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2019 Jun 26 01:07:18
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Author Topic: Male via female abilities - The big global controversy  (Read 3133 times)

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Offline Johann

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Male via female abilities - The big global controversy
« on: October 06, 2013, 04:44:32 AM »
* Johann has allowed him self to cut of some posts from Sangha feminin, masculin or neutral? Der, die oder das Sangha oder ganz ohne? , as they are naturally high emotional and full of bias. So maybe its good to have a separate topic to work a little on that. Hope that is not to regulatory seen, but as a additional possibility.  :-* And to understand certain views and their origin.

Thanks a lot for all your explaining, TheY, I would have a lot to learn.

I guess the real reason of the topic is not so easy to understand. Its more about a notion that come which the article in German and not so much about gramma it self.

Also to state male is more "vigorous", would be dangerous. Thinking on Asian males for example, it is simply wrong. The moving power is always female, whether in business or in family.

So the thing is much about conceit in birth (sex) and therefor a very hot topic. Of cause we know that a Brahman (bhikkhu-ni) or what ever is made by action/deeds on and on, aside of birth.

The neuter use here (if you talk about the use of sangham.net) derives from Sanskrit and can be understood as "to go or come together, come into contact, meet", so somehow like "Saṅghaṃ saraṇaṃ gacchāmi."
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 05:03:45 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Vorapol

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Re: Male via femal abilities - The big global controverse
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2013, 11:40:51 PM »
Democracy: Man and woman can have vigorous.
Kamma: Man and woman can have vigorous upon their previous kamma.

Woman previous kamma, made them weak--bleed every month, hard to make muscle, hard to tall, hard to control their emotion, ้hard to keep their intention.

So who thinking "who can decide to do is vigorous", they're wrong.
Because vigorous is deciding, keeping, success, etc. It isn't only deciding.
Fickle-person often decided, but they often can't keep and succeed their intention, too.

And so who thinking "everyone can succeed intention, so everyone is vigorous", they're wrong.
Because vigorous has not for everyone, such as tihetuka-paṭisandhi, ekahetuka-paṭisandhi, and ahetukapaṭisandhi has not vigorous of enlightenment.
Also, patient--such as  bleeding and bled woman, or weakling--such as no muscle woman,  have lesser vigorous more than general person, male.

And so who thinking "vigorous is not relate with born", they're wrong.
Because 19 paṭisandhi-citta can  limit vigorous of person, and make many  personal vigorous limitation.

Democratic person succeed to use science to get pañcakāmaguṇa. However, brahm can more ้honestly access science than democratic person.

Example: Democratic person claim science to deny next born. But brahm believe in next born in the wrong  way.


--------------------------

Saṅgham.net is great meaning!

Offline Johann

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Re: Male via femal abilities - The big global controverse
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2013, 04:34:44 AM »
Dear theY,

I guess I totally understand what you try to say. Anyway, please understand that modern people are ensnared with the "You can (get what you want)!" - Illusion and do not so easy understand that things are coming by deeds and developed condition.

How ever, we need to be careful to make no generalizations as it easily leads to caste thinking which is actually, even if denied, the normal way of SEAsian thinking.

So it is wise if it is between Demo-cracy and linear kamma - thinking.

TheY, you need to know that such declarations, as you made, would count as very discriminating and you need to know that it is in a woman ruled country.

Who says woman can not be vigorous and get muscles?



I guess we could cut of some parts here and make a separate Topic out of it, what do you think?

This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Vorapol

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Re: Male via femal abilities - The big global controverse
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2013, 08:50:45 AM »
Dear theY,

I guess I totally understand what you try to say. Anyway, please understand
 that modern people are ensnared with the "You can (get what you want)!" -
Illusion and do not so easy understand that things are coming by deeds
and developed condition.

I understood this topic, since I wrote "Democracy", so I didn't denied
your reply, anyway. However, I categorized them in democracy principle,
not in kamma principle. Do you know "Why?"--hint: not about SEA I just write
only on dhamma principle.)[/b]

Quote
How ever, we need to be careful to make no generalizations as it easily leads
to caste thinking which is actually, even if denied, the normal way of SEAsian thinking.

So it is wise if it is between Demo-cracy and linear kamma - thinking.

TheY, you need to know that such declarations, as you made, would count as very
discriminating and you need to know that it is in a woman ruled country.

I have not discussed by democracy principle. I discussing by dhamma principle.
Top to bottom of my each reply come out from dhamma principle and pali text.
SEA thinking derived from dhamma, so you thought I let it from SEA.
Come back to dhamma, and claim dhamma more and more.

Also why female can free-discuss about us, but we can't discuss them. Is that fair?

Moreover we talking in academic principle, not slandering them.

discriminating by māna is one. And discriminating by paññā is another one.
If you can't seperate them. You can't let academic talking arise in this topic, too.

