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[Buddha]

Author Topic: [Q&A] What is the meaning of Anicca and Anatta?  (Read 265 times)

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Offline Johann

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[Q&A] What is the meaning of Anicca and Anatta?
« on: October 01, 2017, 05:39:09 PM »
What is the meaning of Anicca and Anatta?

Quote from: by Upasaka Sarath
Most[1] of the English translation I read, Anatta is translated as not-self and Anicca as impermanence. However many Sri Lankan Buddhist monks do not agree with this translation. They say it is a miss translation by Buddhagosha. According to many Buddhist monks, it appears, Anicca means our inability to control the five aggregate. Anatta means the futile nature of the five aggregate. Is this true?
 1. actually only some, see discussion there

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

 _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community _/\_ , my person tries to answer this question. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,

 *sgift*

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

(This is a maybe modified and expanded answer of the "original" that can be found here . )

Nyom Sarath, and those with interest,

At(t)ma(n)-peap (atta-paññatti, my person, "I-ness", usually, polite and modest 3rd person adressing of oneself when speaking with householder as pabbajita "one gone forth", here where he dwells) followed the hard leaded discussion on many places of Dhamma-discussion a little, which was merely very un-welcome to many and sometimes "brutal" and ignorant approached, from my persons view, especially in scholar-spheres and where practicing is merely secondary matter, even unwished to be discussed.

Coming to this question, not as a linguistic scholar and also not as a script scholar, but from a practical use, also of language and of it's sense, in relation to the practice and aim.

Here in Cambodia, which maybe has the longest unbroken "oral only"-tradition, with less exchange to organised communities elsewhere and seemingly long unbroken lineage without much scholars, in a more modern way, and scripts very young, many pali and sanskrit words are living part of the countries language in daily use, and also general translations into Khmer (khema = land or person at peace) language are mostly often different to modern translation in living languages.

The word atthanay,for example, as part of common language, adjectivly used, means simply "makes no sense", "has nothing to hold on". Anicca is translated as min-deang or *min-dang (khmer), which means, not-knowable, not to see, not control-able, not in the sphere of control or foreseeable.

That would, independently of this "old" Sri Lankan approach, Sarath quoted,
 
Anicca means our inability to control the five aggregate. Anatta means the futile nature of the five aggregate.


fit well with each other. Practical in living language and meaning, as well practical in relation of the path, for the aim to get ride of suffering/stress, rather to find such as an "I" or destroy it.

At the heart - the sense stays actually (like also particly mentikned by Beginner her) the same with the usual words - it would, for a good and in line of the general context of the Dhamma, and ways conductive for the path, just fit better than use the modern/popular words, since speculations about, if there is a self or not, needs to be avoided, and are root causes of suffering (e.g. papanca).

But maybe the "problem", causing disputes, lies merely there, that the issue of at least emptiness, usually have not been taught to the untrained person (mind), and that people not free of sakkaya-ditthi, one of the lower fetter, self-view, self-believe, has simply a hard to work without self or not-self, therefore prever the use of one or another extreme and bend it here and there that it does not possible seem like eternal- or nihilism, but still is.

How ever, to cut away a "dangerous" assuming that some might draw from it: that would not mean that Nibbana is self - making a dopple-chance in a thought line - it just would mean that Nibbana makes sense (attha), aside of all other phenomenas which do not (anattha), and it is no more not in the sphere of insecurity, niccha, secure. For whom or what, is no question in this sphere, cut off, made an end.

How ever, my person never come across a saying of "nibbana atta, nibbana niccaṃ" quoting the Buddha, ditectly. Maybe out of good reason as well, such was not said, since Nibbana is not an antidote to Samsara, but "simply" beyond.

But this "tiny" distinction fits also well into the "not-modern" translation, suggested here:

 
Quote from: anattā

While in the case of the first two characteristics it is stated that all formations (sabbe sankhārā) are impermanent and subject to suffering, the corresponding text for the third characteristic states that "all things are not-self" (sabbe dhammā anattā; M. 35, Dhp. 279).

