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[Buddha]

Author Topic: [Q&A] Why are Monks not given to grow their own food? (Right livelihood)  (Read 552 times)

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Offline Johann

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May a possible physical touch of the answer provoke, by having upright proper attention, confidence and wisdom to be grown.

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

  _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community  _/\_ , my person tries to answer this question. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,

 *sgift*

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

May a possible physical touch by the answer provoke - while having arousen proper attention - confidence and wisdom to be grown

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

  _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community  _/\_ , my person tries to answer this question. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,

 *sgift*

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

All beings, all live sustain on nourishment, physical and mental and: all nutrition has been life before. Something one should be clear about and reflect on it, to gain the essence of the topic.

Physical food, to maintain a physical body, is one of the four nutritions of live . To lead a life the attaining of nutrition is necessary and the way and mode to gain the necessary food is called livelihood, either physical or mental.

There is the case where a son of good family arrives at the thought: "The householder life is a dusty road, full of corrupt ways, not easy to maintain a remorseless state, not conductive to lead the holly life fully, for the sake of well-being of oneself and all others. What if I leave the home and go into homelessness?" Those thought, he shaves his hair, takes on the safran robs and alms bowl and leaves home. (e.g. he looks after joining the Sangha of the Noble Ones, the order of the Buddha, if existing and avaliable in the world.)

Right livelihood is the way of maintaining the supply of ones necessary requisites (food, cloth, shelter, medicine) in line with right action. Right action comes from right resolve or right intention , of which origins from right view or understanding: seeing suffering, it's origin, it's cessation and the path of training leading to cessation (e.g. the Four Noble Truth

The life as "special" beggar provides the highest kid of livelihood possible for beings, to maintain a most possible remorseless state, making it possible to gain right concentration, insight and release.

Right resolve includes three qualities:
  • 1. Intended to renouncing (withdraw, giving, let go)
  • 2. Harmlessness (not intended to harm or get involved in harming others)
  • 3. Conflictlessness (intended to avoid conflicts and struggles)


The costume of livelihood of the Noble Ones provided the modes for the Holly Life. And for those in training, to fight against the ways of defilements, there have been set out rules or allowings, to be guided to train within the mode of livelihood, even if the source (right view, right intention) is not clearly seen yet, as a training, one voluntary - by acceptance - sticks to.

Since the mode of life of one gone forth in the homelessness disciple of the Buddha, the Bhagavata, is a different, in aim and way, to the usuall, one who gained acceptence from the Sangha of Bhikkhus (became a full member of the community) has to be introduced, right after the ordination, that one aspect of maintaining ones requisites, food, has to be maintained by living on alms.

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

“Going-Forth has alms-food as its support. For the rest of your life you are to endeavor at that.

“The extra allowances are: a meal for the Saṅgha, a meal for a specific number of monks, a meal for monks invited by name, a meal given by tickets, a meal given fortnightly, a meal on the Uposatha day, a meal on the day after the Uposatha.
Quote from: The Four Supports

Aside of special occations, the daily walk for alms is one of the main signs of a homeless disciple of the Buddha, different of a householders life.

It's maybe good to understand that all right life in going forth, includes this mode, while Bhikkhus take it also formal as their frame of training.

It's the costume of the Noble ones, all Arahats, Buddhas, and Single-Awakened, has been, and will be, to live from the alms of the land, going with alms bowl in the morning in villages and settlements, receive the gift of those people with wisdom and generosity, to return then into remote area to take their only meal before noon and abound the left over after finishing the meal.

The holly life is designed to practice the path for liberation from dependency, by giving oneselve fully into outwardly dependency, a kind of dependency which is conductive for liberation, a dependency which has the intent to give release as well: A life of living on what is given without strings which pulling back, incl. remorse caused by improper ways in harming and getting involved in acts of harm by ones intentions and certain desires.

Aside of the costume to live on alms, there are certain other costums and precepts which have the reason of not getting involved into the preparation of a meal and the gain of the food itself.

Not getting involved into possible harming and killing bu intention (harmlessness, right resolve):

* not digging soil (to aviod to destroy life)
* not damaging plant life, incl. seeds (even picking fruits from Plants)
* not asking or hinting for specific food, trade, buying or let it have been organised.

