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[Buddha]

Autor Thema: [Q&A] The Cosmos, traveling the Cosmos, and its limits and reaching its End.  (Gelesen 70 mal)

Offline Johann

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Note: This talk on a question outside has come into being in realaion with "Ernährung an Samma Samādhi - Über Nahrungsprodution

[Q&A] The Cosmos, traveling the Cosmos, and its limits and reaching its End.

Did Buddha told anything about if we can travel to the end of the cosmos?

Did the Buddha tell us anything about reaching the end of the cosmos or time-travel through the means of experiencing all the Jhanas in meditation?

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

 _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community _/\_ , my person tries to answer this question. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,

 *sgift*

(This is a maybe modified and expanded answer of the "original" - which also could have been changed by third person - that can be found here . )


- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

Homage to the Blessed One, the Worthy One, the Rightly Self-awakened One.

Let my person take the best from Dhammadhatus and Swapnils answer and try to form maybe good picture of the whole:

As pointed out, by means of concentrations, we can reach what ever "end" of the cosmos, ones own limits, "ends" which are actually not independent and lasting but always need such as begin, perceptions of space and time:

By abhiñña, powers gained by the training of samādhi

 

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

He wields manifold supranormal powers. Having been one he becomes many; having been many he becomes one. He appears. He vanishes. He goes unimpeded through walls, ramparts, & mountains as if through space. He dives in & out of the earth as if it were water. He walks on water without sinking as if it were dry land. Sitting crosslegged he flies through the air like a winged bird. With his hand he touches & strokes even the sun & moon, so mighty & powerful. He exercises influence with his body even as far as the Brahma worlds.
Zitat von: MN 119

One of the ten benefits (in the case of this abhiñña, a sideeffect of the training in the higher knowledge), which are good to increase faith when performed.

In an dispute with a Brahman, whether the teaching of Lord Buddha is a selfish one or not, and by being asked if he thinks that certain powers are "real" the Brahman answered, given in the Sangarava Sutta: To Sangarava

 

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"Now, brahman, of these three miracles, which one appeals to you as the highest & most sublime?"

"Master Gotama, of these three miracles, the miracle of psychic power where a certain person wields manifold psychic powers... (and) exercises influence with his body even as far as the Brahma worlds: that is a miracle experienced only by him who does it; it belongs only to him who does it. It seems to me to be of the nature of an illusion.

"As for the miracle where a certain person gives instruction in this way: 'Direct your thought in this way, don't direct it in that. Attend to things in this way, don't attend to them in that. Let go of this, enter and remain in that': this is the miracle that, of the three, appeals to me as the highest & most sublime.

As one sees in the first quote, it does not directly says that the End of the Cosmos can be reached and given the last answer here by the Brahman, we are leaded to what is the more importand question, the main teachings of the Buddha with possible lasting End of Cosmos and suffering.

When we look now on the secound answer her, by Swapnil, there is a quote from the Rohitassa Sutta: To Rohitassa , which matches more the topic and does not lead to astray grasping for Unity with Brahma, taught to Rohitassa, the son of a deva:

 

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa


As he was standing there he said to the Blessed One: "Is it possible, lord, by traveling, to know or see or reach a far end of the cosmos where one does not take birth, age, die, pass away or reappear?"

"I tell you, friend, that it is not possible by traveling to know or see or reach a far end of the cosmos where one does not take birth, age, die, pass away, or reappear."

The the Deva amazed, told a story of own experiances. After that, the Buddha seeing the right time, he added:

 

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

"I tell you, friend, that it is not possible by traveling to know or see or reach a far end of the cosmos where one does not take birth, age, die, pass away, or reappear. But at the same time, I tell you that there is no making an end of suffering & stress without reaching the end of the cosmos. Yet it is just within this fathom-long body, with its perception & intellect, that I declare that there is the cosmos, the origination of the cosmos, the cessation of the cosmos, and the path of practice leading to the cessation of the cosmos."

In the Brahmana Sutta: To Two Brahmans , he elaborates on the deeper meaning of first, the Cosmos, what it actually is, and secound gives the "End of Cosmos" another and graspworthy meaning:

 

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

I tell you, it isn't through that sort of traveling that the end of the cosmos is known, seen, or reached. But at the same time, I tell you that there is no making an end of suffering & stress without reaching the end of the cosmos.

"These five strings of sensuality are, in the discipline of the noble ones, called the cosmos. Which five? Forms cognizable via the eye — agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, fostering desire, enticing; sounds cognizable via the ear... aromas cognizable via the nose... flavors cognizable via the tongue... tactile sensations cognizable via the body — agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, fostering desire, enticing. These are the five strings of sensuality that, in the discipline of the noble ones, are called the cosmos.

And this part explains my intoducing here, that it is possible to reach this or that end:

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -


"There is the case where a monk — quite secluded from sensuality, secluded from unskillful qualities — enters & remains in the first jhāna: rapture & pleasure born of seclusion, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. This is called a monk who, coming to the end of the cosmos, remains at the end of the cosmos. Others say of him, 'He is encompassed in the cosmos; he has not escaped from the cosmos.' And I too say of him, 'He is encompassed in the cosmos; he has not escaped from the cosmos.'

