[Q&A] How handle being "Haunted" by spirits and others, while on retreat?
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Author Topic: [Q&A] How handle being "Haunted" by spirits and others, while on retreat?  (Read 355 times)

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Offline Johann

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Meditation Retreat Question - How handle being "Haunted" by spirits and others, while on retreat?

Quote from: Soham on BSE
Meditation Retreat Question

I have been following your (yuttadhammo) videos for some time. I had a question that I wanted to ask to someone who is experienced and familiar with meditation and Buddhism. I went to a 60 day meditation retreat in Myanmar last year. I had a great experience there and so as a result I am planning to go back again for 4 months at the end of this year. I have had some experiences during my last trip which puzzled and scared me a bit. I was disturbed on a couple of occasions by beings from other world at night. These were scary experiences that scared me to the core during the retreat. It was difficult for me to meditate and to fall asleep at night as my mind would always stay in that defense mode where it wouldn't relax and fall asleep. I talked to the teachers about it and they said to practice metta meditation and to ask these beings to not disturb my meditation. They also asked me to not be afraid and simply watch the fear. It did that and it did work for the time being but the fear overpowered me during the entire retreat although I am glad that I was able to make some good progress. I want to be better prepared this time around when I am going back again. My question is what can I do better this time so I can be well prepared and so the fear of being disturbed again does not overwhelms me? I would like to practice meditation this time by leaving fear behind. Thank you for reading this.

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

  _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community  _/\_ , my person tries to answer this question. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,

 *sgift*

(This is a maybe modified and expanded answer of the "original" that can be found here .)


- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -



Maybe it would be good to change the title into "How to deal with spirits while on Vipassana-Retreat?".

Generally see them as a gift, those "teachers" appearing as spirits, for they are presenting the task that you need to fullfill to step forward.

Such disturbance is something very common and often reported by elders. It's recognised mostly as "prove" of the meditator if he is serious in goodwill, viture and objectives.

No access to vipassana for one not honest in his aspirations, for one with wrong views and lack of metta (right resolve ), a person not feeling obligated to those more sublime.

The advices of the teachers, to practice metta and to win over yourself are proper and right. Reading here a discouragement to go their again: That is opposite a warrior nature and the ways even the Buddha encouraged his Monks, who where running away from spirits, to return on that place, giving them the famouse Karaṇīya Metta-Sutta as their tool.

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

...Because the people in that area were very pious, they invited the monks to spend the three-months rain's retreat in that grove and they even built five hundred meditation huts for them.

Thinking that there is no danger, the monks plunged into meditation with great effort. However, due to the excellence of the monks' virtue, the tree-deities who lived on tree-mansions felt their own excellence diminished. So, out of reverence for the meditating monks below, did not like to reside above them. Hence, they took their children, descended from their tree-mansions and began to roam aimlessly.

Nevertheless, roaming in this manner everyday was not convenient to the deities. Therefore, in order to make the monks leave, they created terrifying forms of demons and produced dreadful noises at night when the monks were meditating. [7]

Being harassed thus, the monks were unable to concentrate. Then their seniormost Elder told them, 'Friends, there are two kinds of rains' retreat laid down by the Buddha — the early and the late. Because it is not easy for us to stay here, let us go back to the Buddha.'

All the monks then went back to the Buddha and related their frightful experience. The Buddha saw, through his supernormal power, that there is no better place for them and told them: 'Monks, there is no other suitable residence for you. It is only by residing at the same place that you will attain the eradication of the mental taints (āsavas). Go back to the same grove and reside there! If you want to be free from the harassment caused by the deities, learn this protective Sutta (paritta) of Friendliness (mettā). This will be for your protection as well as for your meditation practice. Cultivate this meditation on friendliness repeatedly and those deities will not terrify you. They will definitely show you kindness.'...
Many details and how to adjust metta proper, incl. the story behind the Metta-Sutta, you find at the link, generously, compassionated, consciously given by Ven. Nyanadassana  , who's Dhammic roots are maybe not that far away the place of you personal challenge.

If the heart is put right (e.g. right view ), if all duties are done, even the biggest monsters will not be able to disturbe you, knowing there are no faults present in me, done all my tasks. And so you metta for them and all others will be honest, pure and for all perceivable.

Prerequisite, preparation for Meditation is always Generosity fist, then and incl. firm virtue practice. See some practical advices here in this answer as well.

