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[Buddha]

Author Topic: [Q&A] Why are Monks not given to grow their own food? (Right livelihood)  (Read 407 times)

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Offline Johann

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May a possible physical touch of the answer provoke, by having upright proper attention, confidence and wisdom to be grown.

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

  _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community  _/\_ , my person tries to answer this question. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,

 *sgift*

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

May a possible physical touch by the answer provoke - while having arousen proper attention - confidence and wisdom to be grown

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

  _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community  _/\_ , my person tries to answer this question. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,

 *sgift*

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

All beings, all live sustain on nourishment, physical and mental and: all nutrition has been life before. Something one should be clear about and reflect on it, to gain the essence of the topic.

Physical food, to maintain a physical body, is one of the four nutritions of live . To lead a life the attaining of nutrition is necessary and the way and mode to gain the necessary food is called livelihood, either physical or mental.

There is the case where a son of good family arrives at the thought: "The householder life is a dusty road, full of corrupt ways, not easy to maintain a remorseless state, not conductive to lead the holly life fully, for the sake of well-being of oneself and all others. What if I leave the home and go into homelessness?" Those thought, he shaves his hair, takes on the safran robs and alms bowl and leaves home. (e.g. he looks after joining the Sangha of the Noble Ones, the order of the Buddha, if existing and avaliable in the world.)

Right livelihood is the way of maintaining the supply of ones necessary requisites (food, cloth, shelter, medicine) in line with right action. Right action comes from right resolve or right intention , of which origins from right view or understanding: seeing suffering, it's origin, it's cessation and the path of training leading to cessation (e.g. the Four Noble Truth

The life as "special" beggar provides the highest kid of livelihood possible for beings, to maintain a most possible remorseless state, making it possible to gain right concentration, insight and release.

Right resolve includes three qualities:
  • 1. Intended to renouncing (withdraw, giving, let go)
  • 2. Harmlessness (not intended to harm or get involved in harming others)
  • 3. Conflictlessness (intended to avoid conflicts and struggles)


The costume of livelihood of the Noble Ones provided the modes for the Holly Life. And for those in training, to fight against the ways of defilements, there have been set out rules or allowings, to be guided to train within the mode of livelihood, even if the source (right view, right intention) is not clearly seen yet, as a training, one voluntary - by acceptance - sticks to.

Since the mode of life of one gone forth in the homelessness disciple of the Buddha, the Bhagavata, is a different, in aim and way, to the usuall, one who gained acceptence from the Sangha of Bhikkhus (became a full member of the community) has to be introduced, right after the ordination, that one aspect of maintaining ones requisites, food, has to be maintained by living on alms.

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

“Going-Forth has alms-food as its support. For the rest of your life you are to endeavor at that.

“The extra allowances are: a meal for the Saṅgha, a meal for a specific number of monks, a meal for monks invited by name, a meal given by tickets, a meal given fortnightly, a meal on the Uposatha day, a meal on the day after the Uposatha.
Quote from: The Four Supports

Aside of special occations, the daily walk for alms is one of the main signs of a homeless disciple of the Buddha, different of a householders life.

It's maybe good to understand that all right life in going forth, includes this mode, while Bhikkhus take it also formal as their frame of training.

It's the costume of the Noble ones, all Arahats, Buddhas, and Single-Awakened, has been, and will be, to live from the alms of the land, going with alms bowl in the morning in villages and settlements, receive the gift of those people with wisdom and generosity, to return then into remote area to take their only meal before noon and abound the left over after finishing the meal.

The holly life is designed to practice the path for liberation from dependency, by giving oneselve fully into outwardly dependency, a kind of dependency which is conductive for liberation, a dependency which has the intent to give release as well: A life of living on what is given without strings which pulling back, incl. remorse caused by improper ways in harming and getting involved in acts of harm by ones intentions and certain desires.

Aside of the costume to live on alms, there are certain other costums and precepts which have the reason of not getting involved into the preparation of a meal and the gain of the food itself.

Not getting involved into possible harming and killing bu intention (harmlessness, right resolve):

* not digging soil (to aviod to destroy life)
* not damaging plant life, incl. seeds (even picking fruits from Plants)
* not asking or hinting for specific food, trade, buying or let it have been organised.

