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Author Topic: Sharing merits and dedication of merits  (Read 642 times)

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Offline Danilo

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Sharing merits and dedication of merits
« on: March 03, 2018, 06:44:58 PM »

Aramika   *

Dieses neue Thema (bzw. diese/r Beitrag/e) wurde  aus abgetrennten Beiträgen, ursprünglich in How and where to give and share a translation? , hinzugefügt. Für ev. ergänzende Informationen zur sehen Sie bitte das Ursprugsthema ein. Anumodana!

[Original post:]


 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

It's good to consider and give a dedication (to whom) and to share the merits as well, when offering, Nyom Danilo . Being the most importand part to have the best possible mindstate and directing of sacrify, take your time and what place best suits to your aspiration.

Since the translation wasn't given to a individual in specific, like Bhante instructed:

Maintain by what ever service and giving Nyom Danilo feels inspired, a vision of the Noble Sangha rather something personal grasped as myself, for me for us...
What would be a dedication in the context of dana?

Keep the intention to serve the Noble Sangha.
Is this a dedication?

Keep the wish that everyone have a share in the fruits yielded by meritorious deeds performed by me (even if I know that this is impossible).
Is this sharing merits?

 _/\_
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 04:13:10 AM by Johann »

Offline Johann

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Re: Sharing merits and dedication of merits
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2018, 07:44:41 PM »
Sadhu for asking further, Nyom Danilo

_/\_ _/\_ _/\_

It's good to consider and give a dedication (to whom) and to share the merits as well, when offering, Nyom Danilo . Being the most importand part to have the best possible mindstate and directing of sacrify, take your time and what place best suits to your aspiration.

Since the translation wasn't given to a individual in specific, like Bhante instructed:

Maintain by what ever service and giving Nyom Danilo feels inspired, a vision of the Noble Sangha rather something personal grasped as myself, for me for us...

What would be a dedication in the context of dana?


That was a wise, most wisest choice, if being dedicated to those freed of defilments, perfect in their conduct and the most sublime object of dedication to be found in this world, the great field of merits.

(Althought especially in the modern world not so usual, it's good to express dedication, so that no one might get it wrong, and present receiver for it (those who possible accept it on that behave of intention, would take best possible care for the final recipient and that those not objected, would not make mistakenly make it theirs. So to avoid misunderstandings.))

One could formulate such like: "May "so-and-so", out of compassion and for my and many others benefit, accept this gift, dedicated for the Noble Sangha, represented by the Sangha of the eight direction, as well by their novices and following, and make proper use of it, having given the elders the first share. For a second time... For a third time... the first share."

Keep the intention to serve the Noble Sangha.
Is this a dedication?

Keep the wish that everyone have a share in the fruits yielded by meritorious deeds performed by me (even if I know that this is impossible).


Is this sharing merits?

 _/\_

It was probably not well pointed out by my person. One is the recipient, one is a dedication. The recipent might be also the object of dedication "may so-and-so receive it", while giving to someone who might be not the physical targed for now. Mental, if it can be expected that it might come to the final recipient, it's good to hold on the final dedication.

Sharing merits means to give (possible all, starting by one parents, teacher... devas... all beings) others the change to rejoice by getting known ones good deeds. For someone capaple to receive this offer, to rejoice with it, he/she takes part on it, is able, by the act of joy with it, to make the same merits, or even higher, just by getting this chance. A practice, especially verbal and physical, not very usuall and welcome in modern world.

Some more detail explainings are given here Re: Sharing merits - Freude teilen (pattanumodana & pattidana) [Forum Guide] (not all in english for now, maybe tomorrow a try for an english Audio on it).

With the giving of the share (mudita) one possible reaches, by giving even ones merits, the Brahmarealm, if not even more already by having the Noble Sangha firm and right in mind.

Just to mention: to give the share of good, possible best accessable for all, means that it might costs ones honor of those not happy on seeing good deeds, which is why people often do not like to make it hear and visible. (Some old friends might think: 'look he has gone cracy.' or don't like the recipient to gain.) That's "vanna maccharia " which hinders here, stingyness in regard of ones estimate/honor. And Atma therefor suggests to cut off the certain post on it, to share the merits of Dhammalistening and Dhammatalk.

