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Author Topic: Meinungsverschiedenheit und Hierarchie [2]  (Read 601 times)

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Meinungsverschiedenheit und Hierarchie [2]
« on: April 09, 2018, 08:50:13 PM »

Johann   *

Weiterbearbeitung des Themas: Meinungsverschiedenheit und Hierarchie , aus April 2014.

Aramika   *

Dieses neue Thema (bzw. diese/r Beitrag/e) wurde  aus abgetrennten Beiträgen, ursprünglich in Sterilization - Castration, a matter of compassion or just unskilfull? , hinzugefügt. Für ev. ergänzende Informationen zur sehen Sie bitte das Ursprugsthema ein. Anumodana!
[Original post:]


It's really strange that you take issue with compulsory sterilization (either of humans or of animals).
You have always been a staunch proponent of the idea that people have no rights.
So why do you take issue with examples of when people (or animals) are treated as if they have no rights?

That's not the point, Nyom Binocular.
It is precisely the point.

Quote
My person wonders why Nyom stays that much on the surface here, does not let the matter penetrate to a more clearer stage.
Because I have no rights. See?


B.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 02:36:01 AM by Johann »

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Re: Meinungsverschiedenheit und Hierarchie
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2018, 09:07:46 PM »
Does that mean that it is thought that certain "Reichsärzte-Philosophie" found ground here? Or how should that be understood, this "I deprive you forced from your possibilities of ancestors, because they will probably estimated as worthless and killed (better they gain birth as a chicken...  *provocative*). Does not any being die? This approch if followed would be an argument for annihilationist to best destruct the whole possibilities for taking birth... so what's that, (to this amount, hopefully "just") eel-wriggling approach about?
This is what the State and Religion do to people anyway.

Everytime I see a truck that transports live animals to the slaughterhouse, I think of how the State and Religion do the same thing to people's spirit, and sometimes, to their bodies. The State and Religion want us to be obedient, docile, and not resist when they want to kill us.

Offline Johann

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Re: Meinungsverschiedenheit und Hierarchie
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2018, 02:19:58 AM »
Oh yes... the bad "mighty"... is that all what can be effort by advices toward a better?

Then go on, do the villagers way of discussing about philosophy their situations and how all would be better without being guided. Don't worry, actually both, wordily and beyond advices have nearly extinct in this world and defilements run their causes. By their majority you already have all the ways previous desired.

The old Krabat traumatic ... the liberation of defilement.

Go on as usual. Nobody, and at least Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha would force you to anything. Just think in how far it is of use to feed on what is rejected. Like a child should think twice before talking about their parents.

It's just here in this case most ironically if looking at the masters ways, demands and forces in regard of his pets-folk.

A weel caught in hard to see, the matter "like the master, so his slaves".

Like years before, Nyom Binoclar did not step a little out of her victim-blaming.

Seeking nicca (control able) in what is anicca (not controlable) beings search for power and blame other that their thought contructs don't last. "Who ever does fulfill my desires, I will voye for, give into! Who ever does not blame me, shows 'metta' toward me, I devote!"

That's why masters love (are bound to) pets, pets their master... they provide each other with their desired they need to enjoy feeding on.Hard to give up ones desires, hard to gain thereby release, since a master teaching the abounding of desires would require to actually desire for release.

And then they sing their community gospels: Heartlessness (and a waving flag) - Herzlosigkeit (und die flatternde Fahne)

It really feels better, bring fruits, rather to live a consumer, demander live, to change to be a giver, a rich, one with no demand for his/her shares, toward those worthy to be given.

If fearing to lost house, home and entertainment, how could liberating ever be met, even in front?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 02:56:50 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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Re: Meinungsverschiedenheit und Hierarchie [2]
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2018, 09:34:34 PM »
Oh yes... the bad "mighty"... is that all what can be effort by advices toward a better?

Then go on, do the villagers way of discussing about philosophy their situations and how all would be better without being guided. Don't worry, actually both, wordily and beyond advices have nearly extinct in this world and defilements run their causes. By their majority you already have all the ways previous desired.

The old Krabat traumatic ... the liberation of defilement.

