*

Tipitaka Khmer

 Please feel welcome to join the transcription project of the Tipitaka translation in khmer, and share one of your favorite Sutta or more. Simply click here or visit the Forum: 

Plauderbox

 

Cheav Villa

Today at 12:16:28 PM
 _/\_
 

Johann

Today at 10:37:26 AM
moved all block to the left side so it might be more smooth to use and view.
 

Cheav Villa

December 14, 2018, 02:06:47 PM
_/\_  _/\_  _/\_
 

Johann

December 14, 2018, 01:54:10 PM
Better, yes. Lesser fibre, only soft malary attacks seemingly ending. Abscesses going to an end, flu nearly gone and some time walk outside, some
more strength, as well already. Best supported by those near and far, direct, indirect. Sadhu Nyom Villa, Nyom Sophorn.
 

Cheav Villa

December 14, 2018, 01:50:17 PM
Vandami Bhante _/\_
Tomorrow early morning
Vithou, His brotherinlaw and Kana's brother Virak they will leave at 5am to Aural wished to visit Bhante and offering some medecines_/\_
 

Cheav Villa

December 13, 2018, 01:39:00 PM
ព្រះអង្គបានធូរខ្លះហេីយ _/\_
 

Sophorn

December 11, 2018, 04:43:02 PM
 :-* :-* :-*
May Bhante recover fast again
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

December 10, 2018, 12:22:01 PM
...many.May Nyom Sokdina let it be known if he desires for an explaining of why modern ideas and demanding go not at all in conformity with the Buddhas Dhamma but are at large leading downwardly.
 

Johann

December 10, 2018, 12:06:17 PM
Thinking in therms of rights is grave wrong view, miccha ditthi. And there are times when voting is not usefull. Of cause people who go after such ideas simply search for relexation, fun and joy and will be not satisfied by the Dhamma, Nyom Sokdina. Don't follow fools and see the many goodness of ma
 

Kong Sokdina

December 10, 2018, 10:33:43 AM
ថ្វាយបង្គំព្រះអង្គ!
Human rigths!
Women rigths,
Children rights,
Democrecy;
We know the right to do. I use self-reflaction to our mind what are something in. The right way is a good way all wr wish. I have to g
ask you about the breath relaxation, meditatii
 

Cheav Villa

December 10, 2018, 09:43:12 AM
សូមព្រះអង្គបានសម្រាក និងឆាន់ថ្នាំ សូមព្រះអង្គឆាប់ធូរស្បេីយពីរោគា
_/\_
 

Johann

December 10, 2018, 09:12:24 AM
Krun Chan did the arriving appear faster and binds to rest. Everything fine, dhammata.
 

Sophorn

December 10, 2018, 07:03:39 AM
 :-* :-* :-* kana is good. Kana assumes Bhante arrived well at Thmor Touk again.
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

December 09, 2018, 02:16:13 PM
Upanissaya, Nyom Villa... "accidents"...
 

Cheav Villa

December 09, 2018, 02:08:10 PM
ថ្វាយបង្គំព្រះអង្គ _/\_
 :D កូណាស្មនត្រូវថាព្រះអង្គនឹងត្រឡប់ទៅដល់អាស្រមវិញនាល្ងាចថ្ងៃអាទិត្យនេះ _/\_
 

Khemakumara

December 09, 2018, 01:33:19 AM
Nyom Sophorn, everything is fine!  How is nyom?
 

Sophorn

December 08, 2018, 05:40:28 PM
 :-* :-* :-* vandami Bhante Khemakura, how is Bhante?
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Sophorn

December 08, 2018, 05:40:24 PM
 :-* :-* :-* vandami Bhante Khemakura, how is Bhante?
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Cheav Villa

December 07, 2018, 01:18:12 PM
Kana Preah Ang _/\_
 

Khemakumara

December 07, 2018, 01:10:24 PM
Nyom Cheav Villa
 

Cheav Villa

December 05, 2018, 02:54:44 PM
Kana thought Bhante Johann could have left Watt Ayum on Tuesday morning _/\_
 

