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Author Topic: Sharing merits and dedication of merits  (Read 688 times)

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Offline Danilo

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Sharing merits and dedication of merits
« on: March 03, 2018, 06:44:58 PM »

Aramika   *

Dieses neue Thema (bzw. diese/r Beitrag/e) wurde  aus abgetrennten Beiträgen, ursprünglich in How and where to give and share a translation? , hinzugefügt. Für ev. ergänzende Informationen zur sehen Sie bitte das Ursprugsthema ein. Anumodana!

[Original post:]


 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

It's good to consider and give a dedication (to whom) and to share the merits as well, when offering, Nyom Danilo . Being the most importand part to have the best possible mindstate and directing of sacrify, take your time and what place best suits to your aspiration.

Since the translation wasn't given to a individual in specific, like Bhante instructed:

Maintain by what ever service and giving Nyom Danilo feels inspired, a vision of the Noble Sangha rather something personal grasped as myself, for me for us...
What would be a dedication in the context of dana?

Keep the intention to serve the Noble Sangha.
Is this a dedication?

Keep the wish that everyone have a share in the fruits yielded by meritorious deeds performed by me (even if I know that this is impossible).
Is this sharing merits?

 _/\_
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 04:13:10 AM by Johann »

Offline Johann

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Re: Sharing merits and dedication of merits
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2018, 07:44:41 PM »
Sadhu for asking further, Nyom Danilo

_/\_ _/\_ _/\_

It's good to consider and give a dedication (to whom) and to share the merits as well, when offering, Nyom Danilo . Being the most importand part to have the best possible mindstate and directing of sacrify, take your time and what place best suits to your aspiration.

Since the translation wasn't given to a individual in specific, like Bhante instructed:

Maintain by what ever service and giving Nyom Danilo feels inspired, a vision of the Noble Sangha rather something personal grasped as myself, for me for us...

What would be a dedication in the context of dana?


That was a wise, most wisest choice, if being dedicated to those freed of defilments, perfect in their conduct and the most sublime object of dedication to be found in this world, the great field of merits.

(Althought especially in the modern world not so usual, it's good to express dedication, so that no one might get it wrong, and present receiver for it (those who possible accept it on that behave of intention, would take best possible care for the final recipient and that those not objected, would not make mistakenly make it theirs. So to avoid misunderstandings.))

One could formulate such like: "May "so-and-so", out of compassion and for my and many others benefit, accept this gift, dedicated for the Noble Sangha, represented by the Sangha of the eight direction, as well by their novices and following, and make proper use of it, having given the elders the first share. For a second time... For a third time... the first share."

Keep the intention to serve the Noble Sangha.
Is this a dedication?

Keep the wish that everyone have a share in the fruits yielded by meritorious deeds performed by me (even if I know that this is impossible).


Is this sharing merits?

 _/\_

It was probably not well pointed out by my person. One is the recipient, one is a dedication. The recipent might be also the object of dedication "may so-and-so receive it", while giving to someone who might be not the physical targed for now. Mental, if it can be expected that it might come to the final recipient, it's good to hold on the final dedication.

Sharing merits means to give (possible all, starting by one parents, teacher... devas... all beings) others the change to rejoice by getting known ones good deeds. For someone capaple to receive this offer, to rejoice with it, he/she takes part on it, is able, by the act of joy with it, to make the same merits, or even higher, just by getting this chance. A practice, especially verbal and physical, not very usuall and welcome in modern world.

Some more detail explainings are given here Re: Sharing merits - Freude teilen (pattanumodana & pattidana) [Forum Guide] (not all in english for now, maybe tomorrow a try for an english Audio on it).

With the giving of the share (mudita) one possible reaches, by giving even ones merits, the Brahmarealm, if not even more already by having the Noble Sangha firm and right in mind.

Just to mention: to give the share of good, possible best accessable for all, means that it might costs ones honor of those not happy on seeing good deeds, which is why people often do not like to make it hear and visible. (Some old friends might think: 'look he has gone cracy.' or don't like the recipient to gain.) That's "vanna maccharia " which hinders here, stingyness in regard of ones estimate/honor. And Atma therefor suggests to cut off the certain post on it, to share the merits of Dhammalistening and Dhammatalk.

So in two ways here regarded: in words and practical doing to see, investigate, and know for one self.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 08:36:18 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: Sharing merits and dedication of merits
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2018, 08:21:56 PM »
If having done in this way and released, given totally, if not having gained path or fruit (meaning, there is still a certain hold on it), this hold, a refine (a remembering "I used to do such a deed"), can be used everywhere and all the time to gain access-concentration , in "Reflecting ones generosity", and later fill the pot to gain path and fruit.

