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[Buddha]

Author Topic: [Q&A] Greed and karma: is there a distingtion between killing in anger or greed?  (Read 207 times)

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Online Johann

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Greed and karma: is there a distingtion between killing in anger or greed?

Quote from: B1100 on BSE
Greed and Karma

What is the difference between greed and karma? For instance, a person eats meat greedily, greed for meat but no direct killing. Another person kills a cat (not for food) but he is not greedy. Which one is more unwholesome or causing more suffering, killing or greed?


Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

  _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community  _/\_ , my person tries to answer this question. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,

 *sgift*

(This is a maybe modified and expanded answer of the "original" that can be found here .)

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -



My person "has to" ask:

Why seaching after better evil? Why not striving for abstain of evil and follow what one him/herself wouldn't harm?

How can there be killing, harming life, without greed, desire, thirst (tanha), caving after sensual pleasure, becoming, not-becoming/being?

Killing and taking of what is not given, abuse and lying, speaking untrue and for a favour, always involves desire for one or another food (joy from physical nurishment, touch/contact, intellectual intention, consciousness). Just look attentive. That's corruption (duṭṭha), nothing else. Don't feed corruption in ways of thinking, in ways of association, nurishment and entertainment.

Why seek for better foolishness and don't go after the wise? What does one expect on such looping tracks of views and stands. Dhamma is simple: abstaining from harming life is skillful and beyound that, in this regard, there is no good. Entertaining ones intellect? Such causes a lot of pain, for one self and many.

There is no such as aversion and in it's extrem killing when there is no such as big greed and love (tanha for sensuality, becoming, not becoming/being) on first place. And there is no such as greed if there is not strong delusion at first place, wrong view, not-knowing.

Hatred, aversion, is "just" the other side of love, the twin brother, honey (his poision) for the fool :

 

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa


thinking , 'O, that what belongs to others would be mine!' He bears ill will, corrupt in the resolves of his heart: 'May these beings be killed or cut apart or crushed or destroyed, or may they not exist at all!' He has wrong view, is warped in the way he sees things: 'There is nothing given, nothing offered, nothing sacrificed. There is no fruit or result of good or bad actions. There is no this world, no next world, no mother, no father, no spontaneously reborn beings; no brahmans or contemplatives who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is how one is made impure in three ways by mental action.
Quote from: an10.176

So at least it's all a matter of how strong delusion is, how obviously basic right view.

On it wrong resolve/intent/will is based, which is base of actions by body, signs, thoughts.

 

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa


"And what is right resolve? Being resolved on renunciation, on freedom from ill will, on harmlessness: This is called right resolve.
Quote from: Right Resolve

It's not possible to kill (by one self, bodily), order to kill (speech, signs), or approve killing of what ever being (thoughts of agree, acceptance, joy for benefit of what one regards as own, or good, e.g. killing the "bad" is also forced by selfidentification, desire), for what ever purpose, without strong unskillful mind (connected with greed, aversion, delusion), without strong effects and causes.

 

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -


Ways of acting

"Bhikkhus, followed by those three things, one is headed and designated for hell.[13] Which three? One self takes life,[14] instigates others to take life, and approves taking of life. These, Bhikkhus, are the three things, of which one is headed and designated for hell."

"One self speaks what is not true,[18] instigates others to speak what is not true, and approves speaking of what is not true..."

"One self abstains from speaking of what is not true, instigates others to abstain from speaking of what is not true, and approves abstaining from speaking of what is not true..."

"One self has wrong view,[24] instigates others to wrong view, and approves wrong view..."

"One self has right view, instigates others to right view, and approves right view. These, Bhikkhus, are the three things, of which one is headed and designated for heaven."

Good companionship and others

"Bhikkhus, I do not know anything else that arouses non arisen merit [1] and fades arisen demerit[2] as good companionship. Good companions arouse non arisen merit and fades arisen demerit. This is the first.

