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[Buddha]

Author Topic: [Q&A] Wholesale dismissal of Non-Ariya traditions result in Ariyupavadantarya?  (Read 1468 times)

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Offline Johann

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Quote from: Upasaka Ruslan
Can a wholesale dismissal of Non-Theravada traditions result in Ariyupavadantaraya?

A question for those well-familiar with non-Theravada traditions and texts, as titled:
Can a wholesale dismissal of Non-Theravada traditions such as Zen or Mahayana result in Ariyupavadantaraya*?

*offense of reviling a Noble person

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

 _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community _/\_ , my person tries to answer this question. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasakas, Upasikas, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,



Nyom Ruslan ,

Antarya means danger, blockade, obstacle.

my person has renamed the original question, so that it fits also for holder of a view "I am a Theravadin".

First of all: it is said by the Liberal, known by the wise, that a person of no integrity (eg. worldling, non-Araiya) is incapable to know of who is a person of integrity.

Secound, what ever Tradition (outwardly) serious practice the Eightfold path for right liberation from suffering, for own and all other welfare, can be called an Ariya-Tradition, will be not different by means and appearing to the Buddhas direct traceable heritage.

Third, by nature of having gained right view, it's impossible for a Noble One to define himself by means of groups, nations, lables aside of such as Noble One by action. Who ever discriminates right and wrong by outwardly manners aside of deeds, reviles not in manner of conduct but by nation, geography, age, race, outwardly family... acts on behave of such, sacrifices in that ways downwardly, such a person has not gained right view. So who ever, not just using it as a synonym for conduct according to the path and aim, defines himself as Theravadin, Zen... German, Russian, Amerikan, acts on behave of this selfdefinition, such person has not gained the stream.

Who ever, having gained the stream, criticizes traditions of worldlings, conduct outside the Eightfold path, aspirations aside of putting an end of suffering for oneself at first place, and so for the benefit of all others, does such rightly.

Who ever criticizes, after having investigated proper, of what is worthy to criticize, right, based on right resolve, such causes heavenly fruits. For doing the opposite, blame the right, praise the wrong, such is the cause of downfall, hell.

And, to think about, there is the case where a person, having gained path in previous life, reapears on places, in societies void of the Gems, the Sangha the Dhamma. He might associate with groups actually not in the Ariya Traditions to the extend of Dana, Sila, Samadhi, but not in regard of panna.

If such a person, independent of a teacher (because a stream enter, Ariya by "by Birth", because of his past deeds) might come in contact with the Liberated Ones tradition, good Dhamma, peoples of integrity, he/she would suddenly leave his outward bounds in not noble relations.

As for those many householder, worldly conducts and traditions, traders of Juwels, parents and unrightouse grasped heritage of the Buddha, who desire, whether in robes of not, for staying in Samsara, engage in various ways unskilled, do not know of what is first and what comes after, and think in manners of equality and rights, this worthless beings are of cause found in all Mohayanas, all pabbajito reviler traditions, householder traditions, with householders as their leaders, with no respect of Samanas, this people, headed by devadatta, by Mara, or by Baka, are also found in certain Mohanikaya Traditions, the groups of the foolish mass.

Those who do not know of what Elders means, have not abound discrimination of worldling, those lost Brahmans, althought dealing with the heritage of the Noble Ones, are lost equal Mohayanas.

And what does Mahayana means in the tradition of the Noble Ones? Having gained "Buddhanature" a person of integrity is bound to practice the Ariya Path for the right ending of Stress, and gains within max 7 further existences highest liberation.

Such person really does neither seek or praise those calling them selfes Vajrayanas, those cheating householders with no virtue, no conduct and leading the mass to downfall.

It's by nature, that a Boddhisatta never comes in touch with the eightfold path, the aim, the three Gems on the surface of jnowing and seeing.

That is why one should not associate with householders (eg. those holding to the six sense at least) and those of not respect for outwardly, not to speak inwardly Went-forth.

Coming in touch, with the Noble Ones, being a child of the other family, one has no doubt and feels suddenly reminded.

And since some householder and pets devoted told that just Jhana is a critera of the Noble ones, such is not right. Even Devadatta gained certsin Jhanas, even certain Zen, Forest... what ever leades and masters, gained and teach such, yet still often very missleading subjects, heading people into spheres where Dhamma can be not gained for a long, long time. By ending of dependend bliss, they fall into the hell.

