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Author Topic: [En] Karma and Gratitude, Bhante Thanissaro  (Read 1053 times)

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Offline Johann

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[En] Karma and Gratitude, Bhante Thanissaro
« on: July 13, 2017, 02:51:40 PM »
Karma & Gratitude

eveningtalk, given by Ven. Thanissaro Bhikkhu at Wat Metta

9.June 2017/2561

~14 min., 7,6 MB

Generously shared via dhammatalks.org


Download: http://sangham.net/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=get515
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Sophorn

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Re: [En] Karma and Gratitude, Bhante Thanissaro
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2017, 06:15:49 PM »
 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Karma and Gratitude
A Dhammatalk given by Bhante Thanissaro

When the Buddha talks about gratitude he does so on the context of the teaching on karma and rebirth. And it's worth thinking of the implications of that are: when he's talking about mondial in review.
That there are good and bad actions, and these actions have results. (But) in this lifetime onto the next. He mentions as just in phrase: There is mother and father, which seems almost too obvious to say. We all have mothers and fathers. But when he meant them in the context in the time was that you owe them gratitude to, and it's because of the nature of karma that you do.
There are people who thought that whatever people do is totally influenced or totally determined by say, the stars or some creator, God, by their ___ , in other words, people don't have choices. It's when yor parents told you that they had no choice, no matter. When they raised you they had no choice, no matter. It's just what they had to do. And so there is no special effect of gratitude there. It's just influences from the stars or influences from whatever else acting through them.
But the Buddhist teaching on karma has several features that make gratitude an appropriate response. One is that we have freedom of choice. Our actions are real. And they come from our intentions and we have a choice on what choice of intentions we have to act on.
So when someone does anything good to you, it does have a meaning. It was a choice. Even if they had to go out of their way, if they had to make sacrifices - it's worth your gratitude.

(But) the word for gratitude in Pali (is) "kataññū" contains the root "kata". "Kata" comes from the word "to do". You literally know and appreciate what has been done. This is why gratitude is different from general appreciation. We can appreciate the trees, we can appreciate the weather right now. It's making it easy to practise. But there's noone doing that.

We want to argue a creator, God, is doing that: Why is it more difficult for a God to do things pleasantly than unpleasantly? But the Buddha's teachings are just the way things are in terms of the way it rather works, the way plans work. They have no decisions in no matter. And it's when people make the decision to be on a parade and do something good. That requires special response on your part, both for the person who is good to you. You want to repay that goodness. And also fo your own realization that other peole may benefit from your going on of your way for them, unless you want to spread goodnes around. This kind of reflection opens your heart, widens your heart, makes you more likely who want to go out of your way.

There is a sentence, I'm not sure if it's Thai or is it in the Pali Canon: "Gratitude is a sign of a good person." It is chipped out for this reason. If someone appreciates the goodness of other people done and demand that they had to go out of their way. There where all kinds of difficulties. That makes it more likely that they themselves will be willing to go out of their way to be helpful, to be good.

(4:00) There is a case here as "Bheagwa"… The family lived down there from the monastery. They had a big ruckus one night. The son from the father's previous marriage came back. He was an adult now. They had a huge argument. The father It came to huge aguments with his Father. (He) kicked him downstairs, (and) broke both his legs. When the news came to the monastery Ajahn Fuang's first comment was: "You can never trust that son. If he was willing to do this to his father, he wil do it with anybody."
So, gratitude is a sign of a good person. And it is an attitude that gives rise to more goodness within us.

(4:40) In particular, what the Buddha talks about the debt we have to our parents, because, after all, our lives, we have our body because of them. Even if they weren't the best parents, at least, we have this human life, and this particular body right now, so they have particularly deserving the feeling of gratitude. Now the Buddha said the best way to repay that is: If they are stingy people you try them to be generous. If they are not virtuous you try teach them to be virtuous. In other words, whatever goodness they are not alike you try to influence them some in that direction. And, of course, you know how hard it to teach your parents. You have to be really subtle and very wise in how you do that. But it i possible. I have seen cases. They'll reflect further on that. The Buddha's teachings on parents is… There is that statement you will never meet - or it will be very hard to meet someone who hasn't been your mother or father in the past. Now some people take that and say that means you should feel affectionate to everybody because they have been your parent, one or another.
But the Buddha takes it into a different direction: He says you give rise in a sense of dismay. All these times you have been parents and all the times, all these parents you've been parents to somebody else. That's back and forth, back and forth, back and forth like this, and we know that's like between children and parents.