Another aspect of the design of the Holly live is the renouncing from sensual pleasure (of which is the main reason for misconducts and harm) and renouncing from desire for controll (again, one aspect of right intention)

  • more than a fill of the alms bowl will not be excepted
  • while consuming the alms, the purpose of needs to be reflected
  • luxory and items for sensual pleasures are not to be accepted or consumed for such purpose


The mode of living provides also with as less as necessary business with organization and maintaining of requisites, and the livelihood displays a live of a wanderer, not intended to seek for a home in this world.

To be most flexible and not bound outwardly, one does not own much, does not carry much. And so the storage of food, as one aspect of accumulation for a resistance purpose, is as well something to be not done. Not to speak of the whole infrastructure and tools for prepearing meals for oneself, even for the cases where raw food and items would be given.

So those leading the holly live also by

* abstain from receiving raw food, corps and meat
* abstain from storing food
* consume received food this very day and abound the rest

By not really getting in charge of control, not unnecessary desiring for regulating outwardly conditions, by using the food proper and takes only what is given, one lives also in the frame of being intended to conflictlessness.

Any other way of livelihood by desiring this or that to gain or maintain, aside of the really necessary, would lead to inwardly and outwardly conflicts.

It's maybe also good to explicit mention of which is not the purpose of eating and of what it is. So a monk in traing will reflect (causing a missconduct if doing not when using the support of foof):

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

Wisely reflecting I will partake of food not for pleasure of it, not for the pride (resulting from physical strength obtainable), not for adornment, not for beautifying the body, but merely to maintain this body, to still the hunger, and to enable the practice of the holy life; also to resist the pangs of hunger (due to previous want of food), and to resist the pain (resulting from excess of food). Thus will my life be maintained free from wrong doing and free from discomfort.

Again, at least, the more one falls into the illusion of being able to control, desires for control and takes on means to control, such requires to ignore right view, the reality of depencency and will lead to what ever kind of wrong sense of independency.

While the world and it's ordinary beings are after gaining control and independency by accumulation of outwardly things, fighting and struggling with each others, those with certain amout of right view, or firm faith, use the means of giving, abstaining and let go of outwardly controll and independency, to uproot the very cause of dependency and controllessness within ones very heart.

In this way, by living of what is given, a person living the Holly Life for the sake of liberation, or having gained this mode of life already naturally, becomes part of the great field of merits where wise and liberal being are able to work on their future conditions, putting their sacrifies into the bound of compassion and liberation, no more destined to cause harm for anyone in the world, directed to the Unbound.

In ways of sustaining oneself with alms food, one is on one hand always in a proper distance to others, not requiring socialisation or subtile trade. Furthermore one is not and does not become a burden for others, who are probably willing to care for one. So laypeople as well as monks have most possible freedom and can act on generosity as they wish to do. In this kind of staying somehow unrelated, it is possible to give and teach Dhamma without strings and dangers of corruption and the near danger of possible teaching for a favor if using other modes of livelihood.

As mentioned at the beginning, aside in the case where a monks train in the voluntary rule not to receive food except on alms round and not at the place where he dwells (two of the so called 13 Dudonga-rules) monks occationally receive food be donors who are visiting them at their dwelling place (monastery or what ever).

Living in dependency of alms secures also the opening for others to follow the highest mode of live, by getting in contact at proper time and occasion, with the costums of the Noble Ones and alternative ways to usually being destined to oldage, sickness, and death. So by going for alms monks also provide with the possibility for others to meet the fourth heavenly messenger , the Samana, seeking for a life in tune and for liberation from suffering, out of compassion for oneselve and all other being, while using the most harmless way of making a living. Like the Buddha met and gained a strong vision of going beyound, after seeing the fourth heavenly messager, after oldadge sickness and death.

My person will end this short explaining of why are monks "not allowed" to cook, not to grow their food themselves, if intented for good for themselves and other and the maintaining of Arahats and the great field of merits in this world, with some encouragements of the Buddha at the end of his life:

 

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa


The Traditions of the Noble Ones

These four traditions of the Noble Ones — original, long-standing, traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning — are not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and are unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives and brahmans. Which four?