Hence: Nibbana "just" nicca: secure: might be possible valid to express, taken that sabbe dhammā anattā incl. Nibbana (for security to be not mistaken as "the Self")

So the answer here will again either stay food for not conductive thoughts for the path either, or possible lead even more "just" to practice and see (dang km) for "oneself" (kluan eing km).

May all able to, gain the best out of it and reach the stream till highest fruit.

This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Johann

June 21, 2018, 01:52:05 AM
Sadhu!
 

Sophorn

June 20, 2018, 08:42:25 PM
Möge es ein verdienstvoller Uposatha für alle sein!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Marcel

June 19, 2018, 07:41:34 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
Bhante Johann, ich habe die Daten für mein sangham email nicht!! Ich bitte Sie mir diese, aus Mitgefühl, zukommen zu lassen. :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 07:09:43 AM
Hat Nyom Marcel, Khemakumara, noch PW für seine sangham email? Wenn nicht vergibt Atma neues und sendet es an die Adressen wie zuvor.
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 07:00:27 AM
_/\_ Okasa Bhante, if Bhante likes to give a teaching in regard of Vandami, out of compassion, his merits would be joyful received.
 

Indaññāno

June 19, 2018, 06:55:59 AM
សង្ឃ
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 06:40:35 AM
_/\_ Bhante Indannano _/\_
 

Marcel

June 19, 2018, 02:48:19 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
Bhante Johann, i will let you all khnow when the final going forth has been requested :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 02:39:20 AM
If Bhante has lost account and email settings, let it be known, that my person sends it to marcel@sangham.net
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 02:37:20 AM
Let all know when the final going forth has been simply requested, simply received, to be able to rejoice with it.
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 02:33:42 AM
Let all know when the final going forth has been simply requested, simply received, to be able to rejoice with it.
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 02:31:03 AM
Nyom Marcel
 

Johann

June 17, 2018, 07:18:53 PM
Bestes Gelingen und Freude dabei.
 

Moritz

June 17, 2018, 05:19:19 PM
Ich verabschiede mich für heut, muss andere Arbeit tun. Einen schönen Sonntag.
_/\_
 

Johann

June 17, 2018, 02:30:10 PM
Mudita
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 02:19:16 PM
 :-* :-* :-* die Übung ist besser als im "alten haus"  Zuversicht, geduld und Respekt über den drei juwelen ist da!!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 02:19:05 PM
 :-* :-* :-* die Übung ist besser als im "alten haus"  Zuversicht, geduld und Respekt über den drei juwelen ist da!!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 02:19:02 PM
 :-* :-* :-* die Übung ist besser als im "alten haus"  Zuversicht, geduld und Respekt über den drei juwelen ist da!!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

June 17, 2018, 01:53:53 PM
Wie immer recht, Nyom. Wie stets mit der Übung und allem neu und unperfekt?
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 01:42:40 PM
 :-*  :-* :-* anumodana :-* :-* :-*
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 01:40:03 PM
 :-* :-* :-*

Der ehrwürdige bhante besitzt noch den pc ! Bhante idananno ist für 2 Tage nach phnom phen. Wenn bhante wieder. Da ist, werde ich ihn  fragen und mich darum kümmern dass bhante  einen Zugang zum onlinekloster bekommt!  :-* :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

June 17, 2018, 01:26:26 PM
Hat Bhante noch den alten PC und das USB modem? Wenn Nyom, nach fragen, seine Sim da reintut, kann er damit sangham.net erreichen. Atma Tel. Nr. 012 345 025 wenn Nyom etwas benötigt.
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 01:23:38 PM
Entwürdiger bhante Johann, alles fein hier! Ich kann nun, über mein altes Handy, auf das online-Kloster zugreifen!
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 01:22:11 PM
Entwürdiger bhante Johann, alles fein hier! Ich kann nun, über mein altes Handy, auf das online-Kloster zugreifen!
 

