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[Buddha]

Author Topic: [Q&A] Do plants have life? How to handle this inregard not damaging life?  (Read 653 times)

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Online Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
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  • Sadhu! or +347/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

 _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community _/\_ , my person tries to answer this question. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,

since those questions appear often at this time and are merely poor, with certain stand answered, my person feels to add and correct some on that account.

If speaking about life, it's clear and not a little to doubt, that also for the Buddha plants are living being, if looking into an answer of a discussion between two young Brahmans, whether a person is sharped/defined by birth or by deeds. Here the Buddha started the answer by counting all visible living beings:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

The Blessed One said:

"Vaseññha, I will tell you step by step how it happens,
The classification of living things in this and other births.

Look at the grass and trees, although they are not aware,
This and the other have attributes peculiar to their births.

Tiṇarukkhepi jānātha,
na cāpi paṭijānare;
Liṅgaṃ jātimayaṃ tesaṃ,
aññamaññā hi jātiyo.


So also insects, like grasshoppers and ants
They have attributes peculiar to their births.

Look at the animals small and large
They have attributes peculiar to their births.

Look at the serpents with long backs going on their bellies,
They have attributes peculiar to their births.

Look at the fish too, who find food in the water.
They have attributes peculiar to their births.

Look at the birds flying through the air.
They have attributes peculiar to their births.

Although these have various attributes, at birth,
In humans various attributes are not evident at birth.

They are not in the hair, head, ears or eyes
Not in the mouth, nose, lips or eye-lashes

Not in the neck, flanks, stomach or back,
Not in the buttocks, chest, pudendum, nor in the sexual intercourse.

Not in the hands, feet, fingers or nails, nor in the knees and calves,
Not in the hue or voice, by which to know their birth.

In the individual bodies of humans, these are not evident,
They are designated by the activities of humans....

So there is no doubt in regard of if such as birth and life of plants take place.
The remark on plants here is "also they are not aware" not jānare. It's not even said not aware (conscious) but not knowing.

Plants are also (like often believed) not only by others called "one faculty life", but also by the Buddha, if we take for example the Vinaya, Mahavagga.

The broad hold view on plants in the school of Theravada, coming from Abhidhamma and Commentaries is that plants life does not arise because of kamma (actions) but because of temperature.

Well, then if people, holding such view, are asked: "We then are the big and small Bananatrees, beautiful and ugly, those with long life and short, with many disease and no disease?" If than answering in terms of "accidentally" or what ever theory, it can be said, that "Why don't apply this to all other beings as well? Isn't that not simply materialistic view?"

It also clear for everyone with eyes that there is a different between plants and a stone or a cristal. Plants not only react on touch but have also, without doubt desire for becoming and being and need nourishment for existence.

Now, also the Buddha did not gave much into elaborate on plants, aside of the kind of plants and the fact that all kind of plants are often used as dwelling by spirits, the kind and way how someone living the holly life, makes a living on the alms of the land, is clear and straight forward:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

...“‘Abandoning the taking of life, the contemplative Gotama abstains from the taking of life. He dwells with his rod laid down, his knife laid down, scrupulous, merciful, compassionate for the welfare of all living beings.’ It’s of this, monks, that a run-of-the-mill person, when praising the Tathāgata, would speak....

...“Or: ‘Whereas some contemplatives & brahmans, living off food given in faith, remain addicted to damaging seed & plant life such as these—plants propagated from roots, stems, joints, buddings, & seeds—the contemplative Gotama abstains from damaging seed and plant life such as these.’ It’s of this, monks, that a run-of-the-mill person, when praising the Tathāgata, would speak...
Quote from: ??

There are enough accounts and rules in the Vinaya, that makes life as well regard of plants for contemplatives clear. Not even picking a fruit from a tree, e.g. not abound yet, would be proper, not to speak about damaging sheds.

Since, like most, commentary and interpretations are to certain relaxation and seldom for restraining, have outwardly ease as object, also this matter is a very serious.

It's not to wonder why the infuence of merely low minded scholars and followers of literary interpretations has caused broad global plundering of plants life and wild life at large and founded on the commentaries and explainings of the householder and Brahmans who in this days carry the robes of the Arahats, triying to make a comfortable life and livelihood on it, is destroyed and used on their approve.