There is the case where a monk is content with any old robe cloth at all. He speaks in praise of being content with any old robe cloth at all. He does not, for the sake of robe cloth, do anything unseemly or inappropriate. Not getting cloth, he is not agitated. Getting cloth, he uses it not tied to it, uninfatuated, guiltless, seeing the drawbacks (of attachment to it), and discerning the escape from them. He does not, on account of his contentment with any old robe cloth at all, exalt himself or disparage others. In this he is skillful, energetic, alert, and mindful. This, monks, is said to be a monk standing firm in the ancient, original traditions of the Noble Ones.

Furthermore, the monk is content with any old almsfood at all. He speaks in praise of being content with any old almsfood at all. He does not, for the sake of almsfood, do anything unseemly or inappropriate. Not getting almsfood, he is not agitated. Getting almsfood, he uses it not tied to it, uninfatuated, guiltless, seeing the drawbacks (of attachment to it), and discerning the escape from them. He does not, on account of his contentment with any old almsfood at all, exalt himself or disparage others. In this he is skillful, energetic, alert, and mindful. This, monks, is said to be a monk standing firm in the ancient, original traditions of the Noble Ones.

Furthermore, the monk is content with any old lodging at all. He speaks in praise of being content with any old lodging at all. He does not, for the sake of lodging, do anything unseemly or inappropriate. Not getting lodging, he is not agitated. Getting lodging, he uses it not tied to it, uninfatuated, guiltless, seeing the drawbacks (of attachment to it), and discerning the escape from them. He does not, on account of his contentment with any old lodging at all, exalt himself or disparage others. In this he is skillful, energetic, alert, and mindful. This, monks, is said to be a monk standing firm in the ancient, original traditions of the Noble Ones.

Furthermore, the monk finds pleasure and delight in developing (skillful mental qualities), finds pleasure and delight in abandoning (unskillful mental qualities). He does not, on account of his pleasure and delight in developing and abandoning, exalt himself or disparage others. In this he is skillful, energetic, alert, and mindful. This, monks, is said to be a monk standing firm in the ancient, original traditions of the Noble Ones.

These are the four traditions of the Noble Ones — original, long-standing, traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning — which are not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and are unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives and brahmans.

And furthermore, a monk endowed with these four traditions of the Noble Ones, if he lives in the east, conquers displeasure and is not conquered by displeasure. If he lives in the west... the north... the south, he conquers displeasure and is not conquered by displeasure. Why is that? Because the wise one endures both pleasure and displeasure.

This is what the Blessed One said. Having said this, he said further:


Displeasure does not conquer the enlightened one.
Displeasure does not suppress him.
He conquers displeasure
because he endures it.

Having cast away all deeds:

who could obstruct him?
Like an ornament of finest gold:
Who is fit to find fault with him?
Even the Devas praise him,
even by Brahma is he praised.

— AN 4.28

Future Dangers

Monks, these five future dangers, unarisen at present, will arise in the future. Be alert to them and, being alert, work to get rid of them. Which five?

There will be, in the course of the future, monks desirous of fine robes. They, desirous of fine robes, will neglect the practice of wearing cast-off cloth; will neglect isolated forest and wilderness dwellings; will move to towns, cities, and royal capitals, taking up residence there. For the sake of a robe they will do many kinds of unseemly, inappropriate things.

This, monks, is the first future danger, unarisen at present, that will arise in the future. Be alert to it and, being alert, work to get rid of it.

Furthermore, in the course of the future there will be monks desirous of fine food. They, desirous of fine food, will neglect the practice of going for alms; will neglect isolated forest and wilderness dwellings; will move to towns, cities, and royal capitals, taking up residence there and searching out the tip-top tastes with the tip of the tongue. For the sake of food they will do many kinds of unseemly, inappropriate things.

This, monks, is the second future danger, unarisen at present, that will arise in the future. Be alert to it and, being alert, work to get rid of it.

Furthermore, in the course of the future there will be monks desirous of fine lodgings. They, desirous of fine lodgings, will neglect the practice of living in the wilds; will neglect isolated forest and wilderness dwellings; will move to towns, cities, and royal capitals, taking up residence there. For the sake of lodgings they will do many kinds of unseemly, inappropriate things.

This, monks, is the third future danger, unarisen at present, that will arise in the future. Be alert to it and, being alert, work to get rid of it.

