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Author Topic: Modern "hierarchy" and devotion - obstacles: āgati & agati  (Read 1185 times)

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Offline Johann

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It's really difficult. Since the global tendency goes so strong after the illusion that there are good gains to be expected by pseudo liberalism, yet the "bad" authorities (giver/taker of sensuality and low identification) are even stronger as before, it seems to be very unlikely that any larger group of those delight in giving and devotion into more sublime might, if even still existing, might continue, and not soon disapear. And that even in devotion of higher realms within the kama loka. At best it may become an ordinaly animal and pets realm here, and becoming a husband be the highest graspable, desired.

We can see a lot of those, who previous went out for higher, return on half path, and serve the lower, we can see some who try to establish an realm of existence and nurishment, like a camp on the half way up to the top, terrible suffering under the bad and disappearing of nurishment and requisites and hardly one can be traced moving forward, even gathered followings into more refined.

It's like watching the drive of a fast running wheel dissolving, slowly stopping, sometimes seeming to turn in the other direction, while facing the clear perception of the impact for many, caused by leaders either giving themselves samples of giving and servic the higher, but even showing by there sample, that it is of benefit to nurish lower first, yet not even fulfill they duties in given relations.

Like if ants would have found a Zuckerberg, a sugar mountain: which of those "blessed" ones would ever try to climb up?

Born in the Zuckerberg-realm, kama-loka, having created ones world such, is really a nasty caught. Do start to hate that, in turns, is natural, but not serve for gaining the unconditioned.

Gati, gati, para gati, parasam gati, Bodhi swaha.

Actually a real good mantra, if remembering the spelling right.

'Becoming (or aspiration, inclination), becoming, higher/transcendent becoming, higher bound/ or proper becoming, Awakening: Done the End "Evam" "



It's "actually" a well known "tibetan" mantra, simple and on it's own very proper.

Maybe Upasaka Lal like to sacrifice gifts of elaborations on gati on this working place for good condition in a Sangha-sub-realm.

Having shortly listened the clip and looked after other in Zucker-mountains realms... torrible! No wonder at all, pseudo liberation in total ignorance of rupa: cut of by destruction of any intelligence in discrimination of upward and downward.

Let's try to give a "push" toward good conditions in ears rupas:
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 01:35:29 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: Moder "hierarchy" - obstacle
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2018, 01:28:48 AM »
The more modern educated people are, and that counts especially for education in all spheres of originally religions teachings and spheres which have to start with devotion, but also other skills, are strongly lacking of feeling of obligation, gratitude and generosity, would not give up any gained means not for just maintaining their livelihood. If they are good, they sacrifice downward.

That's why every kind of guild or craft died, dies out.

In Khmer language, the/a similar word to gati (which means walking a direction) is used for becoming: gat and in combination with jea, jāti, it's used for coming to birth.

It's good to be clear that for what ever one walks for, and ist not a static matter, goes after, one arrives.

If going after their "kids", their kamma, one, how ever old, becomes a child. Generations given to their childs, devoted formost to their offspring, naturally becomes parent-less.

This global liberal and socialistic system is a systematic destruction of families, destruction and depriving of parents, replacing them with devotion to productivity, low sensual pleasures and most low becoming of a large low class with orientation toward the lower. Generations of orphans driven exclusively by gross craving after sensuality and becoming/being, restrained to act in ways of sublime virtues.

gat is also the word for the east, the direction where the sun takes birth ever morning, the direction devoted since anicent times. Now devotion has turned into West. The word for Western direction is lic, down. People of old have never regarded this direction. And the end of the arising of the Buddha, the start of decay, is symbolic toward east, where the Buddhas face was directed to at his Paranibbana.

Since then the devotion was nevertheless toward east. It's just in this days that devotion is given into west and destruction of any higher becoming, walking toward what is really Brah(ma) has turned it strong devotion toward deluded Brahmas an Mara, death and decay. Taking the unconditioned for conditioned and vici versa. Real for unreal, sugati, well-going, for the wrong to follow.

