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Talkbox

Like when enter or join, a shrine, another's sphere, or back: good for greating, bye, veneration, short talks, quick help. Some infos on regards .


2024 Mar 18 21:42:50
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 18 19:43:59
Dhammañāṇa: Mudita, Nyom.

2024 Mar 18 19:36:35
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Undertaking this Sila day at my best.

2024 Mar 18 06:17:10
Dhammañāṇa: Those who undertake the Sila day today: may it be of much metta.

2024 Mar 18 02:16:41
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 17 21:09:31
អរិយវង្ស: 🚬🚬🚬

2024 Mar 17 06:30:53
Dhammañāṇa: Metta-full Sila day, those after it today.

2024 Mar 17 00:02:34
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 11 09:16:04
Dhammañāṇa: Once totally caught by google, AI and machines, every door has been closed for long, long term.

2024 Mar 11 09:14:04
Dhammañāṇa: People at large just wait that another would do his/her duty. Once a slight door to run back, they are gone. By going again just for debts, the wheel of running away turns on.

2024 Mar 10 18:59:10
Dhammañāṇa: Less are those who don't use the higher Dhamma not for defilement-defence, less those who don't throw the basics away and turn back to sensuality "with ease".

2024 Mar 10 06:51:11
Dhammañāṇa: A auspicious new-moon Uposatha for those observing it today.

2024 Mar 09 06:34:39
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed New-moon Uposatha, and birth reminder day of a monarchy of wonders.

2024 Mar 08 21:39:54
Dhammañāṇa: The best way to keep an Ashram silent is to put always duties and Sila high. If wishing it populated, put meditation (eating) on the first place.

2024 Mar 03 21:27:27
Dhammañāṇa: May those undertaking the Sila day today, spend it off in best ways, similar those who go after the days purpose tomorrow.

2024 Feb 25 22:10:33
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 24 06:42:35
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Māgha Pūjā and Full moon Uposatha with much reason for good recallings of goodness.

2024 Feb 24 01:50:55
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 23 06:39:57
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom

2024 Feb 23 00:19:58
blazer: Taken flu again... at least leg pain has been better managed since many weeks and it's the greatest benefit. Hope Bhante Dhammañāṇa is fine  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 18 01:06:43
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 18 00:02:37
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 17 18:47:31
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed rest of todays Sila-day.

2024 Feb 17 18:46:59
Dhammañāṇa: Chau Marco, chau...

2024 Feb 16 23:32:59
blazer: Just ended important burocratic and medical stuff. I will check for a flight for Cambodia soon  _/\_

2024 Feb 09 16:08:32
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 09 12:17:31
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 09 06:42:17
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a blessed New moon Uposatha and last day of the Chinese year of the rabbit, entering the Year of the Naga wisely.

2024 Feb 02 21:17:28
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 02 19:53:28
Dhammañāṇa: May all have the possibility to spend a pleasing rest of Sila day, having given goodness and spend a faultless day.

2024 Jan 26 14:40:25
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 25 10:02:46
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a blessed Full moon Uposatha.

2024 Jan 11 06:37:21
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 07 06:31:20
Dhammañāṇa: May many, by skilful deeds,  go for real and lasting independence today

2024 Jan 06 18:00:36
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 04 16:57:17
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 04 12:33:08
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Sila-day, full of metta in thoughts, speech and deeds.

2023 Dec 30 20:21:07
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 27 23:18:38
Dhammañāṇa: May the rest of a bright full moon Uposatha serve many as a blessed day of good deeds.

2023 Dec 26 23:12:17
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 24 16:52:50
Dhammañāṇa: May all who celebrated the birth of their prophet, declaring them his ideas of reaching the Brahma realm, spend peaceful days with family and reflect the goodness near around them, virtuous, generously.

2023 Dec 20 21:36:37
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 20 06:54:09
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Sila day, by conducting in peacefull manners.

2023 Dec 12 23:45:24
blazer:  _/\_

2023 Dec 12 20:34:26
Dhammañāṇa: choice, yes  :)

2023 Dec 12 13:23:35
blazer: If meaning freedom of choice i understand and agree

2023 Dec 12 12:48:42
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 12 06:13:23
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a great New Moon Uposatha, following the conducts of the Arahats.

2023 Dec 10 12:51:16
Dhammañāṇa: The more freedom of joice, the more troubled in regard of what's right, what's wrong. My person does not say that people at large are prepared for freedom of joice even a little.