Furthermore, in the course of the future there will be monks who will live in close association with nuns, female probationers, and female novices. As they interact with nuns, female probationers, and female novices, they can be expected either to lead the holy life dissatisfied or to fall into one of the grosser offenses, leaving the training, returning to a lower way of life.

This, monks, is the fourth future danger, unarisen at present, that will arise in the future. Be alert to it and, being alert, work to get rid of it.

Furthermore, in the course of the future there will be monks who will live in close association with monastery attendants and novices. As they interact with monastery attendants and novices, they can be expected to live intent on storing up all kinds of possessions and to stake out crops and fields. This is the fifth future danger...

This, monks, is the fifth future danger, unarisen at present, that will arise in the future. Be alert to it and, being alert, work to get rid of it.

These, monks, are the five future dangers, unarisen at present, that will arise in the future. Be alert to them and, being alert, work to get rid of them.

— AN 5.80




Anumodana.

« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 07:03:50 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Aramika   *

Ein oder mehrer Beiträge wurden hier im Thema abgeschnitten und damit in neues Thema "[F&A] Lebensunterhalt der Mönche-Warum ziehen sie ihre Nahrung nicht selbst? " eröffnet, dem angehäng.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Johann

October 17, 2018, 06:01:23 PM
May all spend meritorious/good and higher last hours of this Sila-day.

Sokh chomreoun (may well being be developed [by everyone])
 

Johann

October 16, 2018, 03:15:10 PM
Nyom Roman.
 

Johann

October 12, 2018, 04:13:16 PM
Good to see Nyom Norum.
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 10:38:10 AM
Maybe of support for lasting satifaction: Seeds of Becoming .
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 06:57:38 AM
When ever love arises, dislike will be it's end. Who ever seeks out for friends, will get his enemy. Why? Because not willing to leave home. May wanderer gus find the way to never return. Mudita

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:58 AM
Vandami.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:22 AM
Nevertheless my courage of active participation  has been fallen down. Anyway I hope to come time to time.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam khamata me bhante.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:37:11 AM
Okasa bhante,

I didn't accepted Dymitros invitation to start a Theravada forum, because I thought this forum is pure Theravada. Now I regret about it, yet think this forum is comparatively good.  I learnt many valuable things from you and grateful to you. Nevertheless my courage of active partici
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 02:20:29 AM
What ever one searches for, that he/she will find. Less are those seeing the nature of combined thing, leaving home and go beyond Maras domain.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:45:18 PM
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:39:12 PM
When one is born in outer regions ... your island has drifted away.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:30:00 PM
macchariya, a boarder hard to cross to the middle way, abounding home, sakayaditthi, doubt and rituals.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:33:02 PM
However much one say, West is West, East is East.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 02:28:29 PM
Where ever there is east, there is west. And vici versa. Where ever there is nama, there is rupa. Where ever one seeks for a home, there he will suffer.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:03:31 PM
West is West

gus

October 06, 2018, 09:56:42 AM
belief of kamma, gratitude, independence, honesty, devotion : These are hard to find in people
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:49:14 AM
Again, a latin proverb mit be useful: Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi , patisota is always harmful if not just one own defilements or having a proper stand to help. Sota is the virtue required to resist in borderlands.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:41:52 AM
If in a borderland it's better to simply serve and support the Sangha. It's not smart to seek for other householders to nurish on traced imperfections of something required to uphold, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 04:54:48 AM
Okasa, happy to hear such things reagarding kamma. Many monks I have met don't directly speak about kamma because they have been tired after practicing some years and now bit relaxed.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:17:26 AM
Such can be total kusala and total akusala or simply defuse. Set your mind right and be mindful, that nothing will be of harm for yourself and others.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:15:27 AM
There is nothing not permitted. Merits or demerits are the actors responsibility. One is full in charge of ones action in this Domain here, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 03:50:00 AM
Bhante, is it permitted to ask questions or post things on behalf of other/future people ?

gus

October 05, 2018, 09:19:32 AM
We have been advised like this:
"No matter however much monks reject you,
Never leave the place."
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 09:09:37 AM
It's good when wanderer gus takes a rest, turns to a lonly place, enjoys the merits done and find a good place for his mind and fixes possible open wholes when clear where he likes to go some hours later.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 08:59:03 AM
Wanderer Gus knows how foolish this statement is. That is not the way to get out of a hole.

gus

October 05, 2018, 08:42:59 AM
okasa,
falling down from a status is suffering.
So, if I could stay in the hell-being status from the beginning, then no suffering.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:33:20 AM
From a state of a young Bhikkhu equal tradition...to householder... ...asura (now) on the border to animal, peta, hell-state. It can go quick if not having firm nissaya.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:29:27 AM
Aniccam vatta samsara...

gus

October 05, 2018, 06:56:28 AM
Evolution:
Bhante subhuti =>
Upasaka gus =>
Deva gus =>
Asura gus.