Now children are told since small, that parents, teacher... have a duty to "be devoted" toward them, need to care.

It's really not likely that the would be those who do not stay in a strong state of wrong view.

Their they stand around, left of parent, stampering with their feeds, angry, "I don't go", while the signs of the parents disappear.

Gati, gati, ...agati, woops

The King of Death

'We' live like a chicken who doesn't know what's going on. In the morning it takes its baby chicks out to scratch for food. In the evening, it goes back to sleep in the coop. The next morning it goes out to look for food again. Its owner scatters rice for it to eat every day, but it doesn't know why its owner is feeding it. The chicken and its owner are thinking in very different ways.

The owner is thinking, "How much does the chicken weigh?" The chicken, though, is engrossed in the food. When the owner picks it up to heft its weight, it thinks the owner is showing affection.

We too don't know what's going on: where we come from, how many more years we'll live, where we'll go, who will take us there. We don't know this at all.

The King of Death is like the owner of the chicken. We don't know when he'll catch up with us, for we're engrossed — engrossed in sights, sounds, smells, tastes, tactile sensations, and ideas. We have no sense that we're growing older. We have no sense of enough.

By the way, a notion of begining that introduces to all of this is when teacher and leader use the term 'we' to encourage. Whould any wise go after someone adressing in terms of 'we', setting or seeing him equal his childs and disciples?

Since child, it always seemed to be most either deceitful or low to go after and being attracted by such to my person. It's like being devoted to a slave-nature, hopeless and facing all just as business as usual.

Moreover a sign of better not regard or folloa are those rejecting if wishing to giving respect. Someone knowing his actual stand and position does not trade with false modesty, like a beggar does not refuse to be given alms.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 02:53:59 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: Modern "hierarchy" and devotion - obstacles: āgati & agati
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2018, 05:01:59 AM »
Just saw a child lizard, one of those small with a fire red tail. It was a "baby", not even 1.5 cm long but actually total similar as an adult, walking alone and behave total similar.

The the thought arose: "Today people regard children of today much more and quicker developed, regarding them as faster an better. But is it really like that. If we look at animals, offsprings are very fast in being able to released. Human generally need good 20 years or more. It's probably wise to rethink if there is a development going on or simply a decay of measures and standards. As the wise said, the more degenerated humans are, the younger they are released to 'play' adulds, given certain responsibility."

When old people, even in the second time of their life act like children, associate with children and their ways, accept to be treated equal by children, encourave them to do so and are not devoted to renouncing. You may remember pictures of the grandfathers mountain biking, the grand parents appearing like young lovers, the inline skating 90... that is actually the real reason why people think children of today are smarter an more developed. Not because they are, objectively, but because the certain overall circumsatances got to the means of measure and of what is adult and mature, standards got lost.

gati, gati, down wardly walking, where would it "end"?

5cm long adult, just skilled in concentration to gain food, like the offspring, or slower?

When meeting young Cambodian haven grow up in modern world, because of the physical found and nutrition with simple knowledge, they are often very larg and know a lot, but not really helthy at all, especially emotional. People here, even the most wise monks, are mostly small and tiny, but mentally and in ways of conduct no match for them at all. That's the nutrition by living in association with wise and people of right view.

Just on translating The Wisdom of the Ego it might give some additional cleansing food for wise thoughts on the topic.

There is very much devotion toward very strange Super-Egos, the drive of "socialism", marxism. Animal-equal sociaties. It's not wrong to be government by super-egos, as long as they are of skilfull funktion, like that of admirable-friendhood, Devas and so on.

It's for the most not seek as a careful and compassionate order of the Buddha, to forbid his monks to show any sign of respect toward householde as a formal means and why it is so extremely destructive for many, when a Naga bows down, out of lacking wisdom is best shown in a tiny story called Der "Stolze Käfer im Kuhmist"-Segen - The "Proud beetle in the cowdung"-Blessing .

The same holds when leaders bow down to their fellows, parents to children an teacher to their students. No matter how "justified" in regard of personal things, it's crashing down whole sociaties.

