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Talkbox

2019 Feb 18 01:21:42
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2019 Feb 18 01:21:10
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 18 01:16:11
Johann: Bhante. Nyom Villa.

2019 Feb 18 01:14:29
Johann: Nyom Moritz. Sokh chomreoun

2019 Feb 18 00:34:02
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Feb 15 04:14:01
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 15 03:43:29
Johann: Another day, another possibility. We don't know what tomorrow might be

2019 Feb 15 03:43:01
Johann: ថ្ងៃ ថ្មី មួូយ ជា ឳកាស ថ្មី មួយ ទៀត។ យើង មិន អាច ដឹង មុន នូវ អ្វី ដែល នឹង កើតឡើង ថ្ងៃ ស្អែក

2019 Feb 12 05:47:26
Johann: Nyom Chanroth

2019 Feb 11 07:35:04
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 11 07:01:15
Johann: Bhante

2019 Feb 10 15:18:50
Vithou: Hope Preah Ang doing well too.. Thanks Preah Ang

2019 Feb 10 15:17:51
Vithou: Nhom kuna doing well so far.

2019 Feb 10 12:29:57
Johann: Nyom Vithou. But Nyom is well so far?

2019 Feb 10 12:02:00
Vithou: Actually they put in the kidnee. :)

2019 Feb 10 12:01:26
Vithou:  take it out on 20 Feb

2019 Feb 10 12:01:25
Vithou:  take it out on 20 Feb

2019 Feb 10 12:01:12
Vithou: the doctor put it for one month . I will

2019 Feb 10 12:00:28
Vithou: Kuna Tvay Bongkom Preah Ang  nyom kuna is fne now but still have a pipe inside mybody

2019 Feb 10 11:47:41
Johann: Sokh chomreoun Nyom Buddhi

2019 Feb 10 11:44:41
Ieng Puthy: ករុណាខានបានចូលមកក្នុងវេបសាយអានព្រះធម៌អស់ប៉ុន្មានថ្ងៃ

2019 Feb 10 11:41:53
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំុ Vandami Bhante

2019 Feb 09 14:43:21
Cheav Villa: សួស្តី​ពូចាន់រ័ត្ម _/\_

2019 Feb 09 14:42:08
Johann: ញោម Chanroth

2019 Feb 09 11:32:48
Johann: ខ្លះ ... how ever, good to here

2019 Feb 09 10:30:33
Cheav Villa: វិធូថាគាត់បានធូរខ្លះហើយ គាត់នឹងរកពេលទូលព្រះអង្គ តាម​Talk box  _/\_

2019 Feb 09 02:49:21
Cheav Villa: កូណាបានសួរគាត់ដែរ តែមិនទាន់មានការឆ្លើយតបទេ ប្រហែលជាគាត់រវល់ខ្លាំង  _/\_

2019 Feb 08 15:24:14
Johann: How is Nyom Vithou doing, Nyom Villa? Nyom Chanroth told that he still has burden after the hospital.

2019 Feb 07 13:07:06
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 07 13:04:40
Johann: Nearly out of power("suns gift") for today again. May all give into good deeds with their power left.

2019 Feb 07 13:04:33
Johann: Nearly out of power("suns gift") for today again. May all give into good deeds with their power left.

2019 Feb 05 13:35:45
Johann: Meister Vinodh

2019 Feb 05 08:45:20
Johann: មុដិតា

2019 Feb 05 07:46:50
Cheav Villa: អរព្រះគុណ​ ព្រះអង្គ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ ពួកខ្ញុំកូណា បានធូរស្បើយ​ច្រើន​ អំពីបញ្ហាសុខភាពរាងកាយ​  _/\_

2019 Feb 05 07:25:29
Johann: Nyom Villa. Family, all healthy and well?

2019 Feb 05 03:34:18
Johann: Mr. Nathan

2019 Feb 04 13:42:11
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Feb 04 04:25:07
Cheav Villa: កូណា​ត្រេកអរ​ ដែលបានឃើញផ្លូវទៅមុខ ឧបនិស្ស័យ​ការបដិបត្តិ​ឧបោសថ​យឺតយូរ​  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 04 04:22:09
Cheav Villa: ការហាត់ធ្វើឧបោសថបានបន្តិចបន្តួួច ដោយវិធីស្រាយចំណងដែលជាប់មាំ