2023 Dec 10 10:59:42
blazer: Hope they eat more mindfully than how they talk. It is clear for the gross food, we had more than a talk about this topic. I have put so much effort in mindful eating at the temple, but when i was back i wanted more refined food. I was used to get a choice of more than 10 dishes every day

2023 Dec 10 06:57:44
Dhammañāṇa: A person eating on unskilled thoughts will last defiled, Nyom. Gross food does nothing for purification at all.

2023 Dec 09 21:41:58
blazer: I've had a couple of not nice experiences with monks that were not so pure in my opinion. They surely eat far better than me at temple.

2023 Dec 09 21:41:41
blazer: Ven. Johann  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 09 11:38:36
Dhammañāṇa: Spiritual prostitution, just another way of livelihood.

2023 Dec 05 20:59:38
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a pleasing rest of Sila-day.

2023 Nov 27 14:47:22
អរិយវង្ស:   _/\_ _/\__/\_

2023 Nov 27 05:41:32
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a blessed Anapanasati- Fullmoon and reflect the goodness of Ven Sāriputta as well today.

2023 Nov 20 19:18:13
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 20 18:20:15
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a pleasing rest of Sila-day.

2023 Nov 20 02:48:24
Moritz: Hello _/\_ Still possible to join: An-other Journey into the East 2023/24

2023 Nov 18 13:55:11
blazer: Hello everyone  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 12 01:09:01
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom

2023 Nov 12 00:45:21
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 09 19:42:10
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 09 07:17:02
Dhammañāṇa: សិលា​នាំ​ទៅ​រក​ឯករាជ្យ​នៃ​ជាតិ! សូមឱ្យមនុស្សជាច្រើនប្រារព្ធទិវាឯករាជ្យ(ពី)ជាតិ។

2023 Nov 09 07:06:56
Dhammañāṇa: Sila leads to independence of Jati! May many observe a conductive Independence day.

2023 Nov 07 00:54:02
Dhammañāṇa: Nyoum

2023 Nov 07 00:39:55
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 06 15:47:51
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 06 12:21:27
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Sila observation day today.

2023 Oct 30 15:17:36
Dhammañāṇa: It's common in to give up that what's given to do assist me toward release, common that seeking security in what binds.

2023 Oct 30 13:22:27
អរិយវង្ស: ព្រះអង្គ :) កូណាលុប delta chat ហើយ :D _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Oct 23 18:56:09
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Oct 22 20:36:01
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a pleasing rest of this Sila-day.

2023 Oct 19 20:31:12
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom Sreyneang

2023 Oct 15 07:07:01
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Oct 14 06:53:21
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a New moon Uposatha based on goodwill for all, find seclusion in the middle of family duties.

2023 Sep 29 07:35:30
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 29 07:23:47
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 29 07:03:11
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed full moon Uposatha and begin of the ancestor weeks by lived metta and virtue: lived gratitude toward all being, toward one self.

2023 Sep 22 22:07:43
Dhammañāṇa: If no rush turn toward reducing sensuality and make Silas the top of priority, it's to fear that an Atomic conflic will be chosen soon, in the battle of control of the "drugs".

2023 Sep 22 14:59:39
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 22 06:35:51
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Uposatha Observance on this Sila-day, by conducting similar the Arahats.

2023 Sep 16 19:29:27
blazer: Ven. Johann  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 16 19:29:13
blazer: Hello everyone! I've just come back home. I had a long trip and no sleep for more than 30 hours, but currently feel quite good. I've had a good experience, i'm happy. I've found out much inspiration and many ideas about the training and the holy life. I'll recollect and write about them as soon as i've taken some rest. Hope to find you all well and in good health  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 15 05:25:24
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 14 21:09:49
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed rest of New moon Uposatha today (later as no connection before).

2023 Sep 10 01:55:47
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_?

2023 Sep 09 18:52:54
Dhammañāṇa: No existence, no 'way of life', can excel the finally journey, just 'busy' in given away all of what ever made one's own. A total remorse-less existence. May many go for it, and see the way toward the deathless, no more worry of past, future and present as well.

2023 Sep 09 18:52:28
Dhammañāṇa: No existence, no 'way of life', can excel the finally journey, just 'busy' in given away all of what ever made one's own. A total remorse-less existence. May many go for it, and see the way toward the deathless, no more worry of past, future and present as well.