How compassionate are you, if not working on being worthy of your position and give others perfect object of proper devotion?

Pets don't act out of wisdom and compassion and their masters likewise. It's simply driven by graving for sensuality and desire for being, no matter how low as long as feeded with sensual pleasures in great amount.

So be aware. If bowing and giving into lower, you crash down those regarding you acts and follow them, and you deprive others of possible fields of merits for them, to be able to get out by labor.

And if you take the lable and estimate of inferior, let others belive you had gained the gift of carring a certain good lable, you are simply stealing from your parents, the king and the Gems.

So it should be clear for those not deprived of any sign of what is the impact for one and many if one rejects natural and costume authority and at the same time devotes himselve to serve the lower, giving treasures downward for poor own livelihood and desire for getting honored without really haven done own sacrifices, not having gained anything sublime at all, nor living a holly live even outwardly.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 06:00:20 AM by Johann »
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Offline Johann

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Re: Modern "hierarchy" and devotion - obstacles: āgati & agati
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2018, 07:29:26 AM »
Just one of those foolish elephants sample:

Bhikkhu Bodhi encouraging to not sacrify toward Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha, but to consider to devote the best fruits for Samsara...

https://vesak.buddhistglobalrelief.org

Simply stealing and simply destroying sociaties... another futhur ox, pig or cow... see next zuckerberg-post: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157656075829152&id=802419151&ref=content_filter for own security for future more human cow killing advocating...

Peoples are bound to their leaders and vici versa, through an element, the Buddha said.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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Plauderbox

 

Johann

September 14, 2018, 07:11:41 AM
Und was ist die Grundlage für das Aukommen (paccaya) von Saddhā? Dukkha ist die Grundlage für das Aufkommen von Vertrauen (Händen und Füßen). Viel Dukkha! um Khema zu werden.
 

Johann

September 14, 2018, 07:02:53 AM
Eine Person ohne Vertrauen, Saddhaa, so sagen die Weisen, ist wie jemand ohne Hände und ohne Füße.

Also besser heute "unperfekt" beginnen, Anstelle perfekt wiedermal weiter nirgendwo Zuflucht zu erlangen. "Da ist nichts Gutes, es sei den man tut es."
 

Johann

September 11, 2018, 02:42:47 PM
Nyom Roman.
 

Johann

September 10, 2018, 03:39:32 PM
Ein Besucher. Wie geht es den Katzen?
 

Johann

September 08, 2018, 01:28:03 AM
Meister Hanspeter
 

Johann

September 05, 2018, 08:34:31 AM
At Buddhas times, so in times of Ajahn Mun, Upāli was the great supporter of the Kassapa, now the "Upalis" just make their livelihoods with it. Sad but true: or "nor for sure?"
 

Johann

September 05, 2018, 08:31:06 AM
It's like with Metallica- Fans and their producer, or to put it into Buddhas words: Uposatha of the cowboys.
 

Johann

September 05, 2018, 08:27:52 AM
Today many trade an nurish on the reputation of forest or kammaṭṭhāna - monks, making their livelihood with it by giving books, while wasting away their own goodness and possibilities actually destruct their upanissaya to it.
 

Johann

September 01, 2018, 07:16:53 PM
mit gahaṭṭha den Tag abschließend und segenreichen (verdienstvollen puñña) Sonntag allen anregend.
 

Johann

September 01, 2018, 09:43:50 AM
Was immer Mönch/Lehrer im Westen/moderenen Welt weilt, ist entweder Außenseiter oder (möglich ist) Arahant. Denken Sie nach.
 

Johann

September 01, 2018, 09:41:14 AM
Suchen Sie die Theras in traditionellem Land. Die Mitglieder anderer Sekten/"Buddhisten/moderne, arroganz/dünkel gefangen, sind verloren!
 

Johann

September 01, 2018, 09:38:20 AM
Das ist so klärend... ohne, wie die Westlichen Lehrer, jemals in alte Kultur und Sprache eingetaucht zu sein, vermag man nicht mal Pali richtig übersetzen, scjreiben, dann erst Buddhavaca verstehen.
 