Johann

June 17, 2018, 01:15:07 PM
Nyom? Marcel? Alles fein?
 

Johann

June 17, 2018, 01:14:25 PM
Atma kann nicht slowenisch, nur etwas Windisch/Kärntnerisch.

Soviele Raunzwörter... nie über Segensausdrücke gestolpert.

Sokh chomreoun, Nyom.
 

Moritz

June 17, 2018, 10:15:01 AM
Pozdravljeni, Guest!
 

Johann

June 16, 2018, 04:39:12 PM
Sadhu, may Nyom nourish on and rejoice with the merits done and gain pleasant and insightful dwellings of access.
 

Moritz

June 16, 2018, 04:32:09 PM
Chom reap lea.
May Bhante have a good day.
_/\_
 

Johann

June 16, 2018, 09:51:31 AM
Sokh chomreoun Nyom.

(May sukha (happiness) grow to its perfection, "previous father/relative")
 

Moritz

June 16, 2018, 09:38:06 AM
Vandami, Bhante.
Ich bin erst mal weg hier.
_/\_
 

Johann

June 12, 2018, 10:15:27 AM
Mag man sich, mag sich jeder, der Erinnerung an den Neumonduposatha, für geschicktes nutzen.

May everyone takes the New-moon Uposatha as a reminder for acting skilfully
 

Johann

June 06, 2018, 07:21:10 PM
Sadhu!
 

Sophorn

June 06, 2018, 03:02:27 AM
Einen verdienstvollen Uposatha heute  :-*
 

Johann

May 29, 2018, 06:44:12 PM
So der Tag mit Sonnenaufgang beginnt, ist selbt in Asien noch viel Gelegenheit dazu.
 

Sophorn

May 29, 2018, 05:53:50 PM
Möge heute ein verdienstvoller Tag gewesen sein!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 29, 2018, 11:57:01 AM
Sadhu!
 

Marcel

May 29, 2018, 11:37:19 AM
 :-* :-* :-*

mögen sie alle ein verdienstvollen uposatha haben!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 22, 2018, 10:11:37 AM
Sadhu!
 

Marcel

May 22, 2018, 09:37:30 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
einen verdienstvollen uposatha wünsche ich allen  :-* :-* :-*
 

Marcel

May 19, 2018, 03:07:57 PM
 :-* :-* :-*

ehrwürdiger bhante

 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 19, 2018, 03:05:38 PM
Nyom Marcel.
 

Johann

May 14, 2018, 01:24:42 PM
Sadhu!
 

Marcel

May 14, 2018, 01:23:37 PM
 :-* :-* :-*
allen ein verdienstvollen uposatha

 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 14, 2018, 08:34:09 AM
Schüsse von Wilderern am Tag sind ja nicht ungewöhnlich, doch aus mehreren Richtungen und automatischen Waffen doch bisher hier nicht üblich gewesen. Möge niemand anderen Schaden zufügen und sich mit Abstehen davon jeder beschützen.
 

Johann

May 14, 2018, 01:06:38 AM
It's not an accident that you came here and it will be not an accident whether one stays, comes back or leaves for another becoming or goes beyond.
 

Johann

May 13, 2018, 06:51:53 AM
Mag da keiner seine Mutter an dem Tag vergessen zu ehren.
 

Johann

May 11, 2018, 02:11:37 PM
Nyom Marcel.

Schlangentag und -nacht heute. Wem mag man was vergönnen? Der Schlange? Den Mäusen? Metta & Samvega oder umgekehrt? Mal angstlos Hunger, mal Angst, mal Maus, mal Schlange, essen, gegessen, verfolgen, gejagt...
 

Marcel

May 11, 2018, 11:57:36 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
ehrwürdiger bhante
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 10, 2018, 04:00:02 PM
Nyom Marcel.

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