Best wishes and the effort to train patient and metta, devotion, as a firm and unshakeable foundation. Fear (of unskill kind) falls for one having entered the stream.



Quote from: Soham
Thanks for the answers. I do plan to go back as the benefits I got last year outweighs the cons. I will go through the fear even if I have to because in the end it is all worth.

May you rejoice with the merits of feeling not only obligated, by resolve to take on the battle! (May you) Know Soham for one who "did" it with only that.

Mudita & Anumodana!
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Many stories could be told in this relation. Let my person tell one on hunters, non-human and human.

Some years ago my person was wandering north, reached the province Preah Vihear, he came along the famous mountain "Phnom Tabaing", thought, why not walking up there. A very silent little road having crossed the main road, from there, to the stairs (still in building at this time) up to the main monastery at the east of the mountain, not even knowing what might be up there, good 3-4h from settlements.

Atthe foot some buildings indicating that many people come here sometimes. Just a lonly seller of standard food and drinks there and the whole way just shortly two people passed by. "He is arrived", one sad to the other...

After a short rest, finding luckily some stored wasching water at the rest place on the foot of the stairway, of course weak from a 30-40 km walkthis day, "climed" up the steps at late after noon.

A thorns overgrown ghost-forest all around, plants of very old origin, never seen before. At the top, a plateau, like in another world. A nice and lovely arranged Wat after a walk through the forest on the plateau. No people anywhere. Just empty houses, some huts of farming people, monastery building. After looking around a wide open behind the building, left and right maybe 50 kuties, empty accept the first, where a younger couple with a child lived. Seeningly such as house keeper.

Kindly and joyful approached, provided with drink and given a quick prepeared Kuti to rest in the disappearing dailylight.

A Brahmanism and Iddhi world, full of powerful human and non-human beings, most not very really welcoming and advocating the three Juwels.

An abbot, living under a waterfall, talented to disappear. Three dark appearing old woman, forest people, shamanics, attendant of the hinding abbot, a brahmanic "Bhikkhu", a healer and seeer, with his lay attendant, a white clothed, goat bearded, eager to test and place pitfalls. Two old Upasakas in other refunctioned Kutis on the huge empty field in the middle of the forest.

Sleeping outside, walking for alms in the morning there amoung to lay people, my person spend good a week or two there.

One day longhair ascetics crossing the field to the next monastery, about 4 km south and other cult places deeper in the forest to the west. Another day asctetics wearing leopard skins, another day ascetics in white. Behind the kuti along the forest, a shy naked ascetic, from time to time, passing by early morning, early night, always cutting throw the line for the robe for a new.

After some while, short having given the hidding abbot a visit at his remote dwelling place, my person, there alway required to reject tries touch, walked to the next monastery "three rocks monastary" heartily received by first a brahmanic healer and seer in robes and then by the abbot, a master of Jhana.

Ther being told about the prophecy that if a European monk and a Japanees monks will appear this days, there will be no religious world war, suggesting that they are happy that the prophecy seemingly runs well now. Not sure if a Japanese came later.

Being told that the place is said to be the one the future Buddha will appear meditate between the three rocks and that all monks and people trying to do so, not much later died or became total incane, my person stayed their in a small building erected next the maybe 100 m deep huge cliffs edge, together with 5000 shorty donated Buddha-images of all sizes, for a couple of days, in seclusion, here and there.

Not far from a nearby 20 huts native forest people, the only on this mountain plateau, served as place to walk for alms. It was the first time they happened to meet a beggar, althought often hundred monks dwelling next. Usually they get provided. How ever, even here, and there, told as impossible, always enough and joyful provided.

Staying longer would have require to maybe display approve of many things not good to approve.

Although some many worked protective, silent, unseen, the poposite deed likewise in other direction.

Having heard of a soon huge deligation, a big parisa, to come and other thing, my person walked on. Through the pathless thorny far remoted forest, sleeped well compfortable protected on the floor of the roots of the trees there, crossed and climed, as not realy skilled weak and having not really head for heights, usually not even desiring looking up and down such cliffs places seeming of having no entrance no exit.

After spending another good time around and on the mountain, "luckily" always provided with alms, there where nobody normaly is, even a good day-walk into the center of the forest plateu, finding the holly places, without paths, crossing forests on thiny boar tracks, sleeping on rock on dry and uge river beds, providing holes with some water in the middst of the try season, around the eights, only sounds, signs, plants, land scapes, never heared, seen before, "dark" to that extent, even by day, and bright, to that extent, even in cold and dark night, seemingly void of beings but full around in all sphears, my person walked on to the north.