Why? Because all this ends, this Cosmoses are fabricated. And so it goes on in the Sensual world and fine material world:

 

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

[Similarly with the second, third, & fourth jhānas, and with the attainment of the dimensions of the infinitude of space, the infinitude of consciousness, nothingness, and neither perception nor non-perception.]

At this stage one with discernment, could have transcendent form (rūpa), but to complete - the first needed - task finaly, it goes on:

 

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

"Furthermore, with the complete transcending of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, he enters & remains in the cessation of perception & feeling. [eg. nāma, mind] And, having seen [that] with discernment, his fermentations are completely ended. This is called a monk who, coming to the end of the cosmos, remains at the end of the cosmos, having crossed over attachment in the cosmos."

So to do not only dwell at this or that end of ones world/cosmos, just to find out that this end is not lasting at "the end", one needs to understand "The All" incl. the sixth sense-door, mind, and this "All" has a limit of whichs beyound, Nibbana, can not be declared or explained, the end of all suffering.


 

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa


"Monks, I will teach you the All. Listen & pay close attention. I will speak."

"As you say, lord," the monks responded.

The Blessed One said, "What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. [1] Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range."

Let my person now end here, and may this words and explaining be a foundation for many to find the entrence to the path of the circle of beginnings and ends, suffering.

May all beings rejoice with the merits here done by the support of many with their previous contributions, given possibilities and sacrifies and may the Devas tell those, who have not seen, have not heard, about.

Anumodana!

(Note: This is a gift of Dhamma and not meant for commercial purposes or other wordily gains)
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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Johann

Juni 25, 2017, 01:38:38 Nachmittag
Alles Zufälle. Nissaya. Und wenn da keine starke Grundlagenursache aufkommt, upanissayapaccayena, na dann war's das, und alles is weg. Lebewesen sind Erben ihrer Taten (im Geist, Wort und Körper).
 

Johann

Juni 25, 2017, 01:27:24 Nachmittag
Schwupps und weg. Waffen und Nahrung geholt.

Oh, was sag ich. Wenn man's doch nehmen kann, auch ohne das Gefühl zu nehmen... Unsinn hier. Hat doch keiner interesse Verdienste zu tun.
 

Johann

Juni 25, 2017, 01:21:28 Nachmittag
Mirco. Wie geht es?
 

Johann

Juni 25, 2017, 01:20:43 Nachmittag
Es ist doch viel angenehmer, wenn man sich nehmen kann was und wann immer man will, oder? Warum sollte man sich so viel antun, da sind genügend die Anbieten.
 

Johann

Juni 14, 2017, 06:45:07 Nachmittag
Jetzt aber vorerst. Möge jeder guten Unterhalt (ung) im Dhamma und Stärkung finden uud sich davon reichlich nehmen.
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

Juni 11, 2017, 08:24:45 Vormittag
Werter Harry,

ich freue mich darüber, nach einigen Monaten wieder auf sangham.net Sie zu grüßen.

Herzliche Grüße aus Sri Lanka nach Deutschland!
 

Johann

Juni 09, 2017, 05:05:59 Nachmittag
Mögen sich alle, möge sich Gast der Uposatha-Einhaltung nicht nur heute annehmen, und glücksverheißende Zeit verbringen.

May all, may Gast not only today observe the Uposatha and spend auspicious time
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

Juni 03, 2017, 01:48:08 Vormittag
Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann,

es geht mir zur Zeit gut. Ich glaube, dass es Ihnen auch gut geht.

Dhamma Grüße an Sie aus Sri Lanka!
 

Johann

Juni 02, 2017, 11:19:32 Nachmittag
Wie geht es Upasaka Mohan?
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

Juni 02, 2017, 10:51:50 Nachmittag
Wie sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann geschrieben hat, hatte ich am 10. Mai 2017 meinen  Geburtstag, an dem Tag  in diesem Jahr das Wesakfest gefeiert wurde.
Beste Grüße an Sie aus Sri Lanka!
Mohan Barathi Gnanathilake
 

Johann

Juni 02, 2017, 12:33:54 Nachmittag
Wußte doch, daß so Nahrung immer gefressen werden will.  :)
"Sehr gut, weiter hungern."

Freut das Nyom Marcel wohlauf ist.
 

Marcel

Juni 02, 2017, 12:20:52 Nachmittag
weil "keines" immer noch die bezugnahme auf eines hat!
 

Johann

Juni 02, 2017, 10:23:46 Vormittag
Wenn zwei mehr als eines sid, warum ist dann keines auch eines?
 

Johann

Mai 20, 2017, 04:30:26 Nachmittag
Moritz
 

Moritz

Mai 20, 2017, 03:42:08 Nachmittag
Namasakara, Bhante. _/\_
 

Johann

Mai 18, 2017, 09:56:06 Vormittag
Sadhu und Mudita.
 