The "wordily sideeffects", of in this case being gifted by receiving Dhamma in the future, and longlive, beauty, happiness and strength (now, later, in existences which might come) are nevertheless be garanted to fall back to one according ones deeds and proper soil to ripe.

It's, if not so-called "Anfänger-Glück" (beginner-luck) something to train and do it again and again, to place the ball perfect into the basket.

So-called beginner are not beginner, and there are cases where given faith suddendly turns to firm doubtlessness.

Mudita

(And an recipient, having accepted, if not direct the target, has nothing but burdens to bring it to it's aim, either physical or by becoming the target... while the giver simply gains release :) lucky, from objectivity in the realms, those who can make merits and not required to live on other ones merits for now, having everywhere to danger to increase debts, which of course pulling toward the object of the gift, even if a hard.)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 08:40:23 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Danilo

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Re: Sharing merits and dedication of merits
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2018, 03:41:15 AM »
Then, if I got it right, give a dedication is similarly to concede ownership.
Is it supposed to have a notice to be attached to the work when give the dedication or is it just a mind state issue?

Just to mention: to give the share of good, possible best accessable for all, means that it might costs ones honor of those not happy on seeing good deeds, which is why people often do not like to make it hear and visible. (Some old friends might think: 'look he has gone cracy.' or don't like the recipient to gain.) That's "vanna maccharia " which hinders here, stingyness in regard of ones estimate/honor. And Atma therefor suggests to cut off the certain post on it, to share the merits of Dhammalistening and Dhammatalk.
So in two ways here regarded: in words and practical doing to see, investigate, and know for one self.

If having done in this way and released, given totally, if not having gained path or fruit (meaning, there is still a certain hold on it), this hold, a refine (a remembering "I used to do such a deed"), can be used everywhere and all the time to gain access-concentration , in "Reflecting ones generosity", and later fill the pot to gain path and fruit.

The "wordily sideeffects", of in this case being gifted by receiving Dhamma in the future, and longlive, beauty, happiness and strength (now, later, in existences which might come) are nevertheless be garanted to fall back to one according ones deeds and proper soil to ripe.

It's, if not so-called "Anfänger-Glück" (beginner-luck) something to train and do it again and again, to place the ball perfect into the basket.

So-called beginner are not beginner, and there are cases where given faith suddendly turns to firm doubtlessness.

Mudita

(And an recipient, having accepted, if not direct the target, has nothing but burdens to bring it to it's aim, either physical or by becoming the target... while the giver simply gains release :) lucky, from objectivity in the realms, those who can make merits and not required to live on other ones merits for now, having everywhere to danger to increase debts, which of course pulling toward the object of the gift, even if a hard.)

I'm having a hard time trying to fully grasp what Ven. Johann wanted to mean in this parts. :'( Since is a crucial matter, I would be thankful if Bhante could explain again.  _/\_

Offline Johann

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Re: Sharing merits and dedication of merits
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2018, 05:54:57 AM »
* "concede ownership": yes

Since at least the mind, intentions count, it is (at least) not necessary to visible (by signs) proclaim a dedicatation, but that the receiver is able to accept (knowing "it's given to me, I can do something with it"), or to reject, (is not able to take because not being the assumed recipient, or not able to fullfill the wishes attached to it).
In short, that others are clear of your act and wish. As for a monk to be able to reveive, the personal physical giving into ones had, and/or giving by speech are necessary.

So the act of giving is practiced in three ways of actions, by mind (letting go & wish), by speech (informing of what giving, to whom, for what purpose) and the physical act, the handing over (with two hands) and waiting till it has been taken.

Has been taken: if physical transfering into ones hand is not possible, an expression of "Sadhu" or "it has been received" gives indication. Monks would sometimes stay silent if personal physical given.

So also for oneself, certain verbal and physical actions of the recipient are useful to have no doubts that it was received.

Althought all can be made without expressions, just by thinking, it's a very risky thing and everybody knows what troubles assumings or in trust can bring, both for giver and perceiver. That is why it is traditional made always very "formal" and not like mostly and very usual in modern days in a "cool" way.

* The secound part, release and results.

If a gift was given without, what the Buddha called "a adorment for the mind", if it is fully not only physical released, it has been the act of highest giving.

If certain wishes for it, certain toughts, what ever, are still attached, it lead to that aim. For example, if one desires to gain certain refined reward, as to be happy, or become a Deva... what ever, it leads to that.

How ever perfect the act was, it stays an according source to remember on it, to gain certain joy, eg. concentration, later. The more and often made, the easier one can access this source of joy, having more and more inclination to the joy gained by giving.

