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[Buddha]

Author Topic: Trade with Dhamma, exchange "Dhamma-Dana"  (Read 407 times)

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Offline Johann

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Trade with Dhamma, exchange "Dhamma-Dana"
« on: September 10, 2018, 08:45:08 AM »
 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Venerable members of the Dangha,
Venerable fellows,  _/\_

Valued Upasaka, Upasika,
dear interested seekers,


As pointed out on many places here and there, again and again,  in many ways, how not only ugly it is to sell and trade Dhamma in exchange of what ever gain, how slight it is next thieving from the Gems, much more worse if seeing monks putting Dhamma for trade for their livelihood, their belly, to make a favor for whom ever, or to gain for wordly affairs, it's probably very needed to add that also things coming along as "Dhamma-Dana" and "for free" are often not far away from it.

Similar like most, nearly all "open-source" undertakings, and so on, such is often just a more tricky way of trade and catching costumes = making a living.

To understand who and how Dhamma should be given, the main points in regard of giving, explained by the Buddha, can be remembered, starting with "How knows kamma, would not eat before not all have got food" as a pillow.

As for one still in dependency of what ever society to get Dhamma, there are the five proper times for giving:

* for one coming/ariving
* for one going
* in times of lack "food"
* in times of sickness
* and special fruits should be given to the virtuous without limit of time.

Now it becomes certain clear that if certain communities provide, or focus even on providing Dhamma, for their material supporter, (e.g. monks serving the lay people) but at the same time being more then stingy and unmotivated to support their "Kind", other monks, novices, trainees or people in training, it is also clear that such Dhamma-Dana is actually nothing but corruption, trade, politic.

Putting unpure things under the lable of "pure" is posdible even more ugly than anything else.

Think on cases of how power is gained by means of charity. Western church, for example, is a sample of generosity for actually very low purposeand politics. Not needed to bring up the many cases in poor countries, or under refugees, where people are even pressured to join them to get food, or get deprived when not wearing the right color.

And there is a huge "Dhamma-Dana-industry" that deals with stories of Noble Ones and Arahats of their specific branch, making actually advertising with attainments of their kind, an act that is actually very close to the forth downfall precept for a monk.

So it's possible hard, especially for lay people, to get not caught be what ever improper and "homie"-like trade in Dhamma, take part on thieving and corruption, and one need to be really observant to get it right, remembering Ud. 6.2. not only by it's last stanzas.

One should not think that just thinking like thieve is not actually thieving it self, even if done in a "Robin Hood"-way and so it's good to prove in all aspects carefully to get not trapped by shine outwardly appearence.

As with all Dhamma and outwardly support, only the match of someone who has left the world, who has become independent for trade, only a Noble person is a secure place to place as real supportive admirable friend. It's not a matter of literary quality, amout of just knowledge or comfortable performance, layout and accessibility. Dhamma-Dana not in line with Dhamma, not really liberal, not purified minimum on one side is of less fruits.

And in regard of who and how Dhamma should be given by the Buddhas close desciples, by his monks, is possible best provided by the "like the moon"-Sutta, and sad but true that there is not easy to find any community who has not actually fallen into Sg13, doing lay people certain favors and has long given up to care of their family and that to what they actually have taking refuge, fist, devoted to missuse the effective and borrowed reputation to devote it downwardly rather to use it as means so that people still would have ways to step out:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"What do you think, Bhikkhus, what kind of Bhikkhu is giving teaching on Dhamma impurely, and what kind of Bhikkhu is giving teaching on Dhamma purely?"

"Venerable Sir, the techings are rooted in the Blessed One, leaded by the Blessed One, having the Blessed One as protector. It would be good if the Blessed One would make the meaning delightful clear. Learned by the Blessed One, the Bhikkhus will bear it in mind."

"Then, Bhikkhus, listen and pay close attention, I will speak."

"Yes, venerable Sir," the Bhikkhus replayed to the Blessed One. The Blessed One spoke thus:

"There is the case, Bhikkhus, that a Bhikkhu teaches the Dhamma, thinking: 'Oh, may they listen to the Dhamma from me. Having learned my Dhamma, may they be settled in believe in it. Having been settled in believe in it, may they show their settlement in believe," this is a kind of Bhikkhu, Bhikkhus, who is giving teaching on Dhamma impurely.