Cheav Villa

December 05, 2018, 12:04:44 PM
ព្រះអង្គ​Inddanano _/\_
 

Kong Sokdina

December 04, 2018, 11:52:14 AM
Sadhu! Kana Prah Ang;
There are many ways to wash & clean the all minds, Preah konmchas; i had been taught by prf. from Spain with theory & practice as well since 2006-2009 and i also let my clients to do like whatever you have told me right now. For me at this time; it should use cognitive behavio
 

Khemakumara

December 03, 2018, 05:06:22 PM
Sadhu!  Möge es Nyom Roman und Nyom Moritz gut er-gehen!
 

Moritz

December 03, 2018, 05:03:40 PM
Ebenso _/\_
 

Roman

December 03, 2018, 04:58:02 PM
ich wünsche Allen einen friedevollen Abend!
 

Roman

December 03, 2018, 04:55:34 PM
Guten Abend Moritz und Bhante Khemakumara
 

Khemakumara

December 03, 2018, 04:54:47 PM
Nyom Moritz Nyom Roman
 

Moritz

December 03, 2018, 04:45:52 PM
Vandami, Bhante Indaññano and Bhante Khemakumara _/\_
 

Cheav Villa

December 03, 2018, 12:05:41 PM
Kana Prah Ang  :D _/\_
 

Khemakumara

December 03, 2018, 12:01:58 PM
Nyom Cheav Villa
 

Johann

December 03, 2018, 09:37:36 AM
Nyom Sokdina. It would be good if Nyom could participate on the up-coming Meditation week-end at Wat Akyum to clean the mind.
 

Kong Sokdina

December 03, 2018, 02:15:52 AM
Nyoms! Last night, a gouhter is affect by irritable cougbhing so it disurbance to sleep.
 

Kong Sokdina

December 03, 2018, 02:11:21 AM
Sadhu! Thanks!
It is just  tried to give up & burn out of bad spiritul inside. Your Wishes isi good for all.
 

Sophorn

December 02, 2018, 08:48:58 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
may you recover well and fast  :-* :-* :-*
 

Kong Sokdina

December 02, 2018, 02:18:46 AM
Respectfully
Today, my is ill with lower blood pressure & blurred sion. But she tries to see because she really praises excellent merit, moral & virtue. How do you think  , as humanbeing?
 

Cheav Villa

December 01, 2018, 12:29:08 PM
 :o ព្រះអង្គស្រេងអាចនឹងដំឡេីងកម្មវិធីទាំងអស់នោះវិញបាននៅពេលក្រោយ ព្រះអង្គ _/\_
 

Johann

December 01, 2018, 12:16:35 PM
Not easy, but Atma has now erased all facebook, messenger.. apps on Bhantes device. Maybe possible to prepar the old Sangha-laptop in proper ways for him.
 

Johann

December 01, 2018, 07:58:21 AM
If wishing, you could use the Pali-language forum, http://sangham.net/index.php/board,26.0.html for your lessons.
 

Cheav Villa

December 01, 2018, 06:57:19 AM
 :D _/\_
 

Johann

December 01, 2018, 06:48:05 AM
.. was written by Johann
 

Indaññāno

December 01, 2018, 06:45:34 AM
It's good to make everything that Huang's may not use messenger and things like Facebook! Of course there is support (given support) needed to do so. Don't pull monks into the worlds markets and ways.
 

Cheav Villa

December 01, 2018, 06:00:30 AM
Kuna Prah Ang  :D _/\_
 

Johann

December 01, 2018, 05:22:57 AM
Bhante is just taking his meal, Nyom.
 

Cheav Villa

December 01, 2018, 04:40:17 AM
ព្រះអង្គ ឥន្ទញាណោ _/\_
 

Sophorn

November 30, 2018, 11:20:52 AM
 :-* :-* :-* sadhu and mudita to hear so.
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Cheav Villa

November 30, 2018, 05:52:17 AM
Sadhu _/\_
 

Johann

November 30, 2018, 05:43:37 AM
Everything "fine", better Dhammata, Nyom. Atma met Nyom. His mind is attentive, he could listen and its up to his own further investigation, blessed, being bound to care only about his breath for the time left.
 