* the act of sharing merits, is not only a aspiration out of compassion for (all) others, but works additionaly agains stingyness and envy.
Althought it can be made also just mental, doing it verbal and physical as well, is the better and more effective way, like by giving, to let there be no doubt and best possibilities for the recipient.

Since also here, the complete path and depending co-arising can be found and traced, it is as simple as complex. It really should not burden in any present undertakings, but just be considered and addopted of what can be seen as benefical, or simply start the usual way, beginning outwardly and go then into mind.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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Johann

Today at 03:52:00 PM
Nyom Roman and Bhantes family will be surely happy and good that Bhante does not need to get much involved directly.
 

Cheav Villa

Today at 03:40:07 PM
Kuna Prah Ang
 _/\_
The Kathina will be holding on Sat 17 and Sun 18. I kuna will meet both of Bhante Sreng and Bhante Khemearakuma to imform all about this, incl sharing much pictures.
 

Johann

Today at 03:14:40 PM
Good if Nyom could explain Bhante Sreng how to use the online monastery. Sadhu! A topic on Bhante Khemakumaras going forth can be found here . Good also if informing and share date of Kathina at Wat Ayom, and much pictures to share
 

Cheav Villa

Today at 02:55:43 PM
Kuna Prah Ang,
As I kuna knowing that Prah Ang Khemareakuma
was staying in Ork Yum Pagoda.
This Saturday or Sunday I kuna would join the Kathin there, but now I kuna will send some about Bhante Khemareakuma via FB Prah Ang Sreng.
 

Johann

Today at 02:37:46 PM
Nyom Roman, Nyom Villa asked if she can help in something in regard of Bhante. Best when you talk in a new topic.
 

Johann

Today at 02:36:12 PM
Nyom Roman , Bhantes twin brother and his family asked how Bhante is. They miss him much and Bhante praisworthy focus on practice.
 

Cheav Villa

Today at 02:27:20 PM
ព្រះអង្គ  _/\_
តើខ្ញុំកូណានឹងអាចជួយអ្វីខ្លះអ្វីអំពីព្រះអង្គ​ Khemareakuma?
 

Cheav Villa

Today at 02:15:11 PM
ជំរាបសួរលោក​ Moritz
_/\_
 

Cheav Villa

Today at 02:12:59 PM
កូណាមិនបានដឹងទេ ព្រះអង្គ​
 

Moritz

Today at 02:12:36 PM
ជំរាបសួរ Cheav Villa _/\_
 

Moritz

Today at 02:12:29 PM
Auf Wiedersehen, Roman. Ich schreibe dir noch zurück per E-Mail und mache hier am besten noch ein Thema auf für später.

_/\_
 

Johann

Today at 02:03:05 PM
Does Nyom Villa know Bhante Khemakumaras twin brother?
 

Johann

Today at 02:01:43 PM
Eine Reihe der neuen Mitglieder hier, Nyom Villa, Puthy... sind öfter in Kontakt und in den Klöstern Ayum und in Phnom Penh. Mag sein, daß jemand von den Upasikas kürzlich Kontakt hatte. Gut auch wenn Nyom guten Kontakt zu anderen Laien vor Ort Pflegt, hallo sagt...
 

Roman

Today at 02:01:26 PM
ich danke ihnen Johann und Motiz für die informationen und unterstützung.
 ich muss  jetzt weiter. ich  wünsche allen einen friedevolle tag
 

Johann

Today at 01:46:29 PM
Ein paar generelle und erklärende Worte zum Thema Unterstützen hier: If willing to help the child, the "poor" the new, give to it's master, father!
 

Johann

Today at 01:41:23 PM
Atma denkt, kann aber auch sein, daß er anderwo lernt. Einweiser ist die Person, die einen neuen Mönch einweist, und kommt einem Vater gleich. Bhante Indannano ist Bhantes Einweiser (Upajjhāya). (Hier übrigens das Thema zu "Unte
 

Roman

Today at 01:36:35 PM
Und wie geht es Ihnen Johann? wo sind sie untergebracht?
 

Roman

Today at 01:34:00 PM
Bhante Khemakumara ist jetzt in Takeo bei Bhante Indannanno soweit ich mitbekommen habe ja? welche bedeutung hat ein Einweiser?
 

Johann

Today at 01:31:47 PM
Siehe Mountain kuti-sāmaggī weekend, Thmo Duk, end of last Rain-month 2018. . Bhante ist, wenn im Wat (Kloster) Ayum , sicher gut umsorgt von allen Seiten.
 