This also fits into the teaching of karma: There's straight clear karma and there's dark karma. Clear karma crosses good karma and dharma with good intentions and dark karma, dharma with bad intentions mixed; and then, there is a karma that leads away from karma, leads to an end of karma. And you look at the karma we have with everyone around us. We've had - who knows how long - and it's going to be a real mixture: clear and dark.

And what your parents want: satisfactory. And then, you've been a parent sometimes and, of course, what you do besides satisfactory to your children, too, and so karma goes back and forth, between clear and dark, clear and dark.
(7.12) It never gets anywhere, unless you decide to get out. So it's another good reflection. One of the best you can do to the whole mass of people who - all these people who've been your parents and all the people who you've been parents of in the past. It's just: get out of the system. That's what we're doing as we meditate. That's why the reflection on gratitude is one useful way of getting the mind to be willing to settle down in the present moment, realizing "This is the way, as the Buddha said, that's karma but leads to the end of karma. All the entanglement ___ was karma. So, at ___?

This is the first semon of the Eight Noble Truths. Everythi from right view onto right concentration. That's the karma that leads to the end of karma. So, it's working on concentration, in other words, basically right now it's right effort, right mindfulness,right concentration altogether. It's what we're trying to develop. That's part of this karma that gets us out of this tangle. And give the best possible way of repaying the people that we've been so immediately connected with before. We can dedicate to give goodness to them. If the appreciate it, they will benefit.
So you take your mind around the world, take your mind around a huge span of time, and then you zero when on the present moment, because the present moment is the way out.

(8:56) This is the same pattern that the Buddha thought the night he was awakening. His first knowledge was about time and how far it goes back. And all the narratives of his life. If you think you had narratives, sit down here. The Buddha has thousands of thousands of them. Thus, having so many that it got reduced to the bare essentials: This is what he looked like, what his name was or what he was called. This is experience of pleasure and pain. This is what he ate and this is how he died. That's life. Five sentences. No one after the another. ___ that you're pretty tying up in the narratives. The next question is: Does everybody else is following this pattern, too?

(9.42) The second knowledge is awareness spread to fill the entire universe. You realize that everybody goes through that process and then seeing that, in fact, everybody went through this process, he also thought: What drove it? Basically, it was intentions. And intentions were skillful or unskillful depending whether they were based on right view or wrong view.
So, the third question was what kind of intentions lead out? That's when he gained the knowledge that he was awakening. So, sometimes, you just sit down to meditate. It's good to think about past expenses of time, past expenses of the universe to see the common patterns and then realize that the common patterns are generated here in your mind in the present moment.

(10.31) Which is why we're working right here. The working on your mind here and working on your intentions trying to get some control of your intentions as a gift to yourself and the people around you. That is one of the good things that the Buddha talks about, merit. It's basically instructions how to find happiness and the engagement of the world in a way that doesn't cause any suffering, that doesn't cause any harm to anybody. In other words, happiness spreads around. And meditation is one of those activities where the happiness, where the goodness spreads around.This is most clearly if you've been meditating and the mind is filled with anger before the time to meditate. But with the time you're done the anger has subsided. That means you've saved the people around you from theventer that might have been expressed in your words or your deeds.

(11.34) And the more time you give to meditation the more you try them on, the more deep the results become. And the more deep the impact ___ are on other people. So, all that contemplation comes under what the Buddha calls generating desire. It's part of right effort generating desire to do something skillful. To understand what action is and your power of choice, unless you are going to use that power well. You're not like the congress man in that New Yorker cartoon when he's coming down the steps the capitalist is saying: What use of power when you cannot use it? What kind of power? "If you abuse it, you're going to to be the one who is abused!"

The one who uses power of choice - you want to choose it well. And you can. The Buddha is showing you how. Instructions are not superhuman. If said it was thought as superhuman he wouldn't have taught them. That's when the mind feels tempted to go out... some play sounds. Remind yourself: Do what you're doing right here, being with your breath! And you may not see the results you want right away. At least, is headed into the right direction. We don't just sit in the present moment. The present moment is an arrow that moves into he future. Timehas an arrow. Tin me has any arrow. That's what you do now will have an impact now and on into the future.
So, sometimes, the immediate impact is not what you want when it's not as good1 as you want but it's headed in the right direction. It's part of a path. The path that leads to knowledge, the path that leads to awakening. The path that leads to goodness all around.

So, when you're tempted to slip off the path, remind yourself: it's hard to find a path this good. Ann's whenever you're slipping off, is pretty miserable in comparison.
And so, in this way, that reflection and gratitude in the context of karma can bring you right here. Doing what you should be doing in terms of the duties of the Four Noble Truths. Duties that are imposed on you, but you want to put an end to suffering - and this is how it's done and here's your opportunity to do it!
So let that thought be uplifting!

