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Talkbox

2019 Jan 22 02:22:04
Chanroth: សាធុសាធុសាធុ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jan 22 02:13:50
Cheav Villa: ចាពូ នេះជាដំណឹង​រីករាយ​ សូមពូបានបន្តនូវការងារជាបុណ្យកុសល និងខ្ញុំសូមចែកបុណ្យនេះផង _/\_

2019 Jan 22 02:10:57
Chanroth: ជំរាបសួរបងស្រីvilllaខ្ញុំបានបាត់ថ្លេាះកហើយសព្វថ្ងៃខ្ញុំកំពង់ធ្វើកានៅអាស្រម _/\_

2019 Jan 22 00:53:22
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Jan 21 20:57:18
Johann: dhammata, not sure, changing, up and down, the welbeing, with a decaying body, Nyom

2019 Jan 21 15:05:52
Cheav Villa:  _/\_. How is Bhante health?

2019 Jan 21 10:27:30
Cheav Villa: Short day and long night _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jan 21 10:23:39
Johann: Time of the weakest sun energy in the year, this days.

2019 Jan 20 16:05:13
Johann: Nyom Vitou

2019 Jan 20 10:43:06
Johann: ភនតេ មុនី

2019 Jan 20 06:25:22
Johann: Oh, there is a nice teaching on believes in names in the Jatakas: NĀMASIDDHI-JĀTAKA , scroll down for english.

2019 Jan 20 06:21:44
Johann: Nyom Buddhi

2019 Jan 20 06:20:13
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំុ Vandami Bhante

2019 Jan 20 05:57:24
Johann: Bonn Phum (harvest festival), sunny sunday, fullmoon uposatta in both Nikayas... seems to be a Devas and Gods delight day today, before the great cold.

2019 Jan 20 01:09:45
Johann: Bhante Indannano  _/\_

2019 Jan 19 01:28:38
Johann: "A monk with admirable people    as friends — who's reverential, respectful, doing what his friends advise — mindful, alert, attains step by step    the ending of all fetters." iti 17

2019 Jan 18 16:31:13
Johann: ភនតេ មុនី ការភ្ជាប់សំឡេងភ្ជាប់

2019 Jan 18 13:45:40
Johann: Guess all is now proper sorted in the correspondig topic. If something got "lost", put wrongely, may one let it be known.

2019 Jan 18 10:34:49
Johann: Reading, translating the many forzmguides.

2019 Jan 18 10:34:01
Johann: Mudita. Yet much new, much to learn, much to explore: patient is importand, and observing ways of doing things.

2019 Jan 18 07:29:08
Cheav Villa: But not yet finished, .. touched enter  ^-^ and..

2019 Jan 18 07:25:06
Cheav Villa: Bhante Muni actually said.. really enjoyed of dwelling here  _/\_

2019 Jan 18 06:42:04
Johann: much uddhacca-kukkucca, or?

2019 Jan 18 06:10:12
Johann: Bhante Muni wrote: "I, Brah Karuna, Atma-peap, am greating ñati ñoma (former blood relatives) to the extend of respecting goodwill (metta), I, Brah Karuna, Atma-peap, really..."

2019 Jan 18 06:01:10
Johann: One easy becomes a browser (neak quial hungry)

2019 Jan 18 05:56:43
Cheav Villa:  :D :D :D _/\_

2019 Jan 18 05:55:26
Johann: Atma is now very busy in cutting, moving, mergle... maybe slowly and with mindfulness: where am I? Whats the topic?...  :)

2019 Jan 18 04:38:03
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻ករុណាសូមថ្វាយបង្គំុ Bhante Muny 

2019 Jan 18 04:20:34
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jan 18 04:19:09
Muni: ខ្ញុំព្រះករុណាអាត្មាភាព សូមនមស្សការនិងចម្រើនពរញាតិញោម ដោយសេចក្ដីគោរពរាប់អាន ខ្ញុំព្រះករុណាអាត្មាភាពពិត