2023 Sep 08 06:19:20
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Sila day, by maintaining goodwill toward all, not only by deeds and speech, but with nine factors, incl. a mind full of metta.

2023 Sep 01 10:54:43
អរិយវង្ស: សាធុ សាធុ សាធុ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 01 09:21:09
Dhammañāṇa:  “This verse was stated by earlier worthy ones, fully self-awakened:    Freedom from disease: the foremost good fortune. Unbinding: the foremost ease. The eightfold: the foremost of paths going to the Deathless, Secure.

2023 Sep 01 09:19:23
Dhammañāṇa: 'Ārogyaparamā lābhā nibbānaṃ paramaṃ sukhaṃ, Aṭṭhaṅgiko ca maggānaṃ khemaṃ amatagāmina'nti.   អារោគ្យបរមា លាភា និព្ពានំ បរមំ សុខំ អដ្ថងិកោ ច មគ្គានំ ខេមំ អមតគាមិន នតិ។  លាភទាំងឡាយ មានការមិនមានរោគ ដ៏ប្រសើរបំផុត ព្រះនិព្វាន ជាសុខដ៏ឧត្តម មគ្គប្រកបដោយអង្គ៨ ដ៏ក្សេមក្សាន្តជាងមគ្គទាំងឡាយ សម្រាប់ដំណើរ ទៅកាន់​ព្រះនិព្វាន ឈ្មោះអមតៈ។

2023 Aug 31 06:30:11
អរិយវង្ស: សាធុ សាធុ សាធុ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Aug 31 06:08:15
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Fullmoon Uposatha, following the Arahats conducts.

2023 Aug 30 20:19:25
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom

2023 Aug 30 18:39:38
blazer: Hello everyone  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Aug 24 19:56:43
Dhammañāṇa: Sadhu, Sadhu and mudita

2023 Aug 24 19:45:08
អរិយវង្ស: កូណា បាននាំគ្រួសាររក្សាសីល8ក្នុងថ្ងៃនេះ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_😌

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Author Topic: Wenn gefragt "Wer leidet?", sollte was gesagt werden? | អ្នកណា​មាទុក្ខ?  (Read 2182 times)

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Offline Dhammañāṇa

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  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527 Upasampadā 20240110
Was ja eine oft gestellte Frage ist, und so manche Antwort viele verwirrt. Erfreulich, daß dieses klar von Buddha gegeben zu finden ist:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"And which is the carrier of the burden? 'The person,' it should be said. This venerable one with such a name, such a clan-name. This is called the carrier of the burden.

"Und was ist der Träger der Brüde? 'Die Person', sollte gesagt werden. Dieser Ehrwürdige, mit solch einem Namen, solch einem Klan-Namen. Dieses wird der Träger von Bürde genannt.

[៥០] ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ចុះដូចម្តេច ឈ្មោះថា អ្នកនាំនូវភារៈ។ គប្បីឆ្លើយ​ថា បុគ្គល។ គឺអ្នកមានអាយុនោះ មានឈ្មោះយ៉ាងនេះ មានគោត្រយ៉ាងនេះ។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ នេះឈ្មោះថា អ្នកនាំនូវភារៈ។

Und man mag sich fragen, wie das mit anderem zusammenpaßt.

Wenn da keine Bürde, wer oder was sollte dessen Träger sein?

Wenn da Bürde, aber kein Träger, wie sollte das gehen?

Höchste Wahrheit hat immer mit tat-säch-licher, oder wahrlichem zutun, und nicht irgendwo dazwischen drin, aus davor und danach zusammengeknüpft.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 09:17:19 PM by Johann »
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Re: Wenn gefragt "Wer leidet?", sollte was gesagt werden?
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2018, 09:18:25 PM »
Ohh... dieses Sutta alleine zu erwähnen, treibt die Klassiker, Abhidhamma und Kommentarschrift-Gelehrten, blitzartig auf die Barrikaden, und läßt Windmühlen gegen Standpunkte erscheinen. ...als ob der Buddha Sein oder Nichtsein lehren wurde... mag das "mit diesem kommt jenes auf" im Falle von Lebewesen schwierig zu nehmen sein.