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

N.B.: Einige Passagen sind unklar oder ev. falsch geschrieben , daher sind Korrekturen jederzeit willkommen.

[Johann bemerkt]
« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 03:00:41 PM by Johann »

Offline Johann

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Re: [En] Karma and Gratitude, Bhante Thanissaro
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2017, 02:31:55 PM »
Sadhu! Nyom Sophorn .

* The father kicked him downstairs, broke both his legs.

Scheint ein "Versprecher" von Bhante zu sein, oder ein The father kicked "by" him downstairs, broke both his legs.

(Atma gerade mitten im Lesen)

Oh nein... Punkt! Son of previous marriage... (Then it) Came to huge arguments with, the father... (He -the son) kicked him downstairs, broke both his legs.

Past auch zum Kontext, wenn nochmal angehört.
(Satzteilschlucker wie Atma, Bhante, wenn's um "Geschichten geht)

* There is a case here as "Bheagwa"

Vielleicht: "There is a case here, as back, where... (herausgeschnitten, die Einleitung?) Oder der Ort von Ajahn Fuangs Kloster? Aber dann paßt das "here" nicht in den Kontext.

* There are people who thought that whatever people do is totally influenced or totally determined by say, the stars or some creator, God, (or) by their past karma, in other words, people ...

* That's why the reflection on gratitude is one useful way of getting the mind to be willing to settle down in the present moment, realizing this is the way, as the Buddha said, that's karma but leads to the end of karma, and all the entanglement(s) that come(s) with karma.

* ___ that you're pretty tying up in the narratives. Aus em Kontext vielleicht: ...but it is not so that he (oder you) get up caught in the narratives:... d.h: "die Geschichte endet nicht hiermit (den Geschichten von früher)"
« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 03:43:04 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Johann

October 12, 2018, 04:13:16 PM
Good to see Nyom Norum.
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 10:38:10 AM
Maybe of support for lasting satifaction: Seeds of Becoming .
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 06:57:38 AM
When ever love arises, dislike will be it's end. Who ever seeks out for friends, will get his enemy. Why? Because not willing to leave home. May wanderer gus find the way to never return. Mudita

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:58 AM
Vandami.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:22 AM
Nevertheless my courage of active participation  has been fallen down. Anyway I hope to come time to time.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam khamata me bhante.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:37:11 AM
Okasa bhante,

I didn't accepted Dymitros invitation to start a Theravada forum, because I thought this forum is pure Theravada. Now I regret about it, yet think this forum is comparatively good.  I learnt many valuable things from you and grateful to you. Nevertheless my courage of active partici
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 02:20:29 AM
What ever one searches for, that he/she will find. Less are those seeing the nature of combined thing, leaving home and go beyond Maras domain.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:45:18 PM
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:39:12 PM
When one is born in outer regions ... your island has drifted away.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:30:00 PM
macchariya, a boarder hard to cross to the middle way, abounding home, sakayaditthi, doubt and rituals.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:33:02 PM
However much one say, West is West, East is East.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 02:28:29 PM
Where ever there is east, there is west. And vici versa. Where ever there is nama, there is rupa. Where ever one seeks for a home, there he will suffer.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:03:31 PM
West is West

gus

October 06, 2018, 09:56:42 AM
belief of kamma, gratitude, independence, honesty, devotion : These are hard to find in people
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:49:14 AM
Again, a latin proverb mit be useful: Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi , patisota is always harmful if not just one own defilements or having a proper stand to help. Sota is the virtue required to resist in borderlands.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:41:52 AM
If in a borderland it's better to simply serve and support the Sangha. It's not smart to seek for other householders to nurish on traced imperfections of something required to uphold, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 04:54:48 AM
Okasa, happy to hear such things reagarding kamma. Many monks I have met don't directly speak about kamma because they have been tired after practicing some years and now bit relaxed.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:17:26 AM
Such can be total kusala and total akusala or simply defuse. Set your mind right and be mindful, that nothing will be of harm for yourself and others.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:15:27 AM
There is nothing not permitted. Merits or demerits are the actors responsibility. One is full in charge of ones action in this Domain here, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 03:50:00 AM
Bhante, is it permitted to ask questions or post things on behalf of other/future people ?

gus

October 05, 2018, 09:19:32 AM
We have been advised like this:
"No matter however much monks reject you,
Never leave the place."
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 09:09:37 AM
It's good when wanderer gus takes a rest, turns to a lonly place, enjoys the merits done and find a good place for his mind and fixes possible open wholes when clear where he likes to go some hours later.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 08:59:03 AM
Wanderer Gus knows how foolish this statement is. That is not the way to get out of a hole.

gus

October 05, 2018, 08:42:59 AM
okasa,
falling down from a status is suffering.
So, if I could stay in the hell-being status from the beginning, then no suffering.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:33:20 AM
From a state of a young Bhikkhu equal tradition...to householder... ...asura (now) on the border to animal, peta, hell-state. It can go quick if not having firm nissaya.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:29:27 AM
Aniccam vatta samsara...

gus

October 05, 2018, 06:56:28 AM
Evolution:
Bhante subhuti =>
Upasaka gus =>
Deva gus =>
Asura gus.