Cheav Villa

November 29, 2018, 02:05:44 PM
តេីសុខភាពពិបាកទ្រាំ ដែរទេព្រះអង្គ? និងលោកតាឧបាសក?
 

Cheav Villa

November 29, 2018, 02:01:01 PM
ថ្វាយបង្គំព្រះអង្គ  :D
_/\_

Show 50 latest

Search ATI on ZzE

Zugang zur Einsicht - Schriften aus der Theravada Tradition



Access to Insight / Zugang zur Einsicht: Dhamma-Suche auf mehr als 4000 Webseiten (deutsch / english) - ohne zu googeln, andere Ressourcen zu nehmen, weltliche Verpflichtungen einzugehen. Sie sind für den Zugang zur Einsicht herzlich eingeladen diese Möglichkeit zu nutzen. (Info)

Random Sutta
Random Article
Random Jataka

Zufälliges Sutta
Zufälliger Artikel
Zufälliges Jataka


Arbeits/Work Forum ZzE

"Dhammatalks.org":
[logo dhammatalks.org]
Random Talk
[pic 30]

Recent Topics

[Today at 03:21:07 PM]

[Today at 01:15:29 PM]

[Today at 01:07:44 PM]

[Today at 07:22:04 AM]

[Today at 06:20:37 AM]

[Today at 06:12:55 AM]

[Today at 01:39:07 AM]

[December 14, 2018, 02:42:03 AM]

[December 14, 2018, 02:19:42 AM]

[December 10, 2018, 09:15:34 AM]

[December 10, 2018, 09:10:51 AM]

[December 06, 2018, 06:31:25 AM]

[December 06, 2018, 05:29:03 AM]

[December 06, 2018, 05:26:19 AM]

[December 05, 2018, 12:18:52 PM]

[December 04, 2018, 05:37:07 AM]

[December 03, 2018, 04:34:01 PM]

[December 03, 2018, 03:59:03 PM]

[December 03, 2018, 01:39:20 PM]

[November 30, 2018, 11:19:21 AM]

[November 30, 2018, 05:57:17 AM]

[November 29, 2018, 02:58:30 PM]

[November 23, 2018, 05:39:15 PM]

[November 23, 2018, 01:26:50 PM]

Author Topic: How do Bodhisattva vow takers avoid stream entry?  (Read 1088 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +350/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
How do Bodhisattva vow takers avoid stream entry?
« on: September 30, 2017, 02:21:34 AM »



How do Bodhisattva vow takers avoid stream entry?

According to the suttas in SN13 , a stream enterer (or stream winner or sotapanna ) only has at most, seven remaining lifetimes, before they are permanently freed from suffering.

On the other hand, takers of the Mahayana Bodhisattva vow , would forego enlightenment for a very long time (apparently aeons), till they complete the full Bodhisattva training (which I presume is the development of paramitas and the attainment of bhumis ).

However, this implies that they need to avoid stream entry, which could cause them to become released from suffering in seven lifetimes at most.

So, how do they avoid stream entry? Do they avoid it by avoiding the practice of insight meditation (vipassana ) perhaps?

My person anwered there as following:

[Note: This is a gift of Dhamma, not meant for commercial purpose or other wordily gaining (possible not good for those desire for becoming a Buddha and not firm in it.]

Usually/practical by avoiding to listening the Dhamma of a Buddha and taking care of not gaining wisdom or right view. So avoiding the three Juwels as good as possible, if still present in the world.

Maybe some food for benefical thought: A Bodhisttva is a member of the Sangha?

Here in Cambodia, people who have not really taken refuge into the Juwels, so if speaking about people not explicit Dhammika, are called "Buddh(a)bodhisatt(a)".

Since the root of stream-entry is right view, this has to be avoided, if one wishes to become a Buddha. If such is possible, having been touched by the good Dhamma... who knows...