Johann

August 30, 2018, 03:39:04 PM
Be prepared to die! Pets -life in a rich country is nice, but you would not understand anything: paṭisandhi (Com., Mahavihara)
 

Johann

August 30, 2018, 01:38:39 PM
 

Johann

August 26, 2018, 10:06:36 PM
Verdienstreichen Vollmond-Uposatha Ausklang allen.
 

Johann

August 22, 2018, 06:04:12 AM
"No mercy" :) soweit Trübungen nicht hindern, Nyom Moritz und Mudita.
 

Moritz

August 22, 2018, 05:07:08 AM
Ich verabschiede mich. Viele Dinge zu ordnen. _/\_
 

Moritz

August 22, 2018, 04:50:41 AM
 _/\_
Gut zu hören, auch wenn sicher relativ.
Mögen Bhante genug Schonung finden. _/\_
 

Johann

August 22, 2018, 04:37:12 AM
Gegenüber dem "Sterben" gestern, "pumperlg'sund" auf Wienerisch. Sadhu der Nachfrage, Nyom Moritz.
 

Moritz

August 22, 2018, 04:10:10 AM
Vandami, Bhante _/\_
Wie geht es Ihnen körperlich?
 

Johann

August 17, 2018, 02:21:49 AM
Mein's oder nicht meines, (Gier) Liebe oder Hass... Da sind wenige, die Blumen im Wald stehen lassen und Insekten nicht töten, weder bleiben noch gehen, und alles geben aus Wohlwollen und Mitgefühl, Weisheit gewonnen, Geiz besiegt und Güte ohne zu vereinnahmen. Wie konnten andere diese je sehen,
 

Johann

August 13, 2018, 05:13:25 AM
Händler mögen es nicht sich für passendes Mudita hinzugeben, und würden nur in Lob über deren Handelsware sprechen. Warum Leute Lobenswertes nicht loben: apacayana eine er 12 Personen: "...ein Geschäftsmann, sich seiner Schuld zum Arbeiten für seinen Vorteil verschrieben."
 

Johann

August 11, 2018, 12:06:41 AM
Erfreuenden und klärenden Neumond-Uposatha, den Ehrw. Herren, Anhängern und Interessierten.
 

Johann

August 10, 2018, 08:31:57 PM
Sokh chomreoun Nyom. Möge sich Sukha zur Vollständigkeit mehren.
 

Moritz

August 10, 2018, 06:20:44 PM
Ich muss wieder an die Arbeit. Einen angenehmen Abend, Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

August 10, 2018, 05:25:27 PM
Nyom Moritz.

Nyom Mohan.
 

Moritz

August 10, 2018, 05:18:04 PM
Guten Abend, Bhante _/\_
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

August 05, 2018, 12:58:01 PM
Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann,

ich habe der Gruppe „ Anussavika“ beigetreten.

Dhamma Grüβe an Sie aus Sri Lanka!
 

Johann

July 31, 2018, 04:38:15 PM
Den Weg kennend, im Vertrauen jenen folgen ihn gehend, gegangen, sich dann ausschließlich um die Enihsltung des Weges kümmer, gelangt man nach oben und hinaus. So, in dieser Weise, ist "der Weh ist das Ziel zu verstehen.
 

Johann

July 31, 2018, 04:33:35 PM
Mögen alles stets vorrangig auf die Qualitäten von Handlungen und Hingaben, die Ursachen für Früchte achten und nicht wie dumme gewöhnliche Leute, Zeile fixieren und danach gfreifen, die Ursachen damit fehlen, nie zu Früchten kommend, falscher Mitteln für Wirkung bedient.

Mudita
 

Johann

July 28, 2018, 07:38:00 AM
on how the blessed hobby, the liberating anime, the sublime gotchi decays for one and at a certain point for all: Dhamma-Gotchi and only fake last for some times lasting till also the mythos decays.
 

Johann

July 26, 2018, 01:50:45 PM
Morgen, Vollmond vor dem Vassa seiend, mag jener, der nicht zu sehr verstrickt in Fehlinvestitionen, die Gelegenheit für Lösung von Verstrickungen zu nützen vermögen.
 