Please, don't let dhamma be what dhamma is not. I just analyzing
democracy by dhamma in book, with science. I'm not discriminating.

Every words of me can claim to pali text. When you say "discriminating",
you saying "pali text discriminating". You saying "science discriminating", too.

Quote
Who says woman can not be vigorous and get muscles?



You concentrating on democracy, and woman's rights more than dhamma.
Democracy just a part of dhamma, but you act like democracy can decide everything.

You cut my dhamma words/points off then walking dead about democracy, and woman's rights.

I'm sorry to ask, "are you a democrazy religious people?".

If not, why you cut off my dhamma words? Why you don't ask me about that word anytime?

1. I said "hard to make muscle". But you cut "hard"-- that is dhamma, off,
then make the rest words to be democracy by said "Who says woman
can not be vigorous and get muscles?"

2. I said...
Quote
(a) Democracy: Man and woman can have vigorous.
(b) Kamma: Man and woman can have vigorous upon their previous kamma.

But you cut "(a)" off ,then make the rest words to be democracy by said...

Quote
I guess I totally understand what you try to say. Anyway,
please understand that modern people are ensnared with the
"You can (get what you want)!" - Illusion and do not so easy understand
that things are coming by deeds and developed condition.

"Democracy: Man and woman can have vigorous." show "You can (get what you want)!" in itself.

Why you act like I said not?

Quote
I guess we could cut of some parts here and make a separate Topic out of it, what do you think?

Great!

----------------------------------

Can you mind my dhamma words more?
Why you mind more democracy than dhamma?
Why you don't thing in pali-text more than samaṇa should do?
I claim many words from pāli and science, but why you overpass them?

There is unfair that I understand your democracy mind,
while you didn't under stand my words such as woman previous kamma,
"tihetuka-paṭisandhi, ekahetuka-paṭisandhi, and ahetukapaṭisandhi has not
vigorous of enlightenment", vigorous is not relate with born,
19 paṭisandhi-citta relation with personal vigorous limitation,
honestly access science.

It seem to be misbehave to accuse "you  not understand my word".
But I mind your mind, so I have thought in your democracy
thinking before said that word.


--------------------------------

Don't be serious, I just try to get you out of  limitation of democracy.
Kamma has a part that be democracy and a part that not be democracy, too.
Again, all democracy is dhamma, but democracy isn't equal to dhamma.

Offline Johann

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Re: Male via female abilities - The big global controversy
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2013, 09:13:04 AM »
Dear TheY,

sorry for causing you some misunderstandings. Really nothing to worry and I understand what you like to tell.

Thanks for sharing all your thoughts and investigation. Of course your are right, if you had the realization that Democracy is actually not really Buddhas way, as it would be always just Demonstrative Crazy. In fact, even for the Sangha actions, a democracy is just one part of many ways tp acts and in fact, not really similar to what is the normal notion of democracy.

Dhamma is not dependent on quantity, but on quality and the tool of vote in dependence of quantity should be only used if the quality is ensured.   

So don't worry, I fully understand you and most parts agree with you. Nevertheless we need to be careful to fall not into the other extreme of authority, especially by birth and position, which is the other extreme.

Since the today's drunkenness in rights and being demo-cracy is very present in SEA I fully understand the aversion against this western influence. How ever, the greed will win any way and we need to face that old traditions are gone. One old culture after the other will fall and if we do not accept this very nature of decay we will suffer even more.

We know all the extreme in fighting against such sensualisation of societies. Holocaust of the WWII, Khmer rouge, today's Muslim extremism, all of that is always a effect of fighting against nature and brings additional harm.

So really don't worry that I do not understand what you mean and you can be sure that I do neither advocate democracy nor deny it. What ever act is out of wisdom is good, and actually the mainstream can by nature not act wisely, but can be used to give wise decisions more power for a good.

So the only possibility today is, to put much effort in teaching people to understand.

That's why we have this topic here and I hope good battles will bring some insight.

How ever, it need to be done carefully, people are very proud of their achievement called democracy, as they believe that freedom to take, and giving moods more power is liberation.

Much explaining are necessary here and we would lose much possibilities if we do not use this given freedom to talk about here for a better understanding.

"Again, all democracy is dhamma (natural phemonena), but democracy isn't equal to (The) dhamma."

Good saying!

 :-*
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 09:21:09 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Vorapol

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Re: Male via female abilities - The big global controversy
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2013, 11:27:49 AM »
Oh, my english get better level ^.^

Offline Johann

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Re: Male via female abilities - The big global controversy
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2013, 11:42:13 AM »
* Johann likes to express: Sure, but if you like to develop good English, do not learn to much of mine, since it is not really good. So in case of language (English) be sure that you can ask our Friends Aramika Moritz or Aramikini Sophorn here, they are pretty good with it and trustworthy and mistrust mine twice!  :) So I am more a kind of mirror, if you understand.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 12:05:30 PM by Johann »
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