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Author Topic: [Q&A] Proper way to ask a teacher to become their student  (Read 481 times)

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Online Johann

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[Q&A] Proper way to ask a teacher to become their student

Proper way to ask a teacher to become their student

Proper way to ask a teacher to become their student

I'm seeking a meditation/dharma teacher to help strengthen my practice, once I find one and establish some relationship what is the proper way to request becoming their student. I'm interested in The etiquette for lay or monastic. Also where I am there is not a strong community of practice what suggestions if any does anyone have about online teachers/instruction? (Hazards/cautions) if the relationship has to be long distance what steps can I take to make it more beneficial?

Quote from: Johann
To start to introduce your self with name and face, is maybe a good 1. advice, what does ?? think? Some general advices for sure useful here. The better you ways and understanding what is good conduct the better the chances to gain a good teacher. To ask such is already great but its also good to ask at proper places with certain usuals

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

 _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community _/\_ , my person tries to answer this question. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,


(This is a maybe modified and expanded answer of the "original" - which also could have been changed by third person - that can be found here . )

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

Homage to the Blessed One, the Worthy One, the Rightly Self-awakened One.


Before teaching the Dhamma, the Buddha would expect certain thing from one: Respect, generosity, patient and the willingness to virtue, before then teaching about the Devas and good dwellings in the world, the disadvantage and if possible followed till here, the Four Noble Truth.

Knowing that many of you might have access to his teachings, my person tries to give a practical teacher for each step. If you do not have the right people next to you, living the talk, although you might have access to the words, you might not succeed: but sometimes, better than searching for the perfect teacher, is to look for one that helps you right where you are stuck for now.

So if, after wise reflecting, you find out that you have authority problems, seek for somebody able to tame you, friends who practice paying respect with body and speech and learn that, till you are able to give gratitude rise.

So here are some bits of advice for the foundations, to gain enough right view, to be able to be considered worthy for sacrifies, and if having the feeling that you are not worthy at all out of wrong self-estimate, just go on and serve and help around and for a person you believe that he represents good attributes and has wisdom.

Don't search for people who you estimate as lower or equal in regard of good virtues, as you would like to when you look for a friend; but look for someone you really can develop "love", a certain kind of fear and respect, people who are able to dominate you and tame you; while at the same time, be sure that they do not depend on you even a little, whether materially nor immaterially. A paid teacher is no teacher at all; a honor-needing teacher is never a high teacher. A teacher accepting you as his disciple for not just giving you as as possible leave, is not free of defilements.
Wherever you are able for now, start to give: for your consumer attitude will never bring you to the Dhamma, how ever much merits you might have, how ever much access to information you have, you might stay as poor as you are and live a live of a hungry ghost again and again, when not turning to give at first place and practice that on and on.

All you estimate as not grasp-worthy, painful, annoying for now and not praising generosity, service for inferior and going forth, all this are you many teacher you should work with.

Only if one wisely prepares one step by step to be possible be tamed and cuts of all his ways out of this prison of practice, can estimate good teachers (inwardly and outwardly) and success in liberation.

If one seeks for liberation before taking on this prison or other ways around, there is no way to success, even all possible control in this world.

Upasika Nina van Gorkum wrote some words on The Greatest Blessings , the Mangala Sutta, which also explains well the Steps to be fulfilled to get the highest gift of teaching and being able to take and penetrate it.

At the end a short list of duties in regard of teacher, be they lay people or ascetics:
  • (i) by rising from the seat in salutation,
  • (ii) by attending on him,
  • (iii) by eagerness to learn,
  • (iv) by personal service,
  • (v) by respectful attention while receiving instructions.
  • (i) by lovable deeds,
  • (ii) by lovable words,
  • (iii) by lovable thoughts,
  • (iv) by keeping open house to them,
  • (v) by supplying their material needs.

The Layperson's Code of Discipline

Different kind of teache-student relationships




(Sadhu! For editing grammer, spelling and layout, Nyom Chris )


[To be continued]
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 02:10:55 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Online Johann

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Different kind of teacher-student relationships
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2017, 10:31:22 AM »
Different kind of teacher-student relationships

It's worthy and importand, that the Buddha did give only in regard of his founded ancestorship detail explainings, rules and guidelines: Bhikkhu to Bhikkhu.

