* *

Tipitaka Khmer

 Please feel welcome to join the transcription project of the Tipitaka translation in khmer, and share one of your favorite Sutta or more. Simply click here or visit the Forum: 

Search ATI on ZzE

Zugang zur Einsicht - Schriften aus der Theravada Tradition



Access to Insight / Zugang zur Einsicht: Dhamma-Suche auf mehr als 4000 Webseiten (deutsch / english) - ohne zu googeln, andere Ressourcen zu nehmen, weltliche Verpflichtungen einzugehen. Sie sind für den Zugang zur Einsicht herzlich eingeladen diese Möglichkeit zu nutzen. (Info)

Random Sutta
Random Article
Random Jataka

Zufälliges Sutta
Zufälliger Artikel
Zufälliges Jataka


Arbeits/Work Forum ZzE

"Dhammatalks.org":
[logo dhammatalks.org]
Random Talk
[pic 30]

Recent Topics

[Today at 09:24:48 AM]

[Today at 04:40:47 AM]

[October 21, 2018, 01:56:43 PM]

[October 20, 2018, 03:37:18 PM]

[October 20, 2018, 03:43:44 AM]

[October 20, 2018, 02:00:37 AM]

[October 19, 2018, 12:17:08 PM]

[October 19, 2018, 09:33:34 AM]

[October 19, 2018, 02:20:38 AM]

[October 18, 2018, 06:34:44 PM]

[October 18, 2018, 05:21:09 PM]

[October 18, 2018, 12:57:57 PM]

[October 18, 2018, 11:45:21 AM]

[October 18, 2018, 10:20:19 AM]

[October 18, 2018, 09:48:37 AM]

[October 18, 2018, 06:05:37 AM]

[October 17, 2018, 04:15:34 PM]

[October 16, 2018, 04:14:38 PM]

[October 16, 2018, 04:06:49 PM]

[October 16, 2018, 12:27:08 PM]

[October 16, 2018, 10:58:44 AM]

[October 16, 2018, 10:04:06 AM]

[October 16, 2018, 08:36:14 AM]

[October 15, 2018, 11:40:47 AM]

[October 15, 2018, 01:04:28 AM]

[October 12, 2018, 06:02:30 PM]

[October 12, 2018, 05:48:30 PM]

[October 12, 2018, 02:28:52 PM]

[October 12, 2018, 12:43:18 PM]

[October 12, 2018, 10:41:10 AM]

[October 12, 2018, 04:43:13 AM]

[October 12, 2018, 04:33:02 AM]

[October 09, 2018, 10:08:20 AM]

[October 09, 2018, 06:48:13 AM]

[October 08, 2018, 02:12:05 PM]

[October 08, 2018, 09:34:16 AM]

[October 07, 2018, 04:58:08 PM]

[October 07, 2018, 04:16:43 PM]

[October 07, 2018, 03:54:26 PM]

[October 07, 2018, 03:41:07 PM]

[October 07, 2018, 02:27:45 PM]

[October 07, 2018, 12:57:09 PM]

[October 07, 2018, 12:51:04 PM]

[October 06, 2018, 02:25:16 PM]

by gus
[October 06, 2018, 01:13:54 PM]

[October 06, 2018, 11:43:45 AM]

[October 06, 2018, 04:06:18 AM]

[October 06, 2018, 01:29:35 AM]

Author Topic: Modern "hierarchy" and devotion - obstacles: āgati & agati  (Read 1287 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +347/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
It's really difficult. Since the global tendency goes so strong after the illusion that there are good gains to be expected by pseudo liberalism, yet the "bad" authorities (giver/taker of sensuality and low identification) are even stronger as before, it seems to be very unlikely that any larger group of those delight in giving and devotion into more sublime might, if even still existing, might continue, and not soon disapear. And that even in devotion of higher realms within the kama loka. At best it may become an ordinaly animal and pets realm here, and becoming a husband be the highest graspable, desired.