"Bhikkhus, I do not know anything else that arouses non arisen demerit and fades arisen merit as evil companionship. Evil companions arouse non-arisen demerit and fades arisen merit. This is the second.

The Second Section on Heedlessness

"Bhikkhus, those who point out wrong Dhamma as Dhamma, Bhikkhus, those archive harm for many people, suffering for many people, for the sorrow and suffering of heavenly and human beings. Much demerits, Bhikkhus, those produce, for the disappearing of the true Dhamma.

Truly unfortunate are many if looking with whom and where they associate, what they pay rebut to... May they work on their ways out!

Because beings, not arrived at Dhamma yet, are unable to distinguish between defiled and right judgment of what is intention, of what quality the mind actually is, one does good to stick simple by "not taking life/destroy life/take existence of beings" (of what ever kind they came into being, by oneself, in order, or agree). Later it will be not different but just naturally. Such ideas of doing bad might be good are ideas of fools who are good to be avoided striktly.
 

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa


Not consorting with fools,
  consorting with the wise,
  paying homage to those worthy of homage:
      This is the highest protection.

And what should be killed?

Kill possible all notions to associated, assist, approve, nurish, accept and entertain (upadana) toward actions and signs of them inwardly and before outwardly to success. This is the kind of aversion and disgust the wise approve, like to be extrem "greedy" after liberation, after right view and not getting lost in a thicket of wrong views and improper attention.
 

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa


"What do you think Dhanañjani? There is the case where a certain person, for the sake of his mother & father, does what is unrighteous, does what is discordant. ...for the sake of his wife & children ... his slaves & workers ... his friends & companions ... his kinsmen & relatives ... his guests ... his departed ancestors ... the devatas ... the king, does what is unrighteous, does what is discordant...for the sake of refreshing & nourishing his body, does what is unrighteous, does what is discordant. Then, because of his unrighteous, discordant behavior, hell-wardens drag him off to hell. Would he gain anything by saying, 'I did what is unrighteous, what is discordant, for the sake of refreshing & nourishing my body. Don't [throw] me into hell, hell-wardens!' Or would others gain anything for him by saying, 'He did what is unrighteous, what is discordant, for the sake of refreshing & nourishing his body. Don't [throw] him into hell, hell-wardens!'?"

"No, master Sariputta. Even right while he was wailing, they'd cast him into hell."...

"Dhanañjani , there are other activities — reasonable, righteous — by which one can refresh & nourish one's body, and at the same time both not do evil and practice the practice of merit."
Quote from: Dhanañjani

Anumodana!
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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April 22, 2018, 09:11:17 AM
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 :-* :-* :-*
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May many renew their vows in silas today.   :-* :-* :-*
 

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Namasakara, Bhante. _/\_
 

Moritz

April 10, 2018, 07:19:18 PM
Hello.
 

Johann

April 10, 2018, 01:09:20 PM
Nyom. (Sideboad ist stets zugeklappt... tech. Probl.) 3:00 ist auch schon guten Tag.
 

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April 10, 2018, 03:06:49 AM
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_/\_
 

Moritz

April 10, 2018, 02:54:42 AM
Namasakara, Bhante. _/\_
 

Johann

April 09, 2018, 09:43:17 AM
Take your time Nyom Danilo and watch the breath to stay best calm for best benefit. A lot of chances to get ride of many ols burdens.
 

Danilo

April 08, 2018, 06:24:57 PM
_/\_
 

Johann

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sadhu!
 

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Good Uposatha to all. _/\_
 

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March 31, 2018, 09:52:03 AM
 :-* ich wünsche allen ein verdienstvollen uposatha  :-*
 

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March 27, 2018, 06:44:11 PM
Atma zieht sich hier nun zurück. Möge sich Vollkommenheit einstellen.
 

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Nyom Binocular.
 

