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Author Topic: Association with the Devas - associated Rebirth  (Read 1131 times)

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Online Johann

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Association with the Devas - associated Rebirth
« on: April 16, 2018, 02:11:04 AM »
What about association with the Devas? Did Guest ever came in touch or even have connections?

What does Guest think? Is it of benefit for one? How far is it such or endless?
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Danilo

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Re: Association with the Devas - associated Rebirth
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2018, 07:53:38 PM »
As far as I know, in the pali canon, to have contact with devas would require supernatural powers. People who claims to have supernatural power is quite rare, and people who claims to have supernatural powers and is not lying is even more rare. Thus, I doubt if there is somebody here who would be able to address the questions made by bhante on account of his/her own personal experience.

Online Johann

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Re: Association with the Devas - associated Rebirth
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2018, 01:19:35 AM »
The question is: "Would it be good to associate with Devas? Would it be good to give into it?", Nyom Danilo ?

People used to associate with the Devas since uncountable times, much much longer than common with pets.

The contact with the Devas of the Kamaloka is reached by generosity, virtue and wisdom, all of which are not really supernatural, of course not common. Higher realm require Jhana and even that is not that supernatural. Surely it's easier to be in relation of equal and lower, but what about the difference of being honored and protected by Devas or dogs, Gods or clansmen?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 01:47:05 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Sophorn

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Re: Association with the Devas - associated Rebirth
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2018, 08:36:46 AM »
 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Karuna tvay bongkum Bhante,
Valued Danilo,
to encounter Devas one doesn't need to develop supernatural powers.
But I agree that you have to be calm and collected to be able to sense Devas.
They live in realms that are calmer than our normal living spaces. Plants are a good place for Devas to dwell. That's why traditionally incense sticks, flowers or perfume are offered at pujas or holy places to call Devas.
Making yourself clean and clear in body, mind and emotions would be a natural way to draw devas close.

For what purpose? To join merits.
 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Offline Danilo

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Re: Association with the Devas - associated Rebirth
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2018, 03:35:42 AM »
Bhante Johann and Sophorn,
If it's not a matter of supernatural abilities, then why is not possible to come in contact with a deva, right now, through natural means?
   

The question is: "Would it be good to associate with Devas? Would it be good to give into it?", Nyom Danilo ?

I don't know anything about devas (apart of their deptiction as beings whose lead their lives with ease in higher realms). But if nibbana is one's goal, then the highest benefit would be association with those who are committed with the same goal.

Online Johann

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Re: Association with the Devas - associated Rebirth
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2018, 04:40:00 AM »
Atma trust that Nyom Danilo 's health is well and he does not lack of anything important this days.

Bhante Johann and Sophorn,
If it's not a matter of supernatural abilities, then why is not possible to come in contact with a deva, right now, through natural means?

As told before, Nyom, generosity, Sila and as Nyom Sophorn told, certain level of concentration and attention is required. Just give it a serious practice, without thinking to much on certain perception of the aim, is important and if the focus is perfect on the training it self, it's just natural.

Sometimes (for many never, for some all the time) one might have the merits and past near relation, like for example the first two followers of the Buddha, to meet the Devas even on more raw level of awareness:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

(Mv.I.4.2) Now on that occasion the merchants Tapussa and Bhallika were traveling on the road from Ukkalā to that district. Then a devatā who had been a blood-relative of Tapussa and Bhallika said to the merchants, “There is the Blessed One, my dears, staying at the root of the Rājāyatana tree, newly fully awakened. Go and serve the Blessed One cooked grain-meal and honey balls. That will be for your long-term welfare & happiness.”

(Mv.I.4.3) Then the merchants Tapussa and Bhallika, taking cooked grain-meal and honey balls, went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, stood to one side. As they were standing there, the merchants Tapussa and Bhallika said to the Blessed One, “Lord, May the Blessed One accept our cooked grain-meal and honey balls, for that will be for our long-term welfare & happiness.”

(Mv.I.4.4) Then the thought occurred to the Blessed One, “Tathāgatas do not accept things with their hands. How shall I accept the cooked grain-meal and honey balls?” Then the Four Great Kings, having known with their awareness the train of thought in the Blessed One’s awareness, presented four stone bowls from the four directions to the Blessed One, (thinking) “May the Blessed One accept the cooked grain-meal and honey balls here [in the bowls].” The Blessed One accepted the exquisite stone bowls and the cooked grain-meal and honey balls. Having accepted them, he consumed them.