Finding a unknown Vinaya monastery, after meeting countless stories of deities, seer, powerful people and cheaters, my person stayed there.

Feared by some of the authority and to cause others no troubles, then after some two weeks further into the borderland of the north, the most remoted from civilication areas, place of soldies, hunters hidden Bramanic temples, their deities and protectors.

Once reached a isolated forest village with a actually very "bad" young abbot who was nevertheless very devoted and welcoming, my person got gravely sick.

A groupe of Vietnamese people, searching along the old Ho Chi Min path for bones of their relatives, cased foolish rasism to increase. Sometimes on hunt after animals sometimes other, the forest floor and the air was full of gun fire, visibly and "invisible". High fibre since three weeks on walk and very weak did not allow to walk on.

Unbelieveable goodness at the same time, and protectikn, all around. Who would ever visit a stranger every day, to give him a masage, wash and tread of wounds? Not even most patents would receive such.

Death all around and inside, "imposible" "Devas" found my person. Some times later a off road car entered the monastery, as fast appeared the driver, having given accepance to transport this monk, disappeared from this fearful land into the south. Treaded a good while in the capital later arived here.

Not different. People no metta, no Silas, not even able to come or stay daytimes here. Those of them nevertheless stayed, have been haunted, scared, troubled, could not sleep. Have been disturbed by animals, non-human...

But if Dhammica and people like devas come, not a little disturbance, clear sky, no rains, no winds, no creeping attacks and pests, not even dogs barking in the far.

 Not only therefore, for yourself, for many, be a "selfmade" protection by developing metta, developing right resolve, being a gift for the world with your restrain of not vitreous deeds.

Many "empty" books could be written, but better to put it into action and see it for yourself. Even to ask many of the witnesses, doubt is just solved by knowing for yourself.

There then, if mastered the first steps and turn of the dhammic wheel is where Vipassana starts, found on right view, right resolve, firm in conviction, then carried by those never seen, never assumed.

What have been given, one receives in even more refined kind.

This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Marcel

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 _/\_anumodana _/\_

 _/\_sadhu, sadhu, sadhu  _/\_

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Johann

August 13, 2018, 05:13:25 AM
Händler mögen es nicht sich für passendes Mudita hinzugeben, und würden nur in Lob über deren Handelsware sprechen. Warum Leute Lobenswertes nicht loben: apacayana eine er 12 Personen: "...ein Geschäftsmann, sich seiner Schuld zum Arbeiten für seinen Vorteil verschrieben."
 

Johann

August 11, 2018, 12:06:41 AM
Erfreuenden und klärenden Neumond-Uposatha, den Ehrw. Herren, Anhängern und Interessierten.
 

Johann

August 10, 2018, 08:31:57 PM
Sokh chomreoun Nyom. Möge sich Sukha zur Vollständigkeit mehren.
 

Moritz

August 10, 2018, 06:20:44 PM
Ich muss wieder an die Arbeit. Einen angenehmen Abend, Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

August 10, 2018, 05:25:27 PM
Nyom Moritz.

Nyom Mohan.
 

Moritz

August 10, 2018, 05:18:04 PM
Guten Abend, Bhante _/\_
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

August 05, 2018, 12:58:01 PM
Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann,

ich habe der Gruppe „ Anussavika“ beigetreten.

Dhamma Grüβe an Sie aus Sri Lanka!
 

Johann

July 31, 2018, 04:38:15 PM
Den Weg kennend, im Vertrauen jenen folgen ihn gehend, gegangen, sich dann ausschließlich um die Enihsltung des Weges kümmer, gelangt man nach oben und hinaus. So, in dieser Weise, ist "der Weh ist das Ziel zu verstehen.
 

Johann

July 31, 2018, 04:33:35 PM
Mögen alles stets vorrangig auf die Qualitäten von Handlungen und Hingaben, die Ursachen für Früchte achten und nicht wie dumme gewöhnliche Leute, Zeile fixieren und danach gfreifen, die Ursachen damit fehlen, nie zu Früchten kommend, falscher Mitteln für Wirkung bedient.

Mudita
 

Johann

July 28, 2018, 07:38:00 AM
on how the blessed hobby, the liberating anime, the sublime gotchi decays for one and at a certain point for all: Dhamma-Gotchi and only fake last for some times lasting till also the mythos decays.
 