And is a story of "ironic" that those "householders" in robes today justify they not dwelling in more proper ways by tending to householders way, in ways of "but the forests are gone today".

The behaviour and costume in regard of nature and wild life, in regard of plants and the total careless making use of it, is a very dark mark in that tradition which like to call it self the tradition of the Noble Ones for merely poor lives entertaining of livelihood for the sake of sensual pleasure and becoming.

This account will another time not make many ordinary people feel happy, nevertheless, they would be incapable to refuse the facts and refuse the Nobility of those really Noble Ones or after them: the Buddha, the Dhamma and the Sangha.

Anumodana!
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Online Johann

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It's praisworthy that some read even good considered works, althought inspected through defilements, carefully , to get even more wordly right view and aspects of the issue. And then share also their attainings for the benefit of many, others then those in robes who are delight and full of joy when seeing trees cut and corpse assembled for they pointless and improper gained "Kutis"... uncountable suffering sacrificed for increasing death, becoming, gain and birth.

Sadhu!
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Johann

October 17, 2018, 06:01:23 PM
May all spend meritorious/good and higher last hours of this Sila-day.

Sokh chomreoun (may well being be developed [by everyone])
 

Johann

October 16, 2018, 03:15:10 PM
Nyom Roman.
 

Johann

October 12, 2018, 04:13:16 PM
Good to see Nyom Norum.
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 10:38:10 AM
Maybe of support for lasting satifaction: Seeds of Becoming .
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 06:57:38 AM
When ever love arises, dislike will be it's end. Who ever seeks out for friends, will get his enemy. Why? Because not willing to leave home. May wanderer gus find the way to never return. Mudita

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:58 AM
Vandami.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:22 AM
Nevertheless my courage of active participation  has been fallen down. Anyway I hope to come time to time.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam khamata me bhante.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:37:11 AM
Okasa bhante,

I didn't accepted Dymitros invitation to start a Theravada forum, because I thought this forum is pure Theravada. Now I regret about it, yet think this forum is comparatively good.  I learnt many valuable things from you and grateful to you. Nevertheless my courage of active partici
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 02:20:29 AM
What ever one searches for, that he/she will find. Less are those seeing the nature of combined thing, leaving home and go beyond Maras domain.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:45:18 PM
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:39:12 PM
When one is born in outer regions ... your island has drifted away.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:30:00 PM
macchariya, a boarder hard to cross to the middle way, abounding home, sakayaditthi, doubt and rituals.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:33:02 PM
However much one say, West is West, East is East.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 02:28:29 PM
Where ever there is east, there is west. And vici versa. Where ever there is nama, there is rupa. Where ever one seeks for a home, there he will suffer.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:03:31 PM
West is West

gus

October 06, 2018, 09:56:42 AM
belief of kamma, gratitude, independence, honesty, devotion : These are hard to find in people
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:49:14 AM
Again, a latin proverb mit be useful: Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi , patisota is always harmful if not just one own defilements or having a proper stand to help. Sota is the virtue required to resist in borderlands.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:41:52 AM
If in a borderland it's better to simply serve and support the Sangha. It's not smart to seek for other householders to nurish on traced imperfections of something required to uphold, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 04:54:48 AM
Okasa, happy to hear such things reagarding kamma. Many monks I have met don't directly speak about kamma because they have been tired after practicing some years and now bit relaxed.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:17:26 AM
Such can be total kusala and total akusala or simply defuse. Set your mind right and be mindful, that nothing will be of harm for yourself and others.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:15:27 AM
There is nothing not permitted. Merits or demerits are the actors responsibility. One is full in charge of ones action in this Domain here, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 03:50:00 AM
Bhante, is it permitted to ask questions or post things on behalf of other/future people ?

gus

October 05, 2018, 09:19:32 AM
We have been advised like this:
"No matter however much monks reject you,
Never leave the place."
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 09:09:37 AM
It's good when wanderer gus takes a rest, turns to a lonly place, enjoys the merits done and find a good place for his mind and fixes possible open wholes when clear where he likes to go some hours later.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 08:59:03 AM
Wanderer Gus knows how foolish this statement is. That is not the way to get out of a hole.

gus

October 05, 2018, 08:42:59 AM
okasa,
falling down from a status is suffering.
So, if I could stay in the hell-being status from the beginning, then no suffering.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:33:20 AM
From a state of a young Bhikkhu equal tradition...to householder... ...asura (now) on the border to animal, peta, hell-state. It can go quick if not having firm nissaya.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:29:27 AM
Aniccam vatta samsara...

gus

October 05, 2018, 06:56:28 AM
Evolution:
Bhante subhuti =>
Upasaka gus =>
Deva gus =>
Asura gus.

