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[Buddha]

Author Topic: [Q&A] How handle being "Haunted" by spirits and others, while on retreat?  (Read 388 times)

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Offline Johann

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Meditation Retreat Question - How handle being "Haunted" by spirits and others, while on retreat?

Quote from: Soham on BSE
Meditation Retreat Question

I have been following your (yuttadhammo) videos for some time. I had a question that I wanted to ask to someone who is experienced and familiar with meditation and Buddhism. I went to a 60 day meditation retreat in Myanmar last year. I had a great experience there and so as a result I am planning to go back again for 4 months at the end of this year. I have had some experiences during my last trip which puzzled and scared me a bit. I was disturbed on a couple of occasions by beings from other world at night. These were scary experiences that scared me to the core during the retreat. It was difficult for me to meditate and to fall asleep at night as my mind would always stay in that defense mode where it wouldn't relax and fall asleep. I talked to the teachers about it and they said to practice metta meditation and to ask these beings to not disturb my meditation. They also asked me to not be afraid and simply watch the fear. It did that and it did work for the time being but the fear overpowered me during the entire retreat although I am glad that I was able to make some good progress. I want to be better prepared this time around when I am going back again. My question is what can I do better this time so I can be well prepared and so the fear of being disturbed again does not overwhelms me? I would like to practice meditation this time by leaving fear behind. Thank you for reading this.

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

  _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community  _/\_ , my person tries to answer this question. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,

 *sgift*

(This is a maybe modified and expanded answer of the "original" that can be found here .)


- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -



Maybe it would be good to change the title into "How to deal with spirits while on Vipassana-Retreat?".

Generally see them as a gift, those "teachers" appearing as spirits, for they are presenting the task that you need to fullfill to step forward.

Such disturbance is something very common and often reported by elders. It's recognised mostly as "prove" of the meditator if he is serious in goodwill, viture and objectives.

No access to vipassana for one not honest in his aspirations, for one with wrong views and lack of metta (right resolve ), a person not feeling obligated to those more sublime.

The advices of the teachers, to practice metta and to win over yourself are proper and right. Reading here a discouragement to go their again: That is opposite a warrior nature and the ways even the Buddha encouraged his Monks, who where running away from spirits, to return on that place, giving them the famouse Karaṇīya Metta-Sutta as their tool.

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

...Because the people in that area were very pious, they invited the monks to spend the three-months rain's retreat in that grove and they even built five hundred meditation huts for them.

Thinking that there is no danger, the monks plunged into meditation with great effort. However, due to the excellence of the monks' virtue, the tree-deities who lived on tree-mansions felt their own excellence diminished. So, out of reverence for the meditating monks below, did not like to reside above them. Hence, they took their children, descended from their tree-mansions and began to roam aimlessly.

Nevertheless, roaming in this manner everyday was not convenient to the deities. Therefore, in order to make the monks leave, they created terrifying forms of demons and produced dreadful noises at night when the monks were meditating. [7]

Being harassed thus, the monks were unable to concentrate. Then their seniormost Elder told them, 'Friends, there are two kinds of rains' retreat laid down by the Buddha — the early and the late. Because it is not easy for us to stay here, let us go back to the Buddha.'

All the monks then went back to the Buddha and related their frightful experience. The Buddha saw, through his supernormal power, that there is no better place for them and told them: 'Monks, there is no other suitable residence for you. It is only by residing at the same place that you will attain the eradication of the mental taints (āsavas). Go back to the same grove and reside there! If you want to be free from the harassment caused by the deities, learn this protective Sutta (paritta) of Friendliness (mettā). This will be for your protection as well as for your meditation practice. Cultivate this meditation on friendliness repeatedly and those deities will not terrify you. They will definitely show you kindness.'...
Many details and how to adjust metta proper, incl. the story behind the Metta-Sutta, you find at the link, generously, compassionated, consciously given by Ven. Nyanadassana  , who's Dhammic roots are maybe not that far away the place of you personal challenge.

If the heart is put right (e.g. right view ), if all duties are done, even the biggest monsters will not be able to disturbe you, knowing there are no faults present in me, done all my tasks. And so you metta for them and all others will be honest, pure and for all perceivable.

Prerequisite, preparation for Meditation is always Generosity fist, then and incl. firm virtue practice. See some practical advices here in this answer as well.

Best wishes and the effort to train patient and metta, devotion, as a firm and unshakeable foundation. Fear (of unskill kind) falls for one having entered the stream.



Quote from: Soham
Thanks for the answers. I do plan to go back as the benefits I got last year outweighs the cons. I will go through the fear even if I have to because in the end it is all worth.

