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Author Topic: Translation of the Mahavaga (by Ven. Khematto) - Übersetzung des Mahavaggas  (Read 869 times)

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Offline Johann

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 _/\_

Ven. Sirs, Ven. Bhante Khematto,
Aramikas, Aramikinis of monasteries and their outlets, Upasaka, Upasika,

my person, currently translating the generously given translation of the Mahavagga into German, while doing so, tries also to locate possible "errors" within the gift. Since forward might be not sure, depends on the goodness and Nissaya of many, here public, so that the Ven. Sir or those thaking care of this Sangha property, might be informed and given.

 *sgift*

May it be forwarded, received, compassionated received, for the benefit of many supporters and givers, and those to come.

May updates, additions... be understood in this manner as well, without limit of time and kind of delivery.

(Most current backup attached when following link: will be replaced from time to time)



Daily (if changed) updated drafts:



"Glossary": (05.12.2017)

transaction [Behandlung] Abhandlung

authorize gewähren

dwelling Unterkunft

storehouse Lagerhaus

motion Antrag

offense Vergehen

assembly Zusammenkunft

declaration Kundmachung

obstruction Hindernis

wrong doing Fehltun (dukkaṭassa)

authorize bestimmen (āpatti)

affiliation Zugehörigkeit [Organschaft] (ekuposathaṁ)

rehabilitated wiederhergestellt

united vereint

revoked widerrufen

announced bekannt machen

fractional parteilich

united geeint

charged belastet

perform durchführen

Convey überbringt

disrobe entbinden (vibbhamati)

suspend aussetzen

amend eingestehen

consent Zustimmung

seven-day business Siebentageunternehmung

preceptor Einweiser

staple food Hauptspeise

non-staple food Nebenspeise

steward Helfer

attendant Begleiter

proclamation Kundmachung

candidate Anwärter

support Grundlage (nissaya)

rag-robe weggeworfene Roben (Paṁsukūlacīvaraṁ)

reprimand Zurechtweisung

repudiated abgewiesen

prohibition Untersagung (āvaraṇaṁ)

expell verteiben

procedure Vorgehensweise

savaka Schüler

disciple Geselle (saddhivihāriko)



* Johann : Updated 02.03, 16.01., 11.01.2018, Updated 16.12.2017, updated 5.12.2017, backup 27.11. replaced
8.12.2017 Files can now be found on ZzE directly
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 07:42:41 AM by Johann »
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Offline Johann

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Mv II (No. = line in the html file)

- 468 na bhikkhave yathāparisāya pātimokkhaṁ uddisitabbaṁ sakāya sakāya parisāya yo uddiseyya āpatti dukkaṭassa.

Dukkata statement missing in translation.

- 818 sammatā sā sīmā saṅghena ticīvarena avippavāso

Sangha is missing in translation.

- 871 sammatā sā sīmā saṅghena ticīvarena avippavāso ṭhapetvā gāmañca gāmūpacārañca.

Sangha is missing in translation.

- athakho tesaṁ bhikkhūnaṁ etadahosi

one time translated "those monks" mostly "them"

- 1429, 1462 sopi evamāha na me bhante vattatīti.

here transl. as "I can't"

- 1822 and later: ...paṭijānāti lohituppādako paṭijānāti ubhatobyañjanako paṭijānāti aññassa dātabbā pārisuddhi.

sometimes "be, to be", sometimes "admits" which is a importand distinction

- 1886, 1813 :saṅghena tattha gantvā kammaṁ kātabbaṁ

“The transaction is to be carried out when the Saṅgha has gone there [i.e., to where the sick monk is].

then 1813: saṅghena tattha gantvā kammaṁ kātabbaṁ
here: should go, perform

- Uposatha, kammaṁ = Uposatha, transaction: sometimes Uposata is translated as Uposatha-Transaction, which might confuse.

- 1949 evañcetaṁ labhetha iccetaṁ kusalaṁ no ce labhetha te ñātakā bhikkhūhi evamassu vacanīyā iṅgha tumhe āyasmanto imaṁ bhikkhuṁ muhuttaṁ nissīmaṁ netha yāva saṅgho uposathaṁ karotīti.

and 1952 evañcetaṁ labhetha iccetaṁ kusalaṁ no ce labhetha na tveva vaggena saṅghena uposatho kātabbo kareyya ce āpatti dukkaṭassa.

seems to contoversal, following the translation, since if brought out of the territory, would a performed Uposatha not factional? Or, if translation is not unclear, should it be understood, that either when lay people are present or they removed him, but just if they let go out of then reason and leave, the Uposatha can be performed.