2019 Feb 04 04:18:58
Cheav Villa: ព្រះអង្គ​ _/\_ ចិត្តនឿយណាយចន្លោះពេលបានសុខ និងបានទុក្ខ

2019 Feb 04 04:04:13
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ កូណាព្រះអង្គ

2019 Feb 04 03:55:36
Johann: English iti 49

2019 Feb 04 03:51:37
Johann: Importand teaching in regard of wishing for becoming or not-becoming! ទិដ្ឋិគតសូត្រ (១២.)

2019 Feb 04 03:37:57
Johann: It can be observed free of all Sakaya ditthi as well.

2019 Feb 04 03:25:52
Johann: Uposatha is a good tradition to take on.

2019 Feb 04 03:24:53
Johann: This, the Buddha told, can not be archived by just wishing, Nyom, the end of suffering.

2019 Feb 04 02:23:26
Cheav Villa: May​ all possibilities in a rebirth has decreased  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 04 02:18:49
Cheav Villa: Since my grandmother, my dad, I kana has not taken on the traditional of Chinese new year

2019 Feb 04 01:28:26
Johann: An insightful Chines New Year and new moon day, a rebirth of another round of possibility in chosing ways with every action.

2019 Feb 03 16:08:02
Ieng Puthy: ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំុព្រះអង្គvandami 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

2019 Feb 03 12:20:05
Cheav Villa:  កូណាព្រះអង្គ  _/\_ 

2019 Feb 03 12:10:00
Johann: Nyom Villa

2019 Feb 03 07:06:33
Johann: Nyom Buddhi

2019 Feb 02 16:53:13
Johann: All a matter of leaving house and not searching for the next, Nyom.

2019 Feb 02 16:51:36
Johann: Editing post here is not so good since there is a software issue, cutting away all to 200 characters.

2019 Feb 02 16:18:35
Ieng Puthy: ព្រះអង្គករុណានឹករលឹកភ្នំឱរា៉ល់ណាស់ សង្ឃឹមថាថ្ងៃណាមួយករុណានឹងបានទៅថ្វាយបង្គំុព្រះអង្គដោយផ្ទាល់ ។ បេីបុណ

2019 Feb 02 15:52:20
Johann: Nyom Buddhi

2019 Feb 02 15:35:54
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំុVandami Bhante.

2019 Feb 02 15:33:38
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

2019 Feb 02 10:35:46
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 02 08:36:16
Johann: Atma will then make a "sun-break" for today

2019 Feb 01 11:36:30
Ieng Puthy: ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំ🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻Vandami Bhante

2019 Jan 31 15:55:14
Johann: Bhante Muni

2019 Jan 30 15:40:30
Johann: Nyom Buddhi

2019 Jan 30 05:24:55
Johann: "sreng" is really "nasty" if becoming. It's also easy to get by sweeping dusty group and dry gras.

2019 Jan 30 04:35:46
Cheav Villa: កូណាព្រះអង្គ  _/\_

2019 Jan 30 04:11:18
Johann: It's possible not "sreng", Nyom, it's autumn diseas, and infection not to be healed. The origin why the Buddha allowed tonics ("food" at "wrong" time), weakness of the body.

2019 Jan 30 03:27:08
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jan 30 01:12:39
Sophorn: Bhante Khemakura, kana hofft, Bhante geht es besser!  _/\_