While there are some indications in regard of Bhikkhu and Samanera, where certain lineage factors are already present, the teaching relation in regard of lay people is totally out of concrete order by the Buddha, and can be seen only as a free teacher and student relation ship, called Upasaka, Upasika, follower or attend and not directly regulated as a teacher-student relation. Mainly because in the case of lay-person and monk, it can become easily a corrupt relation by depending on each other: giving Dhamma for the four requisites as well as giving requisites for Dhamma. In a monk to monk relation, both will merely come from the teacher and so the teaching can possible stay without corruption. The other thing is, that be giving up home and living in dependency on a teacher while serving him, the prerequisites for receiving Dhamma are possible best given: generosity, by giving up material things, patient and willingness to virtue.

My person might doubt in this case, but as far as he can se and as far as he read an heared, the Buddha did not gave such as a clear allowence to accept lay people as student in a formal relation. It was out of course not intended by the Buddha, that his ancestorship would leave the Sangha of Bhikkhus and Bhikkhunis in manners of conventional issues.

So also lay- to lay person relations do not have been given any formality by the Buddha and both, monk-layman and layman-layman-relations can not be seen as a ancestorship on an convetional level and out of lacking given conduct/Vinaya in this regard, such models and appearences are either of short lasting or soon very corrupt.

While certain traditions go here totally agains the given, a formal student-teacher relation between laypeople an laypeople an laypeople and monks is not realy suggested by the Buddha, willing to keep his Dhamma and the way of live best possible without effluents. On one hand to keep the Dhamma clean and on the other hand to keep the carrier community alive. With all modern ways under influence of Mahayana (moha-yana, deluded-vehicle), less personal gain as well soon destruction through improper relation between monks and lay people as well by copies can be estimated.

A further missing feature or this relations is that they have no real protective tools and we know about the many scandals in the sphere of such relations.

If one has gained good faith in the tripple gems, the traditional way would be assisting and helping as much as possible as layman, in all wordily regards of the monks or a certain monk and in that way not only find out much about his virtue, generosity, wisdom and so on, but also train already eager in virtue, since veneration and service are already elements of the virtue section of the path, so straighten right view at the same time, possible taking on precepts, living next to them and maybe one day also asking for going forth, either as Samanera or Bhikkhu, where such as a formal relation would beginn and the prerequisites are well established to receive the higher teaching in a way and circumstances that is conductive to be able to receive and understand proper.

While the only needed requirement to receive teaching from a monk, would be showing signs of respect or minimum no distespect, its usual to ask for refuge and possible precepts to give best expression that one is proper adjusted to receive a particular teaching. Tratitional such would be made then by requesting three times. Such is no more needed, if living next or the monks know about your tendencies and virtue. After having received the teaching, the relation ends by going ones own way. Note that in the case one likes to make an offering, one should offer it fist, best as first act when meeting monks, since they are not allowed to accept gifts for teaching the Dhamma. In this way, both, the gifts of requisites and the gift of Dhamma will be always a matter of pure generosity and not a matter for both parts, teacher and student.

This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Online Johann

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Re: [Q&A] Proper way to ask a teacher to become their student
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2018, 01:58:58 PM »

Many - althought not offical in regard of student-teacher relationship outside the Sangha - proper ways to ask, to serve, to relate, to leave and to ask for forgiviness are found in the Mahavagga, such as:
Some things like Vandami (paying respect and ask for forgiviness) are traditional usual also between Bhikkhus, other monastics and lay people.

Many other things are done similar, but of cource with certain proper distance.

It's aside many things around and in these chapers maybe worthy to point out, that the most importand is, that disciples

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

“A pupil endowed with five qualities should not be dismissed. With regard to his teacher he has strong affection, has strong confidence, has a strong sense of shame, has strong respect, has strong development. A pupil endowed with these five qualities should not be dismissed.

“When a pupil is endowed with five qualities he is fit to be dismissed. With regard to his teacher he does not have strong affection, does not have strong confidence, does not have a strong sense of shame,does not have strong respect, does not have strong development (in the practice). A pupil endowed with these five qualities is fit to be dismissed.

Also that, if dismissed, there is a certain need (duty) to ask for forgiving. Aside of not dismissing if proper to dismiss, or dismissing if not proper to dismiss, are not to be done by a teacher.

