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[Buddha]

Author Topic: Why beings take birth, even in most worse existences and circumstances?  (Read 2152 times)

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Online Johann

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Quote from: Nyom Charbel on DWE
Interesting idea. Why would souls target parents in places of war, poverty, famine, etc?  :shrug:

Since it is a matter that those giving you birth, what one "seeks" for, are not always, better seldom, really noble minded or have noble intentions, and to give not to much soil for deeds harmful for a long long time, my person will answer here and leave it to the Upanissaya and present effort of those seriously interested to gain better conditions, better birth, change of direction and arriving toward beyound.

So let my person ask Nyom Charbel why he took birth in the war zone of views, in an area devoid of Dhamma and in great famine on DWE?

It's desire for becoming, desire for sensuality, that being take birth. Once an existence is no more maintained, conditions have runned out, this desire seek for an object to land, and what ever may come it's way and even if showing just slight signs of the possibility for becoming, it will be taken on.

Since existance in a physical realm is a matter of form and beings dwelling there are holding on it eager and greedy, its not easy to appear spontanious but requires support, letting go from others, sometimes voluntary, mostly not and the more form is taken, the more harm ones becoming causes others.

As the Buddha said, althought outwardly conditions are caused by certain previous actions, its very insecure of which existence follows the previous, by a simile of a thrown stick, which lands sometimes on the top, sometimes on the back end, sometimes on the side. Ones becoming is not just a matter of ones own inclination, tendency and attachment, but also conditioned of what is avaliable, provided by others at a certain moment.

So why Nyom Charbel took birth on DWE? Because he had the desire for becoming and something to take birth was provided. Let my person use some words from DN1, which should, can be, understood best on a tantric way of imagination also for physical birth and is much more accurate in the finer material realm of internet:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

When the cosmos (of certain inclination/interest) is devolving, beings for the most part head toward the Radiant (brahmās). There they stay: mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, coursing through the air, established in beauty for a long stretch of time. Then there ultimately comes a time when, with the passing of a long stretch of time, this cosmos evolves. When the cosmos is evolving, an empty Brahmā palace appears (eg. alternative opening for a world of interests). Then a certain being—from the exhaustion of his life span or the exhaustion of his merit—falls from the company of the Radiant and re-arises in the empty Brahmā palace. And there he still stays mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, coursing through the air, established in beauty for a long stretch of time.

“After dwelling there alone for a long time, he experiences displeasure & agitation: ‘O, if only other beings would come to this world!’

“Then other beings, through the ending of their life span or the ending of their merit, fall from the company of the Radiant and reappear in the Brahmā palace, in the company of that being. And there they still stay mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, coursing through the air, established in beauty for a long stretch of time.

“Then the thought occurs to the being who reappeared first: ‘I am Brahmā, the Great Brahmā, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Sovereign Lord, the Maker, Creator, Chief, Appointer & Ruler, Father of All That Have Been & Shall Be.[9] These beings were created by me. Why is that? First the thought occurred to me, “O, if only other beings would come to this world!” And thus my direction of will brought these beings to this world.’ As for the beings who reappeared later, this thought occurs to them: ‘This is Brahmā… Father of All That Have Been & Shall Be. We were created by this Brahmā. Why is that? We saw that he appeared here before, while we appeared after.’ The being who reappeared first is of longer life span, more beautiful, & more influential, while the beings who reappeared later are of shorter life span, less beautiful, & less influential.

Craving brought you to become in this certain Brahma realm and its a matter of your inclinations, tendency or debt to become. Althought it is an existence in a war zone, without much food of Dhamma, you took place, used and attached to certain food, climate, people, dwelling, outwardly conditions allow you to dwell.

Like one would wonder why certain being nourish on certain food which they would expect as not pleasing, look at bugs, they are used to it and would hardly brought to other food or if desiring would lake of their conditions to gain it.