Johann

July 26, 2018, 01:50:45 PM
Morgen, Vollmond vor dem Vassa seiend, mag jener, der nicht zu sehr verstrickt in Fehlinvestitionen, die Gelegenheit für Lösung von Verstrickungen zu nützen vermögen.
 

Johann

July 26, 2018, 01:50:20 PM
Morgen, Vollmond vor dem Vassa seiend, mag jener, der nicht zu sehr verstrickt in Fehlinvestitionen, die Gelegenheit für Lösung von Verstrickungen zu nützen vermögen.

Roman

July 22, 2018, 08:01:16 PM
Danke für die Infos
und eine friedliche Nacht
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 06:27:44 PM
Atma, zieht sich nun zurück, wieder spät geworden, Nyom. Ruhe Freude und Geduld beim ungestörten Erkunden und Gelegenheiten, Gegeben-heiten, nutzen.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:13:38 PM
Atma wird das Gespräch nun versuchen in Passendes Thema im Forum zu kopieren.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:12:06 PM
In Sorge Unmut ob der Situation, gänzlich anders Vorgestellt,  zu mehren, hatte Johann nicht nach Marcel gefragt. Doch hätte er, würde er er erwähnen, wenn da dringliches und triftige Sorge um Marcel wäre. Gute Übung und Lehre, alles in allem, für viele, wenn danach ausgerichtet. Also einfach
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:06:12 PM
Bhante Indannano, Johann angerufen habend, kurz, vor Tagen, unterrichtet geworden das Johann am Weg in die Hauptstadt sein, hatte sich sehr zurückhaltend und kurz gehalten. Wohl nicht mit den weltlichen Hindernissen all zu Erfreut und noch ungelößt.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:03:21 PM
Im Verwenden des Forums, überall, keine Sorge irgendwo was Falsch zu machen, ist es Stressfreier und Langlebiger, auch für andere, als Geschenk, Nyom Roman. Woimmer.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:00:55 PM
Nyom kam Nyom als "füherer Elternteil/Verwandter" betrachten. Hie etwas Technischer: ញោម "Nyom", ñoma - Ursprung bzw. Bedeutung
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:56:10 PM
Wenn Sie sich freimachen können, besuchen Sie ihn, und machen Sie Entdeckungsreise in unbekannter Welt, während ihm vielleich Weltliches abnehmen könnend.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:53:55 PM
mit Freude tun oder Geben mag, wo immer, ist vorallem für Roman glücksverheißend, neben Moraluscher Stange zum Glück für ihn haltend.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:51:42 PM
Mag er sicher Abstand von Unsicherm Gewinnen. Was immer Roman sich inspiriet fühlt, geschicktes, niemanden Verletzendes zu geben, zu tun, gar vielleicht mehr an jemand erhabener als "nur" eigener Bruder denkend,

Roman

July 22, 2018, 02:49:04 PM
  Und was bedeutet Nyom...Ich habe versucht zu übersetzen.  Jedoch weiß ich nicht ob der Bezug richtig ist
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:48:39 PM
Johann hat ihn schon länger nicht persönlich getroffen, ob in Buchstaben, am Ohr oder mit mehr Sinnen. Gestern war er wohl online hier. Denke er ist sehr vertieft in der Praxis und hat eigentlich wenig Interesse sich um Äußerses zu kümmern.

Roman

July 22, 2018, 02:46:46 PM
Beim lesen von den Beiträgen fällt es mir noch bißchen schwer alles zu verstehen...Ich frage mich gerade wer Atma ist..Und moritz bist du für die Internetseite zuständig?  

Roman

July 22, 2018, 02:43:49 PM
Hallo,

Ich lese viel hier und wollte mich mal erkundigen wie es mit Marcel so steht..Hatte letzte Woche mit ihm gesprochen und es geht ihm gut! Hatte Johann geschrieben wie ich helfen kann..
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:41:15 PM
Nyom Roman
 

Sophorn

July 20, 2018, 05:09:54 AM
Sadhu. Möge es ein verdienstvolller Tag sein!
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

July 20, 2018, 03:06:04 AM
Allen einen verdienstvollen Silatag, der letzte vor dem Antritt der Regenrückzugszeit.
 