May you rejoice with the merits of feeling not only obligated, by resolve to take on the battle! (May you) Know Soham for one who "did" it with only that.

Mudita & Anumodana!
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Many stories could be told in this relation. Let my person tell one on hunters, non-human and human.

Some years ago my person was wandering north, reached the province Preah Vihear, he came along the famous mountain "Phnom Tabaing", thought, why not walking up there. A very silent little road having crossed the main road, from there, to the stairs (still in building at this time) up to the main monastery at the east of the mountain, not even knowing what might be up there, good 3-4h from settlements.

Atthe foot some buildings indicating that many people come here sometimes. Just a lonly seller of standard food and drinks there and the whole way just shortly two people passed by. "He is arrived", one sad to the other...

After a short rest, finding luckily some stored wasching water at the rest place on the foot of the stairway, of course weak from a 30-40 km walkthis day, "climed" up the steps at late after noon.

A thorns overgrown ghost-forest all around, plants of very old origin, never seen before. At the top, a plateau, like in another world. A nice and lovely arranged Wat after a walk through the forest on the plateau. No people anywhere. Just empty houses, some huts of farming people, monastery building. After looking around a wide open behind the building, left and right maybe 50 kuties, empty accept the first, where a younger couple with a child lived. Seeningly such as house keeper.

Kindly and joyful approached, provided with drink and given a quick prepeared Kuti to rest in the disappearing dailylight.

A Brahmanism and Iddhi world, full of powerful human and non-human beings, most not very really welcoming and advocating the three Juwels.

An abbot, living under a waterfall, talented to disappear. Three dark appearing old woman, forest people, shamanics, attendant of the hinding abbot, a brahmanic "Bhikkhu", a healer and seeer, with his lay attendant, a white clothed, goat bearded, eager to test and place pitfalls. Two old Upasakas in other refunctioned Kutis on the huge empty field in the middle of the forest.

Sleeping outside, walking for alms in the morning there amoung to lay people, my person spend good a week or two there.

One day longhair ascetics crossing the field to the next monastery, about 4 km south and other cult places deeper in the forest to the west. Another day asctetics wearing leopard skins, another day ascetics in white. Behind the kuti along the forest, a shy naked ascetic, from time to time, passing by early morning, early night, always cutting throw the line for the robe for a new.

After some while, short having given the hidding abbot a visit at his remote dwelling place, my person, there alway required to reject tries touch, walked to the next monastery "three rocks monastary" heartily received by first a brahmanic healer and seer in robes and then by the abbot, a master of Jhana.

Ther being told about the prophecy that if a European monk and a Japanees monks will appear this days, there will be no religious world war, suggesting that they are happy that the prophecy seemingly runs well now. Not sure if a Japanese came later.

Being told that the place is said to be the one the future Buddha will appear meditate between the three rocks and that all monks and people trying to do so, not much later died or became total incane, my person stayed their in a small building erected next the maybe 100 m deep huge cliffs edge, together with 5000 shorty donated Buddha-images of all sizes, for a couple of days, in seclusion, here and there.

Not far from a nearby 20 huts native forest people, the only on this mountain plateau, served as place to walk for alms. It was the first time they happened to meet a beggar, althought often hundred monks dwelling next. Usually they get provided. How ever, even here, and there, told as impossible, always enough and joyful provided.

Staying longer would have require to maybe display approve of many things not good to approve.

Although some many worked protective, silent, unseen, the poposite deed likewise in other direction.

Having heard of a soon huge deligation, a big parisa, to come and other thing, my person walked on. Through the pathless thorny far remoted forest, sleeped well compfortable protected on the floor of the roots of the trees there, crossed and climed, as not realy skilled weak and having not really head for heights, usually not even desiring looking up and down such cliffs places seeming of having no entrance no exit.

After spending another good time around and on the mountain, "luckily" always provided with alms, there where nobody normaly is, even a good day-walk into the center of the forest plateu, finding the holly places, without paths, crossing forests on thiny boar tracks, sleeping on rock on dry and uge river beds, providing holes with some water in the middst of the try season, around the eights, only sounds, signs, plants, land scapes, never heared, seen before, "dark" to that extent, even by day, and bright, to that extent, even in cold and dark night, seemingly void of beings but full around in all sphears, my person walked on to the north.

Finding a unknown Vinaya monastery, after meeting countless stories of deities, seer, powerful people and cheaters, my person stayed there.

Feared by some of the authority and to cause others no troubles, then after some two weeks further into the borderland of the north, the most remoted from civilication areas, place of soldies, hunters hidden Bramanic temples, their deities and protectors.

