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Author Topic: [Q&A] Breach of second precept (copyrights, Dhamma books)  (Read 397 times)

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Online Johann

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[Q&A] Breach of second precept (copyrights, Dhamma books)
« on: December 05, 2017, 12:27:32 PM »
[Q&A] Breach of second precept (copyrights, Dhamma books)

Breach of second precept

Is copying a Dhamma book in hard copy and converting it into a pdf to read on my kindle a breach of the second precept? I am planning only to read it myself and not give it to anyone.

I also thought that Dhamma material should be free. Why are people amongst them well known monks and nuns charging for dhamma material?

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

  _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community  _/\_ , my person tries to answer this question. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,


(This is a maybe modified and expanded answer of the "original" that can be found here .)

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa    -

take what is not given, is a break of the precept. Just prove that, possible ask the owner (giver), which is not wrong for householder to do and should be usual.

If it is not given, (free; or by a certain deal, you do not keep, can not keep) don't take it, make it.

In regard of "should be" and rights, demanting: that is lead by wrong view. It's not good to think so, and it would lead to either breaking the precept your self or to encourage others to do, which breaks the precept as well, is told so, and then done by others.

Root of wrong deeds or right deeds is view and resolve:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

Unskillful Mental Action
"And how is one made impure in three ways by mental action? There is the case where a certain person is covetous. He covets the belongings of others, thinking, 'O, that what belongs to others would be mine!' He bears ill will, corrupt in the resolves of his heart: 'May these beings be killed or cut apart or crushed or destroyed, or may they not exist at all!' He has wrong view, is warped in the way he sees things: 'There is nothing given, nothing offered, nothing sacrificed. There is no fruit or result of good or bad actions. There is no this world, no next world, no mother, no father, no spontaneously reborn beings; no brahmans or contemplatives who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is how one is made impure in three ways by mental action.

Skillful Mental Action

"And how is one made pure in three ways by mental action? There is the case where a certain person is not covetous. He does not covet the belongings of others, thinking, 'O, that what belongs to others would be mine!' He bears no ill will and is not corrupt in the resolves of his heart. [He thinks,] 'May these beings be free from animosity, free from oppression, free from trouble, and may they look after themselves with ease!' He has right view and is not warped in the way he sees things: 'There is what is given, what is offered, what is sacrificed. There are fruits & results of good & bad actions. There is this world & the next world. There is mother & father. There are spontaneously reborn beings; there are brahmans & contemplatives who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is how one is made pure in three ways by mental action.

In regard of possibly doing not forwarding something (stinginess or business with Dhamma , eg. heavy goods of the Sangha), that's for this act "stealing" as well (even regardable as the biggest thief), in regard of Dhamma, since it has been not given for trade (has a heir, an owner). And if wasting away, or derive it from it's owner, if for example saying "it's free (to take) and owned by everyone" (e.g. compulsory purchase), it's a thief as well, if the owner loses his heritage.

But all that cases should be viewed from the does, actors side: one does good to look at ones own deeds, yet, it's not wrong to be compassioned and tell other: "Hey! Take care on you actions and protect yourself from bad results."

So on that account it's also good to reflect on ways when one is involved in thieving, makes use of unrightousness for ones own personal easy going.

That is why any kind of trade and Dhamma does not fit to each other,and is never able to transport it's meaning.

Maybe in addition, if taking seriously on trust, knowing the owner will be happy if you take and he/she is still alive, would be a "taking what is given", but as told, a short questing if so makes things more at ease.

Generally spoken and adviced: Neither selling nor buying Dhamma is in line with Dhamma-Vinaya and of long lasting benefit.

Also, taking and demanding of what is not given, or giving of what is not ones own or given to do so, e.g. stealing a gifts purpose, will always be troublesome and leads to poorness and bad states like all taking away, derive either possession, life, livelihood or even the truth.

As the Buddha told his disciples: better to eat hot iron balls (e.g. bear certain suffering or hardship) then to receive a gift given with strings (bond to the world) and not torward release and Nibbana.

It's generally importand to keep in mind that if something has been done wrong before such would allow to do wrong afterwards. There is a underlying extortion within it and this is the reason why corrupt ways, one taken on, easily become a usual. That is the reason why in some countries one is required to report capital wrong doings so to cut off ways to develop usuals from wrongs and gain benefit from the wrong deeds done by others in tolerating them, better taking part.

So one should not try to find gains in what is wrong, aprove it, thinking "I have a benefit from it and it's the action of someone else". While such thought would not cause a break of a precept on a conduct level in most cases, aprove mentaly is kammic not that different to do by ones own hand and leads to same results.

« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 12:40:20 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Online Johann

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Does using a pdf for sale for free violate the 2nd precept?
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2017, 06:01:04 AM »
Words on a related question :

es. And Sadhu for the answer by Upayavira.

Quote from: Upayavira

Consider the intent of the originator. We live in a world that has Copyright, which didn't exist at the time of the Buddha. If I walk into your house and remove your favourite object - how do you feel? If I make use of something that you have been led by the law of your land to believe that I am not allowed to use, how do you feel? The second precept is all about respecting others - we must not look at it in a legalistic way, as if it is a set of rules to be understood and then actioned rigidly. The intent is simply that we act in accordance with the first precept - with kindness, consideration, and respect. That, alone, would cause me to think very hard before copying something to which I do not have the rights.

The word "steal" should be always replaced with "taking/using what is not given". If using "stealing" it leaves many doors for justification to ones normal social usuals in tolerating unskillfulness for common or individual gain.

Althought there are many unvirtuouse "Buddhist" even scholars and monks around, using even Abhidhamma and wording of higher virtue to justify their ways, still with honest and reflective answers of your own conscious or people displaying such. The "smart" are of no worth and impure lineage.

It might be good to know what to do if having falken into a transgression.

1. Confess it in a group or to an individual who have not fallen into same transgression.

2. If possible pay compensation and/or accepted pardon if possible. Otherwise, if no further damage can be expected, forfeit the unrightous gained.

3. Resolve to abstain from it in future (good if making it in formal way by taking, asking the precepts anew).

4. Try to find assossiation with people where taking what is given is taken serious to possible grow and not to tend upwards naturally.

Again, from another answer, also:

There are NO valid justifications of any wrong deed.

MN 97: Dhanañjani Sutta — To Dhanañjani gives good and clear answers.

It's a valid justification to bear hardships, leave, starve and go beyond for holding on precepts.

This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Online Johann

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[F&A] Brechen der zweiten Tugenregel (Copyrights, Dhamma-Bücher)
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2018, 05:33:12 PM »

Aramika   *

Ein oder mehrer Beiträge wurden hier im Thema abgeschnitten und damit in neues Thema "[F&A] Brechen der zweiten Tugenregel (Copyrights, Dhamma-Bücher) " eröffnet, dem angehäng.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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Today at 05:20:12 AM
This "wiki"-like backup tool is meant as a outwardy insurance that one does not be afraid that anything possible good can be desroyed or made bad while looking for cleaning it. So worry at all, kamma does not dissapear. No need to fear to make good deeds, knowing that.


Today at 04:03:35 AM
And there is no intention to just make a museum out of a working and concentration camp, since the Dhamma can not be understood by just looking on forms but by learning and experiance skillful deeds.


Today at 04:00:47 AM
Post-history: http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,1164.0.html (but there is no notification system). My person uses to make a @mention , off topic "/me" in the OP.


Today at 03:49:28 AM
Or to simply make a new post. No need to be shy in doing good things. It's not a museum, it's a working and concentration place. Mudita.


Today at 03:47:57 AM
There is such as a "wiki" backup function in all posts, Nyom Danilo. Good is to use the mention option, at the places where making changes @Johann , that it gets not "lost".


Today at 03:02:46 AM
I have a backup of the original post in any case. I might review the second post next time. Very insightful teaching. _/\_


Today at 03:01:35 AM
I've recently fixed many words and sentences of the first post of the thread "Debts, but to whom?". It take me some time trying to figure out the meaning of some sentences. So it would be good if Bhante could check if the original intended meaning of the post still intact. I have a backup of the ori


Today at 01:57:28 AM
_/\_ _/\_ _/\_


Today at 12:01:09 AM
One leading to peaks pointing downward so that aging, sickness and death can be seen, know him/her as a sage, a giver of release.


March 18, 2018, 11:57:30 PM
One leading people to papanca, promoting rejoicing in objectification as the heart wood, increases to fields of corpse in the world.


March 18, 2018, 12:03:14 AM
Good night _/\_


March 17, 2018, 11:59:14 PM
Vandami, Bhante _/\_


March 17, 2018, 11:51:37 PM


March 16, 2018, 01:19:17 AM


March 15, 2018, 09:53:07 PM
 :-* ich wünschen allen einen verdienstvollen uposatha  :-*


March 14, 2018, 11:19:11 PM
Sounds like a good idea to rest. I will be taking a break from the internet for a while i feel detached a lot from the worldly feminisms and all. It is wonderful not to be lusting, walking the streets with lowered gaze, delighting in meditation... I fear it compromises me to even think about the pol


March 14, 2018, 11:10:27 PM


March 14, 2018, 10:58:38 PM
Marcel, Morits, Upasaka X, it's time to break up this auspicious coming in touch now also for my person. Observe, remember, how you have been yesterday an now and guess of what will be tomorrow probably... maybe just not sure.