We can see a lot of those, who previous went out for higher, return on half path, and serve the lower, we can see some who try to establish an realm of existence and nurishment, like a camp on the half way up to the top, terrible suffering under the bad and disappearing of nurishment and requisites and hardly one can be traced moving forward, even gathered followings into more refined.

It's like watching the drive of a fast running wheel dissolving, slowly stopping, sometimes seeming to turn in the other direction, while facing the clear perception of the impact for many, caused by leaders either giving themselves samples of giving and servic the higher, but even showing by there sample, that it is of benefit to nurish lower first, yet not even fulfill they duties in given relations.

Like if ants would have found a Zuckerberg, a sugar mountain: which of those "blessed" ones would ever try to climb up?

Born in the Zuckerberg-realm, kama-loka, having created ones world such, is really a nasty caught. Do start to hate that, in turns, is natural, but not serve for gaining the unconditioned.

Gati, gati, para gati, parasam gati, Bodhi swaha.

Actually a real good mantra, if remembering the spelling right.

'Becoming (or aspiration, inclination), becoming, higher/transcendent becoming, higher bound/ or proper becoming, Awakening: Done the End "Evam" "



It's "actually" a well known "tibetan" mantra, simple and on it's own very proper.

Maybe Upasaka Lal like to sacrifice gifts of elaborations on gati on this working place for good condition in a Sangha-sub-realm.

Having shortly listened the clip and looked after other in Zucker-mountains realms... torrible! No wonder at all, pseudo liberation in total ignorance of rupa: cut of by destruction of any intelligence in discrimination of upward and downward.

Let's try to give a "push" toward good conditions in ears rupas:
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 01:35:29 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Online Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +347/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Re: Moder "hierarchy" - obstacle
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2018, 01:28:48 AM »
The more modern educated people are, and that counts especially for education in all spheres of originally religions teachings and spheres which have to start with devotion, but also other skills, are strongly lacking of feeling of obligation, gratitude and generosity, would not give up any gained means not for just maintaining their livelihood. If they are good, they sacrifice downward.

That's why every kind of guild or craft died, dies out.

In Khmer language, the/a similar word to gati (which means walking a direction) is used for becoming: gat and in combination with jea, jāti, it's used for coming to birth.

It's good to be clear that for what ever one walks for, and ist not a static matter, goes after, one arrives.

If going after their "kids", their kamma, one, how ever old, becomes a child. Generations given to their childs, devoted formost to their offspring, naturally becomes parent-less.

This global liberal and socialistic system is a systematic destruction of families, destruction and depriving of parents, replacing them with devotion to productivity, low sensual pleasures and most low becoming of a large low class with orientation toward the lower. Generations of orphans driven exclusively by gross craving after sensuality and becoming/being, restrained to act in ways of sublime virtues.

gat is also the word for the east, the direction where the sun takes birth ever morning, the direction devoted since anicent times. Now devotion has turned into West. The word for Western direction is lic, down. People of old have never regarded this direction. And the end of the arising of the Buddha, the start of decay, is symbolic toward east, where the Buddhas face was directed to at his Paranibbana.

Since then the devotion was nevertheless toward east. It's just in this days that devotion is given into west and destruction of any higher becoming, walking toward what is really Brah(ma) has turned it strong devotion toward deluded Brahmas an Mara, death and decay. Taking the unconditioned for conditioned and vici versa. Real for unreal, sugati, well-going, for the wrong to follow.

Now children are told since small, that parents, teacher... have a duty to "be devoted" toward them, need to care.

It's really not likely that the would be those who do not stay in a strong state of wrong view.

Their they stand around, left of parent, stampering with their feeds, angry, "I don't go", while the signs of the parents disappear.

Gati, gati, ...agati, woops

The King of Death

'We' live like a chicken who doesn't know what's going on. In the morning it takes its baby chicks out to scratch for food. In the evening, it goes back to sleep in the coop. The next morning it goes out to look for food again. Its owner scatters rice for it to eat every day, but it doesn't know why its owner is feeding it. The chicken and its owner are thinking in very different ways.