Once reached a isolated forest village with a actually very "bad" young abbot who was nevertheless very devoted and welcoming, my person got gravely sick.

A groupe of Vietnamese people, searching along the old Ho Chi Min path for bones of their relatives, cased foolish rasism to increase. Sometimes on hunt after animals sometimes other, the forest floor and the air was full of gun fire, visibly and "invisible". High fibre since three weeks on walk and very weak did not allow to walk on.

Unbelieveable goodness at the same time, and protectikn, all around. Who would ever visit a stranger every day, to give him a masage, wash and tread of wounds? Not even most patents would receive such.

Death all around and inside, "imposible" "Devas" found my person. Some times later a off road car entered the monastery, as fast appeared the driver, having given accepance to transport this monk, disappeared from this fearful land into the south. Treaded a good while in the capital later arived here.

Not different. People no metta, no Silas, not even able to come or stay daytimes here. Those of them nevertheless stayed, have been haunted, scared, troubled, could not sleep. Have been disturbed by animals, non-human...

But if Dhammica and people like devas come, not a little disturbance, clear sky, no rains, no winds, no creeping attacks and pests, not even dogs barking in the far.

 Not only therefore, for yourself, for many, be a "selfmade" protection by developing metta, developing right resolve, being a gift for the world with your restrain of not vitreous deeds.

Many "empty" books could be written, but better to put it into action and see it for yourself. Even to ask many of the witnesses, doubt is just solved by knowing for yourself.

There then, if mastered the first steps and turn of the dhammic wheel is where Vipassana starts, found on right view, right resolve, firm in conviction, then carried by those never seen, never assumed.

What have been given, one receives in even more refined kind.

This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Marcel

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  • Active Member
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  • Gender: Male
  • Alias/zuvor/auch: "nitthuracitta"

 _/\_anumodana _/\_

 _/\_sadhu, sadhu, sadhu  _/\_

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Johann

Today at 03:15:10 PM
Nyom Roman.
 

Johann

October 12, 2018, 04:13:16 PM
Good to see Nyom Norum.
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 10:38:10 AM
Maybe of support for lasting satifaction: Seeds of Becoming .
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 06:57:38 AM
When ever love arises, dislike will be it's end. Who ever seeks out for friends, will get his enemy. Why? Because not willing to leave home. May wanderer gus find the way to never return. Mudita

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:58 AM
Vandami.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:22 AM
Nevertheless my courage of active participation  has been fallen down. Anyway I hope to come time to time.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam khamata me bhante.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:37:11 AM
Okasa bhante,

I didn't accepted Dymitros invitation to start a Theravada forum, because I thought this forum is pure Theravada. Now I regret about it, yet think this forum is comparatively good.  I learnt many valuable things from you and grateful to you. Nevertheless my courage of active partici
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 02:20:29 AM
What ever one searches for, that he/she will find. Less are those seeing the nature of combined thing, leaving home and go beyond Maras domain.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:45:18 PM
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:39:12 PM
When one is born in outer regions ... your island has drifted away.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:30:00 PM
macchariya, a boarder hard to cross to the middle way, abounding home, sakayaditthi, doubt and rituals.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:33:02 PM
However much one say, West is West, East is East.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 02:28:29 PM
Where ever there is east, there is west. And vici versa. Where ever there is nama, there is rupa. Where ever one seeks for a home, there he will suffer.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:03:31 PM
West is West

gus

October 06, 2018, 09:56:42 AM
belief of kamma, gratitude, independence, honesty, devotion : These are hard to find in people
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:49:14 AM
Again, a latin proverb mit be useful: Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi , patisota is always harmful if not just one own defilements or having a proper stand to help. Sota is the virtue required to resist in borderlands.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:41:52 AM
If in a borderland it's better to simply serve and support the Sangha. It's not smart to seek for other householders to nurish on traced imperfections of something required to uphold, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 04:54:48 AM
Okasa, happy to hear such things reagarding kamma. Many monks I have met don't directly speak about kamma because they have been tired after practicing some years and now bit relaxed.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:17:26 AM
Such can be total kusala and total akusala or simply defuse. Set your mind right and be mindful, that nothing will be of harm for yourself and others.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:15:27 AM
There is nothing not permitted. Merits or demerits are the actors responsibility. One is full in charge of ones action in this Domain here, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 03:50:00 AM
Bhante, is it permitted to ask questions or post things on behalf of other/future people ?