Of coures it might be, that seven lives as a certain devas lasts as long as a world period. Did not made more researches in this regard.

This might be also useful for those desiring becoming a Buddha: Bodhisatta Path Answers of questions

And a nice Bodhisatta-story: The Spiritual Partner

Sotapanna (stream-enter/wisdom throw hearing) is connected with the four Noble Truth. If, when a person heard the 4NT, understanding them, not mental cognitive defect, can than, later, take on Bodhisatta-vows and avoid stream entry: my person doubts. He/she will gain the path latest with death. So possible a wasted time with a lot of pain, struggle and suffering, if having heard and understood the Dhamma, to try to avoid entry afterwards.

Some say there is a point in the Vipassana-states, where one might have gained some good insight, and where one is able to decide. A hint on it is in the 'Question and Answer' link.

It might be therefore (for a desire of becoming a Buddha), good to take on the vows before hearing the Four Noble Truth and understanding them, e.g. not taking refuge into the current Buddha, his Dhamma, his Sangha.


My person just thought of what Upasaka Dmytro ( Admin ) would have to add or correct.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

  • Sanghamitta
  • Full Member / Vollmitglied
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +16/-0
Re: How do Bodhisattva vow takers avoid stream entry?
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2018, 05:16:24 AM »
Okasa bhante and all,

I'll give you all some more data on this regard, so that you will be able to analyse.

Ven. Ananda Maitreya had said:
When he was meditating he could attain sankharupekkha vipassana nana in a short time compared to others but couldn't achieve any further development for a long time. So he had reported it to his teacher and the teacher had asked him whether he had any other hopes. After ven. Maitreya had replied "yes, to become a Buddha ", his teacher had said "if it is so, you can't advance any further".

Ven. Ariyadhamma and his teacher ven. Jinavamsa are said to be have the same experience. Ven. Ariyadhamma had said that only a rare person with exceptional energy can attain buddhahood. Once he had asked a question from a criticizer "if everyone refuse buddhahood then who will establish a buddha sasana? who will help others?"

Ven. Nanarama had said many bodhisattas can't achieve the goal and they will have to change the goal to become pacceka buddha or arahant.

Ven. Dhamajiva had said that the people who have kindness over wisdom tend to go in the bodhisatta path and the people who have wisdom over karuna tend to attain nibbana in this very life. He advises both type of people to develop their lacking quality in order to become balanced.

Some criticizers of bodhisatta path say that many people have decided to become bodhisattas because of the 'mana' (superiority complex) or failure to become successful in practice.

Once a leader temple monk criticized bodhisatta path saying it is an ignorant idea, but bhikkhu Nanananda had said that it is not good to shame bodhisattas.

Vandami.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 05:24:06 AM by gus »

Offline Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +350/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Re: How do Bodhisattva vow takers avoid stream entry?
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2018, 02:42:18 PM »
A short anecdote:

Once my person left home/household under the gems as a wanderer, a beggar with not any society as refuge, after a day walk, burned feets (it's hard to cross the area around a city where just cars are used to move along till first shadow can be found), he come to a monastery.
It was "accidentally" one of the best "teaching young Bhikkhus monasteries".

The Ven. Abbot just cross-questioned his disciples as my person approached, willing to ask to spend some days to look after the feets and to repair and prepare the robes since they had been in bad conditions.

After having got a place to sit, some water to clean the feets, water, he continued to cross-question his well-versed disciples: "What do you think. Is it samma ditthi or miccha ditthi if one desires to become a Buddha?" They discussed, could not really agree, argued... Then he turned to my person. The answer was clear.

After explaining, after approve, the young monks, understanding it and no more doubt, they asked: "How is it, how can it be possible, that this person, having not nearly learned only a little like use, was able to answer the question (with certain amount of issa)."

He just said: "That's the different between practicing and learning."

Since one has strong desire, attachments toward home, toward world, a Bodhisatta is not able to leave home, having not left home, how could he ever see beyond, how could he ever gain right view and develop right view before he possible meets his last birth, having figured out that no refuge can be found in the many homes, worlds, what ever far or near.