2019 Jan 18 03:39:39
Cheav Villa: អរព្រះគុណ​ព្រះអង្គ​ បាននិមន្តចូលរួមវិភាគទាន នៅទីនេះ _/\_

2019 Jan 18 03:39:00
Cheav Villa: ថ្វាយបង្គំ​ព្រះអង្គ​មុនី :D _/\_

2019 Jan 17 16:22:47
Johann: Bhante Muni  _/\_

2019 Jan 17 12:59:11
Johann: So it's enought or would some broken Khmer Audio be of support, Nyom?

2019 Jan 17 09:20:36
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻អរព្រះគុណព្រះអង្គBhante . ករុណាបានអាមអត្ថបទដែលព្រះអង្គបានផុសជាភាសាអង់គ្លេសនោះ បានយល់ខ្លះៗហេីយ :D :D

2019 Jan 17 06:45:05
Johann: Being become, appeare always where desired Why beings take birth, even in most worse existences and circumstances?

2019 Jan 17 06:41:35
Johann: One becomes and dwells there where one is inclinated (most anusayā), distinguished gross: 1. world, 1. Nibbana.

2019 Jan 17 06:20:33
Cheav Villa: លោកតាទើបចេះពន្យល់ ខ្ញុំ​មិនសូវ​ដឹងឆ្លើយទេ ^-^

2019 Jan 17 06:19:32
Cheav Villa: សូមចូលមកសរសេរសួរលោកតា នៅវត្ត​ កុំសួរតាមMessenger  :D

2019 Jan 17 06:18:35
Cheav Villa: សួស្តី​បងធី​ _/\_

2019 Jan 16 16:33:43
Cheav Villa: Things to read :D

2019 Jan 16 16:27:50
Cheav Villa: Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jan 16 15:28:02
Johann: The Story of Culekasataka (Maha Kassapa and his wife in former life)

2019 Jan 16 15:20:13
Johann: ថ្ងៃ ថ្មី មួូយ ជា ឳកាស ថ្មី មួយ ទៀត។ យើង មិន អាច ដឹង មុន នូវ អ្វី ដែល នឹង កើតឡើង ថ្ងៃ ស្អែក

2019 Jan 16 04:07:43
Khemakumara: Nyom Chanroth

2019 Jan 16 02:09:37
Chanroth: សាធុសាធុសាធុ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jan 16 02:07:10
Johann: ថ្ងៃ ថ្មី មួូយ ជា ឳកាស ថ្មី មួយ ទៀត។ យើង មិន អាច ដឹង មុន នូវ អ្វី ដែល នឹង កើតឡើង ថ្ងៃ ស្អែក

2019 Jan 16 02:06:36
Chanroth: ជំរាបសួរ Moritz

2019 Jan 16 02:06:31
Johann: "Another day, another possibility. We don't know what tomorrow might be."

2019 Jan 15 19:41:08
Khemakumara: Nyom Moritz

2019 Jan 15 19:38:38
Moritz: Vandami Bhante (Khemakumara) _/\_

2019 Jan 15 17:13:16
Johann: Nyom Puthy, maybe this helps: ការរបៀបឆ្លេីយនៅក្នុង website .

2019 Jan 15 16:10:29
Ieng Puthy: ព្រះអង្គករុណាសូមថ្វាយបង្គំុលាសិនហេីយ 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

2019 Jan 15 16:07:58
Ieng Puthy: ករុណាគ្រាន់តែចូលអាន ករុណាមិនទាន់យល់ពីរបៀបឆ្លេីយនៅក្នុងwebsite នៅឡេីយទេ ព្រះអង្គ 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

2019 Jan 15 16:00:58
Johann: How ever one feels inspired, has joy, likes to give into.  How can I use the forum purposefully, for myself, as well as for others?

2019 Jan 15 15:57:55
Johann: No need to use all possibilities for merits for one alone but good to invite others to join and become more independend till free.

2019 Jan 15 15:04:39
Johann: no requirement to do all, merits step by step. "The path to nibbana is hard", they say, and don't do even little steps, Nyom. As inspired, its at least a working and concentration camp, Devas delight in creation, Devas having contr. over the creation of others.

2019 Jan 15 14:53:43
Cheav Villa: ព្រះអង្គការបកប្រែមកជាខ្មែរ  មានខុសច្រើនណាស់  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jan 15 14:49:16
Khemakumara: leng Puthy

2019 Jan 15 14:48:29
Khemakumara: Nyom leng Pitts

2019 Jan 15 14:45:35
Johann: There is a lot of new for many. If the Nyom Ladies like to help in translating here and there a little, it might be easier for khmer-speaking monks to get informed well.