Go on as usual. Nobody, and at least Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha would force you to anything. Just think in how far it is of use to feed on what is rejected. Like a child should think twice before talking about their parents.
Cynicism is the lowest form of wit.

It's not about not wanting to be guided.
It's about not wanting to be guided by people who despise those they guide.
Can you tell the difference?

It's about not wanting to settle for a religious life of quiet desperation.
It's about not wanting to settle for a religious life of quiet desperation.
It's about not wanting to settle for a religious life of pretenses and going through the motions. 



Quote
Hard to give up ones desires, hard to gain thereby release, since a master teaching the abounding of desires would require to actually desire for release.

It would really help if you'd work on your English, because the way you sometimes confuse words results in saying the opposite of what you probably intended.

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Re: Meinungsverschiedenheit und Hierarchie [2]
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2018, 06:06:58 AM »
Oh yes... the bad "mighty"... is that all what can be effort by advices toward a better?

Then go on, do the villagers way of discussing about philosophy their situations and how all would be better without being guided. Don't worry, actually both, wordily and beyond advices have nearly extinct in this world and defilements run their causes. By their majority you already have all the ways previous desired.

The old Krabat traumatic ... the liberation of defilement.

Go on as usual. Nobody, and at least Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha would force you to anything. Just think in how far it is of use to feed on what is rejected. Like a child should think twice before talking about their parents.
Cynicism is the lowest form of wit.
Not always, Nyom Binucolar, since a defiled mind would only act further, or release grasped, if it is provocated by what might seem to be out of greed, aversion or ignorance. Yet of course certain kind of belittling for the sake of belittling would be more then poor.
It's not about not wanting to be guided.
It's because people desire to be guided, don't let go of this kind of giver (guṇa , goodness) , that makes it impossible to gain liberating guidance. It's a matter of debt and to whom/what. And the lack of effort of keeping certain promises and to feear of disadvantage breaking up with other certain promises . Guided by Mara (the "guṇa") beings are bond. (It also might make the meaning of the "confusing part" at the end more clear.

It's about not wanting to be guided by people who despise those they guide.
Well, not having a little estimation for ones own defilements is necessary. If one finds them worthy to hold on, regards them as ones own, than there is less way. The resant talk [En] Hold on for All you're worth, Bhante Thanissaro might be useful here. If one would belittle ones good deeds, tendency, and potential, that is of course an enemy. But since it is not easy to take real goodness and enemy in disguise of goodness right, as long as not reached certain level of right goodness by one self, it's difficult and often a guess or ones upanissaya of what is met. Again, also here, giving at first place, makes things quick much more clear. Giving into the right, one derives there. Nothing to fear.

It's possible worthy to make clear, that those actually able to guide toward liberation, do not have and desire to guide or for such as students. They might do it out of compassion in a either formal or informal relation, if wished. Or out of certain duty or graditude toward people/deeds of real goodness, if possible.

Can you tell the difference?
Can, could Nyom take it?

It's about not wanting to settle for a religious life of quiet desperation.
It's about not wanting to settle for a religious life of quiet desperation.
How could religion, as long the "re" is not simple recidivism of the same old story of "and the it goes back..." a desperation. Of course it's required that one old and hold religion (re-bondgage), which always leads to desperation, has to be given up first. It's, how ever, to re-ligion with ones old merits (results of past good deeds, ones old friend) if coming across and build on it, nurish such inwardly and outwardly for increading upanissaya (strong condition, relation). At least the re-ligion for liberation is not for the sake of re-ligion, but for liberation of at least also from this bond.

It's about not wanting to settle for a religious life of pretenses and going through the motions. 
The/a pretenses is required, in the meaning of Vision, not real yet, and it's not possible to get a diploma is thinking "I just enter the school if I know all", eg. "being" before doing. Of course it whould be not good the pretenses something, but actually has other objectives, use it as means of livelihood, either cheating one self, others, or both. But again, the way (all ways) can not be walked without debts, e.g. certain imitation or what is called "rites and rituals" before they become naturally.

Quote
Hard to give up ones desires, hard to gain thereby release, since a master teaching the abounding of desires would require to actually desire for release.

It would really help if you'd work on your English, because the way you sometimes confuse words results in saying the opposite of what you probably intended.
My person guesses it has been explained, and not sure if it was primarily a language issue (the text may incl. still things which have been explained by Nyoms gift. My person didn't not "consume" it yet.)

