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Talkbox

2019 Feb 21 03:15:02
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Feb 20 15:56:46
Johann: see here

2019 Feb 20 13:33:02
Cheav Villa: ពូចាន់រ័ត្ន សុំអោយសួរព្រះអង្គ តើម្សិលមិញ រឺ​ម្សិលម្ង៉ៃ​ មានមនុស្ស​ប្រុសម្នាក់ស្រីម្នាក់ ឡើងទៅលើភ្នំ ឬទេ?

2019 Feb 20 13:31:37
Cheav Villa: ថ្វាយបង្គំ​ព្រះអង្គ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 18 14:34:39
Johann: Meister Moritz

2019 Feb 18 13:29:24
Moritz: Leaving. May Bhante and all have a good day. _/\_

2019 Feb 18 13:18:25
Moritz: _/\_

2019 Feb 18 09:31:39
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Feb 18 08:19:34
Johann: Where and what to practice?

2019 Feb 18 08:15:08
Johann: Where and when ever good inspired and worthy to give into.

2019 Feb 18 08:14:03
Johann: That place here is not that different, and Nyom did already a lot here. And don't forget: Punna iomething that arises in ones heart, not outwardly.

2019 Feb 18 07:34:01
Cheav Villa: ជាមួយនឹង​ក្រុម​​លោកម្ចាស់​ស្រេង​   _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 18 07:32:56
Cheav Villa: កូណាមិនបានទៅចូលរួមមាឃបូជានៅឱរ៉ាល់ឆ្នាំនេះ តែសង្ឃឹមនឹងបានទៅចូលរួម​ពិធីឡើងកុដិនៅខែ3 

2019 Feb 18 03:52:46
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 18 01:21:42
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2019 Feb 18 01:21:10
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 18 01:16:11
Johann: Bhante. Nyom Villa.

2019 Feb 18 01:14:29
Johann: Nyom Moritz. Sokh chomreoun

2019 Feb 18 00:34:02
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Feb 15 04:14:01
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 15 03:43:29
Johann: Another day, another possibility. We don't know what tomorrow might be

2019 Feb 15 03:43:01
Johann: ថ្ងៃ ថ្មី មួូយ ជា ឳកាស ថ្មី មួយ ទៀត។ យើង មិន អាច ដឹង មុន នូវ អ្វី ដែល នឹង កើតឡើង ថ្ងៃ ស្អែក

2019 Feb 12 05:47:26
Johann: Nyom Chanroth

2019 Feb 11 07:35:04
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 11 07:01:15
Johann: Bhante

2019 Feb 10 15:18:50
Vithou: Hope Preah Ang doing well too.. Thanks Preah Ang

2019 Feb 10 15:17:51
Vithou: Nhom kuna doing well so far.

2019 Feb 10 12:29:57
Johann: Nyom Vithou. But Nyom is well so far?

2019 Feb 10 12:02:00
Vithou: Actually they put in the kidnee. :)

2019 Feb 10 12:01:26
Vithou:  take it out on 20 Feb

2019 Feb 10 12:01:25
Vithou:  take it out on 20 Feb

2019 Feb 10 12:01:12
Vithou: the doctor put it for one month . I will

2019 Feb 10 12:00:28
Vithou: Kuna Tvay Bongkom Preah Ang  nyom kuna is fne now but still have a pipe inside mybody

2019 Feb 10 11:47:41
Johann: Sokh chomreoun Nyom Buddhi

2019 Feb 10 11:44:41
Ieng Puthy: ករុណាខានបានចូលមកក្នុងវេបសាយអានព្រះធម៌អស់ប៉ុន្មានថ្ងៃ

2019 Feb 10 11:41:53
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំុ Vandami Bhante

2019 Feb 09 14:43:21
Cheav Villa: សួស្តី​ពូចាន់រ័ត្ម _/\_

2019 Feb 09 14:42:08
Johann: ញោម Chanroth

2019 Feb 09 11:32:48
Johann: ខ្លះ ... how ever, good to here

2019 Feb 09 10:30:33
Cheav Villa: វិធូថាគាត់បានធូរខ្លះហើយ គាត់នឹងរកពេលទូលព្រះអង្គ តាម​Talk box  _/\_

2019 Feb 09 02:49:21
Cheav Villa: កូណាបានសួរគាត់ដែរ តែមិនទាន់មានការឆ្លើយតបទេ ប្រហែលជាគាត់រវល់ខ្លាំង  _/\_

2019 Feb 08 15:24:14
Johann: How is Nyom Vithou doing, Nyom Villa? Nyom Chanroth told that he still has burden after the hospital.