This is why a good father would not advice his children to walk the same long burdenful path, let them make the same mistakes, but show them the direct way to that what he has archived. No Buddha, no Arahat, no good father would ever advice people to walk only a day an insecure and maybe wrong way, would never advice their children to do all to become a father one day, to walk following his many failings and hardships.

It's simply 'mana' or 'maya' (illusion following Mahayanas use of this world) that one desires to become this or that for this or that sake.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +350/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Re: How do Bodhisattva vow takers avoid stream entry?
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2018, 03:24:45 PM »
Going down into the dark, looking for the glas my person left outside, fellow Bhante actually already placed on it's proper place, someone came across to explain the whole issue again with his situation by picture, teaching Dhamma by pictures, to understand:

[img]
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

  • Sanghamitta
  • Full Member / Vollmitglied
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +16/-0
Re: How do Bodhisattva vow takers avoid stream entry?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2018, 11:39:22 PM »
Okasa,

As I remember, the Awakened One has said two things similar to the below.
 
  • "I don't praise the practice of more 'parahita' at the cost of 'attahita'."
  • "I don't praise waiting in 'bhava' at least for a moment."

Vandami.

Offline Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +350/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Re: How do Bodhisattva vow takers avoid stream entry?
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2018, 08:05:26 AM »
Does Deva gus likes to explain word and meaning of 1. and. 2.?

Especialy the secound does look like that it needs aditional explaining. If standing alone out of context it's not only condraticion to his own teachings but leads to misunderstanding and extreme. It's that the statement of an accomplished person, and a-sekha? Jhana is a matter of Bhava, developing the path is bhava (developing, producing)... Or is a bhāva (being, stand) and bhava confusion of mine here?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 08:16:27 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

  • Sanghamitta
  • Full Member / Vollmitglied
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +16/-0
Re: How do Bodhisattva vow takers avoid stream entry?
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2018, 08:27:25 AM »
Okasa bhante,

Actually I don't remember the relevant suttas. As I remember,

1.The Buddha has discouraged dedicating for the welfare of others at the expense of one's own practice; Or discouraged hindering one's own practice in order to help others.
(in some other sutta: "atta-hita and neva-para-hita person" has been categorized as better than "neva-atta-hita and para-hita" person. )

2.The Buddha don't praise delaying  in samsara (as an non-arahant) at least for an instant. (I think this is an advise to be heedful)

Vandami.

Offline Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +350/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Re: How do Bodhisattva vow takers avoid stream entry?
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2018, 09:41:38 AM »
Sadhu!

To provide the certain suttas (parts of vinaya, and topics here) may require some time.

Probably most famous for not so literary understanding of 1. is "The Bamboo acrobat", Sedhaka Sutta, SN 47.19 if remembering right.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +350/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Re: How do Bodhisattva vow takers avoid stream entry?
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2018, 07:54:35 PM »
"Bodhisatta" and the "not fearless" Ajahn Mun:

“The Dhamma of these latter-day sages will be a new, modern Dhamma whose attainment requires no troublesome investigations. All that's required to attain magga and phala is a chorus of moaning and groaning, a method suited to an age when people prefer to seek righteous results from unrighteous causes – a pernicious attitude consuming the whole world today. Before long there won't be enough room on the planet to hold all these modern-day sages. I myself have an old-fashioned mentality. I trust what the Lord Buddha taught and dare not take any shortcuts. I am afraid that, as soon as I put a foot forward, I would fall flat on my face – and die there in disgrace. That would be immensely heartbreaking for me.”
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

  • Sanghamitta
  • Full Member / Vollmitglied
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +16/-0
Re: How do Bodhisattva vow takers avoid stream entry?
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2018, 12:47:41 AM »
Okasa bhante,
"Bodhisatta" and the "not fearless" Ajahn Mun:

“All that's required to attain magga and phala is a chorus of moaning and groaning, ..”

What does here "chorus of moaning and groaning means? What is it's relationship with modern sages? Is it a criticism of weak effort or something else?

Vandami.

Tags: