* * *

Tipitaka Khmer

 Please feel welcome to join the transcription project of the Tipitaka translation in khmer, and share one of your favorite Sutta or more. Simply click here or visit the Forum: 

Search ATI on ZzE

Zugang zur Einsicht - Schriften aus der Theravada Tradition



Access to Insight / Zugang zur Einsicht: Dhamma-Suche auf mehr als 4000 Webseiten (deutsch / english) - ohne zu googeln, andere Ressourcen zu nehmen, weltliche Verpflichtungen einzugehen. Sie sind für den Zugang zur Einsicht herzlich eingeladen diese Möglichkeit zu nutzen. (Info)

Random Sutta
Random Article
Random Jataka

Zufälliges Sutta
Zufälliger Artikel
Zufälliges Jataka


Arbeits/Work Forum ZzE

"Dhammatalks.org":
[logo dhammatalks.org]
Random Talk
[pic 30]

Recent Topics

[Today at 12:35:19 PM]

[Today at 07:03:02 AM]

[May 24, 2018, 12:57:14 PM]

[May 24, 2018, 11:26:31 AM]

[May 24, 2018, 09:40:23 AM]

[May 24, 2018, 07:47:05 AM]

[May 24, 2018, 02:15:56 AM]

[May 23, 2018, 12:17:17 PM]

[May 23, 2018, 11:36:19 AM]

[May 22, 2018, 02:24:31 PM]

[May 22, 2018, 06:38:12 AM]

[May 22, 2018, 06:34:50 AM]

[May 22, 2018, 02:19:40 AM]

[May 21, 2018, 02:03:59 PM]

[May 21, 2018, 12:43:26 PM]

[May 20, 2018, 01:57:53 PM]

[May 20, 2018, 02:01:29 AM]

[May 19, 2018, 03:17:12 PM]

[May 18, 2018, 05:52:47 PM]

[May 18, 2018, 04:46:38 PM]

[May 18, 2018, 05:20:24 AM]

[May 17, 2018, 08:50:41 AM]

[May 16, 2018, 05:27:26 PM]

[May 16, 2018, 04:03:25 PM]

[May 16, 2018, 12:41:24 PM]

[May 15, 2018, 03:37:50 PM]

[May 14, 2018, 05:08:38 PM]

[May 14, 2018, 04:26:06 AM]

[May 14, 2018, 04:21:01 AM]

[May 14, 2018, 03:31:11 AM]

[May 13, 2018, 01:49:20 PM]

[May 13, 2018, 08:51:59 AM]

[May 12, 2018, 08:51:05 PM]

[May 11, 2018, 07:29:39 AM]

[May 11, 2018, 07:22:21 AM]

[May 10, 2018, 01:08:38 PM]

[May 10, 2018, 10:44:40 AM]

[May 09, 2018, 09:08:01 PM]

[May 09, 2018, 12:37:56 PM]

[May 09, 2018, 10:26:38 AM]

[May 09, 2018, 08:01:35 AM]

[May 09, 2018, 01:42:29 AM]

[May 08, 2018, 12:27:54 PM]

[May 08, 2018, 08:04:18 AM]

[May 07, 2018, 10:55:15 PM]

[May 05, 2018, 10:15:37 AM]

[May 05, 2018, 03:06:29 AM]

[May 05, 2018, 02:29:46 AM]

[May 05, 2018, 01:56:47 AM]

[May 04, 2018, 03:59:03 PM]
[Buddha]

Author Topic: [Q&A] Is Nibbana 'here and now' wrong or right view?  (Read 257 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +339/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
[Q&A] Is Nibbana 'here and now' wrong or right view?
« on: May 01, 2018, 03:08:15 PM »
Is Nibbana 'here and now' wrong or right view?

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

 _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community _/\_ , my person tries to answer this question. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,

 *sgift*

Since it lead often to discussion and might be in this, or that way missunderstood.
As state as one kind of group of wrong view in, for example DN 1 , it needs to be right understood that this 'here and now'-view covers the idea of here and now, in this or that sensual world, either in the sphere of the wordilt pleasures, of in refined states of mind, in the Jhanas, connected with sensuality and a notion of "but when this self" in fine sensual, mind-object spheres. One could understand this kind of 'here and now' also as here and now in the khandhas, or here and now in nama-rupa. To find Nibbana there, such is impossible and wrong view.