Here "again" transaction with Uposatha mixed, changed.

- 1943 te ñātakā bhikkhūhi evamassu vacanīyā iṅgha tumhe āyasmanto imaṁ bhikkhuṁ muhuttaṁ muñcatha yāvāyaṁ bhikkhu uposathaṁ karotīti.

It seems unseemingly that the Bhikkhus would adress the Bhikkhu by "your relative", rather then like elsewhere "this Bhikkhu"

* Johann : updated 5.12.2017
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 07:51:31 AM by Johann »
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Mv I (No. = line in the html file)

Mv I

1524 Typo: Then Yasa looked up at the the Blessed One.

2000 "If it’s not a burden for you, we would stay one night in your fire-hall." "we" seems not to fit to the context and occation.

General: Samana: sometimes, like in Sakyan-son Samanas, as Monks translated, most as contemplatives.

General: dhammavinaye is sometimes with Dhamma-Vinaya, sometimes with Dhamma and conduct translated. A translation Teaching/doctrine and conduct might be an alternativ if such is wished.

3751: "Then he should rub the water off the preceptor, give him his lower robe, and give him his outer robe.", outer Robe (dobble layer) seems to be unseeming, maybe "the robes" using "saṅghāṭik, as previous mentioned, in the case where robes are put together, is meant here as well.

3557: "Having dried the sitting cloth and sheet in the sun, he should clean them, shake them out, bring them back in, and lay them out them as they were laid out (before).", here it seems that singular is mixed with plural. Also, some similar passages sometimes include the sun in drying, here also "sheeting", som just have "dried".

3969: "Without having taken the preceptor’s leave, (the student) should not give an alms bowl to anyone, nor should he receive an alms bowl from that person.", is it sure that bowl not simply Almsfood is meant by "patta" here? Of corse it (almsfood) might be covered by "parikkhāro", later, and would bring the bowl into addition, or.... reading http://dsalsrv02.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/getobject.pl?c.2:1:1825.pali , "parikkhāro" seems to cover mainly the longer lasting requirement, not food or medicine, while if seeing "patto" as given, it would then cover food and medicine as well, which makes sense then.

4021: Typos: "Ne shouldn’t go anywhere." He...

4044: "If the preceptor has a bowl (left?) and the student doesn’t, the preceptor should give the student the bowl or make an effort, (thinking,) ‘How can my student get a bowl?’": "the bowl", "a bowl seems to fit the case better. One would ask which? His (only)? oh... commentaryseems to make it clear.

4094: "cīvaraṁ saṁharitabbaṁ cīvaraṁ saṁharantena caturaṅgulaṁ kaṇṇaṁ ussādetvā cīvaraṁ saṁharitabbaṁ mā majjhe bhaṅgo ahosīti
He should fold up the robes {SC: separately}, keeping the edges four fingerbreadths apart so that neither robe becomes creased in the middle"
Anders übersetzt als im Schülerpflichenabschnitt (3629)

4567: This So-and-so is venerable So-and-sois venerable So-and-so’s candidate for Acceptance.

Seems to be a typosly repeating.

4576: may the (??) listen to me. This So-and-so is venerable So-and-so’s candidate for Acceptance.

"Sangha" seems to be missing.

4636: Why did "you you" give me the Acceptance unrequested?

Typos

5167: Taking out the spittoon, he should it them to one side.

seems to be a copy paste mistake

5301: If the teacher’s robe should be washed, the pupil should wash it or make an effort, (thinking,) ‘How can my teacher’s robe be washed?’or should he receive an alms bowl from that p

copy paste mistake?

4397: na bhikkhave paṇāmitena na khamāpetabbo yo na khamāpeyya āpatti dukkaṭassāti.

it seems that it misses a part of translation.

5782: Vigarahitvā dhammiṁ kathaṁ katvā bhikkhū āmantesi

plural?

5863: He himself is not endowed with the aggregate of concentration of one beyond training, nor does he get others to undertake the aggregate of virtue of one beyond training.

secound should be concentration as well, not virtue, or? The same for the next 5 qualities.

6714: as he did the Aṅgulimāla of the aṅgulimālattheragāthā.

a word seems to be missing "with/for..."

7752: Having been chased away by the monks, he went to the elephant-trainers and horse-trainers and said to them, “Come, friends, commit sodomy with me.

ther should be Novizes (Samanera) instead of Monks (Bhikkhus)

7956+7997: Ven, Upāli reported the matter to the monks.