2019 Jan 30 01:12:10
Sophorn: Vandami Bhante Khemakura  _/\_

2019 Jan 30 01:11:53
Sophorn: Vandami Bhante Indannano  _/\_

2019 Jan 30 01:11:38
Sophorn: Vandami Bhante Johann _/\_

2019 Jan 29 10:12:10
Johann: Bhante. Wie geht es der Unterlippe?

2019 Jan 27 04:59:09
Johann: Nyom Vithou

2019 Jan 26 14:38:07
Cheav Villa: Vandāmi Bhante Indaññāno  _/\_

2019 Jan 25 16:12:30
Cheav Villa:  :o _/\_

2019 Jan 25 16:04:02
Johann: There are two, actually. Something to be careful about.

2019 Jan 25 15:39:25
Cheav Villa: Vilāsa  :D karuṇā found this meaning in Pāḷi Dictionary  _/\_

2019 Jan 25 15:24:52
Johann: No vaṇṇa-macchariya: rejoicing that other appear as vilasa as oneself... Sadhu!

2019 Jan 25 15:17:51
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jan 25 14:29:43
Johann: If Ñoma Buddhi likes to wear the color of an ārāmikinī, to be able to edit, add translations, corrections, it should be no problem. Ñoma Vīḷa might help to get known the "power and responsibility" of goodness.

2019 Jan 25 14:22:02
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏼អរព្រះគុណព្រះអង្គ

2019 Jan 25 11:55:49
Johann: No problem Nyom, that was clear (word prediction...). Only moderator and admin can edit text in the shoutbox.

2019 Jan 25 11:04:42
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻ព្រះអង្គករុណាសរសេរអក្សរខុស ករុណារកកន្លែងលុបអក្សរដែលខុសមិនឃេីញទេ ។ ករុណាចង់សរសេរVandami Bhante មិនមែន vandalism Bhante ទេ។

2019 Jan 25 10:21:25
Chanroth:  _/\_ជំរាបបងស្រីវីឡា ហេតុអីបានជាលេខទូរសព្ទបងមិនបានសូម

2019 Jan 25 05:50:33
Cheav Villa: បងប៉ៈលើអក្សរដែរសរសេររួចនោះ វានឹងចេញ​  pen edit's icon/Delete

2019 Jan 25 05:33:21
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំុ vandalism Bhante. តេីព្រះសុខភាពព្រះអង្គយា៉ងណាហេីយ?

2019 Jan 25 04:04:48
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jan 25 02:01:40
Johann: "If you envision the Buddha as uttering nothing but sweetness and light, it may come as a shock to learn how thoroughly he ridiculed the Nigaṇṭhas over this belief."

2019 Jan 25 01:59:29
Johann: The Karma of Now: Why the Present Moment Isn’t the Goal : maybe that helps to gain upanissaya to the Buddhas real good teachings.

2019 Jan 25 01:49:43
Johann: much karuna

2019 Jan 24 16:44:54
Cheav Villa: ប៉ុន្តែ​គាត់ចូលចិត្តស្តាប់ធម៌ ព្រះអង្គ​ គូ​ សុភាព​ មុនចូលគេង _/\_

2019 Jan 24 16:20:28
Cheav Villa:  He isn't fine body and mind  _/\_

2019 Jan 24 16:02:39
Johann: Havn't seen Nyoms huband here since longer. Health and everything fine?

2019 Jan 24 15:29:16
Cheav Villa: Vaṇḍāni Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jan 24 15:11:50
Johann: Nyom Villa

2019 Jan 24 14:12:53
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2019 Jan 24 14:10:31
Johann: Schnelles genesen. Tnam Sach, hilft.

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Author Topic: How do Bodhisattva vow takers avoid stream entry?  (Read 1488 times)

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Offline Johann

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How do Bodhisattva vow takers avoid stream entry?
« on: September 30, 2017, 02:21:34 AM »



How do Bodhisattva vow takers avoid stream entry?

According to the suttas in SN13 , a stream enterer (or stream winner or sotapanna ) only has at most, seven remaining lifetimes, before they are permanently freed from suffering.

On the other hand, takers of the Mahayana Bodhisattva vow , would forego enlightenment for a very long time (apparently aeons), till they complete the full Bodhisattva training (which I presume is the development of paramitas and the attainment of bhumis ).

However, this implies that they need to avoid stream entry, which could cause them to become released from suffering in seven lifetimes at most.

So, how do they avoid stream entry? Do they avoid it by avoiding the practice of insight meditation (vipassana ) perhaps?

My person anwered there as following:

[Note: This is a gift of Dhamma, not meant for commercial purpose or other wordily gaining (possible not good for those desire for becoming a Buddha and not firm in it.]