(Atmas Einweiser, nach dem Nahebringen des Suttas, wird wohl wieder gute Zeit nicht mit meiner Person sprechen... klassisch Mahavihara geschult. Zum Verständnis, in dieser Schule spricht man oft und gerne, lehrt, "da ist keine Person, kein Wesen", ohne selbst auf eine Bedingung "wenn das aufkommt" einzugehen. Anatta nicht als Strategie sondern als ultimative Wahrheit)

Wie auch immer. Bhante Thanissaro gibt großzügig etwas historischen Einblick und Loslösungsmöglichkeiten, in seinem Kommentar zum Text:

Diese Lehrrede kommt der Lehre über die Vier Edlen Wahrheiten gleich, jedoch mit einer Abweichung. Die "Bürde" wird in gleichen Begriffen definiert, wie die erste Edle Wahrheit, die Wahrheit von Leiden und Streß. Das Aufnehmen der Bürde ist mit gleichen Begriffen, wie die zweite Edle Wahrheit, der Ursprung von Streß, definiert, und das Abwerfen, in gleichen Begriffen, wie die dritte Edle Wahrheit, die Beendigung von Streß. Die vierte Größe jedoch, der Träger der Bürde, hat keinen Gleichlaut in den Vier Edlen Wahrheiten, und hat sich als der umstrittenste Begriff, in der Geschichte der buddhistischen Philosophie, bewährt. Wenn diese Größe als Person (oder Individuum, puggala) beschreibend, legt der Buddha die abstrakte Form, wie bei den anderen Größen, ab, und nutzt gewöhnliche, alltägliche Sprache der Erzählung: die Person mit so und so einem Namen. Und wie wäre diese Person in abstrakterer Größen übersetzt? Dieses sagt er nicht. Doch nach seinem Dahinscheiden, nahmen sich buddhistische Gelehrte an, mit einer Antwort, an Stelle, zu versorgen, und spalteten sich in zwei Hauptlager, zu dieser Angelegenheit. Ein Lager verweigerte das Konzept einer Person, als eine Wahrheit, auf ultimativer Ebene, zu werten. Diese Gruppe inspirierte, was später die klassische Theravada-Position, zu dieser Angelegenheit, wurde: das die "Person" einfach eine konventionelle Bezeichnung für die fünf Ansammlungen war. Doch das andere Lager, welches sich in die Pudgalavadin-Schule (Personisten) entwickelte, sagte, daß die Person weder eine ultimative Wahrheit, noch eine bloße konventionelle Bezeichnung, war, weder identisch noch völlig separat von den fünf Ansammlungen. Diese spezielle Bedeutung von Person, sagten sie, war erforderlich um drei Dinge anzuerkennen: die Kohäsion einer Persons Identität, in dieser Lebensspanne (einer Persons Erinnerung kann nicht zur Erinnerung einer anderen Person werden, zum Beispiel); die einheitliche Natur von Wiedergeburt (eine Person kann nicht an mehreren Plätzen auf einmal wiedergeboren werden); und der Tatsache entsprechend, daß mit der Beendigung der Khandhas, mit dem Tod eines Arahats, er/sie als "das Ferne Ufer" erreichend, besagt wird. Doch, nach diesem Moment, sagten sie, kann nichts weiter über die Person gesagt werden, denn dieses war soweit, wie des Konzeptes beschreibende Kraft, gehen konnte.
Wie auszumalen sein mag, warf die erste Gruppe der zweiten vor, das Konzept von Anatta, oder Nicht-Selbst, abzustreiten; wohingegen die zweite Gruppe der ersten vorwarf, unfähig zu sein, die Wahrheiten, von denen sie sagten, daß deren Konzept Person erklärt, nicht zu werten. Jedoch fanden beide Gruppen, daß deren Position sie in philosophische Schwierigkeiten verstrickte, die niemals erfolgreich bereinigt wurden.

Vielleicht die nützlichste Lektion, um sich auf die Geschichte dieser Meinungsverschiedenheit zu beziehen, ist eine, die mit des Buddhas Aussage in MN 72 einhergeht, wo er es ablehnt sich in Fragen einzubringen, ob eine Person eine lebendige Essenz, getrennt von, oder identisch, zu deren Körper hat, oder ob da nach dem Tod etwas von einem Arahat ist, welches existiert oder nicht. Mit anderen Worten, sind die Fragen es nicht wert gestellt zu werden. Nichts wird damit erreicht, mit dem Annehmen oder Abstreiten einer ultimativen Realität hinter dem, was wir uns über eine Person erdenken. Anstelle ist die Strategie der Ausübung, die Bürde zu verstehen, die wir alle tragen, und sie abzuwerfen. Wie SN 22.36 aufzeigt, wenn jemand aufhört zu versuchen sich zu definieren, ist dieser frei von allen Einschränkungen, und dieses bereinigt alle Fragen.