And it's possible understandable that a improper student-teacher relation, we find so often in our days, just look at normal schools, based on compromise, improper compassion or simply doing jobs for a livelihood, has no long time lasting good impact. Having gained skills in a improper way, one will either hurt himself, others, or both with it, not to speak that real teacher, if growing common, will simply disapear.

That has to be seen in regard of the Sangha at large, or the lay 'community' as well. So it's the wiser way to follow certain traditions where such a relation is long time maintained, also where this traditions are unknown or till today as "child-stuff" and "degrading" rejected.

If there is no willingness to jump into the part of a child, degrading oneself for a disciple or if the teacher is not willing or able to act the part as a father, neither a good for the student, nor for the teacher, and the relations impact on others, can be expected.

Next to equal, if even, one may be able to maintain of what has been already gained and one might have a pleasant dwelling, but no prosperity can be expected.

So if meeting "teacher" who are likely to act "cool" in rejecting venerations, proper adressing, proper service, inviting merely to a homi-hood, don't go for that.

One who has no regard of proper behavior toward higher, is either lower or just equal, and what could one learn in this way? So one who does not value your great gifts, does not see them, is not able to receive them, but merely asks and directs you to act like an equal friend, as not to be taken as useful teacher.

Yet of course, many of the infomations out there tell one a different.

If willing to grow toward liberation, to seek and accept authority is most needed. If cutting that of from the beginning, it's not only that one will unlikely find any teacher and unlikely that one would get taimed, defilement uprooted and guided toward unbound.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 02:09:21 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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March 19, 2018, 05:20:12 AM
This "wiki"-like backup tool is meant as a outwardy insurance that one does not be afraid that anything possible good can be desroyed or made bad while looking for cleaning it. So worry at all, kamma does not dissapear. No need to fear to make good deeds, knowing that.


March 19, 2018, 04:03:35 AM
And there is no intention to just make a museum out of a working and concentration camp, since the Dhamma can not be understood by just looking on forms but by learning and experiance skillful deeds.


March 19, 2018, 04:00:47 AM
Post-history: http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,1164.0.html (but there is no notification system). My person uses to make a @mention , off topic "/me" in the OP.


March 19, 2018, 03:49:28 AM
Or to simply make a new post. No need to be shy in doing good things. It's not a museum, it's a working and concentration place. Mudita.


March 19, 2018, 03:47:57 AM
There is such as a "wiki" backup function in all posts, Nyom Danilo. Good is to use the mention option, at the places where making changes @Johann , that it gets not "lost".


March 19, 2018, 03:02:46 AM
I have a backup of the original post in any case. I might review the second post next time. Very insightful teaching. _/\_


March 19, 2018, 03:01:35 AM
I've recently fixed many words and sentences of the first post of the thread "Debts, but to whom?". It take me some time trying to figure out the meaning of some sentences. So it would be good if Bhante could check if the original intended meaning of the post still intact. I have a backup of the ori


March 19, 2018, 01:57:28 AM
_/\_ _/\_ _/\_


March 19, 2018, 12:01:09 AM
One leading to peaks pointing downward so that aging, sickness and death can be seen, know him/her as a sage, a giver of release.


March 18, 2018, 11:57:30 PM
One leading people to papanca, promoting rejoicing in objectification as the heart wood, increases to fields of corpse in the world.


March 18, 2018, 12:03:14 AM
Good night _/\_


March 17, 2018, 11:59:14 PM
Vandami, Bhante _/\_


March 17, 2018, 11:51:37 PM


March 16, 2018, 01:19:17 AM


March 15, 2018, 09:53:07 PM
 :-* ich wünschen allen einen verdienstvollen uposatha  :-*


March 14, 2018, 11:19:11 PM
Sounds like a good idea to rest. I will be taking a break from the internet for a while i feel detached a lot from the worldly feminisms and all. It is wonderful not to be lusting, walking the streets with lowered gaze, delighting in meditation... I fear it compromises me to even think about the pol


March 14, 2018, 11:10:27 PM


March 14, 2018, 10:58:38 PM
Marcel, Morits, Upasaka X, it's time to break up this auspicious coming in touch now also for my person. Observe, remember, how you have been yesterday an now and guess of what will be tomorrow probably... maybe just not sure.


