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[Buddha]

Author Topic: [Q&A] Is fifth precept (indoxication) included in the Noble Eightfold Path?  (Read 219 times)

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Offline Johann

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Is fifth precept (avoiding indoxication) included in the Noble Eightfold Path?

Is fifth precept included in the Noble Eightfold Path?

In the following video this monk said that consuming alcohol is a latter addition to the fifth precept and hence not part of the Noble Eightfold Path. I wish to know your thoughts on this.

https://youtu.be/VI3dT4aXkfM?t=3163

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

 _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community _/\_ , my person tries to answer this question. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,

 *sgift*

(This is a maybe modified and expanded answer of the "original" - which also could have been changed by third person - that can be found here   . )


- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa  -

Upasaka Sarath,

The custom of asking for precepts, and most explanations about them, and how to train, including all the factor things, are later developments: to sort out something easier to catch by many, even not having found the prerequisite of right resolve.

Instances where the Buddha counted all five are few. Mostly he would speak "only" about the first four, since those are the "real" outwardly actions. Yet he did also often point out the drawbacks of intoxication: it is intoxication which is actually the obstacle, the antidote of right resolve, and it has many layers. He therefore was in all ways eager to encourage on the subject of intoxication: and since (with intoxication) it is not possible to gain right resolve or to have right resolve, it is clear that intoxication is an obstacle for the eightfold path, the most gross: by taking physical food to maintain such.

As for the Silas, conduct that at least provides possible best relations and security in a community, they are not only given for gaining the highest goal, since the Buddha knew that very few beings would strive for it.

If seeking this virtue within the four precepts, one actually finds it in the 3rd: "Kamesu", later "Abrahmacariya".

One also does not find it directly in the main precepts of monks, which also display "only" the four. But again, intoxication, gross or subtle, is always the root of transgressing the basic four.

Look here, who much breaking of the precepts is done but intoxicating with becoming and being on BSe. The more people are addicted to it, use such a substance for relaxation, the more they tend to real worse thing.

At least intoxication makes crazy, and is the cause of an existence of being a fool and/or have crave mental lacks.

So for a virtuous lay-person, following the Buddha, wishing to attain the path within, not only at the end of ones live, having a secure dwelling and most secure future destination, indoxication, that causes heedlessness, lack of conscience, has to be avoided. It's part of the duties for lay people, is sad in the Dhammika ("Buddhist") - Sutta:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"Now I will tell you the layman's duty. Following it a lay-disciple would be virtuous; for it is not possible for one occupied with the household life to realize the complete bhikkhu practice (dhamma).

"He should not kill a living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should he incite another to kill. Do not injure any being, either strong or weak, in the world.

"A disciple should avoid taking anything from anywhere knowing it (to belong to another). He should not steal nor incite another to steal. He should completely avoid theft.

"A wise man should avoid unchastity as (he would avoid falling into) a pit of glowing charcoal. If unable to lead a celibate life, he should not go to another's wife.

"Having entered a royal court or a company of people he should not speak lies. He should not speak lies (himself) nor incite others to do so. He should completely avoid falsehood.

"A layman who has chosen to practice this Dhamma should not indulge in the drinking of intoxicants. He should not drink them nor encourage others to do so; realizing that it leads to madness. Through intoxication foolish people perform evil deeds and cause other heedless people to do likewise. He should avoid intoxication, this occasion for demerit, which stupefies the mind, and is the pleasure of foolish people.

Do not kill a living being;
do not take what is not given;
do not speak a lie;
do not drink intoxicants;
abstain from sexual intercourse;
do not eat food at night, at the wrong time;
do not wear flower-garlands nor use perfumes;
use the ground as a bed or sleep on a mat.

And of course, a person having entered the stream whould not deliberatly indoxicate himself, in a way that it becomes root for breaking the precepts, would not give deliberatly signs of approve indoxications as well.

The linked Sutta should possible cut away the believe that the Buddha approved indoxitation for what ever aspiration within his Sasana, good wandering on, avoiding downfall or liberation, all paths in this world, following him.

And, being indoxicated, it is not possible to gain path or fruit, therefore, avoiding the indoxication, with means which cause heedlessness, is part of the Noble Eightfold Path for having delivering effects.

Appamāda !

[Note: this is a gift of Dhamma and not meant for commercial use or other wordily gains, also not for getting indoxicated but to become sober and gain release.]

(Part of the text generously corrected in regard of spelling, by Nyom Chris, revision #3 )
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 04:00:35 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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April 22, 2018, 09:11:17 AM
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Namasakara, Bhante. _/\_
 

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April 10, 2018, 01:09:20 PM
Nyom. (Sideboad ist stets zugeklappt... tech. Probl.) 3:00 ist auch schon guten Tag.
 