2019 Jan 15 14:25:23
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំុ ព្រះអង្គ Bhante Khemakumara

2019 Jan 15 13:33:34
Khemakumara: Bhante Muni

2019 Jan 15 13:32:47
Khemakumara: Bhante Johann _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jan 15 13:27:53
Johann: Bhante Muni

2019 Jan 15 10:46:40
Johann: But a topic can be opened everywhere and can then be moved.

2019 Jan 15 10:45:27
Johann: There is also a Link to direct Requests for Teachings - link, so things get not lost.

2019 Jan 15 10:44:12
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻ករុណាព្រះអង្គ🙏🏻អរព្រះគុុណ ព្រះអង្គ

2019 Jan 15 10:42:55
Johann: Good place is surely at  Dhammatalks - (dhamma desanā)

2019 Jan 15 10:35:06
Johann: Talkbox is not proper, just for greating and small-talk

2019 Jan 15 10:24:47
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻ព្រះអង្គ តេីមានធម៌អ្វីដែលអាចកំចាត់ធម៌លោភៈល្អិតនៅក្នុងចិត្តបានដែរឬទេ ?ព្រះអង្គ Vandami Banthe 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

2019 Jan 15 10:21:37
Johann: Just open a new topic best, Nyom Puthy (requires some bhava-chanda)

2019 Jan 15 10:17:22
Johann: Nyom Puthy

2019 Jan 15 10:07:10
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំុ ព្រះអង្គ Vandami Banthe

2019 Jan 15 10:01:15
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំុ ព្រះអង្គមុនី! ករុណាមានសំណួរ១អំពី អនុស្ស័យកិលេសមាន៧ គឺ 1-កាមរាគានុស្ស័យ 2-ភវនុស្ស័យ3

2019 Jan 15 09:31:36
Cheav Villa:  :)  _/\_

2019 Jan 15 09:27:54
Chanroth: ខ្ញុំព្រះករុណាសូមថ្វាយបង្គំព្រះអង្គមុន្នី ពីរអាស្រមថ្មទូក_/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jan 15 09:21:46
Chanroth: បាតជំរាបសួរបងស្រី ខ្ញុំមិនទាន់បានធ្វេីនៅឡេីយទេ ពីព្រោះខ្ញុំឈឺ បានធូហេីយ តែមិនទាន់បាត់ថ្លោះករនៅឡេីយ _/\_

2019 Jan 15 08:57:49
Cheav Villa: ថ្វាយបង្គំព្រះអង្គមុនី  _/\_

2019 Jan 15 07:34:19
Johann: Bhante Khemakumara

2019 Jan 15 05:57:47
Cheav Villa: តើពូកំពុងជួយការងារលោកតាមែនទេ?តើនៅអាស្រមមានកង្វះខាតអ្វីទេនៅពេលនេះ

2019 Jan 15 05:54:51
Cheav Villa: ជំរាបសួរពូចាន់រ័ត្ន _/\_

2019 Jan 15 01:12:12
Johann: And "we" wouldn't always know or find out but need to relay on one who know

2019 Jan 15 01:06:48
Johann: There are two kinds of sadness and happiness, of which one of each is conductive for liberation, one not.

2019 Jan 15 01:02:24
Mohan Gnanathilake: May we always be able to find out for ourselves how much attachment we accumulate, and whether this brings us happiness or sorrow! Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2019 Jan 15 01:00:52
Mohan Gnanathilake: Mögen wir immer  selbst herausfinden kӧnnen, wie viel Anhaftung wir anhäufen und ob  diese Anhaftung uns die Frӧhlichkeit oder  die Traurigkeit bringt! Dhamma Grüβe aus Sri Lanka!

2019 Jan 14 13:52:41
Johann: Nyom Puthy. May you all have good Dhamma conversations with each other, don't be shy on that. Atma will go to rest.

2019 Jan 14 13:48:00
Johann: ញោម ចាន់រ័ត្ន

2019 Jan 14 12:49:01
Cheav Villa: អរព្រះគុណព្រះអង្គ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jan 14 12:36:20
Mohan Gnanathilake: May we possess the causes of blissfulness always! Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2019 Jan 14 12:35:18
Mohan Gnanathilake: Mӧgen wir immer die Ursachen der Glückseligkeit besitzen! Dhamma Grüβe  aus Sri Lanka!