As the Buddha realistic stated:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"Through an element it is, monks, that beings flow together, meet together. Beings of low tastes flow together, meet together with them of low tastes. They of virtuous tastes flow together, meet together with them of virtuous tastes. So have they done in the past. So will they do in the future. So do they now in the present."

It's a matter of strong Upanissaya, strong condition causes, which birth and association is gain-able.
Look for Nyom Binocalr for example, althought she desires for a lesser authority orientated existence, althought such exists, her inclination to certain patriarchal societies is to strong as that she could leave the rounds of birth there behind. There is still huge debt and no will to let go of what binds.

Only if one penetrates to the insight of the fact that the six sense and it's objects are not real, having firm confidence into the Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha, one is no more capable to take birth in a very low materialistic sphere since his/her inclination toward the sense is no more strong, no more strong, there is no more looking for gain that requires other much pain and being of less demand and open to generosity and goodness of others, no more willing to trade with pain on such a level, appearance only in good human conditions with all comfort or Deva Existence will be gained for the last seven at most, existences.

As for those who have gained the stream, to maintain existance in low worlds, within a low society, is impossible since they world no more go into this harmful usual trades.

Void of bacis virtue and generosity, by condition, such places are the dwellings of Asuras, Hungry ghosts and lower beings, awareness, and feed together and interdependent on each other, leaded by a certain Brahma, selling certain food as "this is real" and the inhabitants belive it, nourishing on it, celebrate it...

Only seldom it happens that one gets touched by a reminder or by understanding that there is a way out of repeated existances. Why do you think that one is so touched and willing to help children in war zones? Now gained an existence of similar kind actually?

One who, by touch with the Gems gains faith, seeing or imaging his/her situation, althought having not the capacity to change his food, his association, gives eager into Upanissayapaccaya, strong causes for conditions based on what the Buddha taught to be basic ways of making merits.

But since such realms are void of vision of escape, right advices and admirable friends, void of support into the right direction, having grasped the Dhamma totaly wrong, they common sacrifice instead upwardly, downwardly, instead of worshipping and honor the sublime, they honor pets and sensuality, instead of letting go, they are after gain, and in their wandering on, they bind and pull each other down.

And because of this, althought the giving birth in what ever lower realm is a great sacrifice, the gratitude that one ows toward one worldy Brahma, beginning by ones birth givers, is not a little that large as toward those only seldom met:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"Bhikkhus, these three persons have done much for a person. Which three? Bhikkhus, the person through whom this person takes refuge in the Enlightenment, in the Teaching and the Community of bhikkhus.

"Bhikkhus, the person through whom this person knows as it really is, this is unpleasant, this is the arising of unpleasantness, this is the cessation of unpleasantness and this is the path leading to the cessation of unpleasantness.

"Again, bhikkhus, the person through whom this person destroys desires, releases the mind and released through wisdom, here and now abides having realized. Bhikkhus, these three persons have done much to this person.

"Bhikkhus, it is not possible that these three persons could be thoroughly repaid with gratitude, by this person revering him, attending on him, clasping hands towards him and honouring him with robes, morsel food, dwellings and medicinal requisites."

One having arrived on the level of integrity does not waste his previous time for others than to serve eager his own duties toward people of real goodness toward him/here and to work his way out, as long as there is still work to do.

At least, one seeing Samsara as it is, does neither wants parents to make either harm to others for one, nor harm themselves by it, by unvirtuose actions, nor does he/she like to feed on others pain. And not to imagine of what demerits beings accumulate by hurting real benefactor caught in foolish self-esteem and conceit, grasping of what is not grasp-able.

So take care to accumulate the right inclination, tendency and conditions, starting by wise or faithfull leaded choices, first of all in regard of friends, association and circumstances where you ever be open to choose. Chances are not lasting and doors into other direction given by the goodness of the Buddha, the Gems, are seldom and disapear very fast from the world of common beings not easy ever to met.