Moritz

Mai 18, 2017, 09:53:33 Vormittag
_/\_ _/\_ _/\_
 

Sophorn

Mai 18, 2017, 09:22:19 Vormittag
 :-* :-* :-*
Wünsche allen einen guten Silatag.
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

Mai 16, 2017, 01:45:43 Nachmittag
Erfreulich
 

Maria

Mai 16, 2017, 12:09:45 Nachmittag
 :-*Werte Sophorn noch am Flughafen getroffen :)
sitzt im Flieger :-*
 

Johann

Mai 16, 2017, 02:20:58 Vormittag
Ein Dhammatalk, über ein paar Audiofiles, sicher auch gut für ihre Familie, Mutter... http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,7997.0.html
 

Sophorn

Mai 16, 2017, 02:17:07 Vormittag
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

Mai 16, 2017, 02:11:44 Vormittag
Vielleicht möchte Nyom Maria sie noch gerne am Flughafen verabschieden, wenn sie von der Gelegenheit weis.
 

Johann

Mai 16, 2017, 02:08:13 Vormittag
Gute Reise und beste Wünsche an alle.
 

Sophorn

Mai 16, 2017, 02:04:14 Vormittag
 :-* :-* :-*
 karuna tvay bongkum
kana macht sich in knapp 4h auf den weg nach Wien und dann Richtung K. Ankunft morgen in PP.
gerade ist kana am Sammeln vor der Abreise.
kana wünscht Bhante gute Genesung.
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

Mai 16, 2017, 01:48:42 Vormittag
Nyom Sophorn. Wieder zurück im Land der Khmer? Mag Reise und Aufenthalt angenehm gewesen sein.
 

Johann

Mai 10, 2017, 09:51:50 Vormittag
Qi-Van-Chi
 

Johann

Mai 10, 2017, 01:30:17 Vormittag
Verdienstreiche und befreiende Vesak - Pūjā allen, heute.
 

Johann

Mai 09, 2017, 09:20:24 Vormittag
Atma will rest a little today and use the "hair cut day" to maintain his body a little for tomorrow's Puja, so see, Moritz has won a whole day today, maybe use it for same. Best wishes!
 

Moritz

Mai 09, 2017, 08:58:33 Vormittag
Namasakara Bhante.
May you have a good Vesakha Puja!
_/\_
 

Johann

Mai 08, 2017, 10:43:50 Vormittag
Viel Freude beim Aufräumen und angenehmes "Brotverdienen"
 

Moritz

Mai 08, 2017, 09:32:47 Vormittag
Muss nun hier aufräumen und bald los Brot verdienen. Wünsche einen angenehmen Tag.
_/\_
 

Moritz

Mai 08, 2017, 09:25:13 Vormittag
Namasakara, Bhante. _/\_
 

Johann

Mai 06, 2017, 05:42:48 Nachmittag
Nyom Senghour.
Darf Atma darauf vertrauen, daß es Ihm gut geht?
 

Johann

Mai 03, 2017, 08:26:24 Nachmittag
Hr. Bernd, Atma zieht sich für heute zurück. Viel Freude beim Entdecken.
 

Marcel

April 29, 2017, 11:44:21 Vormittag
 :-*
 

Johann

April 29, 2017, 11:29:06 Vormittag
Atma wird kurz etwas Wasser zum trinken abkochen.
 

Johann

April 29, 2017, 11:26:17 Vormittag
Sadhu der Nachfrage, Nyom Marcel. Alles soweit passend. Gut Nyom mal wieder anzutreffen. Vielleicht mag er ja etwas von seinen Verdiensten teilen.
 

Marcel

April 29, 2017, 11:07:15 Vormittag
 :-*ehwürdiger samana johann  :-*

wie geht es ihnen?
 

Johann

April 26, 2017, 08:11:22 Vormittag
Christian.
 

Johann

April 26, 2017, 02:45:50 Vormittag
Senghour, Atma verläßt nun für seinen Almosengang das Klosterhier.
 

Johann

April 24, 2017, 01:39:40 Nachmittag
Christian.
 

Johann

April 22, 2017, 07:23:20 Vormittag
Dylan.
 

Johann

April 22, 2017, 02:00:11 Vormittag
224. Sprecht Wahrheit, haltet nicht an Zorn, wenn gebeten, gebt, auch wenn nur wenig Ihr habt. Mit diesen drei Mittel, in Gegenwart der Götter, einer kann erreichen.
 

Johann

April 22, 2017, 01:55:53 Vormittag
224. Speak the truth; yield not to anger; when asked, give even if you only have a little. By these three means can one reach the presence of the gods.
 

Johann

April 13, 2017, 11:02:06 Vormittag
Hatte wohl kurzen Serverausfall gegeben.

Visitor

April 04, 2017, 09:44:42 Vormittag
Hallo!  :)
 

Johann

März 31, 2017, 09:59:39 Vormittag
Moritz, Maria
 

Maria

März 31, 2017, 08:09:04 Vormittag
 :-*
Guten Morgen Bhante
 

Maria

März 31, 2017, 08:08:39 Vormittag
 :-*
Guten Morgen Bhante

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