Johann

July 26, 2018, 01:50:20 PM
Morgen, Vollmond vor dem Vassa seiend, mag jener, der nicht zu sehr verstrickt in Fehlinvestitionen, die Gelegenheit für Lösung von Verstrickungen zu nützen vermögen.
 

Roman

July 22, 2018, 08:01:16 PM
Danke für die Infos
und eine friedliche Nacht
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 06:27:44 PM
Atma, zieht sich nun zurück, wieder spät geworden, Nyom. Ruhe Freude und Geduld beim ungestörten Erkunden und Gelegenheiten, Gegeben-heiten, nutzen.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:13:38 PM
Atma wird das Gespräch nun versuchen in Passendes Thema im Forum zu kopieren.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:12:06 PM
In Sorge Unmut ob der Situation, gänzlich anders Vorgestellt,  zu mehren, hatte Johann nicht nach Marcel gefragt. Doch hätte er, würde er er erwähnen, wenn da dringliches und triftige Sorge um Marcel wäre. Gute Übung und Lehre, alles in allem, für viele, wenn danach ausgerichtet. Also einfach
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:06:12 PM
Bhante Indannano, Johann angerufen habend, kurz, vor Tagen, unterrichtet geworden das Johann am Weg in die Hauptstadt sein, hatte sich sehr zurückhaltend und kurz gehalten. Wohl nicht mit den weltlichen Hindernissen all zu Erfreut und noch ungelößt.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:03:21 PM
Im Verwenden des Forums, überall, keine Sorge irgendwo was Falsch zu machen, ist es Stressfreier und Langlebiger, auch für andere, als Geschenk, Nyom Roman. Woimmer.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:00:55 PM
Nyom kam Nyom als "füherer Elternteil/Verwandter" betrachten. Hie etwas Technischer: ញោម "Nyom", ñoma - Ursprung bzw. Bedeutung
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:56:10 PM
Wenn Sie sich freimachen können, besuchen Sie ihn, und machen Sie Entdeckungsreise in unbekannter Welt, während ihm vielleich Weltliches abnehmen könnend.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:53:55 PM
mit Freude tun oder Geben mag, wo immer, ist vorallem für Roman glücksverheißend, neben Moraluscher Stange zum Glück für ihn haltend.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:51:42 PM
Mag er sicher Abstand von Unsicherm Gewinnen. Was immer Roman sich inspiriet fühlt, geschicktes, niemanden Verletzendes zu geben, zu tun, gar vielleicht mehr an jemand erhabener als "nur" eigener Bruder denkend,
 

Roman

July 22, 2018, 02:49:04 PM
  Und was bedeutet Nyom...Ich habe versucht zu übersetzen.  Jedoch weiß ich nicht ob der Bezug richtig ist
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:48:39 PM
Johann hat ihn schon länger nicht persönlich getroffen, ob in Buchstaben, am Ohr oder mit mehr Sinnen. Gestern war er wohl online hier. Denke er ist sehr vertieft in der Praxis und hat eigentlich wenig Interesse sich um Äußerses zu kümmern.
 

Roman

July 22, 2018, 02:46:46 PM
Beim lesen von den Beiträgen fällt es mir noch bißchen schwer alles zu verstehen...Ich frage mich gerade wer Atma ist..Und moritz bist du für die Internetseite zuständig?  
 

Roman

July 22, 2018, 02:43:49 PM
Hallo,

Ich lese viel hier und wollte mich mal erkundigen wie es mit Marcel so steht..Hatte letzte Woche mit ihm gesprochen und es geht ihm gut! Hatte Johann geschrieben wie ich helfen kann..
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:41:15 PM
Nyom Roman
 

Sophorn

July 20, 2018, 05:09:54 AM
Sadhu. Möge es ein verdienstvolller Tag sein!
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

July 20, 2018, 03:06:04 AM
Allen einen verdienstvollen Silatag, der letzte vor dem Antritt der Regenrückzugszeit.

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