In the spirit of this words, my person suggest Nyom to challenge Vaṇṇa macchariya , makes proper use by sharing the given by so many, let good selfestimate not be only a required joy but also ones governig principle and give others chance for proper same and identification by sharing her merits and brightness that comes from it. It's good if given Name and face is shared, in all aspects, and leave an old "religious life of pretenses and going through the motions" and foolish denying. Nyom @Morits , knowing its benefit good himself, might be also your good technical assistant in this regard. (A new "visitor 2" account is easy made, for one or another, wishing to make use, possible follow a left behind path like wise. That's the gift one walks forward, leaves behind, a track, gone by some with similar circumstances toward a vision, realized. E.g. ceratin faith that it is possible by human effort.)

Mudita
« Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 06:17:48 AM by Johann »
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Re: Meinungsverschiedenheit und Hierarchie [2]
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2018, 09:23:57 PM »
I'll tell you something about my past, to explain how I've arrived at the point I'm at currently. I was born and raised in a traditionally Catholic country. Due to legitimacy issues, I was not eligible for infant baptism, and so I grew up as the only non-Catholic among Catholics. I was considered a heathen, mocked, verbally, and also physically abused for not being a Catholic. But, as an outsider on the inside, I also got to see Catholicism from a different perspective. Apparently, they didn't really believe what they so staunchly professed to believe. Nobody actually seemed to take Catholic doctrine seriously. Few knew it, or held folk variations of it (such like that not being baptized as an infant, one is sure to go to hell forever). But when it came to me, it somehow mattered that I was not Catholic. For all the humility exercised and the humiliation endured in church, it seems they tried really hard to make up for it at home. Getting drunk, swearing, beating eachother and the animals. Cursing God, the Church, the pope, St. Mary. They all seemed very unhappy.

I'm not complaining or criticising them, I'm too pessimistic for that. I actually concluded that this religious pretense and duplicity, and being miserable is simply as good as life gets anyway, and that one should not hope for anything more. That life is drudgery.

When I came to Buddhism, I have seen so much of it again, just the names and some external details were different. And for a long time, I saw this as evidence that nothing better is possible anyway, and that I should see to it to internalize this, stop resisting, and become this way myself. Right now, I'm not sure what to think.


I apologize for staying distant, not getting a proper account, giving a name and picture. At this point, it doesn't seem right to go in that direction.


Thank you, you've been kind.


B.

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Re: Meinungsverschiedenheit und Hierarchie [2]
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2018, 01:34:01 AM »
Nothing to apologize Nyom Binocolar. It was/is just a suggestion for a possibility to chance, to a not so much just a life (existence, state in a certain world one take birth, a would one creates) of pretenses.

The replay how ever, may it be correted if wrong, is another "yes/no, but I, me, mine", claiming of rights and toward victim blaming. It's normal.

Maybe again as reminder generally if gain of friends or living bond in a ceratin society is wished. Giving veneration (to that what is worthy, or one likes to go for) is the readon for honor. Giving material things (this incl. such as knowledge and certain skills) is the reason to win friends.

Or better complete, all 4 Sangha vatthus, in it's highest again, as means for liberation.

Also, maybe again: Sozialisieren, mit wem und warum | Socialize with who, why | ធ្វើសង្គមមូបនីយកម្ម

Sozialisieren - សង្គម [Sangama]

to find that what might seek for.

Gain can not be obtained/accumulated by just seeking of what merits and where, are left, but always by giving/sacrifice.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 03:11:37 AM by Johann »
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Re: Meinungsverschiedenheit und Hierarchie [2]
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2018, 07:17:20 PM »
Bhante, thank you for your reply.


I wrote a reply, but decided it would not be appropriate to post it.

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Re: Meinungsverschiedenheit und Hierarchie [2]
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2018, 08:29:24 PM »
Bhante, thank you for your reply.


I wrote a reply, but decided it would not be appropriate to post it.


Edit:
Why do you say victim blaming ?
Or did you mean victim mentality ?

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Re: Meinungsverschiedenheit und Hierarchie [2]
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2018, 12:47:32 AM »
Attention, empathy and care by Nyom Binuclar is amazing.