In the future:
Asura gus =>
Peta gus =>
Animal gus =>
Hell-being gus ???

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:51:42 AM
Okasa, I think bhante thinks me as a patriot because of some content of my posts. But it is not.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 05:41:33 AM
What ever one likes to, not touched like the moon, does not mean to praise what is blameworthy and vici-versa and to have metta not to let people run into hell if ways can be pointed out. Yet other choices at least are their. Be quick, your island drifts away!

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:34:15 AM
Okasa,
As long as I don't do exactly what you say, I think I'll not be able to make you happy or satisfied.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 02:12:55 PM
If thinking that this is for sure, if delighting in believing that connected things are a refuge and give space to rest: one may do so. Ones own choice. When ever one stops to nurish inwardly, ouwardly path and fruits die. Good as well as bad.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:28:51 AM
If bhante didn't let the weak person to live in avatar/deva mode, then he will lose both openness and connection. Up to now I have secured at least the connection.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:22:24 AM
Yet I appreciate and pay vandana for your care and advice on openness.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:19:56 AM
Please forgive me  bhante if I have made you tired. I don't like to accumulate akusala by making a monk tired in expecting a naughty chicken to be a good duck.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam Khamtu me bhante!
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:07:06 AM
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:01:00 AM
Differnt asked "why is Bhante not happy, dwell not in outwardly seeming being not touched?" Because it would not only confirm and show sign of aggreement of unwise acts, but also very incompassionate and cruel. Also place for suspecting corrupt ways and invite others to follow the comfortable dwelli
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:54:12 AM
No one is able to make my person angry, which does not mean that he would not appear angry so to possible prevent from doing what is not conductive for liberation, even lead in lower states. Nothing to worry, but also no invitation to test it foolish since it could hurt one self and others.

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:46:39 AM
Okasa bhante, Isn't there at least single way to stay anonymous without making you angry?
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:33:12 AM
corr: "it's, the domain of the Noble Ones, is nobody's personal domain" there are no wards around fields for merits and no tickets to pay
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:29:31 AM
What ever Deva gus feels inspired. It's oneones personal domain and all giving is good in the distance of the brigh cool moon. One should not fear, should not be shy to do what is good and praised by the wise but be quick!

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:21:39 AM
Bhante, is that mean you don't like me to talk about higher subjects and like to talk about basics only?
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:02:12 AM
It would be more than good if teaching others a lot on the topic vandami (paying respect) and khamatu (asking for forgiviness) since unknown and not practiced here around this field of merits in compassion to former relatives, Deva gus.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:55:38 AM
...total no problem to dwell and lay down in the cool shadow to heal at all and no need to ask for pardon when intended for progressing and to get fit for the battles so hard to win.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:52:39 AM
But they would not feed them in ways which might look as nurishing relations for wordly sake directly, for people not understanding would think "look, he is herding, carry for his cattle, he wasts the gift of the land, the heritage of the Gems for his becoming and own gain. Understood? Total no prob
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:45:29 AM
Never would people of integrity send away pets, petas or sick, for they are not able to change for now but possible can gain of what they need to change.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:42:28 AM
If, just to think about, one lives deliberatly with sign showing a rejection of firm trust in kamma, one lives in nurishing the danger of falling into grave wrong views and give ways that others follow what is improper to do. Just to reflect. How ever wishing to do.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:36:03 AM
What ever one does, holds as refuge or abounds, either good or bad refuge, one does for one self. Ones own choices, ones own fruits, ones own limitations, hindrences.

gus

October 04, 2018, 09:28:15 AM
Khamatu me bhante!
My previous  post was this.
"Please forgive me and give birth to kindness ao as to let me live here anonymous "

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