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Talkbox

2020 Feb 22 20:44:08
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Feb 22 18:45:07
Johann: May all spend a blessed Uposatha, those holding it today and those tomorrow, or both

2020 Feb 19 12:31:58
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2020 Feb 19 12:05:18
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Feb 18 21:27:07
Johann: Nyom

2020 Feb 18 21:02:57
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Feb 18 09:12:06
Danilo: Bhante Johann _/\_

2020 Feb 18 09:10:31
Johann: Nyom Danilo

2020 Feb 16 22:24:43
Moritz: Bang Villa _/\_

2020 Feb 16 10:54:04
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Feb 16 06:43:32
Johann: A blessed Sila day all today, observing the Uposatha Silas

2020 Feb 15 22:34:40
Danilo: Bhante _/\_

2020 Feb 15 22:31:22
Johann: Nyom Danilo

2020 Feb 15 14:16:33
Cheav Villa:  : *thumb* _/\_

2020 Feb 15 13:51:34
Moritz: Bang Villa _/\_

2020 Feb 12 23:36:22
Moritz: Chom reap leah, good night _/\_

2020 Feb 12 23:04:39
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_

2020 Feb 12 23:04:24
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Feb 12 23:03:33
Moritz: Bang Villa _/\_

2020 Feb 12 22:57:44
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Feb 10 18:34:34
Johann: Nyom

2020 Feb 10 15:06:07
Sophorn:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Vandami Bhante

2020 Feb 10 15:05:31
Sophorn: Meister Moritz  _/\_

2020 Feb 10 14:10:41
Moritz: Bang Sophorn _/\_

2020 Feb 09 21:43:05
Johann:  _/\_ Bhante Ariyadhammika

2020 Feb 09 19:11:06
Johann: Nyom

2020 Feb 09 19:06:51
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_

2020 Feb 09 19:06:36
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Feb 09 18:53:15
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2020 Feb 08 22:38:59
Johann: Wie immer zugeneigt, Nyom.

2020 Feb 08 17:21:10
Sophorn:  _/\_ Bhante, es lässt sich nicht hochladen. Kana macht das wie gehabt _/\_

2020 Feb 08 06:18:20
Johann: A blessed full moon Uposatha, a blessed Magha Puja, Sangha day, all today.

2020 Feb 06 20:30:12
Johann:  _/\_ Bhante Ariyadhammika

2020 Feb 04 14:45:08
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Feb 01 06:40:40
Johann: A blessed Sila-day in Union all. May it be by nobody missed for certain not so benifical things.

2020 Jan 31 10:22:34
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 31 07:05:45
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2020 Jan 30 11:25:07
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 30 08:44:22
Johann: Bhante Ariyadhammika  _/\_

2020 Jan 30 05:03:27
Johann: Nyom

2020 Jan 30 03:22:25
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 30 02:39:50
Moritz: Sadhu for good wishes, brother Vivek. Maybe good for another topic :) _/\_

2020 Jan 29 20:10:42
Vivek:  :-|  :) Be courageous for wholesomeness.  :-\  ^-^ but don't attach to it  _/\_  *sgift* . All Youngsters-- be a Veera(celibacy)  ;-)  to reach mahaveera(buddha).  Live and let others live in R.I.P.(rest in peace)  <.I.>

2020 Jan 29 16:05:37
Cheav Villa: Welcome Master Moritz :) _/\_

2020 Jan 29 13:44:04
Moritz: I finally arrived :)

2020 Jan 29 13:43:56
Moritz:  Brother Vivek _/\_

2020 Jan 29 13:43:46
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2020 Jan 28 13:04:10
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 28 12:31:39
Johann: Atmas "sleeping rock" is always a well protected place. The fire now moving fast east into the village, may it case no harm and destruction for all.