May "she" be touched
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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Plauderbox

 

Sophorn

July 14, 2018, 11:10:02 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
Karuna tvay bongkum Bhante
 :-*  :-* :-*
 

Sophorn

July 14, 2018, 11:09:03 AM
 :)  ;) Moritz, gut einfühlbar. In Österreich lebte der Körper nach der asiatischen Uhr, hier in N nach der österreichischen Uhr.
Nicht zeitgerecht der Natur entsprechend zu leben, überfordert den Körper.  
Beste Grüße aus Kathmandu!  :-*
 

Johann

July 14, 2018, 11:06:18 AM
Sadhu, und vergesse Nyom sich nicht.
 

Moritz

July 14, 2018, 11:00:04 AM
Es wird spät in Hawaii. Einen friedlichen Tag allen. _/\_
 

Moritz

July 14, 2018, 07:40:41 AM
Ja, gestern Vormittag bis Nachmittag. Ich lebe wohl gerade ungefähr im Einklang mit der Zeitzone von Hawaii.
 

Johann

July 14, 2018, 07:36:45 AM
Nyom Moritz. Hat er auch ausreichend Schlaf genommen?
 

Moritz

July 14, 2018, 07:30:08 AM
Good day, Bhante _/\_
 

Moritz

July 13, 2018, 05:58:06 PM
Vandami, Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

July 13, 2018, 03:20:13 PM
Nyom Roman
 

Moritz

July 13, 2018, 03:07:40 AM
Ach ja, hab nun geändert. Vielleicht klappt's nun beim nächsten probieren @Roman
_/\_
 

Johann

July 13, 2018, 02:21:56 AM
Vielleicht gut wenn Meister Moritz Nyom Roman die 5 Mühsam-Beitagszahl hineinzaubert, da dann spamschutz wegfällt und er zu den unöffentlichen Foren Zugang hat.
 

Moritz

July 12, 2018, 09:13:06 PM
Hier eine kurze Bild-Erklärung zum Beantworten von Themen und Beiträgen.
Wenn noch Probleme, gern weiter hier nachfragen. _/\_
 

Moritz

July 12, 2018, 09:11:14 PM
Gut zu hören, dass der Bruder sich mitfreut. Sadhu! :)
Möge alles problemlos im Eintritt in das neue Leben für ihn laufen. _/\_

Roman

July 12, 2018, 09:01:41 PM
Danke moritz

Ich werde es ausprobieren!!

Aufjedenfall war es eine sehr erfreuliche Nachricht! ! Ich bin sehr stolz auf marcel!! Mein herz geht auf!! Wunderschön!
 

Moritz

July 12, 2018, 08:58:37 PM
(Also auch auf der neuen Seite, wo dann das Text-Eingabefeld ist: Das Text-Eingabefeld ist nicht gleich im Fokus, sondern man muss erst ein gutes Stück nach unten scrollen, um es zu finden.)
Nicht sicher gerade, wie es auf Smartphone aussieht, ob da viel anders ist.
 

Moritz

July 12, 2018, 08:56:57 PM
Wenn man ganz unten ans Ende der letzten Nachricht scrollt, sollte da ein Button "Reply" oder "Antworten" sein. (Je nach eingestellter Sprache vielleicht.) Da drauf klicken. Dann sollte auf der nächsten Seite eine Texteingabe-Ansicht erscheinen. Zu der muss man aber erst ein Stück runter scrollen.
 

Moritz

July 12, 2018, 08:53:20 PM
Oh, die Nachricht wurde abgeschnitten. Hier in der Shoutbox sind nur ein paar hundert Zeichen möglich.
Ja, das Forum ist etwas unübersichtlich am Anfang. Moment, ich versuche mal, zu erklären. :)

Roman

July 12, 2018, 08:41:24 PM
Hallo

Ich lese sehr viel hier!! Es ist sehr interessant!! Die Menge an Infos! ! Sehr toll!!..Ich habe versucht auf den Beitrag zu reagieren der die Entwicklung von nyom marcel beschreibt..glaube von Johann verfasst. Jedoch weiß ich noch nicht genau wie dieses funktioniert.
Ich habe die Nachric
 

Moritz

July 12, 2018, 08:34:57 PM
Hallo Roman, Binocular/Visitor _/\_
 

Johann

July 12, 2018, 02:08:25 PM
Nyom Roman
 

Johann

July 11, 2018, 10:08:30 PM
Ohh... es ist woeder mal 3 geworden. Atma erlaubt sich, sich zurückzuziehen und sich etwas um die Malaria zu kümmern.
 