There is the case, Bhikkhus, that a Bhikkhu teaches the Dhamma, thinking: 'The Dhamma of the Blessed One is well taught, direct visible, timeless, inviting to come and see, appropriate, to be self-experianced by the wise. Oh, may they listen to the Dhamma from me. Having learned the Dhamma, may they understand. Having understood the Dhamma, may they practice accordingly.' So he teaches the Dhamma because of the excellence nature of the Dhamma; he teaches the Dhamma out of compassion and kindness, out of pity. This is a kind of Bhikkhu, Bhikkhus, who is giving teaching on Dhamma purely.

Kassapa, Bhikkhus, teaches the Dhamma, thinking: 'The Dhamma of the Blessed One is well taught, direct visible, timeless, inviting to come and see, appropriate, to be self-experianced by the wise. Oh, may they listen to the Dhamma from me. Having learned the Dhamma, may they understand. Having understood the Dhamma, may they practice accordingly.' He teaches the Dhamma because of the excellence nature of the Dhamma; he teaches the Dhamma out of compassion and kindness, out of pity.

Bhikkhus, I advice you by the sample of Kassapa, or one who is similar to Kassapa's kind. Being adviced, you should practice in this way.

Aside of the usual improper priority in giving and care, it's the sign of a trader to do not praise others good deeds, lacking of sharing merits and Anumodana, aside his product and customers.
Of cause amacchariya is not present in such a person and it's therfore clear that such a person can not be someone who is even capable (and actually teach) jhāna, not to speak of path and fruit-attainment. As a worldling and trader he holds on his dwelling, family of supporter, gains, honor and simply takes Dhamma as a means to nurish "his" and "his kind".

May it be of benefical support for each individual in his seek for the path and may it help those who walk a not wise and actually destructive path for themselves and many, to come to mind before acts may close up all their avaliable good ways for a long time.

Anumodana!
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 10:07:50 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Johann

Today at 09:00:29 AM
Nyom Roman.
 

Johann

October 20, 2018, 02:52:14 AM
Atma leaves for alms round, Nyom Villa.
 

Johann

October 17, 2018, 06:01:23 PM
May all spend meritorious/good and higher last hours of this Sila-day.

Sokh chomreoun (may well being be developed [by everyone])
 

Johann

October 16, 2018, 03:15:10 PM
Nyom Roman.
 

Johann

October 12, 2018, 04:13:16 PM
Good to see Nyom Norum.
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 10:38:10 AM
Maybe of support for lasting satifaction: Seeds of Becoming .
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 06:57:38 AM
When ever love arises, dislike will be it's end. Who ever seeks out for friends, will get his enemy. Why? Because not willing to leave home. May wanderer gus find the way to never return. Mudita

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:58 AM
Vandami.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:22 AM
Nevertheless my courage of active participation  has been fallen down. Anyway I hope to come time to time.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam khamata me bhante.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:37:11 AM
Okasa bhante,

I didn't accepted Dymitros invitation to start a Theravada forum, because I thought this forum is pure Theravada. Now I regret about it, yet think this forum is comparatively good.  I learnt many valuable things from you and grateful to you. Nevertheless my courage of active partici
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 02:20:29 AM
What ever one searches for, that he/she will find. Less are those seeing the nature of combined thing, leaving home and go beyond Maras domain.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:45:18 PM
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:39:12 PM
When one is born in outer regions ... your island has drifted away.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:30:00 PM
macchariya, a boarder hard to cross to the middle way, abounding home, sakayaditthi, doubt and rituals.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:33:02 PM
However much one say, West is West, East is East.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 02:28:29 PM
Where ever there is east, there is west. And vici versa. Where ever there is nama, there is rupa. Where ever one seeks for a home, there he will suffer.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:03:31 PM
West is West

gus

October 06, 2018, 09:56:42 AM
belief of kamma, gratitude, independence, honesty, devotion : These are hard to find in people
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:49:14 AM
Again, a latin proverb mit be useful: Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi , patisota is always harmful if not just one own defilements or having a proper stand to help. Sota is the virtue required to resist in borderlands.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:41:52 AM
If in a borderland it's better to simply serve and support the Sangha. It's not smart to seek for other householders to nurish on traced imperfections of something required to uphold, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 04:54:48 AM
Okasa, happy to hear such things reagarding kamma. Many monks I have met don't directly speak about kamma because they have been tired after practicing some years and now bit relaxed.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:17:26 AM
Such can be total kusala and total akusala or simply defuse. Set your mind right and be mindful, that nothing will be of harm for yourself and others.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:15:27 AM
There is nothing not permitted. Merits or demerits are the actors responsibility. One is full in charge of ones action in this Domain here, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 03:50:00 AM
Bhante, is it permitted to ask questions or post things on behalf of other/future people ?