Another aspect of the design of the Holly live is the renouncing from sensual pleasure (of which is the main reason for misconducts and harm) and renouncing from desire for controll (again, one aspect of right intention)

  • more than a fill of the alms bowl will not be excepted
  • while consuming the alms, the purpose of needs to be reflected
  • luxory and items for sensual pleasures are not to be accepted or consumed for such purpose


The mode of living provides also with as less as necessary business with organization and maintaining of requisites, and the livelihood displays a live of a wanderer, not intended to seek for a home in this world.

To be most flexible and not bound outwardly, one does not own much, does not carry much. And so the storage of food, as one aspect of accumulation for a resistance purpose, is as well something to be not done. Not to speak of the whole infrastructure and tools for prepearing meals for oneself, even for the cases where raw food and items would be given.

So those leading the holly live also by

* abstain from receiving raw food, corps and meat
* abstain from storing food
* consume received food this very day and abound the rest

By not really getting in charge of control, not unnecessary desiring for regulating outwardly conditions, by using the food proper and takes only what is given, one lives also in the frame of being intended to conflictlessness.

Any other way of livelihood by desiring this or that to gain or maintain, aside of the really necessary, would lead to inwardly and outwardly conflicts.

It's maybe also good to explicit mention of which is not the purpose of eating and of what it is. So a monk in traing will reflect (causing a missconduct if doing not when using the support of foof):

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

Wisely reflecting I will partake of food not for pleasure of it, not for the pride (resulting from physical strength obtainable), not for adornment, not for beautifying the body, but merely to maintain this body, to still the hunger, and to enable the practice of the holy life; also to resist the pangs of hunger (due to previous want of food), and to resist the pain (resulting from excess of food). Thus will my life be maintained free from wrong doing and free from discomfort.

Again, at least, the more one falls into the illusion of being able to control, desires for control and takes on means to control, such requires to ignore right view, the reality of depencency and will lead to what ever kind of wrong sense of independency.

While the world and it's ordinary beings are after gaining control and independency by accumulation of outwardly things, fighting and struggling with each others, those with certain amout of right view, or firm faith, use the means of giving, abstaining and let go of outwardly controll and independency, to uproot the very cause of dependency and controllessness within ones very heart.

In this way, by living of what is given, a person living the Holly Life for the sake of liberation, or having gained this mode of life already naturally, becomes part of the great field of merits where wise and liberal being are able to work on their future conditions, putting their sacrifies into the bound of compassion and liberation, no more destined to cause harm for anyone in the world, directed to the Unbound.

In ways of sustaining oneself with alms food, one is on one hand always in a proper distance to others, not requiring socialisation or subtile trade. Furthermore one is not and does not become a burden for others, who are probably willing to care for one. So laypeople as well as monks have most possible freedom and can act on generosity as they wish to do. In this kind of staying somehow unrelated, it is possible to give and teach Dhamma without strings and dangers of corruption and the near danger of possible teaching for a favor if using other modes of livelihood.

As mentioned at the beginning, aside in the case where a monks train in the voluntary rule not to receive food except on alms round and not at the place where he dwells (two of the so called 13 Dudonga-rules) monks occationally receive food be donors who are visiting them at their dwelling place (monastery or what ever).

Living in dependency of alms secures also the opening for others to follow the highest mode of live, by getting in contact at proper time and occasion, with the costums of the Noble Ones and alternative ways to usually being destined to oldage, sickness, and death. So by going for alms monks also provide with the possibility for others to meet the fourth heavenly messenger , the Samana, seeking for a life in tune and for liberation from suffering, out of compassion for oneselve and all other being, while using the most harmless way of making a living. Like the Buddha met and gained a strong vision of going beyound, after seeing the fourth heavenly messager, after oldadge sickness and death.

My person will end this short explaining of why are monks "not allowed" to cook, not to grow their food themselves, if intented for good for themselves and other and the maintaining of Arahats and the great field of merits in this world, with some encouragements of the Buddha at the end of his life:

 

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa


The Traditions of the Noble Ones

These four traditions of the Noble Ones — original, long-standing, traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning — are not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and are unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives and brahmans. Which four?