And don't forget, beings, even born in a war zone, according to their past and present choices, can actually be much more blessend as if growing up and never leaving palaces. As the Buddha said, those who have accumulated much wealth are for the most the most worse and unblessed in their actions paving there highway to hell. Waisting away their merits in dedicating in for low and lower.

Anumodana!
« Last Edit: June 08, 2018, 07:36:08 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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A cat-mind seeks birth under pets keeper, althought it will face to be castrated, it's believed security for desired food that keeps it longing for. The pig and the cow likewise. As soon beings are able to be domesticated, they grasp after their user and future slayers. Like the sheeps vote for their later sacrificing. Pets and their owner run in this wheel, one time a lord, thousands of times a chicken.

Who ever longs for gifts which are not pure is destinated to gain the results for grasping the impure. Seldom is it that one takes the offer of pure giving, gain even birth under real Brahmas up in giving and not sharing becoming for their impure and foolish intentions, their gain and selfish advantages.

Now you have to think about your foolish desires. Not only for becoming, of which is still necessary, but why you seek after food that is contained in the left behind after distinguishing. Yoging after dog, cow and cat-duty practice and learn nothing other from your imperfect parents as to sacrifice on give into the low, so to gain you own pets later.

Althought it's more then praiseworthy to try to bend your foolish parents to a better, it's not sure that they have and will develope the conditions for it, and as many times told, every duty becomes void from the moment you strive for higher.

So in every case, short or long distance, as long as your tendencies are toward lower and equal, no, absolutly no, gain upward can be expected.

It's good therefore, to leave the leftover food, the nourishment of animals and low beings behind for those desire for it, and sacrifice the best fruits upwardly.

And as only those after more refine food with less demands would seek after birth in your spheres, no need to worry that you need to go out for kills for being who become your particular or all road fellows.

Once having stepped into the stream, no being which is not directed and capable upwardly, will take and make use of your pure offer.

In this sphere gifts are always twofold purified.

Take care of what you have left so that it will not become a wrong investment like beings are usually inclined to.

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"Bhikkhus, these three persons are evident in the world. What three? Bhikkhus, there is a person that should not be associated, there is one that should be associated, and there is another that should be honoured and revered and associated.

"Bhikkhus, who is the person that should not be associated? Bhikkhus, a certain person is below par in virtues, concentration and wisdom. Such should not be associated unless out of sympathy and compassion.

"Bhikkhus, who is the person that should be associated? Bhikkhus, a certain person is par in virtues, concentration and wisdom. Such should be associated. What is the reason? Those par in virtues converse on virtues, those par in concentration converse on concentration and those par in wisdom converse on wisdom. For them it becomes a pleasant abiding, therefore they should be associated.

"Bhikkhus, who is the person that should be honoured, revered and associated? Bhikkhus, a certain person is much above in virtues, concentration and wisdom. Such should be honoured, revered and associated. What is the reason? 'I will complete virtues not yet completed, and will wisely assist my completed virtues. I will complete my concentration not yet completed and I will wisely assist my completed concentration. I will complete my wisdom not yet completed and I will wisely assist my completed wisdom. Therefore, bhikkhus, such persons should be honoured, revered and associated. Bhikkhus, these three persons are evident in the world."

"Associating with someone low
is deterioration,
Associating an equal
there's no deterioration
Therefore bend down to a superior,
It is quick growth."

May this sacrifice not only touch those who are destinated for pets and pets owner lifes, but formost those capable to develope Saddha and those with Saddha to make it more firm.

Atmas mother used to use the proverb "that is like perls toward the sows". If touched on conceit by such, this gift might be not grasp-able for you, since upwardly leading dedicated and not for feeling comfortable and secure where you are for now, possible, free of wise or faithfull choices.

Willing to leave your homes in this world?

That's the reason why being take birth even on the most worse places, conditions and gain their parents which they grasped for.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Online gus

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Okasa,

I would like to know how you could gain such a good Saddha, being born as a Westerner. Many Westerners we have seen (except a few especially of Germany)doesn't seem to have enough Faith. Were you raised in a Buddhist family or such a background?

