https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/AN/AN2_35.htmlMay the Admin of
Dhammatalks be able to forward this:
Ven. Bhante Thanissaro, may Bhante listen to me:
Some days ago, my person translated DN1, and had to "force" himself, having not been pleased by the argumentation in regard of "better sticking in Jhana, as other backwards" in the Endnotes, but thought: "Well...". After receiving this Suttas, AN 2.35, strong warning, seeing that while translating, the thought accured, "could it be that it has been not seen?" while reading the Endnote of it. Actually the Sutta is exact about this matter, "interior" fettered to the first for Jhanas, "exterior" fettered to form & formless states, Jhanas.
In no way, in all samples missing right view and objective, the first two samples of the sutta by Ven. Sariputa, are dedicated to denote returner (e.g 1!+2 Noble One) or none-returner (3 Noble One), as described by him (missing, right view, right resolve). That is, because out of not understanding, the Bhikkhus grow overjoyed, and the Devas thought to inform this "strange" appearing, not leading to disenchantment (e.g. a certain teaching met a not ready audience for it). Seeing that it not the proper time to go into this matter (again and certain corrective, possible also in "respect of Ven. Sariputta as teacher for them), he simply urged the Bhikkhus to peacefully focus on service (merits) where they are and discouraged the Bhikkhus to desire after this kind of becoming, focusing just on the practice for now. As the last sentence: "Sāriputta, those members of other sects who don’t get to hear this Dhamma discourse are lost." shows, it's exactly about being caught to Jhanic states, where sects lead each other into.
Finding it on many levels somehow "ironical", as if Ven. Sariputa where another time "helped" in his effort, my person thought of giving another echo to it, so that it's sound might be possible absorbed. Maybe it would be good to either modify the certain notes in DN1 as well in AN 2.35, or to work similar as the Buddha around the issue: by leaving those not on track now, behind with simply practicing, and a note to Sariputta, that otherwise others, not focusing on right view at first hand, are simply lost in thurning their rounds in or between certain spears for a long, long time. Again, my person is not sure if such a strict declaration "better caught in certain higher states, then to experience low realms (eg. Dukkha)" is proper to express as a quote of the Buddha. Actually he often adviced in opposite direction and rebuked his disciples who did not lead lay people to the unbound, just because they where overjoyed. It's merely a case of "pleasant speech, but not beneficial for the path" combined with not the proper time to speak on the matter, that this occasion was rendered in this way and since there are not many (other) Sariputtas outside, it's possible good to render Notes likewise. May the Devas "feeling disturbed" while usuall able to stand not disturbed, be echoed as well here. May this be taken as peaceful service, not at least as a reward of service or at first hand.
It would be good to adress note 3 also in this matter "one who does not return to this state", and make a distinction between the secound and third sample of Ven. Sariputta, which is actually the main point of this sutta: that only if right view, right resolve, is gained, the none returning (at least) to Samsara is secure. "Not returning in the third sample means mainly, not to craving, greed, becoming..." This is the distinction of the two meanings of "none-returner", as far as seen. 1. "One can practice to dwell for a while in Devas realm" 2. "One can practice to 'be caught' in the Devas-realm." 3. "One can practice for no return toward unbinding." And it's because of the redundant danger of being overjoyed again, the attaining of fruits by Devas, on that occasion, was, is not remarked, as discussed under note 4.
It's also worthy to note that the third sample of Sariputta does not explicit mention certain "awareness-release" (e.g. Jhana-practice) to become a non-returner to suffering.
The meaning of "exteriorly fettered" for the third individual means fettered to the exteriorly: Unbinding, Nibbana.
Note 5 misses the point of ideals, as also addressed in the sutta, human state and within Dhamma-Vinaya, or being a "Deva" attending to such right here, not particular involved, adressed.
Not sure if "many devas
with their minds in tune [samacitta] went to the Blessed One" is proper here. Maybe "Devas of minds in tune", or "mind in tune - Devas", e.g. on the path and attentive of certain things.
"Those members of other sects who don’t get to hear this matter, unable to pay attention to it, are lost. Lost in blind self-overestimate of gains and feel approved in their usual ways: overjoyed."
Bhante
May it be of use and may it be an assistance in his sharing of his merits for the benefit of many.
May the Devas inform those not having been in touch with it.