So this is why the elders do not teach Jhana to those not aware of right view, to householders, to those rejecting right view even on a pre-path level: reviler of what is right, praiser of what is wrong, but would again and again teach right view to householder those not having gone forth, eighter lay or in robes. For it's his gift for purification of ones mind.

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"And how is one made pure in three ways by mental action? There is the case where a certain person is not covetous. He does not covet the belongings of others, thinking, 'O, that what belongs to others would be mine!' He bears no ill will and is not corrupt in the resolves of his heart. [He thinks,] 'May these beings be free from animosity, free from oppression, free from trouble, and may they look after themselves with ease!' He has right view and is not warped in the way he sees things: 'There is what is given, what is offered, what is sacrificed. There are fruits & results of good & bad actions. There is this world & the next world. There is mother & father. There are spontaneously reborn beings; there are brahmans & contemplatives who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is how one is made pure in three ways by mental action.

If certain doubt arises, may one feel encouraged to ask further and in detail.

18. Wrong practice of buddha-dhamma   



The Buddha, here representing the true teaching, is being attacked by three monks and one laymen. The fact that there is only one layman attacking the teachings indicates that many monks, once having been ordained in the order, continue to follow false path and are attached to ceremony. They are indifferent to the true teachings and prefer the Wheel of Wandering-on to Nibbāna.

(Monks, as they are more conspicuous than layman and because they are supposed to be devoting their lives to the Three Gems, and because it is known that they have many precepts to keep pure, can attack the Dhamma by misconduct in a more violent way than is possible for laypeople)

(Note that this Dhamma is said to be contributedby one of the most worthless "monks", a slave-leader, Buddhadassa! to understand the Dangers, Antarya. Yet this it-self if Dhamma and the meanig understood even if contributed to known revilers and Dhamma-Danger praiser)

May Vandami become soon a daily practice for many, may no one falls in associatiin with fools now not secure.

It's by an Element that being gather together, "are" bond to each other.

Anumodana! May all being be able to rejoice with good deeds done.

May person will now leave the Dhamma-womb and go for alms.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 02:19:22 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

The Four Great References

7. And there the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Now, bhikkhus, I shall make known to you the four great references. [37] Listen and pay heed to my words." And those bhikkhus answered, saying:

"So be it, Lord."

8-11. Then the Blessed One said: "In this fashion, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu might speak: 'Face to face with the Blessed One, brethren, I have heard and learned thus: This is the Dhamma and the Discipline, the Master's Dispensation'; or: 'In an abode of such and such a name lives a community with elders and a chief. Face to face with that community, I have heard and learned thus: This is the Dhamma and the Discipline, the Master's Dispensation'; or: 'In an abode of such and such a name live several bhikkhus who are elders, who are learned, who have accomplished their course, who are preservers of the Dhamma, the Discipline, and the Summaries. Face to face with those elders, I have heard and learned thus: This is the Dhamma and the Discipline, the Master's Dispensation'; or: 'In an abode of such and such a name lives a single bhikkhu who is an elder, who is learned, who has accomplished his course, who is a preserver of the Dhamma, the Discipline, and the Summaries. Face to face with that elder, I have heard and learned thus: This is the Dhamma and the Discipline, the Master's Dispensation.'

"In such a case, bhikkhus, the declaration of such a bhikkhu is neither to be received with approval nor with scorn. Without approval and without scorn, but carefully studying the sentences word by word, one should trace them in the Discourses and verify them by the Discipline. If they are neither traceable in the Discourses nor verifiable by the Discipline, one must conclude thus: 'Certainly, this is not the Blessed One's utterance; this has been misunderstood by that bhikkhu — or by that community, or by those elders, or by that elder.' In that way, bhikkhus, you should reject it. But if the sentences concerned are traceable in the Discourses and verifiable by the Discipline, then one must conclude thus: 'Certainly, this is the Blessed One's utterance; this has been well understood by that bhikkhu — or by that community, or by those elders, or by that elder.' And in that way, bhikkhus, you may accept it on the first, second, third, or fourth reference. These, bhikkhus, are the four great references for you to preserve."
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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And a short story in this relation, Nyom (former relative/father) Ruslan .

At least this first so impressed person, out of total overestmation and wrong views thinking having gained right, actually disliked my person gravely, after being actually in search for gain and becoming.

A person who gives, even wealthy, just bottles of water, saying "there is no transgression in drinking just that" while sacrificing toward flags preaching ditthis of "A(bhi)dhamma".