In the future:
Asura gus =>
Peta gus =>
Animal gus =>
Hell-being gus ???

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:51:42 AM
Okasa, I think bhante thinks me as a patriot because of some content of my posts. But it is not.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 05:41:33 AM
What ever one likes to, not touched like the moon, does not mean to praise what is blameworthy and vici-versa and to have metta not to let people run into hell if ways can be pointed out. Yet other choices at least are their. Be quick, your island drifts away!

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:34:15 AM
Okasa,
As long as I don't do exactly what you say, I think I'll not be able to make you happy or satisfied.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 02:12:55 PM
If thinking that this is for sure, if delighting in believing that connected things are a refuge and give space to rest: one may do so. Ones own choice. When ever one stops to nurish inwardly, ouwardly path and fruits die. Good as well as bad.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:28:51 AM
If bhante didn't let the weak person to live in avatar/deva mode, then he will lose both openness and connection. Up to now I have secured at least the connection.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:22:24 AM
Yet I appreciate and pay vandana for your care and advice on openness.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:19:56 AM
Please forgive me  bhante if I have made you tired. I don't like to accumulate akusala by making a monk tired in expecting a naughty chicken to be a good duck.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam Khamtu me bhante!
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:07:06 AM
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:01:00 AM
Differnt asked "why is Bhante not happy, dwell not in outwardly seeming being not touched?" Because it would not only confirm and show sign of aggreement of unwise acts, but also very incompassionate and cruel. Also place for suspecting corrupt ways and invite others to follow the comfortable dwelli
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:54:12 AM
No one is able to make my person angry, which does not mean that he would not appear angry so to possible prevent from doing what is not conductive for liberation, even lead in lower states. Nothing to worry, but also no invitation to test it foolish since it could hurt one self and others.

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:46:39 AM
Okasa bhante, Isn't there at least single way to stay anonymous without making you angry?
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:33:12 AM
corr: "it's, the domain of the Noble Ones, is nobody's personal domain" there are no wards around fields for merits and no tickets to pay
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:29:31 AM
What ever Deva gus feels inspired. It's oneones personal domain and all giving is good in the distance of the brigh cool moon. One should not fear, should not be shy to do what is good and praised by the wise but be quick!

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:21:39 AM
Bhante, is that mean you don't like me to talk about higher subjects and like to talk about basics only?
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:02:12 AM
It would be more than good if teaching others a lot on the topic vandami (paying respect) and khamatu (asking for forgiviness) since unknown and not practiced here around this field of merits in compassion to former relatives, Deva gus.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:55:38 AM
...total no problem to dwell and lay down in the cool shadow to heal at all and no need to ask for pardon when intended for progressing and to get fit for the battles so hard to win.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:52:39 AM
But they would not feed them in ways which might look as nurishing relations for wordly sake directly, for people not understanding would think "look, he is herding, carry for his cattle, he wasts the gift of the land, the heritage of the Gems for his becoming and own gain. Understood? Total no prob
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:45:29 AM
Never would people of integrity send away pets, petas or sick, for they are not able to change for now but possible can gain of what they need to change.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:42:28 AM
If, just to think about, one lives deliberatly with sign showing a rejection of firm trust in kamma, one lives in nurishing the danger of falling into grave wrong views and give ways that others follow what is improper to do. Just to reflect. How ever wishing to do.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:36:03 AM
What ever one does, holds as refuge or abounds, either good or bad refuge, one does for one self. Ones own choices, ones own fruits, ones own limitations, hindrences.

gus

October 04, 2018, 09:28:15 AM
Khamatu me bhante!
My previous  post was this.
"Please forgive me and give birth to kindness ao as to let me live here anonymous "
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:21:35 AM
... doing so based on gratitude without just trading in giving, or out of duty in a relation one resits, one is able to get not only to the borders, but into Noble ones domain.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:19:27 AM
And to put much into such sacrifies of giving ones honor, ones dwelling, ones source of food (family), one possession (even intelectual), the Dhamma one has made his own

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