2020 Jan 28 12:12:48
Cheav Villa: May Bhante could find a safe place during this fire time _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 26 12:06:21
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 25 23:25:33
Johann: Nyom Villa

2020 Jan 24 09:58:40
Johann: As thought, incl. the Devas.

2020 Jan 24 08:29:47
Cheav Villa: He kept walking on road num 3 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 24 08:28:40
Cheav Villa: But could not help only giving drinking water. Bhante told his lost in this area 3days ago then he walr

2020 Jan 24 08:24:26
Cheav Villa: with Dad and Srey muk kamao, going to visit His Grand ma Grand pa. Fortunately he met Bhante Khmema kumara on the main road

2020 Jan 24 08:22:10
Cheav Villa: Kana Bhante this morning aroung 7.30 kana son arrived near Psar Tram kna on national road number3

2020 Jan 24 08:20:39
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 24 07:05:21
Johann: A blessed chinese new year, new moon Uposatha those who celebrate it today.

2020 Jan 23 21:53:22
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 23 21:46:43
Johann: Sokh chomreoun

2020 Jan 23 21:25:30
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 23 11:48:02
Johann: A blessed and fruitful new moon Uposatha, those observing it today

2020 Jan 22 13:30:29
Johann: May Sukha come to fulfillment, Nyom. It's well for now.

2020 Jan 22 09:39:03
Danilo: did Bhante's health get better?

2020 Jan 22 09:37:11
Danilo: Bhante Johann _/\_

2020 Jan 21 19:20:53
Johann: Meister Moritz

2020 Jan 21 19:01:10
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 21 13:09:02
Johann: Blind like ants are being believing in technic, scients and incapable to trace where and how effects take their cause.

2020 Jan 20 19:30:27
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 19 20:32:04
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2020 Jan 19 20:29:34
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 19 15:01:46
Johann: some moved to topic here

2020 Jan 19 10:20:11
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2020 Jan 19 10:03:16
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 18 08:14:54
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 18 05:57:52
Johann: A blessed and fruitful Sila day

2020 Jan 17 19:19:18
Moritz: Chom reap leah _/\_

2020 Jan 17 18:37:01
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2020 Jan 17 18:14:15
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2020 Jan 17 13:39:36
Sophorn: Many greetings to everyone,

2020 Jan 17 13:39:19
Sophorn:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 17 10:29:19
Johann: "so, now I go up and clear the area a little, make some merits, and I will not share my merits, with anybody..."  ^-^

2020 Jan 17 08:49:11
Chanroth: ធ្វើអាស្រមហើយចេញពីរសេចក្ដីល្អ ធ្វើអ្វីដើម្បីខ្លួល្អជាង

2020 Jan 17 08:45:08
Chanroth: សូមលាហើយ

2020 Jan 17 08:33:16
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 17 06:56:27
Johann: A blessed and fruitful Uposatha, those observing it today.

2020 Jan 17 06:45:45
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2020 Jan 17 06:44:49
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 16 23:01:31
Moritz: Mr. Lew _/\_

2020 Jan 15 14:16:00
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 15 11:15:29
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 15 11:12:01
Johann: Nyom

2020 Jan 15 10:24:02
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_

2020 Jan 15 10:21:50
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2020 Jan 15 10:11:56
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 12 22:22:36
Moritz: Chom reap leah _/\_

2020 Jan 12 22:04:02
Moritz: _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:34:30
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:31:02
Johann: Sokh chomreoun, may happiness come to fullfillment, all

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[Buddha]

Author Topic: [Q&A] Is changing your mind same as lying? Breaking promises  (Read 1788 times)

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Offline Johann

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Is changing your mind same as lying? Breaking promises

Quote from: asked by Digity on DW
Suppose someone asks you to do something that you're on the fence about doing, but you agree to it anyway. Now suppose time passes and you regret the initial agreement and decide not to follow through on it, but give some sort of explanation for why you aren't. Do you consider that a form of lying, since you told the person something that you didn't follow through on?

In short:

Yes, breaking promis is unskilfull and a misconduct in regard of virtue.

If done deliberatly it's a classic ly, what ever reson it was.
If changing one mind later, it's false dealing similar to break a contract.

If a promise can not be fullfilled, out of reasons they are not in the sphere of the promis-maker and the promis-maker did also not possible had a chance to foresee this, than it is not a fault.

When one looks carefully and honest, one might see that most of the promises he/she did and did not fullfill have been faults.

A very serious matter is the matter of vows. Think how many take precepts, knowing that they will break them. Doing such is breaking the precepts while asking after them.