There is a comma instead of a dot.

8888: Wenn die Saṅgha bereit ist, I will ask So-and-so about <span style="letter-spacing: normal">the obstructing factors.’

a forgoten span-tag

9025: the Going-forth, went off and left him alone

it should be "acceptance", or?

9224: Tassuddānaṁ

different translatet then in MV 2

1548: adhivāsetu me bhante bhagavā ajjatanāya bhattaṁ yasena kulaputtena pacchāsamaṇenāti.

Yasa was no Bhikkhu (trans. as monk) at that time, but Samana, Contemplative (one having gone fort), or?

8615: "Ven. Ānanda said, “I don’t dare to use the elder’s name. I have respect for the elder."

It seems reasonable that "I dare to use the elder’s name." is proper, not only out of context but also that it is till today very impolite to adress especial inferiors by name.

* Johann : update 25. Feb. 2018, update 16. Jan., 11.Jan. 2018, 12. Jan.



Again progressed here with MV I , Atma thought, since most a soon topic, maybe Nyom Marcel likes to go through and if so inspired, count possible translation and other mistakes.

Draft is done till "Pflichten gegenüber Lehrling" and this chapter might be finished the next days.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 12:59:40 PM by Johann »
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Offline Johann

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 *sgift*
Draft/Entwurf: I. Mahākhandhako: Großer-Khandhaka  , 1st draft is finished and open for prove read.
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*sgift*

Draft/Entwurf: III. Vassūpanāyikakkhandhako: Antritt-der-Regenzeit-Khandhaka , 1st draft is finished and open for prove read.

Errors MV III:

MV III

327: The Allowance for Seven-say Business

typos: day

1156: this is evidenve that

typos, a remark: people, like even today in Cambodia, do not know the year (years generally are unknown, counted by zodiac) of birth but only the zodiac they are born under where there is an anicent counting system one needs to be skilled in: see http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,443.0.html
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Johann

May 22, 2018, 10:11:37 AM
Sadhu!
 

Marcel

May 22, 2018, 09:37:30 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
einen verdienstvollen uposatha wünsche ich allen  :-* :-* :-*
 

Marcel

May 19, 2018, 03:07:57 PM
 :-* :-* :-*

ehrwürdiger bhante

 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 19, 2018, 03:05:38 PM
Nyom Marcel.
 

Johann

May 14, 2018, 01:24:42 PM
Sadhu!
 

Marcel

May 14, 2018, 01:23:37 PM
 :-* :-* :-*
allen ein verdienstvollen uposatha

 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 14, 2018, 08:34:09 AM
Schüsse von Wilderern am Tag sind ja nicht ungewöhnlich, doch aus mehreren Richtungen und automatischen Waffen doch bisher hier nicht üblich gewesen. Möge niemand anderen Schaden zufügen und sich mit Abstehen davon jeder beschützen.
 

Johann

May 14, 2018, 01:06:38 AM
It's not an accident that you came here and it will be not an accident whether one stays, comes back or leaves for another becoming or goes beyond.
 

Johann

May 13, 2018, 06:51:53 AM
Mag da keiner seine Mutter an dem Tag vergessen zu ehren.
 

Johann

May 11, 2018, 02:11:37 PM
Nyom Marcel.

Schlangentag und -nacht heute. Wem mag man was vergönnen? Der Schlange? Den Mäusen? Metta & Samvega oder umgekehrt? Mal angstlos Hunger, mal Angst, mal Maus, mal Schlange, essen, gegessen, verfolgen, gejagt...
 

Marcel

May 11, 2018, 11:57:36 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
ehrwürdiger bhante
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 10, 2018, 04:00:02 PM
Nyom Marcel.
 

Marcel

May 09, 2018, 03:08:42 PM
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 09, 2018, 07:01:42 AM
Nyom Matthew.
 

Johann

May 06, 2018, 11:49:06 PM
Chamreoun bo, Moritz
 

Moritz

May 06, 2018, 05:12:29 AM
Vandami Bhante _/\_
Einen angenehmen Tag. _/\_
 

Johann

May 04, 2018, 12:18:14 PM
...And what is lack of food for the arising of unarisen sloth & drowsiness, or for the growth & increase of sloth & drowsiness once it has arisen? There is the potential for effort, the potential for exertion, the potential for striving. To foster appropriate attention to them: This is lack
 

Johann

May 04, 2018, 12:14:44 PM
...“Und was ist das Fehlen von Nahrung für unaufgekommene Faulheit und Trägheit, oder für das Wachsen und Mehren von Faulheit unf Trägheit, wenn einmal aufgekommen? Da ist das Vermögen für Anstrengung, das Vermögen für Ausübung, das Vermögen für Streben. Dafür passende Aufmerk
 

Sophorn

April 30, 2018, 02:59:48 AM
Sadhu.  :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

April 30, 2018, 01:04:45 AM
Ein hingabevolles Visakha-Fest, allen die es heute begehen, oder nochmal.