This view is often held by certain Nihilistic Jhana friends, and of course also the drive of the huge Meditation-business and really not a good, since not seldom those people have no fear in wrongdoing, and neglect consquences, at the same time, having for now, a while a good trained mind of householder-equanimity.

Just look on the virtue of people, their engagements in wordily things and politic, and if tracing such elements in an Element, is actually easy to recognize grave wrong view.

BUT:

It is clear, that 'here and now' is the most accurate placement of Nibbana and in it's case has nothing more to do with view, but also being aware and believe, that Nibbana can be attained right here and now, by dropping the clinging aggregates, is of course right view.

An idea that Nibbana can only be attained in a "next world", e.g. not in this very "existence" is not supported by those having made known and realiced by themselves, here and now, the cessation of suffering.

May it help those eager after liberation and not after profiling of a sense of self and own in views.

The view, that Nibbana is only attained by the break off of the body (an aggregate already detached by an Arahat) is merely a view developed by Commentators, but yes, might be in as far the better choice, since overestimation does not have that much place to request ones assumings. On the other hand, this view has all to often lead to such foolishness like suicide.

So it's really importand to get it right and focus more on details, traceable, such as desire for being or not-being, notions of self or sensual desires.

Of(f) cause, there are also Brahm's who suggest notions like "we are right here in pure land, western world", which gives food for a lot of views, yes.

SO:

May you read, and pay close attention:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa


THE SELF’S UNBINDING IN THE HERE-&-NOW

“There are, monks, some contemplatives & brahmans who are proponents of unbinding [nibbāna] in the here-&-now, who proclaim the highest here-&-now unbinding of an existing being [sant satta][29] on five grounds. And with reference to what, coming from what, are these honorable contemplatives & brahmans proponents of unbinding in the here-&-now who proclaim the highest here-&-now unbinding of an existing being on five grounds?

58. “There is the case where a certain contemplative or brahman is of this opinion, this view: ‘When the self goes about endowed & provided with the five strings of sensuality, it’s to this extent that the self attains the highest here-&-now unbinding.’[30] This is how some proclaim the highest here-&-now unbinding of an existing being.

59. “Another says to him, ‘There is, my good man, that self of which you speak. I don’t say that there’s not. But it’s not to that extent that one attains the highest here-&-now unbinding. Why is that? Because sensuality is inconstant, stressful, subject to change. From its condition of being subject to change & becoming otherwise arises sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair. But when this self—quite secluded from sensuality, secluded from unskillful qualities—enters & remains in the first jhāna: rapture & pleasure born of seclusion, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation,[31] it’s to that extent that this self attains the highest here-&-now unbinding.’ This is how some proclaim the highest here-&-now unbinding of an existing being.

60. “Another says to him, ‘There is, my good man, that self of which you speak. I don’t say that there’s not. But it’s not to that extent that one attains the highest here-&-now unbinding. Why is that? Because precisely what’s thought or evaluated there: That’s declared to be gross. But when this self—with the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations—enters & remains in the second jhāna: rapture & pleasure born of concentration, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation, internal assurance, it’s to that extent that this self attains the highest here-&-now unbinding.’ This is how some proclaim the highest here-&-now unbinding of an existing being.

61. “Another says to him, ‘There is, my good man, that self of which you speak. I don’t say that there’s not. But it’s not to that extent that one attains the highest here-&-now unbinding. Why is that? Because precisely the state of mental exhilaration immersed in rapture there: That’s declared to be gross. But when this self, with the fading of rapture, remains equanimous, mindful, & alert, and, sensing pleasure with the body, enters & remains in the third jhāna, of which the noble ones declare, ‘Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding,’ it’s to that extent that this self attains the highest here-&-now unbinding.’ This is how some proclaim the highest here-&-now unbinding of an existing being.

62. “Another says to him, ‘There is, my good man, that self of which you speak. I don’t say that there’s not. But it’s not to that extent that one attains the highest here-&-now unbinding. Why is that? Because precisely the mental concern with “pleasure” there: That’s declared to be gross. But when this self, with the abandoning of pleasure & pain—as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress—enters & remains in the fourth jhāna: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain, it’s to that extent that this self attains the highest here-&-now unbinding.’ This is how some proclaim the highest here-&-now unbinding of an existing being.

“These, monks, are the contemplatives & brahmans who are proponents of unbinding in the here-&-now, who proclaim the highest here-&-now unbinding of an existing being on five grounds. And whatever contemplatives & brahmans who are proponents of unbinding in the here-&-now, who proclaim the highest here-&-now unbinding of an existing being, they all do so on one or another of these five grounds. There is nothing outside of this.

“With regard to this, the Tathāgata discerns that ‘These standpoints, thus seized, thus grasped at, lead to such & such a destination, to such & such a state in the world beyond.’ That the Tathāgata discerns. And he discerns what is higher than that. And yet, discerning that, he does not grasp at it. And as he is not grasping at it, unbinding [nibbuti] is experienced right within. Knowing, as they have come to be, the origination, ending, allure, & drawbacks of feelings, along with the escape from feelings, the Tathāgata, monks—through lack of clinging/sustenance—is released.

“These, monks, are the dhammas—deep, hard to see, hard to realize, tranquil, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise—that the Tathāgata proclaims, having directly known & realized them for himself, and that those who, rightly speaking in praise of the Tathāgata in line with what is factual, would speak.

And don't think, stinginess not a little abounded for now, that you even have attained any Jhana, not to speak of paths or fruits. In this envy and stinginess, you might not even find certain ideas of believing your world around being, even all sensual pleasures, Nibbana. No way without leaving home and stinginess first, developed based on gratitude.

Anumodana.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 03:23:15 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Johann

May 22, 2018, 10:11:37 AM
Sadhu!
 

Marcel

May 22, 2018, 09:37:30 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
einen verdienstvollen uposatha wünsche ich allen  :-* :-* :-*
 

Marcel

May 19, 2018, 03:07:57 PM
 :-* :-* :-*

ehrwürdiger bhante

 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 19, 2018, 03:05:38 PM
Nyom Marcel.
 

Johann

May 14, 2018, 01:24:42 PM
Sadhu!
 

Marcel

May 14, 2018, 01:23:37 PM
 :-* :-* :-*
allen ein verdienstvollen uposatha

 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 14, 2018, 08:34:09 AM
Schüsse von Wilderern am Tag sind ja nicht ungewöhnlich, doch aus mehreren Richtungen und automatischen Waffen doch bisher hier nicht üblich gewesen. Möge niemand anderen Schaden zufügen und sich mit Abstehen davon jeder beschützen.
 

Johann

May 14, 2018, 01:06:38 AM
It's not an accident that you came here and it will be not an accident whether one stays, comes back or leaves for another becoming or goes beyond.
 

Johann

May 13, 2018, 06:51:53 AM
Mag da keiner seine Mutter an dem Tag vergessen zu ehren.
 

Johann

May 11, 2018, 02:11:37 PM
Nyom Marcel.

Schlangentag und -nacht heute. Wem mag man was vergönnen? Der Schlange? Den Mäusen? Metta & Samvega oder umgekehrt? Mal angstlos Hunger, mal Angst, mal Maus, mal Schlange, essen, gegessen, verfolgen, gejagt...
 

Marcel

May 11, 2018, 11:57:36 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
ehrwürdiger bhante
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 10, 2018, 04:00:02 PM
Nyom Marcel.
 

Marcel

May 09, 2018, 03:08:42 PM
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 09, 2018, 07:01:42 AM
Nyom Matthew.
 

Johann

May 06, 2018, 11:49:06 PM
Chamreoun bo, Moritz
 

Moritz

May 06, 2018, 05:12:29 AM
Vandami Bhante _/\_
Einen angenehmen Tag. _/\_
 

Johann

May 04, 2018, 12:18:14 PM
...And what is lack of food for the arising of unarisen sloth & drowsiness, or for the growth & increase of sloth & drowsiness once it has arisen? There is the potential for effort, the potential for exertion, the potential for striving. To foster appropriate attention to them: This is lack
 

Johann

May 04, 2018, 12:14:44 PM
...“Und was ist das Fehlen von Nahrung für unaufgekommene Faulheit und Trägheit, oder für das Wachsen und Mehren von Faulheit unf Trägheit, wenn einmal aufgekommen? Da ist das Vermögen für Anstrengung, das Vermögen für Ausübung, das Vermögen für Streben. Dafür passende Aufmerk
 

Sophorn

April 30, 2018, 02:59:48 AM
Sadhu.  :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

April 30, 2018, 01:04:45 AM
Ein hingabevolles Visakha-Fest, allen die es heute begehen, oder nochmal.