2019 Feb 07 13:07:06
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 07 13:04:40
Johann: Nearly out of power("suns gift") for today again. May all give into good deeds with their power left.

2019 Feb 07 13:04:33
Johann: Nearly out of power("suns gift") for today again. May all give into good deeds with their power left.

2019 Feb 05 13:35:45
Johann: Meister Vinodh

2019 Feb 05 08:45:20
Johann: មុដិតា

2019 Feb 05 07:46:50
Cheav Villa: អរព្រះគុណ​ ព្រះអង្គ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ ពួកខ្ញុំកូណា បានធូរស្បើយ​ច្រើន​ អំពីបញ្ហាសុខភាពរាងកាយ​  _/\_

2019 Feb 05 07:25:29
Johann: Nyom Villa. Family, all healthy and well?

2019 Feb 05 03:34:18
Johann: Mr. Nathan

2019 Feb 04 13:42:11
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Feb 04 04:25:07
Cheav Villa: កូណា​ត្រេកអរ​ ដែលបានឃើញផ្លូវទៅមុខ ឧបនិស្ស័យ​ការបដិបត្តិ​ឧបោសថ​យឺតយូរ​  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 04 04:22:09
Cheav Villa: ការហាត់ធ្វើឧបោសថបានបន្តិចបន្តួួច ដោយវិធីស្រាយចំណងដែលជាប់មាំ

2019 Feb 04 04:18:58
Cheav Villa: ព្រះអង្គ​ _/\_ ចិត្តនឿយណាយចន្លោះពេលបានសុខ និងបានទុក្ខ

2019 Feb 04 04:04:13
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ កូណាព្រះអង្គ

2019 Feb 04 03:55:36
Johann: English iti 49

2019 Feb 04 03:51:37
Johann: Importand teaching in regard of wishing for becoming or not-becoming! ទិដ្ឋិគតសូត្រ (១២.)

2019 Feb 04 03:37:57
Johann: It can be observed free of all Sakaya ditthi as well.

2019 Feb 04 03:25:52
Johann: Uposatha is a good tradition to take on.

2019 Feb 04 03:24:53
Johann: This, the Buddha told, can not be archived by just wishing, Nyom, the end of suffering.

2019 Feb 04 02:23:26
Cheav Villa: May​ all possibilities in a rebirth has decreased  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 04 02:18:49
Cheav Villa: Since my grandmother, my dad, I kana has not taken on the traditional of Chinese new year

2019 Feb 04 01:28:26
Johann: An insightful Chines New Year and new moon day, a rebirth of another round of possibility in chosing ways with every action.

2019 Feb 03 16:08:02
Ieng Puthy: ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំុព្រះអង្គvandami 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

2019 Feb 03 12:20:05
Cheav Villa:  កូណាព្រះអង្គ  _/\_ 

2019 Feb 03 12:10:00
Johann: Nyom Villa

2019 Feb 03 07:06:33
Johann: Nyom Buddhi

2019 Feb 02 16:53:13
Johann: All a matter of leaving house and not searching for the next, Nyom.

2019 Feb 02 16:51:36
Johann: Editing post here is not so good since there is a software issue, cutting away all to 200 characters.

2019 Feb 02 16:18:35
Ieng Puthy: ព្រះអង្គករុណានឹករលឹកភ្នំឱរា៉ល់ណាស់ សង្ឃឹមថាថ្ងៃណាមួយករុណានឹងបានទៅថ្វាយបង្គំុព្រះអង្គដោយផ្ទាល់ ។ បេីបុណ

2019 Feb 02 15:52:20
Johann: Nyom Buddhi

2019 Feb 02 15:35:54
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំុVandami Bhante.

2019 Feb 02 15:33:38
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

2019 Feb 02 10:35:46
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 02 08:36:16
Johann: Atma will then make a "sun-break" for today

2019 Feb 01 11:36:30
Ieng Puthy: ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំ🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻Vandami Bhante

2019 Jan 31 15:55:14
Johann: Bhante Muni

2019 Jan 30 15:40:30
Johann: Nyom Buddhi

2019 Jan 30 05:24:55
Johann: "sreng" is really "nasty" if becoming. It's also easy to get by sweeping dusty group and dry gras.