Althought knowing so much, not beyond macchariya and identification, desire for it.

Upasaka Dhammavaro , also an ex-monk and hopfull no more drunken in householder approaches now, once said wisely: "Be careful! Certain monks know your mind, thought, intentions."

There is a world between remembering sayings and known by seeing. This world has to be abounded to see as it is.

Once in the bond of the Sangha, one is always "supernatural" in connection. As awarness had learned to investigate awarnness. Around all the time, protected, with no secrets possible to hide.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 06:46:53 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Johann

Today at 03:16:45 AM
A fruitful Sila-observance day for those obsering it today.
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 03:52:00 PM
Nyom Roman and Bhantes family will be surely happy and good that Bhante does not need to get much involved directly.
 

Cheav Villa

November 14, 2018, 03:40:07 PM
Kuna Prah Ang
 _/\_
The Kathina will be holding on Sat 17 and Sun 18. I kuna will meet both of Bhante Sreng and Bhante Khemearakuma to imform all about this, incl sharing much pictures.
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 03:14:40 PM
Good if Nyom could explain Bhante Sreng how to use the online monastery. Sadhu! A topic on Bhante Khemakumaras going forth can be found here . Good also if informing and share date of Kathina at Wat Ayom, and much pictures to share
 

Cheav Villa

November 14, 2018, 02:55:43 PM
Kuna Prah Ang,
As I kuna knowing that Prah Ang Khemareakuma
was staying in Ork Yum Pagoda.
This Saturday or Sunday I kuna would join the Kathin there, but now I kuna will send some about Bhante Khemareakuma via FB Prah Ang Sreng.
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 02:37:46 PM
Nyom Roman, Nyom Villa asked if she can help in something in regard of Bhante. Best when you talk in a new topic.
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 02:36:12 PM
Nyom Roman , Bhantes twin brother and his family asked how Bhante is. They miss him much and Bhante praisworthy focus on practice.
 

Cheav Villa

November 14, 2018, 02:27:20 PM
ព្រះអង្គ  _/\_
តើខ្ញុំកូណានឹងអាចជួយអ្វីខ្លះអ្វីអំពីព្រះអង្គ​ Khemareakuma?
 

Cheav Villa

November 14, 2018, 02:15:11 PM
ជំរាបសួរលោក​ Moritz
_/\_
 

Cheav Villa

November 14, 2018, 02:12:59 PM
កូណាមិនបានដឹងទេ ព្រះអង្គ​
 

Moritz

November 14, 2018, 02:12:36 PM
ជំរាបសួរ Cheav Villa _/\_
 

Moritz

November 14, 2018, 02:12:29 PM
Auf Wiedersehen, Roman. Ich schreibe dir noch zurück per E-Mail und mache hier am besten noch ein Thema auf für später.

_/\_
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 02:03:05 PM
Does Nyom Villa know Bhante Khemakumaras twin brother?
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 02:01:43 PM
Eine Reihe der neuen Mitglieder hier, Nyom Villa, Puthy... sind öfter in Kontakt und in den Klöstern Ayum und in Phnom Penh. Mag sein, daß jemand von den Upasikas kürzlich Kontakt hatte. Gut auch wenn Nyom guten Kontakt zu anderen Laien vor Ort Pflegt, hallo sagt...
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 02:01:26 PM
ich danke ihnen Johann und Motiz für die informationen und unterstützung.
 ich muss  jetzt weiter. ich  wünsche allen einen friedevolle tag
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 01:46:29 PM
Ein paar generelle und erklärende Worte zum Thema Unterstützen hier: If willing to help the child, the "poor" the new, give to it's master, father!
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 01:41:23 PM
Atma denkt, kann aber auch sein, daß er anderwo lernt. Einweiser ist die Person, die einen neuen Mönch einweist, und kommt einem Vater gleich. Bhante Indannano ist Bhantes Einweiser (Upajjhāya). (Hier übrigens das Thema zu "Unte
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 01:36:35 PM
Und wie geht es Ihnen Johann? wo sind sie untergebracht?
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 01:34:00 PM
Bhante Khemakumara ist jetzt in Takeo bei Bhante Indannanno soweit ich mitbekommen habe ja? welche bedeutung hat ein Einweiser?
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 01:31:47 PM
Siehe Mountain kuti-sāmaggī weekend, Thmo Duk, end of last Rain-month 2018. . Bhante ist, wenn im Wat (Kloster) Ayum , sicher gut umsorgt von allen Seiten.
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 01:27:18 PM
Seit seinem Mitziehen mit seinem Einweiser soweit nichts gehört und wird, denkt Atma, vertieft in der Praxis sein. Nächste Woche kommt Bhante Indannano mit seinen Schülern. Vielleicht kommt Bhante Khemakumara auch mit.
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 01:22:13 PM
wie geht es Khemakumara..dass ist sehr oft in meinen gedanken..ihn nicht direkt fragen zu können dass ist schwierig..nicht auf dem aktuellen zu sein..denke das liegt auch daran dass mich meine famile oft fragt..roman wie gehts marcel
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 01:16:20 PM
Ja Johann das werde ich meiner familie vorschlagen!
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 01:10:27 PM
Nyom Roman kann jederzeit seine Familie hier her einladen. Da mögen alle mehr Bezug zu dem Streben bekommen und können stets auch Fragen stellen.
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 01:06:07 PM
Da wart ein Forum nur für Nichtklösterliche eingerichtet, zu dem man mit gewisser Mitgliedschaft zugang hat. Mag sicher ein passender Rahmen sein für solches, um da entspannend beizutragen, oder Aramikabereich (Oberforum).
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 01:05:53 PM
Khemakumara und nicht marcel die person die sich an vergangenen haftet
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 01:04:12 PM
ehrwürdiger Johann