gus

October 05, 2018, 09:19:32 AM
We have been advised like this:
"No matter however much monks reject you,
Never leave the place."
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 09:09:37 AM
It's good when wanderer gus takes a rest, turns to a lonly place, enjoys the merits done and find a good place for his mind and fixes possible open wholes when clear where he likes to go some hours later.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 08:59:03 AM
Wanderer Gus knows how foolish this statement is. That is not the way to get out of a hole.

gus

October 05, 2018, 08:42:59 AM
okasa,
falling down from a status is suffering.
So, if I could stay in the hell-being status from the beginning, then no suffering.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:33:20 AM
From a state of a young Bhikkhu equal tradition...to householder... ...asura (now) on the border to animal, peta, hell-state. It can go quick if not having firm nissaya.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:29:27 AM
Aniccam vatta samsara...

gus

October 05, 2018, 06:56:28 AM
Evolution:
Bhante subhuti =>
Upasaka gus =>
Deva gus =>
Asura gus.

In the future:
Asura gus =>
Peta gus =>
Animal gus =>
Hell-being gus ???

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:51:42 AM
Okasa, I think bhante thinks me as a patriot because of some content of my posts. But it is not.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 05:41:33 AM
What ever one likes to, not touched like the moon, does not mean to praise what is blameworthy and vici-versa and to have metta not to let people run into hell if ways can be pointed out. Yet other choices at least are their. Be quick, your island drifts away!

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:34:15 AM
Okasa,
As long as I don't do exactly what you say, I think I'll not be able to make you happy or satisfied.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 02:12:55 PM
If thinking that this is for sure, if delighting in believing that connected things are a refuge and give space to rest: one may do so. Ones own choice. When ever one stops to nurish inwardly, ouwardly path and fruits die. Good as well as bad.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:28:51 AM
If bhante didn't let the weak person to live in avatar/deva mode, then he will lose both openness and connection. Up to now I have secured at least the connection.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:22:24 AM
Yet I appreciate and pay vandana for your care and advice on openness.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:19:56 AM
Please forgive me  bhante if I have made you tired. I don't like to accumulate akusala by making a monk tired in expecting a naughty chicken to be a good duck.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam Khamtu me bhante!
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:07:06 AM
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:01:00 AM
Differnt asked "why is Bhante not happy, dwell not in outwardly seeming being not touched?" Because it would not only confirm and show sign of aggreement of unwise acts, but also very incompassionate and cruel. Also place for suspecting corrupt ways and invite others to follow the comfortable dwelli
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:54:12 AM
No one is able to make my person angry, which does not mean that he would not appear angry so to possible prevent from doing what is not conductive for liberation, even lead in lower states. Nothing to worry, but also no invitation to test it foolish since it could hurt one self and others.

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:46:39 AM
Okasa bhante, Isn't there at least single way to stay anonymous without making you angry?
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:33:12 AM
corr: "it's, the domain of the Noble Ones, is nobody's personal domain" there are no wards around fields for merits and no tickets to pay
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:29:31 AM
What ever Deva gus feels inspired. It's oneones personal domain and all giving is good in the distance of the brigh cool moon. One should not fear, should not be shy to do what is good and praised by the wise but be quick!

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:21:39 AM
Bhante, is that mean you don't like me to talk about higher subjects and like to talk about basics only?
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:02:12 AM
It would be more than good if teaching others a lot on the topic vandami (paying respect) and khamatu (asking for forgiviness) since unknown and not practiced here around this field of merits in compassion to former relatives, Deva gus.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:55:38 AM
...total no problem to dwell and lay down in the cool shadow to heal at all and no need to ask for pardon when intended for progressing and to get fit for the battles so hard to win.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:52:39 AM
But they would not feed them in ways which might look as nurishing relations for wordly sake directly, for people not understanding would think "look, he is herding, carry for his cattle, he wasts the gift of the land, the heritage of the Gems for his becoming and own gain. Understood? Total no prob
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:45:29 AM
Never would people of integrity send away pets, petas or sick, for they are not able to change for now but possible can gain of what they need to change.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:42:28 AM
If, just to think about, one lives deliberatly with sign showing a rejection of firm trust in kamma, one lives in nurishing the danger of falling into grave wrong views and give ways that others follow what is improper to do. Just to reflect. How ever wishing to do.

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