2019 Jan 14 10:20:32
Johann: "នាងវិសាខា ក្រាបបង្គំទូលថា ថ្ងៃនេះខ្ញុំម្ចាស់រក្សាឧបោសថៈព្រះអង្គ។"...

2019 Jan 14 09:49:40
Chanroth:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jan 14 06:59:34
Cheav Villa: Jain-Upossathaកូណាមុិនទាន់យល់ន័យនៃពាក្យនេះទេ _/\_

2019 Jan 14 05:12:41
Johann: "មិនមែនជារបស់ខ្លួន"... មែន(sense)ទុក្ខឬមិន? Where?

2019 Jan 14 04:57:55
Johann: Buddha and Savaka do not teach Jain-Uposatha: អ្នកណា​មាទុក្ខ? , Sadhu

2019 Jan 14 04:50:21
Johann: ជាធម៌អសេង្ខបុគ្គល! មានទេមិនមាន ... ការនិយាយអំពីសត្វ។ ធម៌ទាំងអស់មានមូលហេតុ ដូច្នេះ: រឿងដំបូងនៅលើកដំបូង!

2019 Jan 14 04:21:59
Cheav Villa: មិនមែនជារបស់ខ្លួន ជាអនត្តាធម៌ ជាធម៌អសេង្ខបុគ្គល  _/\_

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Author Topic: Wenn gefragt "Wer leidet?", sollte was gesagt werden? | អ្នកណា​មាទុក្ខ?  (Read 1011 times)

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Offline Johann

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Was ja eine oft gestellte Frage ist, und so manche Antwort viele verwirrt. Erfreulich, daß dieses klar von Buddha gegeben zu finden ist:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"And which is the carrier of the burden? 'The person,' it should be said. This venerable one with such a name, such a clan-name. This is called the carrier of the burden.

"Und was ist der Träger der Brüde? 'Die Person', sollte gesagt werden. Dieser Ehrwürdige, mit solch einem Namen, solch einem Klan-Namen. Dieses wird der Träger von Bürde genannt.

[៥០] ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ចុះដូចម្តេច ឈ្មោះថា អ្នកនាំនូវភារៈ។ គប្បីឆ្លើយ​ថា បុគ្គល។ គឺអ្នកមានអាយុនោះ មានឈ្មោះយ៉ាងនេះ មានគោត្រយ៉ាងនេះ។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ នេះឈ្មោះថា អ្នកនាំនូវភារៈ។

Und man mag sich fragen, wie das mit anderem zusammenpaßt.

Wenn da keine Bürde, wer oder was sollte dessen Träger sein?

Wenn da Bürde, aber kein Träger, wie sollte das gehen?

Höchste Wahrheit hat immer mit tat-säch-licher, oder wahrlichem zutun, und nicht irgendwo dazwischen drin, aus davor und danach zusammengeknüpft.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 03:17:19 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: Wenn gefragt "Wer leidet?", sollte was gesagt werden?
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2018, 03:18:25 PM »
Ohh... dieses Sutta alleine zu erwähnen, treibt die Klassiker, Abhidhamma und Kommentarschrift-Gelehrten, blitzartig auf die Barrikaden, und läßt Windmühlen gegen Standpunkte erscheinen. ...als ob der Buddha Sein oder Nichtsein lehren wurde... mag das "mit diesem kommt jenes auf" im Falle von Lebewesen schwierig zu nehmen sein.

(Atmas Einweiser, nach dem Nahebringen des Suttas, wird wohl wieder gute Zeit nicht mit meiner Person sprechen... klassisch Mahavihara geschult. Zum Verständnis, in dieser Schule spricht man oft und gerne, lehrt, "da ist keine Person, kein Wesen", ohne selbst auf eine Bedingung "wenn das aufkommt" einzugehen. Anatta nicht als Strategie sondern als ultimative Wahrheit)

Wie auch immer. Bhante Thanissaro gibt großzügig etwas historischen Einblick und Loslösungsmöglichkeiten, in seinem Kommentar zum Text:

Diese Lehrrede kommt der Lehre über die Vier Edlen Wahrheiten gleich, jedoch mit einer Abweichung. Die "Bürde" wird in gleichen Begriffen definiert, wie die erste Edle Wahrheit, die Wahrheit von Leiden und Streß. Das Aufnehmen der Bürde ist mit gleichen Begriffen, wie die zweite Edle Wahrheit, der Ursprung von Streß, definiert, und das Abwerfen, in gleichen Begriffen, wie die dritte Edle Wahrheit, die Beendigung von Streß. Die vierte Größe jedoch, der Träger der Bürde, hat keinen Gleichlaut in den Vier Edlen Wahrheiten, und hat sich als der umstrittenste Begriff, in der Geschichte der buddhistischen Philosophie, bewährt. Wenn diese Größe als Person (oder Individuum, puggala) beschreibend, legt der Buddha die abstrakte Form, wie bei den anderen Größen, ab, und nutzt gewöhnliche, alltägliche Sprache der Erzählung: die Person mit so und so einem Namen. Und wie wäre diese Person in abstrakterer Größen übersetzt? Dieses sagt er nicht. Doch nach seinem Dahinscheiden, nahmen sich buddhistische Gelehrte an, mit einer Antwort, an Stelle, zu versorgen, und spalteten sich in zwei Hauptlager, zu dieser Angelegenheit. Ein Lager verweigerte das Konzept einer Person, als eine Wahrheit, auf ultimativer Ebene, zu werten. Diese Gruppe inspirierte, was später die klassische Theravada-Position, zu dieser Angelegenheit, wurde: das die "Person" einfach eine konventionelle Bezeichnung für die fünf Ansammlungen war. Doch das andere Lager, welches sich in die Pudgalavadin-Schule (Personisten) entwickelte, sagte, daß die Person weder eine ultimative Wahrheit, noch eine bloße konventionelle Bezeichnung, war, weder identisch noch völlig separat von den fünf Ansammlungen. Diese spezielle Bedeutung von Person, sagten sie, war erforderlich um drei Dinge anzuerkennen: die Kohäsion einer Persons Identität, in dieser Lebensspanne (einer Persons Erinnerung kann nicht zur Erinnerung einer anderen Person werden, zum Beispiel); die einheitliche Natur von Wiedergeburt (eine Person kann nicht an mehreren Plätzen auf einmal wiedergeboren werden); und der Tatsache entsprechend, daß mit der Beendigung der Khandhas, mit dem Tod eines Arahats, er/sie als "das Ferne Ufer" erreichend, besagt wird. Doch, nach diesem Moment, sagten sie, kann nichts weiter über die Person gesagt werden, denn dieses war soweit, wie des Konzeptes beschreibende Kraft, gehen konnte.
Wie auszumalen sein mag, warf die erste Gruppe der zweiten vor, das Konzept von Anatta, oder Nicht-Selbst, abzustreiten; wohingegen die zweite Gruppe der ersten vorwarf, unfähig zu sein, die Wahrheiten, von denen sie sagten, daß deren Konzept Person erklärt, nicht zu werten. Jedoch fanden beide Gruppen, daß deren Position sie in philosophische Schwierigkeiten verstrickte, die niemals erfolgreich bereinigt wurden.

Vielleicht die nützlichste Lektion, um sich auf die Geschichte dieser Meinungsverschiedenheit zu beziehen, ist eine, die mit des Buddhas Aussage in MN 72 einhergeht, wo er es ablehnt sich in Fragen einzubringen, ob eine Person eine lebendige Essenz, getrennt von, oder identisch, zu deren Körper hat, oder ob da nach dem Tod etwas von einem Arahat ist, welches existiert oder nicht. Mit anderen Worten, sind die Fragen es nicht wert gestellt zu werden. Nichts wird damit erreicht, mit dem Annehmen oder Abstreiten einer ultimativen Realität hinter dem, was wir uns über eine Person erdenken. Anstelle ist die Strategie der Ausübung, die Bürde zu verstehen, die wir alle tragen, und sie abzuwerfen. Wie SN 22.36 aufzeigt, wenn jemand aufhört zu versuchen sich zu definieren, ist dieser frei von allen Einschränkungen, und dieses bereinigt alle Fragen.