Usually/practical by avoiding to listening the Dhamma of a Buddha and taking care of not gaining wisdom or right view. So avoiding the three Juwels as good as possible, if still present in the world.

Maybe some food for benefical thought: A Bodhisttva is a member of the Sangha?

Here in Cambodia, people who have not really taken refuge into the Juwels, so if speaking about people not explicit Dhammika, are called "Buddh(a)bodhisatt(a)".

Since the root of stream-entry is right view, this has to be avoided, if one wishes to become a Buddha. If such is possible, having been touched by the good Dhamma... who knows...

Of coures it might be, that seven lives as a certain devas lasts as long as a world period. Did not made more researches in this regard.

This might be also useful for those desiring becoming a Buddha: Bodhisatta Path Answers of questions

And a nice Bodhisatta-story: The Spiritual Partner

Sotapanna (stream-enter/wisdom throw hearing) is connected with the four Noble Truth. If, when a person heard the 4NT, understanding them, not mental cognitive defect, can than, later, take on Bodhisatta-vows and avoid stream entry: my person doubts. He/she will gain the path latest with death. So possible a wasted time with a lot of pain, struggle and suffering, if having heard and understood the Dhamma, to try to avoid entry afterwards.

Some say there is a point in the Vipassana-states, where one might have gained some good insight, and where one is able to decide. A hint on it is in the 'Question and Answer' link.

It might be therefore (for a desire of becoming a Buddha), good to take on the vows before hearing the Four Noble Truth and understanding them, e.g. not taking refuge into the current Buddha, his Dhamma, his Sangha.


My person just thought of what Upasaka Dmytro ( Admin ) would have to add or correct.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

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Re: How do Bodhisattva vow takers avoid stream entry?
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2018, 05:16:24 AM »
Okasa bhante and all,

I'll give you all some more data on this regard, so that you will be able to analyse.

Ven. Ananda Maitreya had said:
When he was meditating he could attain sankharupekkha vipassana nana in a short time compared to others but couldn't achieve any further development for a long time. So he had reported it to his teacher and the teacher had asked him whether he had any other hopes. After ven. Maitreya had replied "yes, to become a Buddha ", his teacher had said "if it is so, you can't advance any further".

Ven. Ariyadhamma and his teacher ven. Jinavamsa are said to be have the same experience. Ven. Ariyadhamma had said that only a rare person with exceptional energy can attain buddhahood. Once he had asked a question from a criticizer "if everyone refuse buddhahood then who will establish a buddha sasana? who will help others?"

Ven. Nanarama had said many bodhisattas can't achieve the goal and they will have to change the goal to become pacceka buddha or arahant.

Ven. Dhamajiva had said that the people who have kindness over wisdom tend to go in the bodhisatta path and the people who have wisdom over karuna tend to attain nibbana in this very life. He advises both type of people to develop their lacking quality in order to become balanced.

Some criticizers of bodhisatta path say that many people have decided to become bodhisattas because of the 'mana' (superiority complex) or failure to become successful in practice.

Once a leader temple monk criticized bodhisatta path saying it is an ignorant idea, but bhikkhu Nanananda had said that it is not good to shame bodhisattas.

Vandami.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 05:24:06 AM by gus »

Offline Johann

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Re: How do Bodhisattva vow takers avoid stream entry?
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2018, 02:42:18 PM »
A short anecdote:

Once my person left home/household under the gems as a wanderer, a beggar with not any society as refuge, after a day walk, burned feets (it's hard to cross the area around a city where just cars are used to move along till first shadow can be found), he come to a monastery.
It was "accidentally" one of the best "teaching young Bhikkhus monasteries".

The Ven. Abbot just cross-questioned his disciples as my person approached, willing to ask to spend some days to look after the feets and to repair and prepare the robes since they had been in bad conditions.

After having got a place to sit, some water to clean the feets, water, he continued to cross-question his well-versed disciples: "What do you think. Is it samma ditthi or miccha ditthi if one desires to become a Buddha?" They discussed, could not really agree, argued... Then he turned to my person. The answer was clear.

After explaining, after approve, the young monks, understanding it and no more doubt, they asked: "How is it, how can it be possible, that this person, having not nearly learned only a little like use, was able to answer the question (with certain amount of issa)."