So in two ways here regarded: in words and practical doing to see, investigate, and know for one self.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 08:36:18 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: Sharing merits and dedication of merits
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2018, 08:21:56 PM »
If having done in this way and released, given totally, if not having gained path or fruit (meaning, there is still a certain hold on it), this hold, a refine (a remembering "I used to do such a deed"), can be used everywhere and all the time to gain access-concentration , in "Reflecting ones generosity", and later fill the pot to gain path and fruit.

The "wordily sideeffects", of in this case being gifted by receiving Dhamma in the future, and longlive, beauty, happiness and strength (now, later, in existences which might come) are nevertheless be garanted to fall back to one according ones deeds and proper soil to ripe.

It's, if not so-called "Anfänger-Glück" (beginner-luck) something to train and do it again and again, to place the ball perfect into the basket.

So-called beginner are not beginner, and there are cases where given faith suddendly turns to firm doubtlessness.

Mudita

(And an recipient, having accepted, if not direct the target, has nothing but burdens to bring it to it's aim, either physical or by becoming the target... while the giver simply gains release :) lucky, from objectivity in the realms, those who can make merits and not required to live on other ones merits for now, having everywhere to danger to increase debts, which of course pulling toward the object of the gift, even if a hard.)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 08:40:23 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Danilo

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Re: Sharing merits and dedication of merits
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2018, 03:41:15 AM »
Then, if I got it right, give a dedication is similarly to concede ownership.
Is it supposed to have a notice to be attached to the work when give the dedication or is it just a mind state issue?

Just to mention: to give the share of good, possible best accessable for all, means that it might costs ones honor of those not happy on seeing good deeds, which is why people often do not like to make it hear and visible. (Some old friends might think: 'look he has gone cracy.' or don't like the recipient to gain.) That's "vanna maccharia " which hinders here, stingyness in regard of ones estimate/honor. And Atma therefor suggests to cut off the certain post on it, to share the merits of Dhammalistening and Dhammatalk.
So in two ways here regarded: in words and practical doing to see, investigate, and know for one self.

If having done in this way and released, given totally, if not having gained path or fruit (meaning, there is still a certain hold on it), this hold, a refine (a remembering "I used to do such a deed"), can be used everywhere and all the time to gain access-concentration , in "Reflecting ones generosity", and later fill the pot to gain path and fruit.

The "wordily sideeffects", of in this case being gifted by receiving Dhamma in the future, and longlive, beauty, happiness and strength (now, later, in existences which might come) are nevertheless be garanted to fall back to one according ones deeds and proper soil to ripe.

It's, if not so-called "Anfänger-Glück" (beginner-luck) something to train and do it again and again, to place the ball perfect into the basket.

So-called beginner are not beginner, and there are cases where given faith suddendly turns to firm doubtlessness.

Mudita

(And an recipient, having accepted, if not direct the target, has nothing but burdens to bring it to it's aim, either physical or by becoming the target... while the giver simply gains release :) lucky, from objectivity in the realms, those who can make merits and not required to live on other ones merits for now, having everywhere to danger to increase debts, which of course pulling toward the object of the gift, even if a hard.)

I'm having a hard time trying to fully grasp what Ven. Johann wanted to mean in this parts. :'( Since is a crucial matter, I would be thankful if Bhante could explain again.  _/\_

Offline Johann

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Re: Sharing merits and dedication of merits
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2018, 05:54:57 AM »
* "concede ownership": yes

Since at least the mind, intentions count, it is (at least) not necessary to visible (by signs) proclaim a dedicatation, but that the receiver is able to accept (knowing "it's given to me, I can do something with it"), or to reject, (is not able to take because not being the assumed recipient, or not able to fullfill the wishes attached to it).
In short, that others are clear of your act and wish. As for a monk to be able to reveive, the personal physical giving into ones had, and/or giving by speech are necessary.

So the act of giving is practiced in three ways of actions, by mind (letting go & wish), by speech (informing of what giving, to whom, for what purpose) and the physical act, the handing over (with two hands) and waiting till it has been taken.

Has been taken: if physical transfering into ones hand is not possible, an expression of "Sadhu" or "it has been received" gives indication. Monks would sometimes stay silent if personal physical given.

So also for oneself, certain verbal and physical actions of the recipient are useful to have no doubts that it was received.