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"Wenn einer von Bewußtsein besessen bleibt, ist dieses, mit dem einer bemessen wird. Mit was immer einer bemessen ist, ist dieses wie einer eingeteilt wird.

"Aber wenn einer nicht von Form besessen bleibt, Bhikkhu, ist dieses nicht, mit dem einer bemessen wird. Mit was immer einer nicht bemessen ist, ist dieses nicht wie einer eingeteilt wird.

"Wenn einer nicht von Gefühl besessen bleibt...

"Wenn einer nicht von Vorstellung besessen bleibt...

"Wenn einer nicht von Gestaltungen besessen bleibt...

"Wenn einer nicht von Bewußtsein besessen bleibt, ist dieses nicht, mit dem einer bemessen wird. Mit was immer einer nicht bemessen ist, ist dieses nicht wie einer eingeteilt wird.

"Dieses ist, wie die detaillierte Bedeutung, dessen, was ich in Kürze gesagt habe, zu sehen ist."

Nicht zuletzt, und gerade weil es einfach unsinnig und verwirrend, ja gar gefährlich ist, durch die Welt zu laufen, und zu erzählen, daß da keine Lebewesen sind, war der Buddha in doeser Sache sehr klar, wie sich die Bhikkhus (abseits "persönlicher" Ideen, auszudrücken haben), und die Aussage von Buddhagosa im Vissudhimagga, sinngemäß "da sind Taten, aber kein Täter zu finden", sollte zum einen nicht Buddhas Anweisung in Frage stellen, und ist, wenn umsichtig betrachtet werden wollend, als ein Gedanke eines Arahats (jemandem, der die Bürde abgeworfen hat) zu sehen, obgleich es eigentlich eine dem wiedersprechende Aussage ist, da ja von Tat (kamma) sprechend. Kurz, wo ein Täter (Unwissenheit, Dünkel) da auch kamma, wo Unwissenheit, Dünkel entwurzelt, keine Bürde, keine Tat (kamma, d.h. Handlung die auf einen zurück fällt).

Es macht keinen Sinn auf der Einen Seite sich klar zu sein, dam wo Anhaftung an die Ansammlungen getan wird, ein Lebewesen ist, und gleichzeitig zu sagen, daß da aber ultimativ keines ist. Der Buddha sich aus gutem Grund nicht dazu äußernd, warum denkt man, klüger sein zu können, müssen, als dieser? Aber das ist wohl "nur" eine Frage des Überwindens von Persönlichkeits-Ansichten: schwierig.

Dies nur ein paar Hacken, für jene, die gerne ihre Zeit mit philosophischen Gebilden bauen vertreiben anstelle die Bürde mit Vorstellung, Gestaltungen, Wissen am Verstand und Empfindungen mit dem Gegenstand dessen, abzuwerfen.

Anumodana!
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 03:45:17 PM by Johann »
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Re: Wenn gefragt "Wer leidet?", sollte was gesagt werden?
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2018, 02:28:55 PM »

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

..."From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications. Whether or not there is the arising of Tathagatas, this property stands — this regularity of the Dhamma, this orderliness of the Dhamma, this this/that conditionality. The Tathagata directly awakens to that, breaks through to that. Directly awakening & breaking through to that, he declares it, teaches it, describes it, sets it forth. He reveals it, explains it, makes it plain, & says, 'Look.' From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications. What's there in this way is a reality, not an unreality, not other than what it seems, conditioned by this/that. This is called dependent co-arising...

"Ignorance is a dependently co-arisen phenomenon: inconstant, compounded, dependently co-arisen, subject to ending, subject to passing away, subject to fading, subject to cessation. These are called dependently co-arisen phenomena.

"When a disciple of the noble ones has seen well with right discernment this dependent co-arising & these dependently co-arisen phenomena as they have come to be, it is not possible that he would run after the past, thinking, 'Was I in the past? Was I not in the past? What was I in the past? How was I in the past? Having been what, what was I in the past?' or that he would run after the future, thinking, 'Shall I be in the future? Shall I not be in the future? What shall I be in the future? How shall I be in the future? Having been what, what shall I be in the future?' or that he would be inwardly perplexed about the immediate present, thinking, 'Am I? Am I not? What am I? How am I? Where has this being come from? Where is it bound?' Such a thing is not possible. Why is that? Because the disciple of the noble ones has seen well with right discernment this dependent co-arising & these dependently co-arisen phenomena as they have come to be."