ja ich vermisse meinen bruder! ich berichte meiner familie von den Ereignissen..Dass is einwenig schwer für mich da familie immer über Marcel spricht und die erinnerungen hochholen wie es mal war! ich versuche ihnen auch zu erklären wie sie es mir versucht haben zu verdeutl
 

Moritz

November 14, 2018, 01:00:07 PM
Ich habe deine Mail gelesen, Roman, und gerade nach einem Thema/Unterforum hier gesucht, was genau für solche Fragen gedacht war: zu erfragen/besprechen/organisieren, was man materiell beisteuern/unterstützen kann.
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 12:57:01 PM
hallo moritz und johann
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 12:52:02 PM
Nyom Roman vermißt seinen Bruder sehr und kommt aus den Abschiedthemen ganz und gar nicht raus.
 

Moritz

November 14, 2018, 12:47:10 PM
Vandami Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 12:46:33 PM
Werte Herren
 

Moritz

November 14, 2018, 12:43:40 PM
Hallo Roman! _/\_
 

Johann

November 11, 2018, 01:00:38 AM
Sadhu Nyom. "May the Dhamma of the Buddha, and those following, be all beings refuge for a blessed life and beyond."
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 11, 2018, 12:31:09 AM
May the Dhamma be the greatest blessing in our lives today!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 11, 2018, 12:30:17 AM
Möge heute das Dhamma der größte Segen in unserem Leben sein!
 

Johann

November 10, 2018, 03:31:36 AM
Sadhu! "May all given the right causes so that they experiance peace, prospery, friendships in their worlds today."
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 10, 2018, 02:42:15 AM
Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann,
hier gibt es einen Fehler. Nicht Mӧge, sondern Mӧgen.

Dhamma Grüβe an Sie aus Sri Lanka!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 10, 2018, 12:58:57 AM
May peace, prosperity, Friendship prevail throughout the word today!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 10, 2018, 12:58:26 AM
Mӧge heute Frieden, Wohlstand und Freundschaft auf der ganzen Welt herrschen!
 

Johann

November 08, 2018, 01:40:21 AM
May all those having not observed the new-moon Uposata yesterday take the chance of this day.
 

Johann

November 07, 2018, 01:52:42 AM
Sadhu! "May I, may all, give the causes, act in way, that I, that all, experiance a blissfull day."
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 07, 2018, 12:36:19 AM
May today be a blissful day!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 07, 2018, 12:35:13 AM
Mӧge der heutige Tag ein glückseliger Tag sein!
 

Cheav Villa

November 06, 2018, 02:57:08 PM
Sandhu!
 

Johann

November 06, 2018, 12:41:22 AM
Sadhu. "May I, may all, use this day to give themselves causes for long lasting happines."
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 06, 2018, 12:17:34 AM
May today be a meritful and meritorious day!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 06, 2018, 12:16:58 AM
Mӧge der heutige Tag ein verdienstvoller und verdienstlicher Tag sein!
 

Johann

November 05, 2018, 09:16:58 AM
Sadhu
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 05, 2018, 01:41:57 AM
May today be a day of insight!                                                                        

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