(Mv.I.4.5) Then the merchants Tapussa and Bhallika [knowing that the Blessed One had finished his meal and withdrawn his hand from the bowl, fell down with their heads at the Blessed One’s feet and][2] said to the Blessed One, “We go to the Blessed One for refuge, & to the Dhamma. May the Blessed One remember us as lay followers who have gone for refuge from this day forward, for life.”

And they were the first two-statement[3] lay followers in the world.

Another food for thoughts: observe certain animals like ants or bugs and look if they might be aware of the human realm and humans. Or a group of childs: look if they would be aware of a special person or special things for you,when it is right next to them.

Or, if wishing to meet a rock-star, eventually become one, what is the reason to meet?
   
The question is: "Would it be good to associate with Devas? Would it be good to give into it?", Nyom Danilo ?

I don't know anything about devas (apart of their deptiction as beings whose lead their lives with ease in higher realms). But if nibbana is one's goal, then the highest benefit would be association with those who are committed with the same goal.

Does Nyom Danilo think that there was even a single individual, who reached liberation, in the past, is in the present and will be, who did not, does not, will not associate much and formost with the devas and gods?

Even those who gain auspicious aims within the human realm have done, do, and will do such in good association with the Devas.

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

In whatever place
a wise person makes his dwelling,
    — there providing food
for the virtuous,
   the restrained,
   leaders of the holy life —
he should dedicate that offering
to the devas there.
They, receiving honor, will honor him;
being respected, will show him respect.
As a result, they will feel sympathy for him,
   like that of a mother for her child, her son.
A person with whom the devas sympathize
   always meets with auspicious things.

"Those committed to Nibbana": aside of those gaining highest fruit in a human existence, all (aside of some previous Stream-enterer) individuals headed to Nibbana dwell in the Deva-Realms, have a Deva existence attained right now and all of the times. It's on the other side possible that the human realm is void of Noble ones.

And just as information: if Nyom Danilo did not, do not actually strong relations and support of Devas, he would never ever have appeared in this particular Brahma-host of paranimmita-vasavatti deva and nimmanarati deva here. Such would be near to impossible, not to speak of not suddenly fall away from this realm.

Honor and devotion toward Devas, dedication of ones sacrifices (saddha) means to give toward those in front, having come first, who are more exalted in real treasures .

Bhante Paññobhāsa gave once generously a nice description of the diffent realms of existence and their beings kind, if wishing to explore a little.

And it's importand that strong faith or knowing, association with the different kinds of Devas is a fundamental aspect of right view.

Mudita
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 06:52:56 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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Plauderbox

gus

Today at 12:02:06 AM
Saddhaya tarati ogham !

As you said "A person without trust, Saddhaa , say the wise, is like someone without hands and feet."
 

Johann

September 25, 2018, 06:29:46 PM
My person leaves for today. Much joy in deeper exploring this place, Atma thinks Nyom Gus will certainly do.
 

Johann

September 14, 2018, 07:11:41 AM
Und was ist die Grundlage für das Aukommen (paccaya) von Saddhā? Dukkha ist die Grundlage für das Aufkommen von Vertrauen (Händen und Füßen). Viel Dukkha! um Khema zu werden.
 

Johann

September 14, 2018, 07:02:53 AM
Eine Person ohne Vertrauen, Saddhaa, so sagen die Weisen, ist wie jemand ohne Hände und ohne Füße.

Also besser heute "unperfekt" beginnen, Anstelle perfekt wiedermal weiter nirgendwo Zuflucht zu erlangen. "Da ist nichts Gutes, es sei den man tut es."
 

Johann

September 11, 2018, 02:42:47 PM
Nyom Roman.
 

Johann

September 10, 2018, 03:39:32 PM
Ein Besucher. Wie geht es den Katzen?
 

Johann

September 08, 2018, 01:28:03 AM
Meister Hanspeter
 

Johann

September 05, 2018, 08:34:31 AM
At Buddhas times, so in times of Ajahn Mun, Upāli was the great supporter of the Kassapa, now the "Upalis" just make their livelihoods with it. Sad but true: or "nor for sure?"
 

Johann

September 05, 2018, 08:31:06 AM
It's like with Metallica- Fans and their producer, or to put it into Buddhas words: Uposatha of the cowboys.
 