There is the case where a monk is content with any old robe cloth at all. He speaks in praise of being content with any old robe cloth at all. He does not, for the sake of robe cloth, do anything unseemly or inappropriate. Not getting cloth, he is not agitated. Getting cloth, he uses it not tied to it, uninfatuated, guiltless, seeing the drawbacks (of attachment to it), and discerning the escape from them. He does not, on account of his contentment with any old robe cloth at all, exalt himself or disparage others. In this he is skillful, energetic, alert, and mindful. This, monks, is said to be a monk standing firm in the ancient, original traditions of the Noble Ones.

Furthermore, the monk is content with any old almsfood at all. He speaks in praise of being content with any old almsfood at all. He does not, for the sake of almsfood, do anything unseemly or inappropriate. Not getting almsfood, he is not agitated. Getting almsfood, he uses it not tied to it, uninfatuated, guiltless, seeing the drawbacks (of attachment to it), and discerning the escape from them. He does not, on account of his contentment with any old almsfood at all, exalt himself or disparage others. In this he is skillful, energetic, alert, and mindful. This, monks, is said to be a monk standing firm in the ancient, original traditions of the Noble Ones.

Furthermore, the monk is content with any old lodging at all. He speaks in praise of being content with any old lodging at all. He does not, for the sake of lodging, do anything unseemly or inappropriate. Not getting lodging, he is not agitated. Getting lodging, he uses it not tied to it, uninfatuated, guiltless, seeing the drawbacks (of attachment to it), and discerning the escape from them. He does not, on account of his contentment with any old lodging at all, exalt himself or disparage others. In this he is skillful, energetic, alert, and mindful. This, monks, is said to be a monk standing firm in the ancient, original traditions of the Noble Ones.

Furthermore, the monk finds pleasure and delight in developing (skillful mental qualities), finds pleasure and delight in abandoning (unskillful mental qualities). He does not, on account of his pleasure and delight in developing and abandoning, exalt himself or disparage others. In this he is skillful, energetic, alert, and mindful. This, monks, is said to be a monk standing firm in the ancient, original traditions of the Noble Ones.

These are the four traditions of the Noble Ones — original, long-standing, traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning — which are not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and are unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives and brahmans.

And furthermore, a monk endowed with these four traditions of the Noble Ones, if he lives in the east, conquers displeasure and is not conquered by displeasure. If he lives in the west... the north... the south, he conquers displeasure and is not conquered by displeasure. Why is that? Because the wise one endures both pleasure and displeasure.

This is what the Blessed One said. Having said this, he said further:


Displeasure does not conquer the enlightened one.
Displeasure does not suppress him.
He conquers displeasure
because he endures it.

Having cast away all deeds:

who could obstruct him?
Like an ornament of finest gold:
Who is fit to find fault with him?
Even the Devas praise him,
even by Brahma is he praised.

— AN 4.28

Future Dangers

Monks, these five future dangers, unarisen at present, will arise in the future. Be alert to them and, being alert, work to get rid of them. Which five?

There will be, in the course of the future, monks desirous of fine robes. They, desirous of fine robes, will neglect the practice of wearing cast-off cloth; will neglect isolated forest and wilderness dwellings; will move to towns, cities, and royal capitals, taking up residence there. For the sake of a robe they will do many kinds of unseemly, inappropriate things.

This, monks, is the first future danger, unarisen at present, that will arise in the future. Be alert to it and, being alert, work to get rid of it.

Furthermore, in the course of the future there will be monks desirous of fine food. They, desirous of fine food, will neglect the practice of going for alms; will neglect isolated forest and wilderness dwellings; will move to towns, cities, and royal capitals, taking up residence there and searching out the tip-top tastes with the tip of the tongue. For the sake of food they will do many kinds of unseemly, inappropriate things.

This, monks, is the second future danger, unarisen at present, that will arise in the future. Be alert to it and, being alert, work to get rid of it.

Furthermore, in the course of the future there will be monks desirous of fine lodgings. They, desirous of fine lodgings, will neglect the practice of living in the wilds; will neglect isolated forest and wilderness dwellings; will move to towns, cities, and royal capitals, taking up residence there. For the sake of lodgings they will do many kinds of unseemly, inappropriate things.

This, monks, is the third future danger, unarisen at present, that will arise in the future. Be alert to it and, being alert, work to get rid of it.