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March 27, 2018, 01:47:58 PM
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March 27, 2018, 01:41:50 PM
Moritz, mag sich Vollendung ergeben. (Chamreun bo)
 

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Moritz

March 27, 2018, 12:11:33 PM
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March 26, 2018, 01:42:45 PM
Nyom Binocular.

my person will leave for today and rests. There have been left some hard challenges (sure for many). May they be releasing taken and increase conviction.
 

Johann

March 25, 2018, 01:40:14 PM
Gute Antwort. Sadhu!
 

Marcel

March 25, 2018, 12:46:12 PM
 :-* :-* :-*

beste wünsche zurück an erhwürdigen bhante! es ist unsicher wann ich wieder komme! upanissayapaccayena!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

March 25, 2018, 12:28:38 PM
Marcel.
(Heute im Nordkloster, best wünsche vom Abt dort, er fragt stets "Wann kommt er? Ich muß immer an ihn denken."
 

Johann

March 24, 2018, 10:44:34 AM
Sadhu!
 

Marcel

March 24, 2018, 09:52:48 AM
 :-* heute ist uposatha!! ich wünsche allen ein verdienstvollen tag! mögen die devas jene bescheid geben, die kein zugang haben! :-*
 

Johann

March 23, 2018, 11:37:46 AM
Sadhu! Zu was immer einer Zuflucht nimmt, sich hingibt, daran erfreut, das wird/ist sein Schutz, für Bindung oder Ungebundenheit.
 

Marcel

March 23, 2018, 01:43:01 AM
 :-* möge die drei juwelen den ehrwürdigen bhante beschützen und ihn auf seinem weg unterstützen :-*
 

Johann

March 23, 2018, 01:28:02 AM
Kampf der Devas mit den Asuras um den Berg. :)
 

Johann

March 23, 2018, 01:26:30 AM
Regenzeit... außen trüb und unangenehm, nagend, faulend, doch dahinter ist alles fein.
 

Marcel

March 23, 2018, 01:10:47 AM
 :-* ehrwürdiger bhante johann, ja soweit alles gut! und wie geht es ihnen?  :-*
 

Johann

March 23, 2018, 12:58:05 AM
verlesen... Marcel :) alles gut im (ver)laufen?
 

Johann

March 23, 2018, 12:26:23 AM
Moritz
 

Administration

March 21, 2018, 03:42:55 PM
Sadhu!
 

Marcel

March 21, 2018, 03:32:47 PM
 :-* mögen sie alle noch in diesem leben das herz von avijja befreien!!! :-*
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 05:20:12 AM
This "wiki"-like backup tool is meant as a outwardy insurance that one does not be afraid that anything possible good can be desroyed or made bad while looking for cleaning it. So worry at all, kamma does not dissapear. No need to fear to make good deeds, knowing that.
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 04:03:35 AM
And there is no intention to just make a museum out of a working and concentration camp, since the Dhamma can not be understood by just looking on forms but by learning and experiance skillful deeds.
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 04:00:47 AM
Post-history: http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,1164.0.html (but there is no notification system). My person uses to make a @mention , off topic "/me" in the OP.
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 03:49:28 AM
Or to simply make a new post. No need to be shy in doing good things. It's not a museum, it's a working and concentration place. Mudita.
 

Johann

March 19, 2018, 03:47:57 AM
There is such as a "wiki" backup function in all posts, Nyom Danilo. Good is to use the mention option, at the places where making changes @Johann , that it gets not "lost".
 

Danilo

March 19, 2018, 03:02:46 AM
I have a backup of the original post in any case. I might review the second post next time. Very insightful teaching. _/\_
 

Danilo

March 19, 2018, 03:01:35 AM
I've recently fixed many words and sentences of the first post of the thread "Debts, but to whom?". It take me some time trying to figure out the meaning of some sentences. So it would be good if Bhante could check if the original intended meaning of the post still intact. I have a backup of the ori
 

Danilo

March 19, 2018, 01:57:28 AM
_/\_ _/\_ _/\_

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