Johann

September 05, 2018, 08:27:52 AM
Today many trade an nurish on the reputation of forest or kammaṭṭhāna - monks, making their livelihood with it by giving books, while wasting away their own goodness and possibilities actually destruct their upanissaya to it.
 

Johann

September 01, 2018, 07:16:53 PM
mit gahaṭṭha den Tag abschließend und segenreichen (verdienstvollen puñña) Sonntag allen anregend.
 

Johann

September 01, 2018, 09:43:50 AM
Was immer Mönch/Lehrer im Westen/moderenen Welt weilt, ist entweder Außenseiter oder (möglich ist) Arahant. Denken Sie nach.
 

Johann

September 01, 2018, 09:41:14 AM
Suchen Sie die Theras in traditionellem Land. Die Mitglieder anderer Sekten/"Buddhisten/moderne, arroganz/dünkel gefangen, sind verloren!
 

Johann

September 01, 2018, 09:38:20 AM
Das ist so klärend... ohne, wie die Westlichen Lehrer, jemals in alte Kultur und Sprache eingetaucht zu sein, vermag man nicht mal Pali richtig übersetzen, scjreiben, dann erst Buddhavaca verstehen.
 

Johann

August 30, 2018, 03:39:04 PM
Be prepared to die! Pets -life in a rich country is nice, but you would not understand anything: paṭisandhi (Com., Mahavihara)
 

Johann

August 30, 2018, 01:38:39 PM
 

Johann

August 26, 2018, 10:06:36 PM
Verdienstreichen Vollmond-Uposatha Ausklang allen.
 

Johann

August 22, 2018, 06:04:12 AM
"No mercy" :) soweit Trübungen nicht hindern, Nyom Moritz und Mudita.
 

Moritz

August 22, 2018, 05:07:08 AM
Ich verabschiede mich. Viele Dinge zu ordnen. _/\_
 

Moritz

August 22, 2018, 04:50:41 AM
 _/\_
Gut zu hören, auch wenn sicher relativ.
Mögen Bhante genug Schonung finden. _/\_
 

Johann

August 22, 2018, 04:37:12 AM
Gegenüber dem "Sterben" gestern, "pumperlg'sund" auf Wienerisch. Sadhu der Nachfrage, Nyom Moritz.
 

Moritz

August 22, 2018, 04:10:10 AM
Vandami, Bhante _/\_
Wie geht es Ihnen körperlich?
 

Johann

August 17, 2018, 02:21:49 AM
Mein's oder nicht meines, (Gier) Liebe oder Hass... Da sind wenige, die Blumen im Wald stehen lassen und Insekten nicht töten, weder bleiben noch gehen, und alles geben aus Wohlwollen und Mitgefühl, Weisheit gewonnen, Geiz besiegt und Güte ohne zu vereinnahmen. Wie konnten andere diese je sehen,
 

Johann

August 13, 2018, 05:13:25 AM
Händler mögen es nicht sich für passendes Mudita hinzugeben, und würden nur in Lob über deren Handelsware sprechen. Warum Leute Lobenswertes nicht loben: apacayana eine er 12 Personen: "...ein Geschäftsmann, sich seiner Schuld zum Arbeiten für seinen Vorteil verschrieben."
 

Johann

August 11, 2018, 12:06:41 AM
Erfreuenden und klärenden Neumond-Uposatha, den Ehrw. Herren, Anhängern und Interessierten.
 

Johann

August 10, 2018, 08:31:57 PM
Sokh chomreoun Nyom. Möge sich Sukha zur Vollständigkeit mehren.
 

Moritz

August 10, 2018, 06:20:44 PM
Ich muss wieder an die Arbeit. Einen angenehmen Abend, Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

August 10, 2018, 05:25:27 PM
Nyom Moritz.

Nyom Mohan.
 

Moritz

August 10, 2018, 05:18:04 PM
Guten Abend, Bhante _/\_
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

August 05, 2018, 12:58:01 PM
Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann,

ich habe der Gruppe „ Anussavika“ beigetreten.

Dhamma Grüβe an Sie aus Sri Lanka!
 

Johann

July 31, 2018, 04:38:15 PM
Den Weg kennend, im Vertrauen jenen folgen ihn gehend, gegangen, sich dann ausschließlich um die Enihsltung des Weges kümmer, gelangt man nach oben und hinaus. So, in dieser Weise, ist "der Weh ist das Ziel zu verstehen.
 