Johann

Today at 01:27:18 PM
Seit seinem Mitziehen mit seinem Einweiser soweit nichts gehört und wird, denkt Atma, vertieft in der Praxis sein. Nächste Woche kommt Bhante Indannano mit seinen Schülern. Vielleicht kommt Bhante Khemakumara auch mit.
 

Roman

Today at 01:22:13 PM
wie geht es Khemakumara..dass ist sehr oft in meinen gedanken..ihn nicht direkt fragen zu können dass ist schwierig..nicht auf dem aktuellen zu sein..denke das liegt auch daran dass mich meine famile oft fragt..roman wie gehts marcel
 

Roman

Today at 01:16:20 PM
Ja Johann das werde ich meiner familie vorschlagen!
 

Johann

Today at 01:10:27 PM
Nyom Roman kann jederzeit seine Familie hier her einladen. Da mögen alle mehr Bezug zu dem Streben bekommen und können stets auch Fragen stellen.
 

Johann

Today at 01:06:07 PM
Da wart ein Forum nur für Nichtklösterliche eingerichtet, zu dem man mit gewisser Mitgliedschaft zugang hat. Mag sicher ein passender Rahmen sein für solches, um da entspannend beizutragen, oder Aramikabereich (Oberforum).
 

Roman

Today at 01:05:53 PM
Khemakumara und nicht marcel die person die sich an vergangenen haftet
 

Roman

Today at 01:04:12 PM
ehrwürdiger Johann

ja ich vermisse meinen bruder! ich berichte meiner familie von den Ereignissen..Dass is einwenig schwer für mich da familie immer über Marcel spricht und die erinnerungen hochholen wie es mal war! ich versuche ihnen auch zu erklären wie sie es mir versucht haben zu verdeutl
 

Moritz

Today at 01:00:07 PM
Ich habe deine Mail gelesen, Roman, und gerade nach einem Thema/Unterforum hier gesucht, was genau für solche Fragen gedacht war: zu erfragen/besprechen/organisieren, was man materiell beisteuern/unterstützen kann.
 

Roman

Today at 12:57:01 PM
hallo moritz und johann
 

Johann

Today at 12:52:02 PM
Nyom Roman vermißt seinen Bruder sehr und kommt aus den Abschiedthemen ganz und gar nicht raus.
 

Moritz

Today at 12:47:10 PM
Vandami Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

Today at 12:46:33 PM
Werte Herren
 

Moritz

Today at 12:43:40 PM
Hallo Roman! _/\_
 

Johann

November 11, 2018, 01:00:38 AM
Sadhu Nyom. "May the Dhamma of the Buddha, and those following, be all beings refuge for a blessed life and beyond."
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 11, 2018, 12:31:09 AM
May the Dhamma be the greatest blessing in our lives today!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 11, 2018, 12:30:17 AM
Möge heute das Dhamma der größte Segen in unserem Leben sein!
 

Johann

November 10, 2018, 03:31:36 AM
Sadhu! "May all given the right causes so that they experiance peace, prospery, friendships in their worlds today."
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 10, 2018, 02:42:15 AM
Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann,
hier gibt es einen Fehler. Nicht Mӧge, sondern Mӧgen.

Dhamma Grüβe an Sie aus Sri Lanka!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 10, 2018, 12:58:57 AM
May peace, prosperity, Friendship prevail throughout the word today!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 10, 2018, 12:58:26 AM
Mӧge heute Frieden, Wohlstand und Freundschaft auf der ganzen Welt herrschen!
 

Johann

November 08, 2018, 01:40:21 AM
May all those having not observed the new-moon Uposata yesterday take the chance of this day.
 

Johann

November 07, 2018, 01:52:42 AM
Sadhu! "May I, may all, give the causes, act in way, that I, that all, experiance a blissfull day."
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 07, 2018, 12:36:19 AM
May today be a blissful day!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 07, 2018, 12:35:13 AM
Mӧge der heutige Tag ein glückseliger Tag sein!
 

Cheav Villa

November 06, 2018, 02:57:08 PM
Sandhu!
 

Johann

November 06, 2018, 12:41:22 AM
Sadhu. "May I, may all, use this day to give themselves causes for long lasting happines."
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 06, 2018, 12:17:34 AM
May today be a meritful and meritorious day!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 06, 2018, 12:16:58 AM
Mӧge der heutige Tag ein verdienstvoller und verdienstlicher Tag sein!
 

Johann

November 05, 2018, 09:16:58 AM
Sadhu
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 05, 2018, 01:41:57 AM
May today be a day of insight!                                                                        
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 05, 2018, 01:41:24 AM
Mӧge der heutige Tag ein Tag der Einsicht sein!

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