2019 Jan 30 04:35:46
Cheav Villa: កូណាព្រះអង្គ  _/\_

2019 Jan 30 04:11:18
Johann: It's possible not "sreng", Nyom, it's autumn diseas, and infection not to be healed. The origin why the Buddha allowed tonics ("food" at "wrong" time), weakness of the body.

2019 Jan 30 03:27:08
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jan 30 01:12:39
Sophorn: Bhante Khemakura, kana hofft, Bhante geht es besser!  _/\_

2019 Jan 30 01:12:10
Sophorn: Vandami Bhante Khemakura  _/\_

2019 Jan 30 01:11:53
Sophorn: Vandami Bhante Indannano  _/\_

2019 Jan 30 01:11:38
Sophorn: Vandami Bhante Johann _/\_

2019 Jan 29 10:12:10
Johann: Bhante. Wie geht es der Unterlippe?

2019 Jan 27 04:59:09
Johann: Nyom Vithou

2019 Jan 26 14:38:07
Cheav Villa: Vandāmi Bhante Indaññāno  _/\_

2019 Jan 25 16:12:30
Cheav Villa:  :o _/\_

2019 Jan 25 16:04:02
Johann: There are two, actually. Something to be careful about.

2019 Jan 25 15:39:25
Cheav Villa: Vilāsa  :D karuṇā found this meaning in Pāḷi Dictionary  _/\_

2019 Jan 25 15:24:52
Johann: No vaṇṇa-macchariya: rejoicing that other appear as vilasa as oneself... Sadhu!

2019 Jan 25 15:17:51
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jan 25 14:29:43
Johann: If Ñoma Buddhi likes to wear the color of an ārāmikinī, to be able to edit, add translations, corrections, it should be no problem. Ñoma Vīḷa might help to get known the "power and responsibility" of goodness.

2019 Jan 25 14:22:02
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏼អរព្រះគុណព្រះអង្គ

2019 Jan 25 11:55:49
Johann: No problem Nyom, that was clear (word prediction...). Only moderator and admin can edit text in the shoutbox.

2019 Jan 25 11:04:42
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻ព្រះអង្គករុណាសរសេរអក្សរខុស ករុណារកកន្លែងលុបអក្សរដែលខុសមិនឃេីញទេ ។ ករុណាចង់សរសេរVandami Bhante មិនមែន vandalism Bhante ទេ។

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Author Topic: [Q&A] Isn't Asking for Money a Violation of Vinaya? And certain bypasses...  (Read 825 times)

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Offline Johann

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  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Isn't Asking for Money a Violation of Vinaya?

Was asked, and after an "explaing" a further question raised by Upasaka Ruslan :

Does kind of sound like a way to bypass the rule of not accepting money.
"I don't accept money or ask lay people for anything, give the money to my lay person attendant and i will ask him for it if i need it"

Also there are many, especially in the west, who like to lift themselves above others by very hypocritical and inhonest ways, saying "we are the good one, we don't accept money", not only their mind is nothing but full of money, budgets, plans and desires for this and for that and their actions deeds and services have less objectives aside of getting the budget holes filled.

Althought the sadness that this very good essay of Ven. Bodhesako has at least also come under the control, has been taken, by householder-monks, is a very useful and straight explaining, worthy a read: The Use of Money by Monks

You should be clear about it, that a wordling is incapable to keep this precept seriously, by heart and out of understanding, and that you would hardly ever find such a person, come across or get aware of such this days.

You do not seriously believe that those Western Monks you associate with, are really that different to the "bad" ones? You wouldn't seriously believe that someone like Yuttadhammo did, does, will not handle and controll money and order like a king who never touches money? Or those ex-monks, speaking with big voice in the topic: do you seriously think that they have kept the simply precept... they all might have kept this or another hypocritical and inhonest approach, nothing more.

So from this point, it's not very smart to divide between others not really capable to live a homeless life and stick with the basic precepts.

It's easy to make one or another silly monk on face book who probably never really learned Vinaya to a bad man, but it's another to glorify such people like Sujato Bhikkhu and so on, who are not ashamed to ask for money and budget even at large in public, to maintain their livelihood, on the other side. What do you think will bring more harm for many? Ohh, you got certain personal benefit from it...

