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[Buddha]

Author Topic: [Q&A] Can animals realise the Four Noble Truths? (Answered with sample)  (Read 368 times)

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Offline Johann

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  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
The Brahman Dhammadathu (alias Element, Visuddhiraptor) is a well known person, having falled into disgrace since a longer and it's of cause, not ease, nearly impossible, having once fallen into low realms of existance to get lifted out, yet it is possible.

Periodical, if not permanent, he tries to manifest his right view rejecting ideas and provokes and insults once him, once the other.

In the question "Can animals realise the Four Noble Truths? " he tries, not only be selfanswering to give reasonable evidence against rebirth. While saying rebirth talk just about mindstates within a unique life, even if following this approaches, he is not capable to trace birth into states and their causes.

So this might be useful not only to have certain fear to fall into lower states in this very life, but also to see the pain once gained an existence of devastation:





It's for the sake of those capable, that questions of animals are answered. It's for the sake that animals might gain faith in so far, as to simple observe the Uposatha and trust that better circumstances will follow possible in another, better birth, having build on the strong conditions, given upanissayapaccayena.

In regard of beings, having gained a human existence as far as the gross and merely physical appearance, but having character like an animal, meaning that not having attributes of generosity and no virtue, as to what the Buddha told, it's possible that a merely lost being, nevertheless could gain the path.

That is one reason why Dhamma is not only taught to those sick who are capable to get free of disease, but also to those incapable. And for the sake of those able to get the message, it's right and alowable that those not able are taught as well.

 

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

"Now, it is because of the person who will alight on the lawfulness, the rightness of skillful mental qualities if he gets to see the Tathagata and gets to hear the Dhamma & Discipline proclaimed by the Tathagata — but not if he doesn't — that the teaching of the Dhamma has been allowed. And it is because there is this sort of person that the other sorts of persons are to be taught the Dhamma as well [on the chance that they may actually turn out to need and benefit from the teaching]."

So there is nothing wrong in also teaching "animals" under humans. Of course, since it is possible danger and not pleasant, there is no duty in do such and just teach if they show some basic characters of what is called a human being (like respect, patient, generosity, felling obligate, and virtue).

If one, on the other side, desires to get animals become humans, thinking all have such as a Buddha-Nature, he/she is not only a fool, but increases by sacrifies into the desert wrong view and suffering is bound to it naturally, being attached to animals, often just a matter of time to addopt the animals way.

Being joyful and gladen if teaching and listening to * wuff *.

In regard of being born as an animal, even if not just a common animal, but one with certain merits, think on pets, one is incapable to grow into the Dhamma, e.g. realize the four Noble Truth. Such is pointed out in the story of the Naga for example:

 

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

Then the Blessed One, with regard to this cause, to this incident , had the Saṅgha of monks assembled and said to the nāga:

“You nāgas are not liable to growth in this Dhamma and discipline. Go, nāga. (Staying) right there[2], observe the uposatha on the fourteenth (or) fifteenth and eighth of the fortnight. Thus you will be freed from the nāga-birth and quickly regain the human state.”

The nāga, (thinking,) “It’s said that I’m not liable to growth in this Dhamma and discipline!” sad and unhappy, shedding tears, let out a shriek and left.

(Mv.I.63.5) Then the Blessed One addressed the monks, “Monks, there are two conditions for a male nāga’s reverting to his own state: when he engages in intercourse with a female of his own species, and when he falls asleep with his guard down. These are the two conditions for a male nāga’s reverting to his own state.”

“Monks, an animal, if unaccepted, is not to be given Acceptance. If accepted, he is to be expelled.”

As with animals, human can also be observed of what kind they actually are in cases of being involved on consuming sensuallity and in times the lose sati. Even if normaly human appearance, then, they show their animal nature, not possible to hide.

Maybe you know you self of the cases when there is no disguise grasable.

Althought it seems to be a nice live, living like a pet next kind and generouse people, there is really not much worthy and special in it, think on the many pets in human or animal body dewlling on Dhamma places and in monasteries. If they are able to observe the Uposatha anyway, good. But in now way one is smart in putting ones best fruits from ones garden as sacrify for them, yet worthy of the needed to maintain live as all beings.

If one had the luck to become a pet and then, not seeing the nurishing hand, bites it, shows no gratitude, is even pride to has become a pet under others, for such a being, surely, a talk on Dhamma should be not directed (intended for such a pet), since others might be really hurt, capable to get hurt, if feeding a sick dog with mange.

 
Quote
Rowf! Rowf! Rowf!

I once saw a dog who couldn't eat all the rice I had given it, so he lay down and kept watch over the rice right there. He was so full he couldn't eat any more, but he still lay keeping watch right there. He would drift off and get drowsy, and then suddenly glance over at the food that was left. If any other dog came to eat, no matter how big or how small, he'd growl at it. If chickens came to eat the rice, he'd bark: Rowf! Rowf! Rowf! His stomach was ready to burst, but he couldn't let anyone else eat. He was stingy and selfish.

People can be the same way. If they don't know the Dhamma, if they have no sense of their duties to their superiors and inferiors, if their minds are overcome by the defilements of greed, anger, and delusion, then even when they have lots of wealth they're stingy and selfish. They don't know how to share it. They have a hard time even giving donations to poor children or old people who have nothing to eat. I've thought about this and it's struck me how much they're like common animals. They don't have the virtues of human beings at all. The Buddha called them manussa-tiracchano: human-common-animals. That's the way they are because they lack good will, compassion, empathetic joy, and equanimity.

And what is meant by mange

 
Quote
Mange

The Buddha said, "Monks, did you see the jackal running around here in the evening? Did you see him? Standing still it suffered. Running around it suffered. Sitting down it suffered. Lying down it suffered. Going into the hollow of a tree, it suffered. Going into a cave, it felt ill at ease. It suffered because it thought, 'Standing here isn't good. Sitting isn't good. Lying down isn't good. This bush isn't good. This tree hollow isn't good. This cave isn't good.' So it kept running all the time. Actually, that jackal has mange. Its discomfort doesn't come from the bush or the tree hollow or the cave, from sitting, standing, or lying down. It comes from the mange."

E.g: wrong view, biting around for becoming and for or to gain a pack, a pride.

As one might see the animals around, their pain, even if pets, one should not only develope much metta an karuna with them, but also reflext:

Why it important to value Conditions? , practicing mudita and sharing ones merits, how ever tiny they are.

May the worthy ones and those following gain the first share of this food here, may also their attended be able to still their hunger on it, and may all the rest be able to still the hunger of those not so gifted yet. E.g. the food proper for humans is dedicated for humans, the food contained proper for animals, may be chewed on by the animals to provide them what they prever to eat on.

Since it is a matter of upanissayapaccayena of what personality, food, one prefers and not easy that food conductive for right view will be taken, by those having maybe a human body but have already or previous fallen into disgrace:

 
Quote
Maggots

When we give rise to right view in our hearts, we can be at ease wherever we are. It's because we still have wrong views, still hold onto ideas that are poisonous, that we're not at ease. Holding on in this way is like being a maggot. Where it lives is filthy; its food is filthy. Its food isn't fit to be food — but it seems fitting to the maggot. Try taking a stick and flicking it out of the excrement where it's feeding, and see what happens. It'll wiggle and wriggle, eager to get back to the pile of excrement where it was before. Only then does it feel right.

It's the same with you monks and novices (people dwelling on places wher Dhamma is taught). You still have wrong views. Teachers come and advise you on how to have right view, but it doesn't feel right to you. You keep running back to your pile of excrement. Right view doesn't feel right because you're used to your old pile of excrement. As long as the maggot doesn't see the filth in where it's living, it can't escape. It's the same with us. As long as we don't see the drawbacks of those things, we can't escape from them. They make it difficult to practice.

An what is right view?

 

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

'There is what is given, what is offered, what is sacrificed. There are fruits & results of good & bad actions. There is this world & the next world (rebirth). There is mother & father (those going ahead, one has obligation to). There are spontaneously reborn beings (Gods, Devas, Yakkhas, hungry ghosts...); there are brahmans & contemplatives who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves. (Those knowing from seeing, having done the work, not just talk)'

Since the questioner asked for "seeing here and now the truth", even he him self might be not capable, again to be seen by the wise:

 
Quote
While i decided to select your answer as the best due to the effort, i does not sound like Dhamma to me, which is a honored & respected refuge that is visible here & now, immediately effective, inviting inspection, verified by the wise. – Dhammadhatu

'* wuff * , rowf in english. Got it now? That might give the answer for you visible here and now, @Dhammadhatu Seen? – Samana Johann

"Paraloka" means "other world" rather than "next world"; like when drug takers believe they are having fun but end up in the other world of hell. – Dhammadhatu

Sure, for animal para, others, beyound, is still far and not easy to see, since "next" appears for them as the same. Mudita that you can chew and feed on the bones. – Samana Johann

What do you think: can Dhamma be realiced by animals? Easy or nearly to no way for humans having gained an animal state? Visible right here and now.



 

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

(42) Others will be lacking in mindfulness; we shall be established in mindfulness here — thus effacement can be done .

(43) Others will be without wisdom; we shall be endowed with wisdom — thus effacement can be done.

(44) Others will misapprehend according to their individual views, hold on to them tenaciously and not easily discard them;[18] we shall not misapprehend according to individual views nor hold on to them tenaciously, but shall discard them with ease — thus effacement can be done.

Anumodana!

Quote from: PS.
Did you know, that taking away something that has been given before, is an act of stealing? Did you know, that regret of one previous acts of merits lead easy to become a ancestorless, rich person not able to enjoy his wealth? Did you know that making undertakings to harm Brahmans and contemplatives, maliciously, cheating lying... leads to hell? Can it be seen, here and now, Dhammadhatu ? Or does it require another rebirth fist, better countless, since to gain human birth again is not easy to gain, not to speak of the teachings of a Tatagatha. let go of bad promisses if possible in thi very realm.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Sophorn

July 20, 2018, 05:09:54 AM
Sadhu. Möge es ein verdienstvolller Tag sein!
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

July 20, 2018, 03:06:04 AM
Allen einen verdienstvollen Silatag, der letzte vor dem Antritt der Regenrückzugszeit.
 

Sophorn

July 14, 2018, 11:10:02 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
Karuna tvay bongkum Bhante
 :-*  :-* :-*
 

Sophorn

July 14, 2018, 11:09:03 AM
 :)  ;) Moritz, gut einfühlbar. In Österreich lebte der Körper nach der asiatischen Uhr, hier in N nach der österreichischen Uhr.
Nicht zeitgerecht der Natur entsprechend zu leben, überfordert den Körper.  
Beste Grüße aus Kathmandu!  :-*
 

Johann

July 14, 2018, 11:06:18 AM
Sadhu, und vergesse Nyom sich nicht.
 

Moritz

July 14, 2018, 11:00:04 AM
Es wird spät in Hawaii. Einen friedlichen Tag allen. _/\_
 

Moritz

July 14, 2018, 07:40:41 AM
Ja, gestern Vormittag bis Nachmittag. Ich lebe wohl gerade ungefähr im Einklang mit der Zeitzone von Hawaii.
 

Johann

July 14, 2018, 07:36:45 AM
Nyom Moritz. Hat er auch ausreichend Schlaf genommen?
 

Moritz

July 14, 2018, 07:30:08 AM
Good day, Bhante _/\_
 

Moritz

July 13, 2018, 05:58:06 PM
Vandami, Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

July 13, 2018, 03:20:13 PM
Nyom Roman
 

Moritz

July 13, 2018, 03:07:40 AM
Ach ja, hab nun geändert. Vielleicht klappt's nun beim nächsten probieren @Roman
_/\_
 

Johann

July 13, 2018, 02:21:56 AM
Vielleicht gut wenn Meister Moritz Nyom Roman die 5 Mühsam-Beitagszahl hineinzaubert, da dann spamschutz wegfällt und er zu den unöffentlichen Foren Zugang hat.
 

Moritz

July 12, 2018, 09:13:06 PM
Hier eine kurze Bild-Erklärung zum Beantworten von Themen und Beiträgen.
Wenn noch Probleme, gern weiter hier nachfragen. _/\_
 

Moritz

July 12, 2018, 09:11:14 PM
Gut zu hören, dass der Bruder sich mitfreut. Sadhu! :)
Möge alles problemlos im Eintritt in das neue Leben für ihn laufen. _/\_

Roman

July 12, 2018, 09:01:41 PM
Danke moritz

Ich werde es ausprobieren!!

Aufjedenfall war es eine sehr erfreuliche Nachricht! ! Ich bin sehr stolz auf marcel!! Mein herz geht auf!! Wunderschön!
 

Moritz

July 12, 2018, 08:58:37 PM
(Also auch auf der neuen Seite, wo dann das Text-Eingabefeld ist: Das Text-Eingabefeld ist nicht gleich im Fokus, sondern man muss erst ein gutes Stück nach unten scrollen, um es zu finden.)
Nicht sicher gerade, wie es auf Smartphone aussieht, ob da viel anders ist.
 

Moritz

July 12, 2018, 08:56:57 PM
Wenn man ganz unten ans Ende der letzten Nachricht scrollt, sollte da ein Button "Reply" oder "Antworten" sein. (Je nach eingestellter Sprache vielleicht.) Da drauf klicken. Dann sollte auf der nächsten Seite eine Texteingabe-Ansicht erscheinen. Zu der muss man aber erst ein Stück runter scrollen.
 