Changing ones mind from unskillful to skillful is not wrong, nevertheless one will face consequences of the breaking of promises, since mostly not understandable for others.

That preasure is mostly the hindrence for changing ones mind to a better.

Lets see, maybe my person is able to record a short talk on it.

[Edit: accidental edit by Moritz, reverted]
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 04:36:36 AM by Moritz »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Antw:[Q&A] Is changing your mind same as lying? Breaking promises
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2017, 08:29:02 PM »
It has become 45min of talk and the matter is really a big one, but can solved with simply being honest and good estimation of ones own capacity and capability. So my person thinks its good to talk and ask much in this matter for may cases to be helped to staighten views and ways.

Here in written words again. When changing the mind to skillful things and therefore not able to keep a promis, it is not unskilful when leaving a contract. Nevertheless one will need to bear the fruits of having made unskillful promises before and will mostly be confronted with consequences and claims for repay or fullfilling the contract.

My person wrote on the topic before here and maybe one might find there also useful warnings and ideas for ones own better way.

Erfog/Misserfolg im Geschäft-Success/fail in trade-ជោគជ័យ/បរាជ័យក្នុងការជួញដូរ

Depts, but to whom?

Could not find the one in regard of the possible effects on not keeping promises for a ascetic, if having been the receiver of a promise. Some might be in German.

This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Antw:[Q&A] Is changing your mind same as lying? Breaking promises
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2017, 07:48:28 AM »
Maybe Nyom maranadhammomhi likes to share it on DW in the OP as well. Changing ones mind into a good direction is rare but in the other direction where often, so also the many faults and problems with it.

If we for example say: "No, no, I will go in this direction." Inform people likely, and later chance or mind, than it's a "problem", if from world to nibbana, one that does not matter.

Or what do others think here?
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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Antw:[Q&A] Is changing your mind same as lying? Breaking promises
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2017, 04:30:32 AM »


Namasakara Bhante,
and whoever is interested,

_/\_ _/\_ _/\_

I had started transcribing this talk some time ago, wanting to reply to it. But then I had not enough time. Here are the parts I transcribed:

Quote from: Samana Johann per Audio
Valued Upasaka, Upasika,
dear listeners,

Atma, my person tries to answer these questions. Pardon my bad English skills and my person's less appealing talking, especially in recording by not seeing another's face.

Question in regard of breaking promises.
The question in regard of changing one's mind.

In regard of breaking precepts and doing unskillful things is actually a very important matter, especially in Western Buddhists. Why? Because there is much of teaching people in equanimity and try to keep them happy instead of to charge rightly and to be honest. So this tendency more into the direction of "let them feel good" rather than to encourage and nourish signs of higher vijja, and it is often very sad to see when people are actually seeing some problems, and at the moment they think about their actions, others come and say: Oh, it's no problem. Don't think so. And in this way they cut off a matter that is very important, to be honest, simply honest, and to take the precepts very serious.
Is it a break of the precepts if one does not keep to one's promise?
My person thinks it's clear if you have a thought that you will not keep the promise and you tell the promise you deliberately cheat people, and such is a really nasty lie. There are maybe lighter occasions where we often lie in such a way [ ... ?] There are situations where one uses lying and promising to things to be light (?). In a way we make, one makes promises to gain honour, or to win a favour. Either from the receiver of that promise, or people watching that act. You see such every day in politics, if you're someone who watches news and is still interested in such things.
So, to make a promise means to make a contract. When you give a promise you make a contract. That's it. Because other people rely on your promise. And relying on your promise, if you break it, the other part loses. He can lose a little, or he can lose very much. He can even lose his life, sticking to your promise. So breaking a promise is not a light thing. Really not a light thing. When you change your mind later your really have to be careful what you are doing. It's like if you have a contract with a company, for example you take on a car by leasing. (If the right word is leasing in English?) You take the car first, you use it, and you pay later. Is it possible that you say: "Oh, I don't like it. I'd like to have another one." Or whatever? So as soon as you have a contract, you have to stick to the contract. And if you really like to leave the contract, you have to tell it, and search for ways how to solve it.

Quote from: Samana Johann per Audio
24:52

When looking exact, you will not find easy excuses that you cannot fulfill a certain promise.