Althought all can be made without expressions, just by thinking, it's a very risky thing and everybody knows what troubles assumings or in trust can bring, both for giver and perceiver. That is why it is traditional made always very "formal" and not like mostly and very usual in modern days in a "cool" way.

* The secound part, release and results.

If a gift was given without, what the Buddha called "a adorment for the mind", if it is fully not only physical released, it has been the act of highest giving.

If certain wishes for it, certain toughts, what ever, are still attached, it lead to that aim. For example, if one desires to gain certain refined reward, as to be happy, or become a Deva... what ever, it leads to that.

How ever perfect the act was, it stays an according source to remember on it, to gain certain joy, eg. concentration, later. The more and often made, the easier one can access this source of joy, having more and more inclination to the joy gained by giving.

* the act of sharing merits, is not only a aspiration out of compassion for (all) others, but works additionaly agains stingyness and envy.
Althought it can be made also just mental, doing it verbal and physical as well, is the better and more effective way, like by giving, to let there be no doubt and best possibilities for the recipient.

Since also here, the complete path and depending co-arising can be found and traced, it is as simple as complex. It really should not burden in any present undertakings, but just be considered and addopted of what can be seen as benefical, or simply start the usual way, beginning outwardly and go then into mind.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Johann

October 17, 2018, 06:01:23 PM
May all spend meritorious/good and higher last hours of this Sila-day.

Sokh chomreoun (may well being be developed [by everyone])
 

Johann

October 16, 2018, 03:15:10 PM
Nyom Roman.
 

Johann

October 12, 2018, 04:13:16 PM
Good to see Nyom Norum.
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 10:38:10 AM
Maybe of support for lasting satifaction: Seeds of Becoming .
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 06:57:38 AM
When ever love arises, dislike will be it's end. Who ever seeks out for friends, will get his enemy. Why? Because not willing to leave home. May wanderer gus find the way to never return. Mudita

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:58 AM
Vandami.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:22 AM
Nevertheless my courage of active participation  has been fallen down. Anyway I hope to come time to time.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam khamata me bhante.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:37:11 AM
Okasa bhante,

I didn't accepted Dymitros invitation to start a Theravada forum, because I thought this forum is pure Theravada. Now I regret about it, yet think this forum is comparatively good.  I learnt many valuable things from you and grateful to you. Nevertheless my courage of active partici
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 02:20:29 AM
What ever one searches for, that he/she will find. Less are those seeing the nature of combined thing, leaving home and go beyond Maras domain.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:45:18 PM
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:39:12 PM
When one is born in outer regions ... your island has drifted away.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:30:00 PM
macchariya, a boarder hard to cross to the middle way, abounding home, sakayaditthi, doubt and rituals.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:33:02 PM
However much one say, West is West, East is East.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 02:28:29 PM
Where ever there is east, there is west. And vici versa. Where ever there is nama, there is rupa. Where ever one seeks for a home, there he will suffer.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:03:31 PM
West is West

gus

October 06, 2018, 09:56:42 AM
belief of kamma, gratitude, independence, honesty, devotion : These are hard to find in people
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:49:14 AM
Again, a latin proverb mit be useful: Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi , patisota is always harmful if not just one own defilements or having a proper stand to help. Sota is the virtue required to resist in borderlands.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:41:52 AM
If in a borderland it's better to simply serve and support the Sangha. It's not smart to seek for other householders to nurish on traced imperfections of something required to uphold, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 04:54:48 AM
Okasa, happy to hear such things reagarding kamma. Many monks I have met don't directly speak about kamma because they have been tired after practicing some years and now bit relaxed.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:17:26 AM
Such can be total kusala and total akusala or simply defuse. Set your mind right and be mindful, that nothing will be of harm for yourself and others.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:15:27 AM
There is nothing not permitted. Merits or demerits are the actors responsibility. One is full in charge of ones action in this Domain here, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 03:50:00 AM
Bhante, is it permitted to ask questions or post things on behalf of other/future people ?

gus

October 05, 2018, 09:19:32 AM
We have been advised like this:
"No matter however much monks reject you,
Never leave the place."
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 09:09:37 AM
It's good when wanderer gus takes a rest, turns to a lonly place, enjoys the merits done and find a good place for his mind and fixes possible open wholes when clear where he likes to go some hours later.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 08:59:03 AM
Wanderer Gus knows how foolish this statement is. That is not the way to get out of a hole.

gus

October 05, 2018, 08:42:59 AM
okasa,
falling down from a status is suffering.
So, if I could stay in the hell-being status from the beginning, then no suffering.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:33:20 AM
From a state of a young Bhikkhu equal tradition...to householder... ...asura (now) on the border to animal, peta, hell-state. It can go quick if not having firm nissaya.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:29:27 AM
Aniccam vatta samsara...

gus

October 05, 2018, 06:56:28 AM
Evolution:
Bhante subhuti =>
Upasaka gus =>
Deva gus =>
Asura gus.