In the future:
Asura gus =>
Peta gus =>
Animal gus =>
Hell-being gus ???

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:51:42 AM
Okasa, I think bhante thinks me as a patriot because of some content of my posts. But it is not.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 05:41:33 AM
What ever one likes to, not touched like the moon, does not mean to praise what is blameworthy and vici-versa and to have metta not to let people run into hell if ways can be pointed out. Yet other choices at least are their. Be quick, your island drifts away!

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:34:15 AM
Okasa,
As long as I don't do exactly what you say, I think I'll not be able to make you happy or satisfied.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 02:12:55 PM
If thinking that this is for sure, if delighting in believing that connected things are a refuge and give space to rest: one may do so. Ones own choice. When ever one stops to nurish inwardly, ouwardly path and fruits die. Good as well as bad.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:28:51 AM
If bhante didn't let the weak person to live in avatar/deva mode, then he will lose both openness and connection. Up to now I have secured at least the connection.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:22:24 AM
Yet I appreciate and pay vandana for your care and advice on openness.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:19:56 AM
Please forgive me  bhante if I have made you tired. I don't like to accumulate akusala by making a monk tired in expecting a naughty chicken to be a good duck.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam Khamtu me bhante!
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:07:06 AM
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:01:00 AM
Differnt asked "why is Bhante not happy, dwell not in outwardly seeming being not touched?" Because it would not only confirm and show sign of aggreement of unwise acts, but also very incompassionate and cruel. Also place for suspecting corrupt ways and invite others to follow the comfortable dwelli
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:54:12 AM
No one is able to make my person angry, which does not mean that he would not appear angry so to possible prevent from doing what is not conductive for liberation, even lead in lower states. Nothing to worry, but also no invitation to test it foolish since it could hurt one self and others.

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:46:39 AM
Okasa bhante, Isn't there at least single way to stay anonymous without making you angry?
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:33:12 AM
corr: "it's, the domain of the Noble Ones, is nobody's personal domain" there are no wards around fields for merits and no tickets to pay
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:29:31 AM
What ever Deva gus feels inspired. It's oneones personal domain and all giving is good in the distance of the brigh cool moon. One should not fear, should not be shy to do what is good and praised by the wise but be quick!

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:21:39 AM
Bhante, is that mean you don't like me to talk about higher subjects and like to talk about basics only?
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:02:12 AM
It would be more than good if teaching others a lot on the topic vandami (paying respect) and khamatu (asking for forgiviness) since unknown and not practiced here around this field of merits in compassion to former relatives, Deva gus.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:55:38 AM
...total no problem to dwell and lay down in the cool shadow to heal at all and no need to ask for pardon when intended for progressing and to get fit for the battles so hard to win.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:52:39 AM
But they would not feed them in ways which might look as nurishing relations for wordly sake directly, for people not understanding would think "look, he is herding, carry for his cattle, he wasts the gift of the land, the heritage of the Gems for his becoming and own gain. Understood? Total no prob
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:45:29 AM
Never would people of integrity send away pets, petas or sick, for they are not able to change for now but possible can gain of what they need to change.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:42:28 AM
If, just to think about, one lives deliberatly with sign showing a rejection of firm trust in kamma, one lives in nurishing the danger of falling into grave wrong views and give ways that others follow what is improper to do. Just to reflect. How ever wishing to do.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:36:03 AM
What ever one does, holds as refuge or abounds, either good or bad refuge, one does for one self. Ones own choices, ones own fruits, ones own limitations, hindrences.

gus

October 04, 2018, 09:28:15 AM
Khamatu me bhante!
My previous  post was this.
"Please forgive me and give birth to kindness ao as to let me live here anonymous "

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