March 14, 2018, 10:06:46 PM
Sadhu, _/\_

may Bhante have a peaceful day.

Chom reap sour.


March 14, 2018, 09:58:42 PM
 :-* :-* :-*


March 14, 2018, 09:55:00 PM
O yes... will be a long day, this yesterday, but possible a remorseless.


March 14, 2018, 09:46:45 PM
Vandami Bhante,
good evening (morning in Cambodia?).



March 14, 2018, 03:03:38 AM
Wie war es gestern? Wie geht es heute?

How was it yesterday? How are you today?


March 06, 2018, 02:24:03 PM
Nyom Jens.


March 05, 2018, 02:25:22 PM
 :-* erhwürdiger bhante johann  :-*


March 05, 2018, 02:17:57 PM
Nyom Marcel


March 01, 2018, 12:52:02 AM
Sadhu, eine des Magha-puja allen jenen die sie heute Begehen.


February 28, 2018, 09:48:58 PM
 :-* allen ein verdienstvollen uposatha tag :-*


February 24, 2018, 02:37:41 AM


February 24, 2018, 01:31:25 AM


February 24, 2018, 12:50:00 AM
Es ist sehr selten, ungewöhnlich und erfreulich, zur Mitfreude anregend, junge Menschen Kloster aufsuchend zu sehen.


February 23, 2018, 02:56:54 PM
Namasakara, Bhante _/\_


February 23, 2018, 04:04:45 AM


February 23, 2018, 02:16:16 AM
Nyom Danilo.
(Atma will leave for a while for his almsround.)


February 22, 2018, 10:08:41 PM
 :-* ehrwürdiger bhante johann, ja ich ahb die khmer tastatur installiert! ich werde in den nächsten tagen text teilen und berichten!  :-*


February 22, 2018, 12:34:06 PM
Hat Nyom Marcel schon eine Khmer Tastatur installiert?


February 22, 2018, 12:32:21 PM
So ist das. Wenn Nahrung aufgebraucht, dann ist da für eine Weile Ende, und Wiedergeboren, es wieder brennen wird. Zum endgültigen legen des Feuers sind wir hier, oder? Pfau ruft, Gecko balzt, alles in Ordnung, oder?


February 22, 2018, 12:16:35 PM
 :-* ehrwürdiger bhante johann, letzte nacht davon geträumt, dass es beim ashram brennt!!
ich hoffe, das feuer hat sich gelegt  :-*


February 22, 2018, 11:43:37 AM
Nyom Marcel.


February 22, 2018, 09:08:57 AM


February 22, 2018, 08:49:51 AM
Möge Regen kommen und alle beschützt werden


February 22, 2018, 01:59:08 AM


February 22, 2018, 01:04:19 AM
ich  wünsche einen verdienstvollen uposatha!! all jende für morgen auch einen hervorragenden uposatha!!!
 :-* :-* :-*


February 19, 2018, 06:00:04 PM
Much joy and releasing touches here, Nyom Chris, my person will leave for today, befor it becomes tomorrow, and rest a little.


February 14, 2018, 03:57:33 PM
Sadhu, auch jenen, die ihn morgen, auch Chinesisches Neujahrsfest, begehen, einhalten.


February 14, 2018, 01:37:51 PM
einen verdienstvollen uposatha allen!!!


February 10, 2018, 12:31:09 PM
Sadhu! Mag er fruchtvoll verlaufen sein. Gerade wieder Möglichkeit erhalten, in dieser Welt hier beizutragen.


February 08, 2018, 12:46:43 PM
 :-* :-* :-* ich wünsche allen einen verdienstvollen uposatha  :-* :-* :-*


February 05, 2018, 02:19:14 PM

 :-* :-* :-* sadhu,sadhu,sadhu

 :-* :-* :-*


February 02, 2018, 12:38:06 PM
Meinereiner ist so schnell ie noch nie genesen. Die Symptome des Befalls nur 2 Tage, und die üblichen 5 Tage um das Medikament zu überstehen. Atma ist gerade wohl auf und auch das ist wie für alle nicht sicher. Nutze den Tag heißt vorallem über Alter, Krankheit und Tod, wie Alternative z

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