Furthermore, in the course of the future there will be monks who will live in close association with nuns, female probationers, and female novices. As they interact with nuns, female probationers, and female novices, they can be expected either to lead the holy life dissatisfied or to fall into one of the grosser offenses, leaving the training, returning to a lower way of life.

This, monks, is the fourth future danger, unarisen at present, that will arise in the future. Be alert to it and, being alert, work to get rid of it.

Furthermore, in the course of the future there will be monks who will live in close association with monastery attendants and novices. As they interact with monastery attendants and novices, they can be expected to live intent on storing up all kinds of possessions and to stake out crops and fields. This is the fifth future danger...

This, monks, is the fifth future danger, unarisen at present, that will arise in the future. Be alert to it and, being alert, work to get rid of it.

These, monks, are the five future dangers, unarisen at present, that will arise in the future. Be alert to them and, being alert, work to get rid of them.

— AN 5.80




Anumodana.

« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 07:03:50 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +340/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527

Aramika   *

Ein oder mehrer Beiträge wurden hier im Thema abgeschnitten und damit in neues Thema "[F&A] Lebensunterhalt der Mönche-Warum ziehen sie ihre Nahrung nicht selbst? " eröffnet, dem angehäng.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Johann

June 21, 2018, 01:52:05 AM
Sadhu!
 

Sophorn

June 20, 2018, 08:42:25 PM
Möge es ein verdienstvoller Uposatha für alle sein!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Marcel

June 19, 2018, 07:41:34 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
Bhante Johann, ich habe die Daten für mein sangham email nicht!! Ich bitte Sie mir diese, aus Mitgefühl, zukommen zu lassen. :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 07:09:43 AM
Hat Nyom Marcel, Khemakumara, noch PW für seine sangham email? Wenn nicht vergibt Atma neues und sendet es an die Adressen wie zuvor.
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 07:00:27 AM
_/\_ Okasa Bhante, if Bhante likes to give a teaching in regard of Vandami, out of compassion, his merits would be joyful received.
 

Indaññāno

June 19, 2018, 06:55:59 AM
សង្ឃ
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 06:40:35 AM
_/\_ Bhante Indannano _/\_
 

Marcel

June 19, 2018, 02:48:19 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
Bhante Johann, i will let you all khnow when the final going forth has been requested :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 02:39:20 AM
If Bhante has lost account and email settings, let it be known, that my person sends it to marcel@sangham.net
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 02:37:20 AM
Let all know when the final going forth has been simply requested, simply received, to be able to rejoice with it.
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 02:33:42 AM
Let all know when the final going forth has been simply requested, simply received, to be able to rejoice with it.
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 02:31:03 AM
Nyom Marcel
 

Johann

June 17, 2018, 07:18:53 PM
Bestes Gelingen und Freude dabei.
 

Moritz

June 17, 2018, 05:19:19 PM
Ich verabschiede mich für heut, muss andere Arbeit tun. Einen schönen Sonntag.
_/\_
 

Johann

June 17, 2018, 02:30:10 PM
Mudita
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 02:19:16 PM
 :-* :-* :-* die Übung ist besser als im "alten haus"  Zuversicht, geduld und Respekt über den drei juwelen ist da!!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 02:19:05 PM
 :-* :-* :-* die Übung ist besser als im "alten haus"  Zuversicht, geduld und Respekt über den drei juwelen ist da!!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 02:19:02 PM
 :-* :-* :-* die Übung ist besser als im "alten haus"  Zuversicht, geduld und Respekt über den drei juwelen ist da!!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

June 17, 2018, 01:53:53 PM
Wie immer recht, Nyom. Wie stets mit der Übung und allem neu und unperfekt?
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 01:42:40 PM
 :-*  :-* :-* anumodana :-* :-* :-*
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 01:40:03 PM
 :-* :-* :-*

Der ehrwürdige bhante besitzt noch den pc ! Bhante idananno ist für 2 Tage nach phnom phen. Wenn bhante wieder. Da ist, werde ich ihn  fragen und mich darum kümmern dass bhante  einen Zugang zum onlinekloster bekommt!  :-* :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

June 17, 2018, 01:26:26 PM
Hat Bhante noch den alten PC und das USB modem? Wenn Nyom, nach fragen, seine Sim da reintut, kann er damit sangham.net erreichen. Atma Tel. Nr. 012 345 025 wenn Nyom etwas benötigt.
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 01:23:38 PM
Entwürdiger bhante Johann, alles fein hier! Ich kann nun, über mein altes Handy, auf das online-Kloster zugreifen!
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 01:22:11 PM
Entwürdiger bhante Johann, alles fein hier! Ich kann nun, über mein altes Handy, auf das online-Kloster zugreifen!
 