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"Wenn einer von Bewußtsein besessen bleibt, ist dieses, mit dem einer bemessen wird. Mit was immer einer bemessen ist, ist dieses wie einer eingeteilt wird.

"Aber wenn einer nicht von Form besessen bleibt, Bhikkhu, ist dieses nicht, mit dem einer bemessen wird. Mit was immer einer nicht bemessen ist, ist dieses nicht wie einer eingeteilt wird.

"Wenn einer nicht von Gefühl besessen bleibt...

"Wenn einer nicht von Vorstellung besessen bleibt...

"Wenn einer nicht von Gestaltungen besessen bleibt...

"Wenn einer nicht von Bewußtsein besessen bleibt, ist dieses nicht, mit dem einer bemessen wird. Mit was immer einer nicht bemessen ist, ist dieses nicht wie einer eingeteilt wird.

"Dieses ist, wie die detaillierte Bedeutung, dessen, was ich in Kürze gesagt habe, zu sehen ist."

Nicht zuletzt, und gerade weil es einfach unsinnig und verwirrend, ja gar gefährlich ist, durch die Welt zu laufen, und zu erzählen, daß da keine Lebewesen sind, war der Buddha in doeser Sache sehr klar, wie sich die Bhikkhus (abseits "persönlicher" Ideen, auszudrücken haben), und die Aussage von Buddhagosa im Vissudhimagga, sinngemäß "da sind Taten, aber kein Täter zu finden", sollte zum einen nicht Buddhas Anweisung in Frage stellen, und ist, wenn umsichtig betrachtet werden wollend, als ein Gedanke eines Arahats (jemandem, der die Bürde abgeworfen hat) zu sehen, obgleich es eigentlich eine dem wiedersprechende Aussage ist, da ja von Tat (kamma) sprechend. Kurz, wo ein Täter (Unwissenheit, Dünkel) da auch kamma, wo Unwissenheit, Dünkel entwurzelt, keine Bürde, keine Tat (kamma, d.h. Handlung die auf einen zurück fällt).

Es macht keinen Sinn auf der Einen Seite sich klar zu sein, dam wo Anhaftung an die Ansammlungen getan wird, ein Lebewesen ist, und gleichzeitig zu sagen, daß da aber ultimativ keines ist. Der Buddha sich aus gutem Grund nicht dazu äußernd, warum denkt man, klüger sein zu können, müssen, als dieser? Aber das ist wohl "nur" eine Frage des Überwindens von Persönlichkeits-Ansichten: schwierig.

Dies nur ein paar Hacken, für jene, die gerne ihre Zeit mit philosophischen Gebilden bauen vertreiben anstelle die Bürde mit Vorstellung, Gestaltungen, Wissen am Verstand und Empfindungen mit dem Gegenstand dessen, abzuwerfen.

Anumodana!
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 09:45:17 PM by Johann »
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Re: Wenn gefragt "Wer leidet?", sollte was gesagt werden?
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2018, 08:28:55 PM »

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

..."From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications. Whether or not there is the arising of Tathagatas, this property stands — this regularity of the Dhamma, this orderliness of the Dhamma, this this/that conditionality. The Tathagata directly awakens to that, breaks through to that. Directly awakening & breaking through to that, he declares it, teaches it, describes it, sets it forth. He reveals it, explains it, makes it plain, & says, 'Look.' From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications. What's there in this way is a reality, not an unreality, not other than what it seems, conditioned by this/that. This is called dependent co-arising...

"Ignorance is a dependently co-arisen phenomenon: inconstant, compounded, dependently co-arisen, subject to ending, subject to passing away, subject to fading, subject to cessation. These are called dependently co-arisen phenomena.

"When a disciple of the noble ones has seen well with right discernment this dependent co-arising & these dependently co-arisen phenomena as they have come to be, it is not possible that he would run after the past, thinking, 'Was I in the past? Was I not in the past? What was I in the past? How was I in the past? Having been what, what was I in the past?' or that he would run after the future, thinking, 'Shall I be in the future? Shall I not be in the future? What shall I be in the future? How shall I be in the future? Having been what, what shall I be in the future?' or that he would be inwardly perplexed about the immediate present, thinking, 'Am I? Am I not? What am I? How am I? Where has this being come from? Where is it bound?' Such a thing is not possible. Why is that? Because the disciple of the noble ones has seen well with right discernment this dependent co-arising & these dependently co-arisen phenomena as they have come to be."