If really interested in the nature and the reasons of this precepts, if wishing to understand it by heart, it may be expressed. For it's a joy to talk with someone having certain virtue in his heart, rejoices in talks on virtue, and not on this or that stand, and it's of no use and burdensome to do such in regard of a person who just seeks for justifications of his/her innoble and dishonest ways.

« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 01:16:25 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

In case a king, a royal official, a brahman, or a householder sends a robe fund for the sake of a bhikkhu via a messenger, (saying,) "Having purchased a robe with this robe fund, clothe the bhikkhu named so-and-so with a robe": If the messenger, approaching the bhikkhu, should say, "This is a robe fund being delivered for the sake of the venerable one. May the venerable one accept this robe fund," then the bhikkhu is to tell the messenger: "We do not accept robe funds, my friend. We accept robes (robe-cloth) as are proper according to season."

Here it ends, but if (!) then...

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

If the messenger should say to the bhikkhu, "Does the venerable one have a steward?" then, bhikkhus, if the bhikkhu desires a robe, he may indicate a steward — either a monastery attendant or a lay follower — (saying,) "That, my friend, is the bhikkhus' steward[1]."

If the messenger, having instructed the steward and going to the bhikkhu, should say, "I have instructed the steward the venerable one indicated. May the venerable one go (to him) and he will clothe you with a robe in season," then the bhikkhu, desiring a robe and approaching the steward, may prompt and remind him two or three times, "I have need of a robe." Should (the steward) produce the robe after being prompted and reminded two or three times, that is good.

If he should not produce the robe, (the bhikkhu) should stand in silence four times, five times, six times at most for that purpose. Should (the steward) produce the robe after (the bhikkhu) has stood in silence for the purpose four, five, six times at most, that is good.

If he should not produce the robe (at that point), should he then produce the robe after (the bhikkhu) has endeavored further than that, it is to be forfeited and confessed.

If he should not produce (the robe), then the bhikkhu himself should go to the place from which the robe fund was brought, or a messenger should be sent (to say), "The robe fund that you, venerable sirs, sent for the sake of the bhikkhu has given no benefit to the bhikkhu at all. May the you be united with what is yours. May what is yours not be lost." This is the proper course here.
 1. Note: not "my steward", an importand detail.

So at no tome there is the idea of "my money", "my budge" or "my possibility" by a monk keeping such discipline and it's a matter of nature that one taking it serious would not even step down till the burden of offering ways toward a steward, but simply let lay people do of what they wish to, accept just of what is proper to exept and get not involved even a little.

Think just on the many problems which will naturally arise if a steward is not responsible toward helping a donor in his desires. Nothing but problems and normal stories of win and lose of live.

To reject even all signs of "having" a steward, not to speak of approving that someone takes care of certain things, is the wise and Noble track.

Even this "compassionate" way, given by the Buddha for the donor (don't think it's a help for monks who strive rightly) bares a lot of dangers and it is not to be regarded to be just a story that monks, having associated with so called stewards got hardly harmed an killed.

So if seeing, or getting aware that someone might give someone else the task to care for something for "your" purpose as a monk, as a person keeping the 10th precept, simply regard it as never been hear, seen, known... since all else will be just for unease and food for even very worse things.

Money and deals is the householders sphere, and the sphere of their Brahmans and thiefs of the Noble Ones.

Do not touch it and act wise in what ever side of a fruitful relation with those toward Unbinding you are, whether giver or receiver.

As a person not even having reached the stream, not even able to refrain of taking what is not given, is pointless if wishing to lift oneselve above a matter which actually requires to be already beyound the path and fruit of one in Dhamma.

This world is merely void of people who even have reached the stream and someone seriously having let go of the use of money and control, my person did not really met more than maybe two or three. In western spheres: dream on and let you be entertained and cheated.

In this regard it should be wisely considered, that even if those who openly hold money, even request money, althought very ugly and dirty are by far not that dirty and inhonest, unworthy, like those acting hidden, take of what they not even have asked for and what has not even given by a deal, for those, althought often the biggest voices, are not even worthy, not regarded, as monks or in affliction.

And it's not said to give any approval toward not abstaining from money, but for the purpose to possible get not blinded by those acting more then ugly by the means of using knowledge for their personal gain and who are not a lttle in the position of blame others within their poor ways of life.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 02:22:00 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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