Vandami.

Online Johann

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Who knows... where ancestors, even return and go. ...
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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Why beings take birth in the most excellent existences and circumstances?
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2018, 12:57:09 PM »

Aramika   *

Ein oder mehrer Beiträge wurden hier im Thema abgeschnitten und damit in neues Thema "Why beings take birth in the most excellent existences and circumstances? " eröffnet, dem angehäng.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Johann

October 12, 2018, 04:13:16 PM
Good to see Nyom Norum.
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 10:38:10 AM
Maybe of support for lasting satifaction: Seeds of Becoming .
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 06:57:38 AM
When ever love arises, dislike will be it's end. Who ever seeks out for friends, will get his enemy. Why? Because not willing to leave home. May wanderer gus find the way to never return. Mudita

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:58 AM
Vandami.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:22 AM
Nevertheless my courage of active participation  has been fallen down. Anyway I hope to come time to time.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam khamata me bhante.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:37:11 AM
Okasa bhante,

I didn't accepted Dymitros invitation to start a Theravada forum, because I thought this forum is pure Theravada. Now I regret about it, yet think this forum is comparatively good.  I learnt many valuable things from you and grateful to you. Nevertheless my courage of active partici
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 02:20:29 AM
What ever one searches for, that he/she will find. Less are those seeing the nature of combined thing, leaving home and go beyond Maras domain.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:45:18 PM
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:39:12 PM
When one is born in outer regions ... your island has drifted away.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:30:00 PM
macchariya, a boarder hard to cross to the middle way, abounding home, sakayaditthi, doubt and rituals.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:33:02 PM
However much one say, West is West, East is East.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 02:28:29 PM
Where ever there is east, there is west. And vici versa. Where ever there is nama, there is rupa. Where ever one seeks for a home, there he will suffer.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:03:31 PM
West is West

gus

October 06, 2018, 09:56:42 AM
belief of kamma, gratitude, independence, honesty, devotion : These are hard to find in people
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:49:14 AM
Again, a latin proverb mit be useful: Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi , patisota is always harmful if not just one own defilements or having a proper stand to help. Sota is the virtue required to resist in borderlands.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:41:52 AM
If in a borderland it's better to simply serve and support the Sangha. It's not smart to seek for other householders to nurish on traced imperfections of something required to uphold, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 04:54:48 AM
Okasa, happy to hear such things reagarding kamma. Many monks I have met don't directly speak about kamma because they have been tired after practicing some years and now bit relaxed.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:17:26 AM
Such can be total kusala and total akusala or simply defuse. Set your mind right and be mindful, that nothing will be of harm for yourself and others.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:15:27 AM
There is nothing not permitted. Merits or demerits are the actors responsibility. One is full in charge of ones action in this Domain here, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 03:50:00 AM
Bhante, is it permitted to ask questions or post things on behalf of other/future people ?

gus

October 05, 2018, 09:19:32 AM
We have been advised like this:
"No matter however much monks reject you,
Never leave the place."
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 09:09:37 AM
It's good when wanderer gus takes a rest, turns to a lonly place, enjoys the merits done and find a good place for his mind and fixes possible open wholes when clear where he likes to go some hours later.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 08:59:03 AM
Wanderer Gus knows how foolish this statement is. That is not the way to get out of a hole.

gus

October 05, 2018, 08:42:59 AM
okasa,
falling down from a status is suffering.
So, if I could stay in the hell-being status from the beginning, then no suffering.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:33:20 AM
From a state of a young Bhikkhu equal tradition...to householder... ...asura (now) on the border to animal, peta, hell-state. It can go quick if not having firm nissaya.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:29:27 AM
Aniccam vatta samsara...

gus

October 05, 2018, 06:56:28 AM
Evolution:
Bhante subhuti =>
Upasaka gus =>
Deva gus =>
Asura gus.

In the future:
Asura gus =>
Peta gus =>
Animal gus =>
Hell-being gus ???