A devoted Visakha-fest for all who conduct it today, or again.[/en]
 

Johann

April 29, 2018, 08:42:23 AM
Sadhu!
 

Sophorn

April 29, 2018, 05:54:57 AM
Viel Segen und Einsicht heute an Vesakh Bochea!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

April 29, 2018, 02:08:23 AM
Heute oder morgen gedenkt und erfreut man sich an Buddhas Geburt, Erwachen und letztes Dahinscheinden.

_/\_

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -
 

Marcel

April 28, 2018, 02:58:36 PM
 :-* Ehrwürdiger Bhante  :-*
 

Johann

April 28, 2018, 02:55:18 PM
Nyom Marcel.
 

Johann

April 28, 2018, 12:44:32 PM
Geizhals :) (und nach dem Dhamma gegeben, wird so und so nichts angenommen.

Sadhu! Und mudita!

Nyom Moritz.

Visitor

April 28, 2018, 10:27:19 AM
Möge es euch allen gut gehen! Danke für Alles. Ich bin für ewig verschuldet. Komme zurück wenn ich was zu geben habe.
 

Moritz

April 28, 2018, 07:48:45 AM
Vandami, Bhante _/\_
 

Marcel

April 25, 2018, 02:20:08 PM
 :-* sadhu, möge es dem ehrwürdigen bhante johann schnell wieder bessergehen :-*
 

Johann

April 25, 2018, 02:09:45 PM
Körper. Besser, Atma würde vor einigen Tagen mit medizin versorgt und be-iniziert. Ein paar Tage noch bis NW der Med. wohl weg ist.
 

Marcel

April 25, 2018, 02:02:51 PM
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

April 25, 2018, 02:00:11 PM
Atma ist/übt am Samma-vayamieren/-mimieren. Fegen, sozusagen.
 

Marcel

April 25, 2018, 01:58:03 PM
 :-* anumodana ehrwürdiger bhante johann ich werder darauf achten :-* wie geht es ihnen mit der malaria-erkankung?  :-*
 

Johann

April 25, 2018, 01:52:35 PM
Na gerade auf guten Zuständen SOLLTE man, zum Zwecke der wahren Sicherheit aufbauen, sie entwickeln und festigen, Nyom Marcel.
 

Marcel

April 25, 2018, 01:37:13 PM
 :-* "im moment" geht es mir gut! aber da kann ich wirklich nicht drauf bauen :-* wie ist das wohlbefinden des ehrwürdigen bhante Johann?  :-*
 

Johann

April 25, 2018, 01:25:09 PM
Wie geht es Nyom Marcel?
 

Marcel

April 25, 2018, 01:12:57 PM
 :-* ehrwürdiger bhante johann  :-*
 

Johann

April 25, 2018, 01:11:36 PM
Nyom Marcel
 

Johann

April 22, 2018, 09:11:17 AM
Sadhu!
 

Sophorn

April 22, 2018, 08:40:14 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
May every being be happy and free from dukkha.
May many renew their vows in silas today.   :-* :-* :-*
 

Danilo

April 15, 2018, 12:43:25 AM
Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

April 15, 2018, 12:38:56 AM
Nyom Danilo.
 

Johann

April 12, 2018, 10:05:15 AM
Moritz
 

Moritz

April 12, 2018, 08:34:11 AM
Namasakara, Bhante. _/\_
 

Moritz

April 10, 2018, 07:19:18 PM
Hello.
 

Johann

April 10, 2018, 01:09:20 PM
Nyom. (Sideboad ist stets zugeklappt... tech. Probl.) 3:00 ist auch schon guten Tag.
 

Moritz

April 10, 2018, 03:06:49 AM
Good day (night here)
_/\_
 

Moritz

April 10, 2018, 02:54:42 AM
Namasakara, Bhante. _/\_
 

Johann

April 09, 2018, 09:43:17 AM
Take your time Nyom Danilo and watch the breath to stay best calm for best benefit. A lot of chances to get ride of many ols burdens.
 

Danilo

April 08, 2018, 06:24:57 PM
_/\_

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