gus

October 05, 2018, 09:19:32 AM
We have been advised like this:
"No matter however much monks reject you,
Never leave the place."
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 09:09:37 AM
It's good when wanderer gus takes a rest, turns to a lonly place, enjoys the merits done and find a good place for his mind and fixes possible open wholes when clear where he likes to go some hours later.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 08:59:03 AM
Wanderer Gus knows how foolish this statement is. That is not the way to get out of a hole.

gus

October 05, 2018, 08:42:59 AM
okasa,
falling down from a status is suffering.
So, if I could stay in the hell-being status from the beginning, then no suffering.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:33:20 AM
From a state of a young Bhikkhu equal tradition...to householder... ...asura (now) on the border to animal, peta, hell-state. It can go quick if not having firm nissaya.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:29:27 AM
Aniccam vatta samsara...

gus

October 05, 2018, 06:56:28 AM
Evolution:
Bhante subhuti =>
Upasaka gus =>
Deva gus =>
Asura gus.

In the future:
Asura gus =>
Peta gus =>
Animal gus =>
Hell-being gus ???

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:51:42 AM
Okasa, I think bhante thinks me as a patriot because of some content of my posts. But it is not.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 05:41:33 AM
What ever one likes to, not touched like the moon, does not mean to praise what is blameworthy and vici-versa and to have metta not to let people run into hell if ways can be pointed out. Yet other choices at least are their. Be quick, your island drifts away!

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:34:15 AM
Okasa,
As long as I don't do exactly what you say, I think I'll not be able to make you happy or satisfied.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 02:12:55 PM
If thinking that this is for sure, if delighting in believing that connected things are a refuge and give space to rest: one may do so. Ones own choice. When ever one stops to nurish inwardly, ouwardly path and fruits die. Good as well as bad.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:28:51 AM
If bhante didn't let the weak person to live in avatar/deva mode, then he will lose both openness and connection. Up to now I have secured at least the connection.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:22:24 AM
Yet I appreciate and pay vandana for your care and advice on openness.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:19:56 AM
Please forgive me  bhante if I have made you tired. I don't like to accumulate akusala by making a monk tired in expecting a naughty chicken to be a good duck.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam Khamtu me bhante!
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:07:06 AM
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:01:00 AM
Differnt asked "why is Bhante not happy, dwell not in outwardly seeming being not touched?" Because it would not only confirm and show sign of aggreement of unwise acts, but also very incompassionate and cruel. Also place for suspecting corrupt ways and invite others to follow the comfortable dwelli
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:54:12 AM
No one is able to make my person angry, which does not mean that he would not appear angry so to possible prevent from doing what is not conductive for liberation, even lead in lower states. Nothing to worry, but also no invitation to test it foolish since it could hurt one self and others.

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:46:39 AM
Okasa bhante, Isn't there at least single way to stay anonymous without making you angry?
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:33:12 AM
corr: "it's, the domain of the Noble Ones, is nobody's personal domain" there are no wards around fields for merits and no tickets to pay
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:29:31 AM
What ever Deva gus feels inspired. It's oneones personal domain and all giving is good in the distance of the brigh cool moon. One should not fear, should not be shy to do what is good and praised by the wise but be quick!

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:21:39 AM
Bhante, is that mean you don't like me to talk about higher subjects and like to talk about basics only?
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:02:12 AM
It would be more than good if teaching others a lot on the topic vandami (paying respect) and khamatu (asking for forgiviness) since unknown and not practiced here around this field of merits in compassion to former relatives, Deva gus.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:55:38 AM
...total no problem to dwell and lay down in the cool shadow to heal at all and no need to ask for pardon when intended for progressing and to get fit for the battles so hard to win.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:52:39 AM
But they would not feed them in ways which might look as nurishing relations for wordly sake directly, for people not understanding would think "look, he is herding, carry for his cattle, he wasts the gift of the land, the heritage of the Gems for his becoming and own gain. Understood? Total no prob
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:45:29 AM
Never would people of integrity send away pets, petas or sick, for they are not able to change for now but possible can gain of what they need to change.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:42:28 AM
If, just to think about, one lives deliberatly with sign showing a rejection of firm trust in kamma, one lives in nurishing the danger of falling into grave wrong views and give ways that others follow what is improper to do. Just to reflect. How ever wishing to do.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:36:03 AM
What ever one does, holds as refuge or abounds, either good or bad refuge, one does for one self. Ones own choices, ones own fruits, ones own limitations, hindrences.

gus

October 04, 2018, 09:28:15 AM
Khamatu me bhante!
My previous  post was this.
"Please forgive me and give birth to kindness ao as to let me live here anonymous "
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:21:35 AM
... doing so based on gratitude without just trading in giving, or out of duty in a relation one resits, one is able to get not only to the borders, but into Noble ones domain.

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