He just said: "That's the different between practicing and learning."

Since one has strong desire, attachments toward home, toward world, a Bodhisatta is not able to leave home, having not left home, how could he ever see beyond, how could he ever gain right view and develop right view before he possible meets his last birth, having figured out that no refuge can be found in the many homes, worlds, what ever far or near.

This is why a good father would not advice his children to walk the same long burdenful path, let them make the same mistakes, but show them the direct way to that what he has archived. No Buddha, no Arahat, no good father would ever advice people to walk only a day an insecure and maybe wrong way, would never advice their children to do all to become a father one day, to walk following his many failings and hardships.

It's simply 'mana' or 'maya' (illusion following Mahayanas use of this world) that one desires to become this or that for this or that sake.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: How do Bodhisattva vow takers avoid stream entry?
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2018, 03:24:45 PM »
Going down into the dark, looking for the glas my person left outside, fellow Bhante actually already placed on it's proper place, someone came across to explain the whole issue again with his situation by picture, teaching Dhamma by pictures, to understand:

[img]
user:johann:gallery:archiv2018:20180930_05.jpg
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

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Re: How do Bodhisattva vow takers avoid stream entry?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2018, 11:39:22 PM »
Okasa,

As I remember, the Awakened One has said two things similar to the below.
 
  • "I don't praise the practice of more 'parahita' at the cost of 'attahita'."
  • "I don't praise waiting in 'bhava' at least for a moment."

Vandami.

Offline Johann

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Re: How do Bodhisattva vow takers avoid stream entry?
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2018, 08:05:26 AM »
Does Deva gus likes to explain word and meaning of 1. and. 2.?

Especialy the secound does look like that it needs aditional explaining. If standing alone out of context it's not only condraticion to his own teachings but leads to misunderstanding and extreme. It's that the statement of an accomplished person, and a-sekha? Jhana is a matter of Bhava, developing the path is bhava (developing, producing)... Or is a bhāva (being, stand) and bhava confusion of mine here?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 08:16:27 AM by Johann »
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Offline gus

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Re: How do Bodhisattva vow takers avoid stream entry?
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2018, 08:27:25 AM »
Okasa bhante,

Actually I don't remember the relevant suttas. As I remember,

1.The Buddha has discouraged dedicating for the welfare of others at the expense of one's own practice; Or discouraged hindering one's own practice in order to help others.
(in some other sutta: "atta-hita and neva-para-hita person" has been categorized as better than "neva-atta-hita and para-hita" person. )

2.The Buddha don't praise delaying  in samsara (as an non-arahant) at least for an instant. (I think this is an advise to be heedful)

Vandami.

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Re: How do Bodhisattva vow takers avoid stream entry?
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2018, 09:41:38 AM »
Sadhu!

To provide the certain suttas (parts of vinaya, and topics here) may require some time.

Probably most famous for not so literary understanding of 1. is "The Bamboo acrobat", Sedhaka Sutta, SN 47.19 if remembering right.
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Re: How do Bodhisattva vow takers avoid stream entry?
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2018, 07:54:35 PM »
"Bodhisatta" and the "not fearless" Ajahn Mun:

“The Dhamma of these latter-day sages will be a new, modern Dhamma whose attainment requires no troublesome investigations. All that's required to attain magga and phala is a chorus of moaning and groaning, a method suited to an age when people prefer to seek righteous results from unrighteous causes – a pernicious attitude consuming the whole world today. Before long there won't be enough room on the planet to hold all these modern-day sages. I myself have an old-fashioned mentality. I trust what the Lord Buddha taught and dare not take any shortcuts. I am afraid that, as soon as I put a foot forward, I would fall flat on my face – and die there in disgrace. That would be immensely heartbreaking for me.”
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Re: How do Bodhisattva vow takers avoid stream entry?
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2018, 12:47:41 AM »
Okasa bhante,
"Bodhisatta" and the "not fearless" Ajahn Mun:

“All that's required to attain magga and phala is a chorus of moaning and groaning, ..”

What does here "chorus of moaning and groaning means? What is it's relationship with modern sages? Is it a criticism of weak effort or something else?

Vandami.

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