Johann

July 11, 2018, 07:20:56 PM
Sadhu zu Ersten Ausruf/ Aufruf. Sadhu zum zweiten, zu Vorbildhaftigkeit, und mag er sich stets entlassen fühlen
 

Moritz

July 11, 2018, 07:00:07 PM
Chom reap leah, Bhante _/\_
Nun wirklich weg hier für heute, Arbeit ruft.
 

Moritz

July 11, 2018, 05:43:01 PM
Allen gute Besinnung auf was besinnenswert ([1] | [2] ) ist wünschend _/\_
 

Sophorn

July 08, 2018, 09:33:25 AM
Karuna tvay bongkum Bhante :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

July 08, 2018, 09:28:47 AM
Nyom Sophorn
 

Danilo

July 08, 2018, 12:20:06 AM
Bhante and Moritz _/\_
 

Johann

July 08, 2018, 12:16:49 AM
Moritz, Danilo
 

Moritz

July 08, 2018, 12:09:40 AM
Good evening, morning or whatever the time here and there. _/\_
 

Johann

July 02, 2018, 04:20:58 PM
Meister Moritz
 

Moritz

July 02, 2018, 02:57:42 PM
Vandami, Bhante _/\_
 

Marcel

July 02, 2018, 02:36:37 PM
  :-* Hallo Moritz
 

Moritz

July 02, 2018, 02:33:25 PM
Hallo, Marcel, Sophorn. _/\_
 

Johann

July 02, 2018, 05:18:33 AM
Nyom Sophorn, Nachricht von Bhante Indannano: http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,1554.msg15198.html#msg15198
 

Marcel

July 02, 2018, 03:51:28 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
Bhante
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

July 02, 2018, 02:22:38 AM
Nyom Marcel
 

Johann

July 02, 2018, 02:08:22 AM
Geruhsame Nacht, Nyom
 

Moritz

July 02, 2018, 01:48:32 AM
Gute Nacht. _/\_
 

Moritz

July 02, 2018, 01:47:01 AM
Hallo Mirco! :)
 

Moritz

July 02, 2018, 01:46:48 AM
Sadhu. Möge Bhante lange gesund bleiben. _/\_
 

Johann

July 01, 2018, 06:45:22 PM
Sadhu

Angenehmen, klärenden Tag. Auch allen anderen.

Atmas Gesundheit, trotz der durch stetes Regnen zahlreicher Mitesser, ist soweit ok und wer weis wie morgen. Bisher schon länger malariaanfallverschont.

 

Moritz

July 01, 2018, 04:45:36 PM
(Bin erst mal kurz weg vom Computer.
Chom reap leah. _/\_)
 

Moritz

July 01, 2018, 04:41:41 PM
Guten Abend, Bhante. _/\_

Wie steht es um Ihre Gesundheit und Malaria?

_/\_
 

Moritz

July 01, 2018, 03:48:17 AM
Hallo Sophorn!
Gruß auch zurück nach Österreich :) _/\_
 

Sophorn

July 01, 2018, 03:40:58 AM
Freut mich, dass es gut geht.

Beste Grüsse nach Asien und Resteuropa!  :-*
 

Marcel

June 30, 2018, 12:23:03 AM
Werte sophorn,
Mir geht es gut!  :-*
 

Sophorn

June 29, 2018, 08:23:49 PM
Werter Marcel,
Wie geht's?
 :-*
 

Marcel

June 28, 2018, 08:10:49 AM
  :'(- irrtümlich gesendet!!
 

Marcel

June 28, 2018, 08:08:00 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
Sadhu,Sadhu,Sadhu
 :-* :-* :-* :'(
 

Marcel

June 28, 2018, 08:07:58 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
Sadhu,Sadhu,Sadhu
 :-* :-* :-*

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