The owner is thinking, "How much does the chicken weigh?" The chicken, though, is engrossed in the food. When the owner picks it up to heft its weight, it thinks the owner is showing affection.

We too don't know what's going on: where we come from, how many more years we'll live, where we'll go, who will take us there. We don't know this at all.

The King of Death is like the owner of the chicken. We don't know when he'll catch up with us, for we're engrossed — engrossed in sights, sounds, smells, tastes, tactile sensations, and ideas. We have no sense that we're growing older. We have no sense of enough.

By the way, a notion of begining that introduces to all of this is when teacher and leader use the term 'we' to encourage. Whould any wise go after someone adressing in terms of 'we', setting or seeing him equal his childs and disciples?

Since child, it always seemed to be most either deceitful or low to go after and being attracted by such to my person. It's like being devoted to a slave-nature, hopeless and facing all just as business as usual.

Moreover a sign of better not regard or folloa are those rejecting if wishing to giving respect. Someone knowing his actual stand and position does not trade with false modesty, like a beggar does not refuse to be given alms.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 02:53:59 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Online Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +347/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Re: Modern "hierarchy" and devotion - obstacles: āgati & agati
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2018, 05:01:59 AM »
Just saw a child lizard, one of those small with a fire red tail. It was a "baby", not even 1.5 cm long but actually total similar as an adult, walking alone and behave total similar.

The the thought arose: "Today people regard children of today much more and quicker developed, regarding them as faster an better. But is it really like that. If we look at animals, offsprings are very fast in being able to released. Human generally need good 20 years or more. It's probably wise to rethink if there is a development going on or simply a decay of measures and standards. As the wise said, the more degenerated humans are, the younger they are released to 'play' adulds, given certain responsibility."

When old people, even in the second time of their life act like children, associate with children and their ways, accept to be treated equal by children, encourave them to do so and are not devoted to renouncing. You may remember pictures of the grandfathers mountain biking, the grand parents appearing like young lovers, the inline skating 90... that is actually the real reason why people think children of today are smarter an more developed. Not because they are, objectively, but because the certain overall circumsatances got to the means of measure and of what is adult and mature, standards got lost.

gati, gati, down wardly walking, where would it "end"?

5cm long adult, just skilled in concentration to gain food, like the offspring, or slower?

When meeting young Cambodian haven grow up in modern world, because of the physical found and nutrition with simple knowledge, they are often very larg and know a lot, but not really helthy at all, especially emotional. People here, even the most wise monks, are mostly small and tiny, but mentally and in ways of conduct no match for them at all. That's the nutrition by living in association with wise and people of right view.

Just on translating The Wisdom of the Ego it might give some additional cleansing food for wise thoughts on the topic.

There is very much devotion toward very strange Super-Egos, the drive of "socialism", marxism. Animal-equal sociaties. It's not wrong to be government by super-egos, as long as they are of skilfull funktion, like that of admirable-friendhood, Devas and so on.

It's for the most not seek as a careful and compassionate order of the Buddha, to forbid his monks to show any sign of respect toward householde as a formal means and why it is so extremely destructive for many, when a Naga bows down, out of lacking wisdom is best shown in a tiny story called Der "Stolze Käfer im Kuhmist"-Segen - The "Proud beetle in the cowdung"-Blessing .

The same holds when leaders bow down to their fellows, parents to children an teacher to their students. No matter how "justified" in regard of personal things, it's crashing down whole sociaties.

How compassionate are you, if not working on being worthy of your position and give others perfect object of proper devotion?

Pets don't act out of wisdom and compassion and their masters likewise. It's simply driven by graving for sensuality and desire for being, no matter how low as long as feeded with sensual pleasures in great amount.

So be aware. If bowing and giving into lower, you crash down those regarding you acts and follow them, and you deprive others of possible fields of merits for them, to be able to get out by labor.

And if you take the lable and estimate of inferior, let others belive you had gained the gift of carring a certain good lable, you are simply stealing from your parents, the king and the Gems.