In the future:
Asura gus =>
Peta gus =>
Animal gus =>
Hell-being gus ???

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:51:42 AM
Okasa, I think bhante thinks me as a patriot because of some content of my posts. But it is not.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 05:41:33 AM
What ever one likes to, not touched like the moon, does not mean to praise what is blameworthy and vici-versa and to have metta not to let people run into hell if ways can be pointed out. Yet other choices at least are their. Be quick, your island drifts away!

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:34:15 AM
Okasa,
As long as I don't do exactly what you say, I think I'll not be able to make you happy or satisfied.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 02:12:55 PM
If thinking that this is for sure, if delighting in believing that connected things are a refuge and give space to rest: one may do so. Ones own choice. When ever one stops to nurish inwardly, ouwardly path and fruits die. Good as well as bad.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:28:51 AM
If bhante didn't let the weak person to live in avatar/deva mode, then he will lose both openness and connection. Up to now I have secured at least the connection.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:22:24 AM
Yet I appreciate and pay vandana for your care and advice on openness.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:19:56 AM
Please forgive me  bhante if I have made you tired. I don't like to accumulate akusala by making a monk tired in expecting a naughty chicken to be a good duck.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam Khamtu me bhante!
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:07:06 AM
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:01:00 AM
Differnt asked "why is Bhante not happy, dwell not in outwardly seeming being not touched?" Because it would not only confirm and show sign of aggreement of unwise acts, but also very incompassionate and cruel. Also place for suspecting corrupt ways and invite others to follow the comfortable dwelli
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:54:12 AM
No one is able to make my person angry, which does not mean that he would not appear angry so to possible prevent from doing what is not conductive for liberation, even lead in lower states. Nothing to worry, but also no invitation to test it foolish since it could hurt one self and others.

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:46:39 AM
Okasa bhante, Isn't there at least single way to stay anonymous without making you angry?
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:33:12 AM
corr: "it's, the domain of the Noble Ones, is nobody's personal domain" there are no wards around fields for merits and no tickets to pay
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:29:31 AM
What ever Deva gus feels inspired. It's oneones personal domain and all giving is good in the distance of the brigh cool moon. One should not fear, should not be shy to do what is good and praised by the wise but be quick!

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:21:39 AM
Bhante, is that mean you don't like me to talk about higher subjects and like to talk about basics only?
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:02:12 AM
It would be more than good if teaching others a lot on the topic vandami (paying respect) and khamatu (asking for forgiviness) since unknown and not practiced here around this field of merits in compassion to former relatives, Deva gus.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:55:38 AM
...total no problem to dwell and lay down in the cool shadow to heal at all and no need to ask for pardon when intended for progressing and to get fit for the battles so hard to win.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:52:39 AM
But they would not feed them in ways which might look as nurishing relations for wordly sake directly, for people not understanding would think "look, he is herding, carry for his cattle, he wasts the gift of the land, the heritage of the Gems for his becoming and own gain. Understood? Total no prob
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:45:29 AM
Never would people of integrity send away pets, petas or sick, for they are not able to change for now but possible can gain of what they need to change.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:42:28 AM
If, just to think about, one lives deliberatly with sign showing a rejection of firm trust in kamma, one lives in nurishing the danger of falling into grave wrong views and give ways that others follow what is improper to do. Just to reflect. How ever wishing to do.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:36:03 AM
What ever one does, holds as refuge or abounds, either good or bad refuge, one does for one self. Ones own choices, ones own fruits, ones own limitations, hindrences.

gus

October 04, 2018, 09:28:15 AM
Khamatu me bhante!
My previous  post was this.
"Please forgive me and give birth to kindness ao as to let me live here anonymous "

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