Quote from: Samana Johann per Audio
25:18

Know that this is a very ... for the most... That is actually one reason most monks would not really get verbal[ly] in contact with you. So when you offer something, that you will make something, or do something, good monks would not verbal[ly] agree with it. They just would stay silent. Why? - so that you have most possibilities that you don't come into the problem of promise. It's a matter of deep impact.

So, of course there are reasons not to keep a promise. It is like with a contract. There are reasons to quit the contract, to step out of the contract. And similar it is with the promise you made. But it's not possible in a way of just: "Oh, a change of my mind." If such is happening, actually it happens often, it is very needed to tell it. To say: "I will not come", and to ask for forgiveness.

Nevertheless the karma of the act is still there. But you and also the other will feel better if knowing what's the fact. So others will not continue to build on it. For breaking a promise can cause very much damage. So it's good not to take it very light and easy. And it's good to make not much promises. And if, keep to it. You will not only be honoured in this life, but also in the next existence. There is just one situation where you are nearly in the right to break a worldly promise you had made. That is the time when you start to walk the path. Especially when you go into the homeless life. To give up everything, to change the mind really, in a helpful way for everyone, is a reason that you may not stick to your promises.

There might be many people that are not happy with you.

Thank you for this careful treatment of this subject, and especially the remarks on and explanation of reasons behind good monastic behaviour in regard of it.

As I already alluded to earlier in another topic : "We have a problem with promises "

Maybe I will find some words for talking about my own problems with the topic, here or in some other thread. But for now, I do not promise.

* Johann : made changes for "specified language view".

« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 01:46:46 AM by Johann »

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Antw:[Q&A] Is changing your mind same as lying? Breaking promises
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2017, 04:19:21 PM »
Sadhu!

Nyom Moritz , im Grunde hängt dieses wechseln von Entschlüssen, abbrechen von Versprächen mit rechtem, oder falschem Entschluß zusammen. Es ist der zweite Teil der Anweisung an Rahula: "Wenn während des Tuns, beobachtet wird, daß entweder Leiden für einen selbst, oder für andere, aufkommt: Stop."

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"Während Ihr eine körperliche [gleich für, geistig und verbal] Tat vollzieht, solltet Ihr diese gegenbetrachten: 'Diese körperliche Tat, die ich vollziehe - führt sie zu Selbst-Leid, zum Leid für andere oder zu beidem? Ist sie eine ungeschickte körperliche Tat, mit schmerzvollen Nachwirkungen, schmerzvollen Ergebnissen?' Wenn Ihr mit dem Gegenbetrachten wißt, daß sie zu Selbst-Leid, zu Leid für andere oder zu beidem führt... solltet Ihr sie aufgeben. Aber wenn Ihr mit dem Gegenbetrachten wißt, daß diese nicht... mögt [gibt es keinen Grund für ein legitimes Brechen eines Versprechens] Ihr damit fortsetzten.

In solch einem Fall (Druchführen breche Silas), wenn da nicht Trübungen oder Ausreden ins Spiel gekommen sind, dann ist ein Abbrechen eines Versprechens recht und gut.

Das gilt auch für Geistiges. Denken wir an "Liebesschwur", um einen harten Fall zu nehmen, oder Religionsbekenntnis, oder was immer.

Wie gesagt, kann man dennoch in Verbindlichkeiten stecken und "muß" ggf. "Strafe" für's nichteinhalten, wenn für den anderen die Gründe nicht nachvollziehbar, zahlen, die Konsequenzen tragen. In der Regel fällt solches vollzogen, dann aber nicht mehr schwer, und man findet auch keinen wahren Grund der Reue für eine Handlung aus rechter Entschlossenheit:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"Und was ist rechte Entschlossenheit? Entschlossen in Entsagung zu sein, in Freiheit von Feindschaft, in Nichtverletzen: Dies, Bhikkhus, wird rechte Entschlossenheit genannt.

— SN 45.8

Mag dies Kreise Schließen, und was die Lösung für alle Versprechen ist, gibts nur eine: Nibbana, alle Arbeit getan, jeder Pflicht enthoben.

Jedes Handeln ist dann einfach: So
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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