Johann

July 31, 2018, 04:33:35 PM
Mögen alles stets vorrangig auf die Qualitäten von Handlungen und Hingaben, die Ursachen für Früchte achten und nicht wie dumme gewöhnliche Leute, Zeile fixieren und danach gfreifen, die Ursachen damit fehlen, nie zu Früchten kommend, falscher Mitteln für Wirkung bedient.

Mudita
 

Johann

July 28, 2018, 07:38:00 AM
on how the blessed hobby, the liberating anime, the sublime gotchi decays for one and at a certain point for all: Dhamma-Gotchi and only fake last for some times lasting till also the mythos decays.
 

Johann

July 26, 2018, 01:50:45 PM
Morgen, Vollmond vor dem Vassa seiend, mag jener, der nicht zu sehr verstrickt in Fehlinvestitionen, die Gelegenheit für Lösung von Verstrickungen zu nützen vermögen.
 

Johann

July 26, 2018, 01:50:20 PM
Morgen, Vollmond vor dem Vassa seiend, mag jener, der nicht zu sehr verstrickt in Fehlinvestitionen, die Gelegenheit für Lösung von Verstrickungen zu nützen vermögen.
 

Roman

July 22, 2018, 08:01:16 PM
Danke für die Infos
und eine friedliche Nacht
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 06:27:44 PM
Atma, zieht sich nun zurück, wieder spät geworden, Nyom. Ruhe Freude und Geduld beim ungestörten Erkunden und Gelegenheiten, Gegeben-heiten, nutzen.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:13:38 PM
Atma wird das Gespräch nun versuchen in Passendes Thema im Forum zu kopieren.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:12:06 PM
In Sorge Unmut ob der Situation, gänzlich anders Vorgestellt,  zu mehren, hatte Johann nicht nach Marcel gefragt. Doch hätte er, würde er er erwähnen, wenn da dringliches und triftige Sorge um Marcel wäre. Gute Übung und Lehre, alles in allem, für viele, wenn danach ausgerichtet. Also einfach
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:06:12 PM
Bhante Indannano, Johann angerufen habend, kurz, vor Tagen, unterrichtet geworden das Johann am Weg in die Hauptstadt sein, hatte sich sehr zurückhaltend und kurz gehalten. Wohl nicht mit den weltlichen Hindernissen all zu Erfreut und noch ungelößt.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:03:21 PM
Im Verwenden des Forums, überall, keine Sorge irgendwo was Falsch zu machen, ist es Stressfreier und Langlebiger, auch für andere, als Geschenk, Nyom Roman. Woimmer.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:00:55 PM
Nyom kam Nyom als "füherer Elternteil/Verwandter" betrachten. Hie etwas Technischer: ញោម "Nyom", ñoma - Ursprung bzw. Bedeutung
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:56:10 PM
Wenn Sie sich freimachen können, besuchen Sie ihn, und machen Sie Entdeckungsreise in unbekannter Welt, während ihm vielleich Weltliches abnehmen könnend.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:53:55 PM
mit Freude tun oder Geben mag, wo immer, ist vorallem für Roman glücksverheißend, neben Moraluscher Stange zum Glück für ihn haltend.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:51:42 PM
Mag er sicher Abstand von Unsicherm Gewinnen. Was immer Roman sich inspiriet fühlt, geschicktes, niemanden Verletzendes zu geben, zu tun, gar vielleicht mehr an jemand erhabener als "nur" eigener Bruder denkend,
 

Roman

July 22, 2018, 02:49:04 PM
  Und was bedeutet Nyom...Ich habe versucht zu übersetzen.  Jedoch weiß ich nicht ob der Bezug richtig ist
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:48:39 PM
Johann hat ihn schon länger nicht persönlich getroffen, ob in Buchstaben, am Ohr oder mit mehr Sinnen. Gestern war er wohl online hier. Denke er ist sehr vertieft in der Praxis und hat eigentlich wenig Interesse sich um Äußerses zu kümmern.
 

Roman

July 22, 2018, 02:46:46 PM
Beim lesen von den Beiträgen fällt es mir noch bißchen schwer alles zu verstehen...Ich frage mich gerade wer Atma ist..Und moritz bist du für die Internetseite zuständig?  
 

Roman

July 22, 2018, 02:43:49 PM
Hallo,

Ich lese viel hier und wollte mich mal erkundigen wie es mit Marcel so steht..Hatte letzte Woche mit ihm gesprochen und es geht ihm gut! Hatte Johann geschrieben wie ich helfen kann..
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:41:15 PM
Nyom Roman

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