..."Von Unwissenheit, als eine erforderliche Bedingung, kommen Gestaltungen. Gleich ob da das Aufkommen eines Tathagatas ist, oder nicht, diese Beschaffenheit steht, diese Regelmäßigkeit des Dhammas, diese Ordentlichkeit des Dhammas, diese dieses/jenes Bedingtheit. Der Tathagata, direkt erwacht zu diesem, bricht dazu hindurch. Direkt erwachend und dazu durchbrechend, legt es es dar, lehrt es, beschreibt es, treibt es an. Er legt es frei, erklärt es, macht es klau, und sagt: 'Schau'. Von Unwissenheit, als eine erforderliche Bedingung, kommen Gestaltungen. Was da in dieser Weise ist, ist eine Realität, kein Unreales, nicht anderes, als was es erscheint, bedingt von diesem/jenen. Dieses wird Bedingtes Mitaufkommen genannt...

..."Unwissenheit ist eine bedingte mitaufkommende Erscheinung: unbeständig, zusammengesetzt, bedingt mitaufkommend, Gegenstand des Endens, Gegenstand des Dahinscheidens, Gegenstand des Schwindens, Gegenstand der Beendigung. Diese werden bedingt mitaufkommende Erscheinungen genannt.

"Wenn ein Schüler der Noblen, gut, mit rechter Einsicht, dieses Bedingte Mitaufkommen und diese bedingten mitaufkommenden Erscheinungen, gesehen hat, so wie sie ins Bestehen gekommen sind, ist es nicht möglich, daß er hinter Vergangenem nachläuft, denken: 'War ich in der Vergangenheit? War ich in der Vergangenheit nicht? Was war ich in der Vergangenheit? Wie war ich in der Vergangenheit? Etwas gewesen seiend, was war ich in der Vergangenheit?', oder, daß er der Zukunft nachlaufen würde, denken: 'Werde ich in der Zukunft sein? Werde ich in der Zukunft nicht sein? Was soll ich in der Zukunft sein? Wie soll ich in der Zukunft sein? Etwas gewesen seiend, was werde ich in der Zukunft sein?', oder, daß er innerlich perplex über die unmittelbare Gegenwart wäre, denken: 'Bin ich? Bin ich nicht? Was bin ich? Wie bin ich? Wo ist dieses Sein/Wesen her gekommen? Woran ist es gebunden?'. Solch eine Sache ist nicht möglich. Warum ist das? Weil der Schüler der Noblen, gut, mit recher Einsicht, dieses Bedingte Mitaufkommen, diese bedingt mitaufkommenden Erscheinungen, gesehen hat, so wie sie ins Bestehen gekommen sind."


សំយុត្តនិកាយោ - និទានវគ្គ - ២. អាហារវគ្គោ - ១០. បច្ចយសុត្តំ (ភាគ ទី ៣១)

... [៦១] ព្រះមានព្រះភាគទ្រង់ត្រាស់ ដូច្នេះថា ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ចុះបដិច្ចសមុប្បាទធម៌ តើដូចម្តេច ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ជរា មរណៈកើតមាន ព្រោះជាតិ​ជាបច្ច័យ ព្រះតថាគត កើតឡើងក្តី ព្រះតថាគត មិនទាន់​កើតឡើងក្តី ធាតុ [សភាពនៃ​ធម៌ ដែលជាតួបច្ច័យ ហៅថា ធាតុ។] នោះ ធម្មដ្ឋិតិ [ធម៌កើតឡើងអំពីបច្ច័យ អាស្រ័យគ្នា ហើយឋិតនៅ ហៅថា ធម្មដ្ឋិតិ។] នោះ ធម្មនិយាម [បច្ច័យដែលកំណត់នូវធម៌ ហៅថា ធម្មនិយាម។] នោះ ឥទប្បច្ច័យ [បច្ច័យនៃធម៌ មានជរាមរណៈ ជាដើមនេះ ហៅថា ឥទប្បច្ច័យ។] នោះ តែង​ឋិតនៅជាធម្មតា តថាគត ត្រាស់ដឹង យល់ច្បាស់នូវបច្ច័យនោះ លុះត្រាស់ដឹង យល់ច្បាស់ហើយ ទើបប្រាប់​សំដែង ពន្យល់ តែងតាំង បើកបង្ហាញ ចែករលែក ធ្វើឲ្យរាក់ ហើយប្រាប់ថែមថា អ្នកទាំងឡាយ ចូរមើលចុះ។...

ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ អវិជ្ជា មិនទៀង ជាធម្មជាតិដែលបច្ច័យប្រជុំតាក់តែង កើត​ព្រោះអាស្រ័យបច្ច័យ ជាធម្មជាតិ​តែងអស់ជាធម្មតា សូន្យជាធម្មតា វិនាសជាធម្មតា រលត់​ជាធម្មតា។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ធម៌ទាំងនេះហៅថា បដិច្ចសមុប្បន្នធម៌។
[៦៣] ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ កាលណា អរិយសាវ័កបានឃើញ នូវ​បដិច្ចសមុប្បាទធម៌នេះផង នូវបដិច្ចសមុប្បន្នធម៌នេះផង ដោយប្រពៃ ដោយប្រាជ្ញា ដ៏​ឧត្តម តាមពិត អរិយសាវ័កនោះ នឹងពិចារណារកទីបំផុតខាងដើម គឺខន្ធក្នុងអតីតកាលថា អាត្មាអញ បានកើតហើយក្នុងអតីតកាលដែរឬហ្ន៎ អាត្មាអញ មិនបានកើតក្នុងអតីតកាលទេឬហ្ន៎ អាត្មាអញបានកើតហើយក្នុងអតីតកាល ដូចម្តេចហ្ន៎ អាត្មាអញ បានកើតហើយក្នុងអតីតកាល ដោយប្រការដូចម្តេចហ្ន៎ អាត្មាអញកើតជាអ្វី ហើយបានកើតជាអ្វី ក្នុងអតីតកាលហ្ន៎ ដូច្នេះក្តី ពិចារណារកនូវទីបំផុតខាងចុង គឺខន្ធ​ក្នុងអនាគតកាលថា អាត្មាអញ នឹងកើតក្នុងអនាគតកាលដែរឬហ្ន៎ អាត្មាអញ នឹងមិនកើតក្នុងអនាគតកាលទេឬហ្ន៎ អាត្មាអញ នឹងកើតក្នុងអនាគតកាល ដូចម្តេចហ្ន៎ អាត្មាអញ នឹងកើតក្នុងអនាគតកាល ដោយប្រការដូចម្តេចហ្ន៎ អាត្មាអញ នឹងកើតជាអ្វី ហើយកើតជាអ្វី ទៅក្នុងអនាគតកាលហ្ន៎ ដូច្នេះក្តី នឹងមានសេចក្តីងឿងឆ្ងល់ ចំពោះ​ខន្ធ​ខាងក្នុង (ខន្ធរបស់ខ្លួន) ក្នុងបច្ចុប្បន្នកាលឥឡូវនេះថា អាត្មាអញ មានដែរឬហ្ន៎ អាត្មាអញ មិនមានទេឬហ្ន៎ អាត្មាអញ មានដូចម្តេចហ្ន៎ អាត្មាអញ មានដោយប្រការដូចម្តេចទៅហ្ន៎ សត្វនេះមកពីណាហ្ន៎ សត្វនោះនឹងទៅកើតក្នុងទីណាហ្ន៎ ដូច្នេះក្តី ហេតុនេះ រមែង​មិនមាន​ឡើយ ដំណើរនោះ តើព្រោះហេតុដូចម្តេច ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ព្រោះថា ព្រះអរិយសាវ័កបានឃើញ នូវបដិច្ចសមុប្បាទធម៌នេះផង នូវបដិច្ចសមុប្បន្នធម៌នេះផង ដោយប្រពៃ ដោយប្រាជ្ញាដ៏ឧត្តមតាមពិត។

Und das dieses "gesehen hat", eine Moment für Moment-Sache ist, ist im Bezug auf, was es mit Ideen einer "Lebenszeit bedingtem Mitaufkommen" auf sich hat, so gesehen/nicht wirklich einsehbar.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 03:10:36 PM by Johann »
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