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:51:42 AM
Okasa, I think bhante thinks me as a patriot because of some content of my posts. But it is not.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 05:41:33 AM
What ever one likes to, not touched like the moon, does not mean to praise what is blameworthy and vici-versa and to have metta not to let people run into hell if ways can be pointed out. Yet other choices at least are their. Be quick, your island drifts away!

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:34:15 AM
Okasa,
As long as I don't do exactly what you say, I think I'll not be able to make you happy or satisfied.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 02:12:55 PM
If thinking that this is for sure, if delighting in believing that connected things are a refuge and give space to rest: one may do so. Ones own choice. When ever one stops to nurish inwardly, ouwardly path and fruits die. Good as well as bad.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:28:51 AM
If bhante didn't let the weak person to live in avatar/deva mode, then he will lose both openness and connection. Up to now I have secured at least the connection.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:22:24 AM
Yet I appreciate and pay vandana for your care and advice on openness.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:19:56 AM
Please forgive me  bhante if I have made you tired. I don't like to accumulate akusala by making a monk tired in expecting a naughty chicken to be a good duck.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam Khamtu me bhante!
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:07:06 AM
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:01:00 AM
Differnt asked "why is Bhante not happy, dwell not in outwardly seeming being not touched?" Because it would not only confirm and show sign of aggreement of unwise acts, but also very incompassionate and cruel. Also place for suspecting corrupt ways and invite others to follow the comfortable dwelli
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:54:12 AM
No one is able to make my person angry, which does not mean that he would not appear angry so to possible prevent from doing what is not conductive for liberation, even lead in lower states. Nothing to worry, but also no invitation to test it foolish since it could hurt one self and others.

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:46:39 AM
Okasa bhante, Isn't there at least single way to stay anonymous without making you angry?
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:33:12 AM
corr: "it's, the domain of the Noble Ones, is nobody's personal domain" there are no wards around fields for merits and no tickets to pay
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:29:31 AM
What ever Deva gus feels inspired. It's oneones personal domain and all giving is good in the distance of the brigh cool moon. One should not fear, should not be shy to do what is good and praised by the wise but be quick!

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:21:39 AM
Bhante, is that mean you don't like me to talk about higher subjects and like to talk about basics only?
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:02:12 AM
It would be more than good if teaching others a lot on the topic vandami (paying respect) and khamatu (asking for forgiviness) since unknown and not practiced here around this field of merits in compassion to former relatives, Deva gus.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:55:38 AM
...total no problem to dwell and lay down in the cool shadow to heal at all and no need to ask for pardon when intended for progressing and to get fit for the battles so hard to win.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:52:39 AM
But they would not feed them in ways which might look as nurishing relations for wordly sake directly, for people not understanding would think "look, he is herding, carry for his cattle, he wasts the gift of the land, the heritage of the Gems for his becoming and own gain. Understood? Total no prob
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:45:29 AM
Never would people of integrity send away pets, petas or sick, for they are not able to change for now but possible can gain of what they need to change.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:42:28 AM
If, just to think about, one lives deliberatly with sign showing a rejection of firm trust in kamma, one lives in nurishing the danger of falling into grave wrong views and give ways that others follow what is improper to do. Just to reflect. How ever wishing to do.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:36:03 AM
What ever one does, holds as refuge or abounds, either good or bad refuge, one does for one self. Ones own choices, ones own fruits, ones own limitations, hindrences.

gus

October 04, 2018, 09:28:15 AM
Khamatu me bhante!
My previous  post was this.
"Please forgive me and give birth to kindness ao as to let me live here anonymous "
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:21:35 AM
... doing so based on gratitude without just trading in giving, or out of duty in a relation one resits, one is able to get not only to the borders, but into Noble ones domain.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:19:27 AM
And to put much into such sacrifies of giving ones honor, ones dwelling, ones source of food (family), one possession (even intelectual), the Dhamma one has made his own

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