So it should be clear for those not deprived of any sign of what is the impact for one and many if one rejects natural and costume authority and at the same time devotes himselve to serve the lower, giving treasures downward for poor own livelihood and desire for getting honored without really haven done own sacrifices, not having gained anything sublime at all, nor living a holly live even outwardly.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 06:00:20 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Online Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +347/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Re: Modern "hierarchy" and devotion - obstacles: āgati & agati
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2018, 07:29:26 AM »
Just one of those foolish elephants sample:

Bhikkhu Bodhi encouraging to not sacrify toward Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha, but to consider to devote the best fruits for Samsara...

https://vesak.buddhistglobalrelief.org

Simply stealing and simply destroying sociaties... another futhur ox, pig or cow... see next zuckerberg-post: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157656075829152&id=802419151&ref=content_filter for own security for future more human cow killing advocating...

Peoples are bound to their leaders and vici versa, through an element, the Buddha said.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Johann

Today at 09:00:29 AM
Nyom Roman.
 

Johann

October 20, 2018, 02:52:14 AM
Atma leaves for alms round, Nyom Villa.
 

Johann

October 17, 2018, 06:01:23 PM
May all spend meritorious/good and higher last hours of this Sila-day.

Sokh chomreoun (may well being be developed [by everyone])
 

Johann

October 16, 2018, 03:15:10 PM
Nyom Roman.
 

Johann

October 12, 2018, 04:13:16 PM
Good to see Nyom Norum.
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 10:38:10 AM
Maybe of support for lasting satifaction: Seeds of Becoming .
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 06:57:38 AM
When ever love arises, dislike will be it's end. Who ever seeks out for friends, will get his enemy. Why? Because not willing to leave home. May wanderer gus find the way to never return. Mudita

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:58 AM
Vandami.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:22 AM
Nevertheless my courage of active participation  has been fallen down. Anyway I hope to come time to time.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam khamata me bhante.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:37:11 AM
Okasa bhante,

I didn't accepted Dymitros invitation to start a Theravada forum, because I thought this forum is pure Theravada. Now I regret about it, yet think this forum is comparatively good.  I learnt many valuable things from you and grateful to you. Nevertheless my courage of active partici
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 02:20:29 AM
What ever one searches for, that he/she will find. Less are those seeing the nature of combined thing, leaving home and go beyond Maras domain.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:45:18 PM
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:39:12 PM
When one is born in outer regions ... your island has drifted away.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:30:00 PM
macchariya, a boarder hard to cross to the middle way, abounding home, sakayaditthi, doubt and rituals.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:33:02 PM
However much one say, West is West, East is East.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 02:28:29 PM
Where ever there is east, there is west. And vici versa. Where ever there is nama, there is rupa. Where ever one seeks for a home, there he will suffer.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:03:31 PM
West is West

gus

October 06, 2018, 09:56:42 AM
belief of kamma, gratitude, independence, honesty, devotion : These are hard to find in people
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:49:14 AM
Again, a latin proverb mit be useful: Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi , patisota is always harmful if not just one own defilements or having a proper stand to help. Sota is the virtue required to resist in borderlands.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:41:52 AM
If in a borderland it's better to simply serve and support the Sangha. It's not smart to seek for other householders to nurish on traced imperfections of something required to uphold, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 04:54:48 AM
Okasa, happy to hear such things reagarding kamma. Many monks I have met don't directly speak about kamma because they have been tired after practicing some years and now bit relaxed.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:17:26 AM
Such can be total kusala and total akusala or simply defuse. Set your mind right and be mindful, that nothing will be of harm for yourself and others.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:15:27 AM
There is nothing not permitted. Merits or demerits are the actors responsibility. One is full in charge of ones action in this Domain here, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 03:50:00 AM
Bhante, is it permitted to ask questions or post things on behalf of other/future people ?

gus

October 05, 2018, 09:19:32 AM
We have been advised like this:
"No matter however much monks reject you,
Never leave the place."
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 09:09:37 AM
It's good when wanderer gus takes a rest, turns to a lonly place, enjoys the merits done and find a good place for his mind and fixes possible open wholes when clear where he likes to go some hours later.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 08:59:03 AM
Wanderer Gus knows how foolish this statement is. That is not the way to get out of a hole.