..."Von Unwissenheit, als eine erforderliche Bedingung, kommen Gestaltungen. Gleich ob da das Aufkommen eines Tathagatas ist, oder nicht, diese Beschaffenheit steht, diese Regelmäßigkeit des Dhammas, diese Ordentlichkeit des Dhammas, diese dieses/jenes Bedingtheit. Der Tathagata, direkt erwacht zu diesem, bricht dazu hindurch. Direkt erwachend und dazu durchbrechend, legt es es dar, lehrt es, beschreibt es, treibt es an. Er legt es frei, erklärt es, macht es klau, und sagt: 'Schau'. Von Unwissenheit, als eine erforderliche Bedingung, kommen Gestaltungen. Was da in dieser Weise ist, ist eine Realität, kein Unreales, nicht anderes, als was es erscheint, bedingt von diesem/jenen. Dieses wird Bedingtes Mitaufkommen genannt...

..."Unwissenheit ist eine bedingte mitaufkommende Erscheinung: unbeständig, zusammengesetzt, bedingt mitaufkommend, Gegenstand des Endens, Gegenstand des Dahinscheidens, Gegenstand des Schwindens, Gegenstand der Beendigung. Diese werden bedingt mitaufkommende Erscheinungen genannt.

"Wenn ein Schüler der Noblen, gut, mit rechter Einsicht, dieses Bedingte Mitaufkommen und diese bedingten mitaufkommenden Erscheinungen, gesehen hat, so wie sie ins Bestehen gekommen sind, ist es nicht möglich, daß er hinter Vergangenem nachläuft, denken: 'War ich in der Vergangenheit? War ich in der Vergangenheit nicht? Was war ich in der Vergangenheit? Wie war ich in der Vergangenheit? Etwas gewesen seiend, was war ich in der Vergangenheit?', oder, daß er der Zukunft nachlaufen würde, denken: 'Werde ich in der Zukunft sein? Werde ich in der Zukunft nicht sein? Was soll ich in der Zukunft sein? Wie soll ich in der Zukunft sein? Etwas gewesen seiend, was werde ich in der Zukunft sein?', oder, daß er innerlich perplex über die unmittelbare Gegenwart wäre, denken: 'Bin ich? Bin ich nicht? Was bin ich? Wie bin ich? Wo ist dieses Sein/Wesen her gekommen? Woran ist es gebunden?'. Solch eine Sache ist nicht möglich. Warum ist das? Weil der Schüler der Noblen, gut, mit recher Einsicht, dieses Bedingte Mitaufkommen, diese bedingt mitaufkommenden Erscheinungen, gesehen hat, so wie sie ins Bestehen gekommen sind."


សំយុត្តនិកាយោ - និទានវគ្គ - ២. អាហារវគ្គោ - ១០. បច្ចយសុត្តំ (ភាគ ទី ៣១)

... [៦១] ព្រះមានព្រះភាគទ្រង់ត្រាស់ ដូច្នេះថា ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ចុះបដិច្ចសមុប្បាទធម៌ តើដូចម្តេច ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ជរា មរណៈកើតមាន ព្រោះជាតិ​ជាបច្ច័យ ព្រះតថាគត កើតឡើងក្តី ព្រះតថាគត មិនទាន់​កើតឡើងក្តី ធាតុ [សភាពនៃ​ធម៌ ដែលជាតួបច្ច័យ ហៅថា ធាតុ។] នោះ ធម្មដ្ឋិតិ [ធម៌កើតឡើងអំពីបច្ច័យ អាស្រ័យគ្នា ហើយឋិតនៅ ហៅថា ធម្មដ្ឋិតិ។] នោះ ធម្មនិយាម [បច្ច័យដែលកំណត់នូវធម៌ ហៅថា ធម្មនិយាម។] នោះ ឥទប្បច្ច័យ [បច្ច័យនៃធម៌ មានជរាមរណៈ ជាដើមនេះ ហៅថា ឥទប្បច្ច័យ។] នោះ តែង​ឋិតនៅជាធម្មតា តថាគត ត្រាស់ដឹង យល់ច្បាស់នូវបច្ច័យនោះ លុះត្រាស់ដឹង យល់ច្បាស់ហើយ ទើបប្រាប់​សំដែង ពន្យល់ តែងតាំង បើកបង្ហាញ ចែករលែក ធ្វើឲ្យរាក់ ហើយប្រាប់ថែមថា អ្នកទាំងឡាយ ចូរមើលចុះ។...

ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ អវិជ្ជា មិនទៀង ជាធម្មជាតិដែលបច្ច័យប្រជុំតាក់តែង កើត​ព្រោះអាស្រ័យបច្ច័យ ជាធម្មជាតិ​តែងអស់ជាធម្មតា សូន្យជាធម្មតា វិនាសជាធម្មតា រលត់​ជាធម្មតា។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ធម៌ទាំងនេះហៅថា បដិច្ចសមុប្បន្នធម៌។
[៦៣] ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ កាលណា អរិយសាវ័កបានឃើញ នូវ​បដិច្ចសមុប្បាទធម៌នេះផង នូវបដិច្ចសមុប្បន្នធម៌នេះផង ដោយប្រពៃ ដោយប្រាជ្ញា ដ៏​ឧត្តម តាមពិត អរិយសាវ័កនោះ នឹងពិចារណារកទីបំផុតខាងដើម គឺខន្ធក្នុងអតីតកាលថា អាត្មាអញ បានកើតហើយក្នុងអតីតកាលដែរឬហ្ន៎ អាត្មាអញ មិនបានកើតក្នុងអតីតកាលទេឬហ្ន៎ អាត្មាអញបានកើតហើយក្នុងអតីតកាល ដូចម្តេចហ្ន៎ អាត្មាអញ បានកើតហើយក្នុងអតីតកាល ដោយប្រការដូចម្តេចហ្ន៎ អាត្មាអញកើតជាអ្វី ហើយបានកើតជាអ្វី ក្នុងអតីតកាលហ្ន៎ ដូច្នេះក្តី ពិចារណារកនូវទីបំផុតខាងចុង គឺខន្ធ​ក្នុងអនាគតកាលថា អាត្មាអញ នឹងកើតក្នុងអនាគតកាលដែរឬហ្ន៎ អាត្មាអញ នឹងមិនកើតក្នុងអនាគតកាលទេឬហ្ន៎ អាត្មាអញ នឹងកើតក្នុងអនាគតកាល ដូចម្តេចហ្ន៎ អាត្មាអញ នឹងកើតក្នុងអនាគតកាល ដោយប្រការដូចម្តេចហ្ន៎ អាត្មាអញ នឹងកើតជាអ្វី ហើយកើតជាអ្វី ទៅក្នុងអនាគតកាលហ្ន៎ ដូច្នេះក្តី នឹងមានសេចក្តីងឿងឆ្ងល់ ចំពោះ​ខន្ធ​ខាងក្នុង (ខន្ធរបស់ខ្លួន) ក្នុងបច្ចុប្បន្នកាលឥឡូវនេះថា អាត្មាអញ មានដែរឬហ្ន៎ អាត្មាអញ មិនមានទេឬហ្ន៎ អាត្មាអញ មានដូចម្តេចហ្ន៎ អាត្មាអញ មានដោយប្រការដូចម្តេចទៅហ្ន៎ សត្វនេះមកពីណាហ្ន៎ សត្វនោះនឹងទៅកើតក្នុងទីណាហ្ន៎ ដូច្នេះក្តី ហេតុនេះ រមែង​មិនមាន​ឡើយ ដំណើរនោះ តើព្រោះហេតុដូចម្តេច ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ព្រោះថា ព្រះអរិយសាវ័កបានឃើញ នូវបដិច្ចសមុប្បាទធម៌នេះផង នូវបដិច្ចសមុប្បន្នធម៌នេះផង ដោយប្រពៃ ដោយប្រាជ្ញាដ៏ឧត្តមតាមពិត។

Und das dieses "gesehen hat", eine Moment für Moment-Sache ist, ist im Bezug auf, was es mit Ideen einer "Lebenszeit bedingtem Mitaufkommen" auf sich hat, so gesehen/nicht wirklich einsehbar.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 09:10:36 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Marcel

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sadhu, sadhu, sadhu

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ព្រះអរិយៈទាំងឡាយ តែងសរសើរការសម្លាប់សេចក្តីក្រោធ ដែលមានឫសជាពិស មានចុងដ៏ផ្អែម ជនសម្លាប់សេចក្តីក្រោធនោះឯង ទើបមិនសោក។🌚
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