Sophorn

July 14, 2018, 11:10:02 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
Karuna tvay bongkum Bhante
 :-*  :-* :-*
 

Sophorn

July 14, 2018, 11:09:03 AM
 :)  ;) Moritz, gut einfühlbar. In Österreich lebte der Körper nach der asiatischen Uhr, hier in N nach der österreichischen Uhr.
Nicht zeitgerecht der Natur entsprechend zu leben, überfordert den Körper.  
Beste Grüße aus Kathmandu!  :-*
 

Johann

July 14, 2018, 11:06:18 AM
Sadhu, und vergesse Nyom sich nicht.
 

Moritz

July 14, 2018, 11:00:04 AM
Es wird spät in Hawaii. Einen friedlichen Tag allen. _/\_
 

Moritz

July 14, 2018, 07:40:41 AM
Ja, gestern Vormittag bis Nachmittag. Ich lebe wohl gerade ungefähr im Einklang mit der Zeitzone von Hawaii.
 

Johann

July 14, 2018, 07:36:45 AM
Nyom Moritz. Hat er auch ausreichend Schlaf genommen?
 

Moritz

July 14, 2018, 07:30:08 AM
Good day, Bhante _/\_
 

Moritz

July 13, 2018, 05:58:06 PM
Vandami, Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

July 13, 2018, 03:20:13 PM
Nyom Roman
 

Moritz

July 13, 2018, 03:07:40 AM
Ach ja, hab nun geändert. Vielleicht klappt's nun beim nächsten probieren @Roman
_/\_
 

Johann

July 13, 2018, 02:21:56 AM
Vielleicht gut wenn Meister Moritz Nyom Roman die 5 Mühsam-Beitagszahl hineinzaubert, da dann spamschutz wegfällt und er zu den unöffentlichen Foren Zugang hat.
 

Moritz

July 12, 2018, 09:13:06 PM
Hier eine kurze Bild-Erklärung zum Beantworten von Themen und Beiträgen.
Wenn noch Probleme, gern weiter hier nachfragen. _/\_
 

Moritz

July 12, 2018, 09:11:14 PM
Gut zu hören, dass der Bruder sich mitfreut. Sadhu! :)
Möge alles problemlos im Eintritt in das neue Leben für ihn laufen. _/\_

Roman

July 12, 2018, 09:01:41 PM
Danke moritz

Ich werde es ausprobieren!!

Aufjedenfall war es eine sehr erfreuliche Nachricht! ! Ich bin sehr stolz auf marcel!! Mein herz geht auf!! Wunderschön!
 

Moritz

July 12, 2018, 08:58:37 PM
(Also auch auf der neuen Seite, wo dann das Text-Eingabefeld ist: Das Text-Eingabefeld ist nicht gleich im Fokus, sondern man muss erst ein gutes Stück nach unten scrollen, um es zu finden.)
Nicht sicher gerade, wie es auf Smartphone aussieht, ob da viel anders ist.
 

Moritz

July 12, 2018, 08:56:57 PM
Wenn man ganz unten ans Ende der letzten Nachricht scrollt, sollte da ein Button "Reply" oder "Antworten" sein. (Je nach eingestellter Sprache vielleicht.) Da drauf klicken. Dann sollte auf der nächsten Seite eine Texteingabe-Ansicht erscheinen. Zu der muss man aber erst ein Stück runter scrollen.
 

Moritz

July 12, 2018, 08:53:20 PM
Oh, die Nachricht wurde abgeschnitten. Hier in der Shoutbox sind nur ein paar hundert Zeichen möglich.
Ja, das Forum ist etwas unübersichtlich am Anfang. Moment, ich versuche mal, zu erklären. :)

Roman

July 12, 2018, 08:41:24 PM
Hallo

Ich lese sehr viel hier!! Es ist sehr interessant!! Die Menge an Infos! ! Sehr toll!!..Ich habe versucht auf den Beitrag zu reagieren der die Entwicklung von nyom marcel beschreibt..glaube von Johann verfasst. Jedoch weiß ich noch nicht genau wie dieses funktioniert.
Ich habe die Nachric
 

Moritz

July 12, 2018, 08:34:57 PM
Hallo Roman, Binocular/Visitor _/\_
 

Johann

July 12, 2018, 02:08:25 PM
Nyom Roman
 

Johann

July 11, 2018, 10:08:30 PM
Ohh... es ist woeder mal 3 geworden. Atma erlaubt sich, sich zurückzuziehen und sich etwas um die Malaria zu kümmern.

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