gus

October 05, 2018, 08:42:59 AM
okasa,
falling down from a status is suffering.
So, if I could stay in the hell-being status from the beginning, then no suffering.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:33:20 AM
From a state of a young Bhikkhu equal tradition...to householder... ...asura (now) on the border to animal, peta, hell-state. It can go quick if not having firm nissaya.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:29:27 AM
Aniccam vatta samsara...

gus

October 05, 2018, 06:56:28 AM
Evolution:
Bhante subhuti =>
Upasaka gus =>
Deva gus =>
Asura gus.

In the future:
Asura gus =>
Peta gus =>
Animal gus =>
Hell-being gus ???

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:51:42 AM
Okasa, I think bhante thinks me as a patriot because of some content of my posts. But it is not.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 05:41:33 AM
What ever one likes to, not touched like the moon, does not mean to praise what is blameworthy and vici-versa and to have metta not to let people run into hell if ways can be pointed out. Yet other choices at least are their. Be quick, your island drifts away!

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:34:15 AM
Okasa,
As long as I don't do exactly what you say, I think I'll not be able to make you happy or satisfied.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 02:12:55 PM
If thinking that this is for sure, if delighting in believing that connected things are a refuge and give space to rest: one may do so. Ones own choice. When ever one stops to nurish inwardly, ouwardly path and fruits die. Good as well as bad.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:28:51 AM
If bhante didn't let the weak person to live in avatar/deva mode, then he will lose both openness and connection. Up to now I have secured at least the connection.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:22:24 AM
Yet I appreciate and pay vandana for your care and advice on openness.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:19:56 AM
Please forgive me  bhante if I have made you tired. I don't like to accumulate akusala by making a monk tired in expecting a naughty chicken to be a good duck.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam Khamtu me bhante!
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:07:06 AM
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:01:00 AM
Differnt asked "why is Bhante not happy, dwell not in outwardly seeming being not touched?" Because it would not only confirm and show sign of aggreement of unwise acts, but also very incompassionate and cruel. Also place for suspecting corrupt ways and invite others to follow the comfortable dwelli
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:54:12 AM
No one is able to make my person angry, which does not mean that he would not appear angry so to possible prevent from doing what is not conductive for liberation, even lead in lower states. Nothing to worry, but also no invitation to test it foolish since it could hurt one self and others.

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:46:39 AM
Okasa bhante, Isn't there at least single way to stay anonymous without making you angry?
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:33:12 AM
corr: "it's, the domain of the Noble Ones, is nobody's personal domain" there are no wards around fields for merits and no tickets to pay
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:29:31 AM
What ever Deva gus feels inspired. It's oneones personal domain and all giving is good in the distance of the brigh cool moon. One should not fear, should not be shy to do what is good and praised by the wise but be quick!

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:21:39 AM
Bhante, is that mean you don't like me to talk about higher subjects and like to talk about basics only?
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:02:12 AM
It would be more than good if teaching others a lot on the topic vandami (paying respect) and khamatu (asking for forgiviness) since unknown and not practiced here around this field of merits in compassion to former relatives, Deva gus.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:55:38 AM
...total no problem to dwell and lay down in the cool shadow to heal at all and no need to ask for pardon when intended for progressing and to get fit for the battles so hard to win.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:52:39 AM
But they would not feed them in ways which might look as nurishing relations for wordly sake directly, for people not understanding would think "look, he is herding, carry for his cattle, he wasts the gift of the land, the heritage of the Gems for his becoming and own gain. Understood? Total no prob
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:45:29 AM
Never would people of integrity send away pets, petas or sick, for they are not able to change for now but possible can gain of what they need to change.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:42:28 AM
If, just to think about, one lives deliberatly with sign showing a rejection of firm trust in kamma, one lives in nurishing the danger of falling into grave wrong views and give ways that others follow what is improper to do. Just to reflect. How ever wishing to do.

Show 50 latest