March 14, 2018, 10:06:46 PM
Sadhu, _/\_

may Bhante have a peaceful day.

Chom reap sour.


March 14, 2018, 09:58:42 PM
 :-* :-* :-*


March 14, 2018, 09:55:00 PM
O yes... will be a long day, this yesterday, but possible a remorseless.


March 14, 2018, 09:46:45 PM
Vandami Bhante,
good evening (morning in Cambodia?).



March 14, 2018, 03:03:38 AM
Wie war es gestern? Wie geht es heute?

How was it yesterday? How are you today?


March 06, 2018, 02:24:03 PM
Nyom Jens.


March 05, 2018, 02:25:22 PM
 :-* erhwürdiger bhante johann  :-*


March 05, 2018, 02:17:57 PM
Nyom Marcel


March 01, 2018, 12:52:02 AM
Sadhu, eine des Magha-puja allen jenen die sie heute Begehen.


February 28, 2018, 09:48:58 PM
 :-* allen ein verdienstvollen uposatha tag :-*


February 24, 2018, 02:37:41 AM


February 24, 2018, 01:31:25 AM


February 24, 2018, 12:50:00 AM
Es ist sehr selten, ungewöhnlich und erfreulich, zur Mitfreude anregend, junge Menschen Kloster aufsuchend zu sehen.


February 23, 2018, 02:56:54 PM
Namasakara, Bhante _/\_


February 23, 2018, 04:04:45 AM


February 23, 2018, 02:16:16 AM
Nyom Danilo.
(Atma will leave for a while for his almsround.)


February 22, 2018, 10:08:41 PM
 :-* ehrwürdiger bhante johann, ja ich ahb die khmer tastatur installiert! ich werde in den nächsten tagen text teilen und berichten!  :-*


February 22, 2018, 12:34:06 PM
Hat Nyom Marcel schon eine Khmer Tastatur installiert?


February 22, 2018, 12:32:21 PM
So ist das. Wenn Nahrung aufgebraucht, dann ist da für eine Weile Ende, und Wiedergeboren, es wieder brennen wird. Zum endgültigen legen des Feuers sind wir hier, oder? Pfau ruft, Gecko balzt, alles in Ordnung, oder?


February 22, 2018, 12:16:35 PM
 :-* ehrwürdiger bhante johann, letzte nacht davon geträumt, dass es beim ashram brennt!!
ich hoffe, das feuer hat sich gelegt  :-*


February 22, 2018, 11:43:37 AM
Nyom Marcel.


February 22, 2018, 09:08:57 AM


February 22, 2018, 08:49:51 AM
Möge Regen kommen und alle beschützt werden


February 22, 2018, 01:59:08 AM


February 22, 2018, 01:04:19 AM
ich  wünsche einen verdienstvollen uposatha!! all jende für morgen auch einen hervorragenden uposatha!!!
 :-* :-* :-*


February 19, 2018, 06:00:04 PM
Much joy and releasing touches here, Nyom Chris, my person will leave for today, befor it becomes tomorrow, and rest a little.


February 14, 2018, 03:57:33 PM
Sadhu, auch jenen, die ihn morgen, auch Chinesisches Neujahrsfest, begehen, einhalten.


February 14, 2018, 01:37:51 PM
einen verdienstvollen uposatha allen!!!


February 10, 2018, 12:31:09 PM
Sadhu! Mag er fruchtvoll verlaufen sein. Gerade wieder Möglichkeit erhalten, in dieser Welt hier beizutragen.


February 08, 2018, 12:46:43 PM
 :-* :-* :-* ich wünsche allen einen verdienstvollen uposatha  :-* :-* :-*


February 05, 2018, 02:19:14 PM

 :-* :-* :-* sadhu,sadhu,sadhu

 :-* :-* :-*


February 02, 2018, 12:38:06 PM
Meinereiner ist so schnell ie noch nie genesen. Die Symptome des Befalls nur 2 Tage, und die üblichen 5 Tage um das Medikament zu überstehen. Atma ist gerade wohl auf und auch das ist wie für alle nicht sicher. Nutze den Tag heißt vorallem über Alter, Krankheit und Tod, wie Alternative z

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