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Take your time Nyom Danilo and watch the breath to stay best calm for best benefit. A lot of chances to get ride of many ols burdens.
 

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March 31, 2018, 09:52:03 AM
 :-* ich wünsche allen ein verdienstvollen uposatha  :-*
 

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March 27, 2018, 06:44:11 PM
Atma zieht sich hier nun zurück. Möge sich Vollkommenheit einstellen.
 

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Nyom Binocular.
 

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March 27, 2018, 01:47:58 PM
Brahmane Hanspeter.
 

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March 27, 2018, 01:41:50 PM
Moritz, mag sich Vollendung ergeben. (Chamreun bo)
 

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March 27, 2018, 12:20:53 PM
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March 27, 2018, 12:11:33 PM
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March 26, 2018, 01:42:45 PM
Nyom Binocular.

my person will leave for today and rests. There have been left some hard challenges (sure for many). May they be releasing taken and increase conviction.
 

Johann

March 25, 2018, 01:40:14 PM
Gute Antwort. Sadhu!
 

Marcel

March 25, 2018, 12:46:12 PM
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beste wünsche zurück an erhwürdigen bhante! es ist unsicher wann ich wieder komme! upanissayapaccayena!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

March 25, 2018, 12:28:38 PM
Marcel.
(Heute im Nordkloster, best wünsche vom Abt dort, er fragt stets "Wann kommt er? Ich muß immer an ihn denken."
 

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March 24, 2018, 10:44:34 AM
Sadhu!
 

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March 24, 2018, 09:52:48 AM
 :-* heute ist uposatha!! ich wünsche allen ein verdienstvollen tag! mögen die devas jene bescheid geben, die kein zugang haben! :-*
 

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March 23, 2018, 11:37:46 AM
Sadhu! Zu was immer einer Zuflucht nimmt, sich hingibt, daran erfreut, das wird/ist sein Schutz, für Bindung oder Ungebundenheit.
 

Marcel

March 23, 2018, 01:43:01 AM
 :-* möge die drei juwelen den ehrwürdigen bhante beschützen und ihn auf seinem weg unterstützen :-*
 

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March 23, 2018, 01:28:02 AM
Kampf der Devas mit den Asuras um den Berg. :)
 

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March 23, 2018, 01:26:30 AM
Regenzeit... außen trüb und unangenehm, nagend, faulend, doch dahinter ist alles fein.
 

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March 23, 2018, 01:10:47 AM
 :-* ehrwürdiger bhante johann, ja soweit alles gut! und wie geht es ihnen?  :-*
 

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March 23, 2018, 12:58:05 AM
verlesen... Marcel :) alles gut im (ver)laufen?
 

Johann

March 23, 2018, 12:26:23 AM
Moritz
 

Administration

March 21, 2018, 03:42:55 PM
Sadhu!
 

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March 21, 2018, 03:32:47 PM
 :-* mögen sie alle noch in diesem leben das herz von avijja befreien!!! :-*
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 05:20:12 AM
This "wiki"-like backup tool is meant as a outwardy insurance that one does not be afraid that anything possible good can be desroyed or made bad while looking for cleaning it. So worry at all, kamma does not dissapear. No need to fear to make good deeds, knowing that.
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 04:03:35 AM
And there is no intention to just make a museum out of a working and concentration camp, since the Dhamma can not be understood by just looking on forms but by learning and experiance skillful deeds.
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 04:00:47 AM
Post-history: http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,1164.0.html (but there is no notification system). My person uses to make a @mention , off topic "/me" in the OP.
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 03:49:28 AM
Or to simply make a new post. No need to be shy in doing good things. It's not a museum, it's a working and concentration place. Mudita.
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 03:47:57 AM
There is such as a "wiki" backup function in all posts, Nyom Danilo. Good is to use the mention option, at the places where making changes @Johann , that it gets not "lost".
 

Danilo

March 19, 2018, 03:02:46 AM
I have a backup of the original post in any case. I might review the second post next time. Very insightful teaching. _/\_
 

Danilo

March 19, 2018, 03:01:35 AM
I've recently fixed many words and sentences of the first post of the thread "Debts, but to whom?". It take me some time trying to figure out the meaning of some sentences. So it would be good if Bhante could check if the original intended meaning of the post still intact. I have a backup of the ori
 

Danilo

March 19, 2018, 01:57:28 AM
_/\_ _/\_ _/\_

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