Johann

June 17, 2018, 01:15:07 PM
Nyom? Marcel? Alles fein?
 

Johann

June 17, 2018, 01:14:25 PM
Atma kann nicht slowenisch, nur etwas Windisch/Kärntnerisch.

Soviele Raunzwörter... nie über Segensausdrücke gestolpert.

Sokh chomreoun, Nyom.
 

Moritz

June 17, 2018, 10:15:01 AM
Pozdravljeni, Guest!
 

Johann

June 16, 2018, 04:39:12 PM
Sadhu, may Nyom nourish on and rejoice with the merits done and gain pleasant and insightful dwellings of access.
 

Moritz

June 16, 2018, 04:32:09 PM
Chom reap lea.
May Bhante have a good day.
_/\_
 

Johann

June 16, 2018, 09:51:31 AM
Sokh chomreoun Nyom.

(May sukha (happiness) grow to its perfection, "previous father/relative")
 

Moritz

June 16, 2018, 09:38:06 AM
Vandami, Bhante.
Ich bin erst mal weg hier.
_/\_
 

Johann

June 12, 2018, 10:15:27 AM
Mag man sich, mag sich jeder, der Erinnerung an den Neumonduposatha, für geschicktes nutzen.

May everyone takes the New-moon Uposatha as a reminder for acting skilfully
 

Johann

June 06, 2018, 07:21:10 PM
Sadhu!
 

Sophorn

June 06, 2018, 03:02:27 AM
Einen verdienstvollen Uposatha heute  :-*
 

Johann

May 29, 2018, 06:44:12 PM
So der Tag mit Sonnenaufgang beginnt, ist selbt in Asien noch viel Gelegenheit dazu.
 

Sophorn

May 29, 2018, 05:53:50 PM
Möge heute ein verdienstvoller Tag gewesen sein!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 29, 2018, 11:57:01 AM
Sadhu!
 

Marcel

May 29, 2018, 11:37:19 AM
 :-* :-* :-*

mögen sie alle ein verdienstvollen uposatha haben!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 22, 2018, 10:11:37 AM
Sadhu!
 

Marcel

May 22, 2018, 09:37:30 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
einen verdienstvollen uposatha wünsche ich allen  :-* :-* :-*
 

Marcel

May 19, 2018, 03:07:57 PM
 :-* :-* :-*

ehrwürdiger bhante

 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 19, 2018, 03:05:38 PM
Nyom Marcel.
 

Johann

May 14, 2018, 01:24:42 PM
Sadhu!
 

Marcel

May 14, 2018, 01:23:37 PM
 :-* :-* :-*
allen ein verdienstvollen uposatha

 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 14, 2018, 08:34:09 AM
Schüsse von Wilderern am Tag sind ja nicht ungewöhnlich, doch aus mehreren Richtungen und automatischen Waffen doch bisher hier nicht üblich gewesen. Möge niemand anderen Schaden zufügen und sich mit Abstehen davon jeder beschützen.
 

Johann

May 14, 2018, 01:06:38 AM
It's not an accident that you came here and it will be not an accident whether one stays, comes back or leaves for another becoming or goes beyond.
 

Johann

May 13, 2018, 06:51:53 AM
Mag da keiner seine Mutter an dem Tag vergessen zu ehren.
 

Johann

May 11, 2018, 02:11:37 PM
Nyom Marcel.

Schlangentag und -nacht heute. Wem mag man was vergönnen? Der Schlange? Den Mäusen? Metta & Samvega oder umgekehrt? Mal angstlos Hunger, mal Angst, mal Maus, mal Schlange, essen, gegessen, verfolgen, gejagt...
 

Marcel

May 11, 2018, 11:57:36 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
ehrwürdiger bhante
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 10, 2018, 04:00:02 PM
Nyom Marcel.

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