, 02:08:13 Vormittag
Gute Reise und beste Wünsche an alle.
 

Sophorn

Mai 16, 2017, 02:04:14 Vormittag
 :-* :-* :-*
 karuna tvay bongkum
kana macht sich in knapp 4h auf den weg nach Wien und dann Richtung K. Ankunft morgen in PP.
gerade ist kana am Sammeln vor der Abreise.
kana wünscht Bhante gute Genesung.
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

Mai 16, 2017, 01:48:42 Vormittag
Nyom Sophorn. Wieder zurück im Land der Khmer? Mag Reise und Aufenthalt angenehm gewesen sein.
 

Johann

Mai 10, 2017, 09:51:50 Vormittag
Qi-Van-Chi
 

Johann

Mai 10, 2017, 01:30:17 Vormittag
Verdienstreiche und befreiende Vesak - Pūjā allen, heute.
 

Johann

Mai 09, 2017, 09:20:24 Vormittag
Atma will rest a little today and use the "hair cut day" to maintain his body a little for tomorrow's Puja, so see, Moritz has won a whole day today, maybe use it for same. Best wishes!
 

Moritz

Mai 09, 2017, 08:58:33 Vormittag
Namasakara Bhante.
May you have a good Vesakha Puja!
_/\_
 

Johann

Mai 08, 2017, 10:43:50 Vormittag
Viel Freude beim Aufräumen und angenehmes "Brotverdienen"
 

Moritz

Mai 08, 2017, 09:32:47 Vormittag
Muss nun hier aufräumen und bald los Brot verdienen. Wünsche einen angenehmen Tag.
_/\_
 

Moritz

Mai 08, 2017, 09:25:13 Vormittag
Namasakara, Bhante. _/\_
 

Johann

Mai 06, 2017, 05:42:48 Nachmittag
Nyom Senghour.
Darf Atma darauf vertrauen, daß es Ihm gut geht?
 

Johann

Mai 03, 2017, 08:26:24 Nachmittag
Hr. Bernd, Atma zieht sich für heute zurück. Viel Freude beim Entdecken.
 

Marcel

April 29, 2017, 11:44:21 Vormittag
 :-*
 

Johann

April 29, 2017, 11:29:06 Vormittag
Atma wird kurz etwas Wasser zum trinken abkochen.
 

Johann

April 29, 2017, 11:26:17 Vormittag
Sadhu der Nachfrage, Nyom Marcel. Alles soweit passend. Gut Nyom mal wieder anzutreffen. Vielleicht mag er ja etwas von seinen Verdiensten teilen.
 

Marcel

April 29, 2017, 11:07:15 Vormittag
 :-*ehwürdiger samana johann  :-*

wie geht es ihnen?
 

Johann

April 26, 2017, 08:11:22 Vormittag
Christian.
 

Johann

April 26, 2017, 02:45:50 Vormittag
Senghour, Atma verläßt nun für seinen Almosengang das Klosterhier.
 

Johann

April 24, 2017, 01:39:40 Nachmittag
Christian.
 

Johann

April 22, 2017, 07:23:20 Vormittag
Dylan.
 

Johann

April 22, 2017, 02:00:11 Vormittag
224. Sprecht Wahrheit, haltet nicht an Zorn, wenn gebeten, gebt, auch wenn nur wenig Ihr habt. Mit diesen drei Mittel, in Gegenwart der Götter, einer kann erreichen.
 

Johann

April 22, 2017, 01:55:53 Vormittag
224. Speak the truth; yield not to anger; when asked, give even if you only have a little. By these three means can one reach the presence of the gods.
 

Johann

April 13, 2017, 11:02:06 Vormittag
Hatte wohl kurzen Serverausfall gegeben.

Visitor

April 04, 2017, 09:44:42 Vormittag
Hallo!  :)
 

Johann

März 31, 2017, 09:59:39 Vormittag
Moritz, Maria
 

Maria

März 31, 2017, 08:09:04 Vormittag
 :-*
Guten Morgen Bhante
 

Maria

März 31, 2017, 08:08:39 Vormittag
 :-*
Guten Morgen Bhante

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