A devoted Visakha-fest for all who conduct it today, or again.[/en]
 

Johann

April 29, 2018, 08:42:23 AM
Sadhu!
 

Sophorn

April 29, 2018, 05:54:57 AM
Viel Segen und Einsicht heute an Vesakh Bochea!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

April 29, 2018, 02:08:23 AM
Heute oder morgen gedenkt und erfreut man sich an Buddhas Geburt, Erwachen und letztes Dahinscheinden.

_/\_

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -
 

Marcel

April 28, 2018, 02:58:36 PM
 :-* Ehrwürdiger Bhante  :-*
 

Johann

April 28, 2018, 02:55:18 PM
Nyom Marcel.
 

Johann

April 28, 2018, 12:44:32 PM
Geizhals :) (und nach dem Dhamma gegeben, wird so und so nichts angenommen.

Sadhu! Und mudita!

Nyom Moritz.

Visitor

April 28, 2018, 10:27:19 AM
Möge es euch allen gut gehen! Danke für Alles. Ich bin für ewig verschuldet. Komme zurück wenn ich was zu geben habe.
 

Moritz

April 28, 2018, 07:48:45 AM
Vandami, Bhante _/\_
 

Marcel

April 25, 2018, 02:20:08 PM
 :-* sadhu, möge es dem ehrwürdigen bhante johann schnell wieder bessergehen :-*
 

Johann

April 25, 2018, 02:09:45 PM
Körper. Besser, Atma würde vor einigen Tagen mit medizin versorgt und be-iniziert. Ein paar Tage noch bis NW der Med. wohl weg ist.
 

Marcel

April 25, 2018, 02:02:51 PM
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

April 25, 2018, 02:00:11 PM
Atma ist/übt am Samma-vayamieren/-mimieren. Fegen, sozusagen.
 

Marcel

April 25, 2018, 01:58:03 PM
 :-* anumodana ehrwürdiger bhante johann ich werder darauf achten :-* wie geht es ihnen mit der malaria-erkankung?  :-*
 

Johann

April 25, 2018, 01:52:35 PM
Na gerade auf guten Zuständen SOLLTE man, zum Zwecke der wahren Sicherheit aufbauen, sie entwickeln und festigen, Nyom Marcel.
 

Marcel

April 25, 2018, 01:37:13 PM
 :-* "im moment" geht es mir gut! aber da kann ich wirklich nicht drauf bauen :-* wie ist das wohlbefinden des ehrwürdigen bhante Johann?  :-*
 

Johann

April 25, 2018, 01:25:09 PM
Wie geht es Nyom Marcel?
 

Marcel

April 25, 2018, 01:12:57 PM
 :-* ehrwürdiger bhante johann  :-*
 

Johann

April 25, 2018, 01:11:36 PM
Nyom Marcel
 

Johann

April 22, 2018, 09:11:17 AM
Sadhu!
 

Sophorn

April 22, 2018, 08:40:14 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
May every being be happy and free from dukkha.
May many renew their vows in silas today.   :-* :-* :-*
 

Danilo

April 15, 2018, 12:43:25 AM
Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

April 15, 2018, 12:38:56 AM
Nyom Danilo.
 

Johann

April 12, 2018, 10:05:15 AM
Moritz
 

Moritz

April 12, 2018, 08:34:11 AM
Namasakara, Bhante. _/\_
 

Moritz

April 10, 2018, 07:19:18 PM
Hello.
 

Johann

April 10, 2018, 01:09:20 PM
Nyom. (Sideboad ist stets zugeklappt... tech. Probl.) 3:00 ist auch schon guten Tag.
 

Moritz

April 10, 2018, 03:06:49 AM
Good day (night here)
_/\_
 

Moritz

April 10, 2018, 02:54:42 AM
Namasakara, Bhante. _/\_
 

Johann

April 09, 2018, 09:43:17 AM
Take your time Nyom Danilo and watch the breath to stay best calm for best benefit. A lot of chances to get ride of many ols burdens.
 

Danilo

April 08, 2018, 06:24:57 PM
_/\_

Show 50 latest