Moritz

July 12, 2018, 08:53:20 PM
Oh, die Nachricht wurde abgeschnitten. Hier in der Shoutbox sind nur ein paar hundert Zeichen möglich.
Ja, das Forum ist etwas unübersichtlich am Anfang. Moment, ich versuche mal, zu erklären. :)

Roman

July 12, 2018, 08:41:24 PM
Hallo

Ich lese sehr viel hier!! Es ist sehr interessant!! Die Menge an Infos! ! Sehr toll!!..Ich habe versucht auf den Beitrag zu reagieren der die Entwicklung von nyom marcel beschreibt..glaube von Johann verfasst. Jedoch weiß ich noch nicht genau wie dieses funktioniert.
Ich habe die Nachric
 

Moritz

July 12, 2018, 08:34:57 PM
Hallo Roman, Binocular/Visitor _/\_
 

Johann

July 12, 2018, 02:08:25 PM
Nyom Roman
 

Johann

July 11, 2018, 10:08:30 PM
Ohh... es ist woeder mal 3 geworden. Atma erlaubt sich, sich zurückzuziehen und sich etwas um die Malaria zu kümmern.
 

Johann

July 11, 2018, 07:20:56 PM
Sadhu zu Ersten Ausruf/ Aufruf. Sadhu zum zweiten, zu Vorbildhaftigkeit, und mag er sich stets entlassen fühlen
 

Moritz

July 11, 2018, 07:00:07 PM
Chom reap leah, Bhante _/\_
Nun wirklich weg hier für heute, Arbeit ruft.
 

Moritz

July 11, 2018, 05:43:01 PM
Allen gute Besinnung auf was besinnenswert ([1] | [2] ) ist wünschend _/\_
 

Sophorn

July 08, 2018, 09:33:25 AM
Karuna tvay bongkum Bhante :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

July 08, 2018, 09:28:47 AM
Nyom Sophorn
 

Danilo

July 08, 2018, 12:20:06 AM
Bhante and Moritz _/\_
 

Johann

July 08, 2018, 12:16:49 AM
Moritz, Danilo
 

Moritz

July 08, 2018, 12:09:40 AM
Good evening, morning or whatever the time here and there. _/\_
 

Johann

July 02, 2018, 04:20:58 PM
Meister Moritz
 

Moritz

July 02, 2018, 02:57:42 PM
Vandami, Bhante _/\_
 

Marcel

July 02, 2018, 02:36:37 PM
  :-* Hallo Moritz
 

Moritz

July 02, 2018, 02:33:25 PM
Hallo, Marcel, Sophorn. _/\_
 

Johann

July 02, 2018, 05:18:33 AM
Nyom Sophorn, Nachricht von Bhante Indannano: http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,1554.msg15198.html#msg15198
 

Marcel

July 02, 2018, 03:51:28 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
Bhante
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

July 02, 2018, 02:22:38 AM
Nyom Marcel
 

Johann

July 02, 2018, 02:08:22 AM
Geruhsame Nacht, Nyom
 

Moritz

July 02, 2018, 01:48:32 AM
Gute Nacht. _/\_
 

Moritz

July 02, 2018, 01:47:01 AM
Hallo Mirco! :)
 

Moritz

July 02, 2018, 01:46:48 AM
Sadhu. Möge Bhante lange gesund bleiben. _/\_
 

Johann

July 01, 2018, 06:45:22 PM
Sadhu

Angenehmen, klärenden Tag. Auch allen anderen.

Atmas Gesundheit, trotz der durch stetes Regnen zahlreicher Mitesser, ist soweit ok und wer weis wie morgen. Bisher schon länger malariaanfallverschont.

 

Moritz

July 01, 2018, 04:45:36 PM
(Bin erst mal kurz weg vom Computer.
Chom reap leah. _/\_)
 

Moritz

July 01, 2018, 04:41:41 PM
Guten Abend, Bhante. _/\_

Wie steht es um Ihre Gesundheit und Malaria?

_/\_
 

Moritz

July 01, 2018, 03:48:17 AM
Hallo Sophorn!
Gruß auch zurück nach Österreich :) _/\_
 

Sophorn

July 01, 2018, 03:40:58 AM
Freut mich, dass es gut geht.

Beste Grüsse nach Asien und Resteuropa!  :-*
 

Marcel

June 30, 2018, 12:23:03 AM
Werte sophorn,
Mir geht es gut!  :-*
 

Sophorn

June 29, 2018, 08:23:49 PM
Werter Marcel,
Wie geht's?
 :-*
 

Marcel

June 28, 2018, 08:10:49 AM
  :'(- irrtümlich gesendet!!

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