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[Buddha]

Author Topic: Trade with Dhamma, exchange "Dhamma-Dana"  (Read 475 times)

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Offline Johann

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Trade with Dhamma, exchange "Dhamma-Dana"
« on: September 10, 2018, 08:45:08 AM »
 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Venerable members of the Dangha,
Venerable fellows,  _/\_

Valued Upasaka, Upasika,
dear interested seekers,


As pointed out on many places here and there, again and again,  in many ways, how not only ugly it is to sell and trade Dhamma in exchange of what ever gain, how slight it is next thieving from the Gems, much more worse if seeing monks putting Dhamma for trade for their livelihood, their belly, to make a favor for whom ever, or to gain for wordly affairs, it's probably very needed to add that also things coming along as "Dhamma-Dana" and "for free" are often not far away from it.

Similar like most, nearly all "open-source" undertakings, and so on, such is often just a more tricky way of trade and catching costumes = making a living.

To understand who and how Dhamma should be given, the main points in regard of giving, explained by the Buddha, can be remembered, starting with "How knows kamma, would not eat before not all have got food" as a pillow.

As for one still in dependency of what ever society to get Dhamma, there are the five proper times for giving:

* for one coming/ariving
* for one going
* in times of lack "food"
* in times of sickness
* and special fruits should be given to the virtuous without limit of time.

Now it becomes certain clear that if certain communities provide, or focus even on providing Dhamma, for their material supporter, (e.g. monks serving the lay people) but at the same time being more then stingy and unmotivated to support their "Kind", other monks, novices, trainees or people in training, it is also clear that such Dhamma-Dana is actually nothing but corruption, trade, politic.

Putting unpure things under the lable of "pure" is posdible even more ugly than anything else.

Think on cases of how power is gained by means of charity. Western church, for example, is a sample of generosity for actually very low purposeand politics. Not needed to bring up the many cases in poor countries, or under refugees, where people are even pressured to join them to get food, or get deprived when not wearing the right color.

And there is a huge "Dhamma-Dana-industry" that deals with stories of Noble Ones and Arahats of their specific branch, making actually advertising with attainments of their kind, an act that is actually very close to the forth downfall precept for a monk.

So it's possible hard, especially for lay people, to get not caught be what ever improper and "homie"-like trade in Dhamma, take part on thieving and corruption, and one need to be really observant to get it right, remembering Ud. 6.2. not only by it's last stanzas.

One should not think that just thinking like thieve is not actually thieving it self, even if done in a "Robin Hood"-way and so it's good to prove in all aspects carefully to get not trapped by shine outwardly appearence.

As with all Dhamma and outwardly support, only the match of someone who has left the world, who has become independent for trade, only a Noble person is a secure place to place as real supportive admirable friend. It's not a matter of literary quality, amout of just knowledge or comfortable performance, layout and accessibility. Dhamma-Dana not in line with Dhamma, not really liberal, not purified minimum on one side is of less fruits.

And in regard of who and how Dhamma should be given by the Buddhas close desciples, by his monks, is possible best provided by the "like the moon"-Sutta, and sad but true that there is not easy to find any community who has not actually fallen into Sg13, doing lay people certain favors and has long given up to care of their family and that to what they actually have taking refuge, fist, devoted to missuse the effective and borrowed reputation to devote it downwardly rather to use it as means so that people still would have ways to step out:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"What do you think, Bhikkhus, what kind of Bhikkhu is giving teaching on Dhamma impurely, and what kind of Bhikkhu is giving teaching on Dhamma purely?"

"Venerable Sir, the techings are rooted in the Blessed One, leaded by the Blessed One, having the Blessed One as protector. It would be good if the Blessed One would make the meaning delightful clear. Learned by the Blessed One, the Bhikkhus will bear it in mind."

"Then, Bhikkhus, listen and pay close attention, I will speak."

"Yes, venerable Sir," the Bhikkhus replayed to the Blessed One. The Blessed One spoke thus:

"There is the case, Bhikkhus, that a Bhikkhu teaches the Dhamma, thinking: 'Oh, may they listen to the Dhamma from me. Having learned my Dhamma, may they be settled in believe in it. Having been settled in believe in it, may they show their settlement in believe," this is a kind of Bhikkhu, Bhikkhus, who is giving teaching on Dhamma impurely.

There is the case, Bhikkhus, that a Bhikkhu teaches the Dhamma, thinking: 'The Dhamma of the Blessed One is well taught, direct visible, timeless, inviting to come and see, appropriate, to be self-experianced by the wise. Oh, may they listen to the Dhamma from me. Having learned the Dhamma, may they understand. Having understood the Dhamma, may they practice accordingly.' So he teaches the Dhamma because of the excellence nature of the Dhamma; he teaches the Dhamma out of compassion and kindness, out of pity. This is a kind of Bhikkhu, Bhikkhus, who is giving teaching on Dhamma purely.

Kassapa, Bhikkhus, teaches the Dhamma, thinking: 'The Dhamma of the Blessed One is well taught, direct visible, timeless, inviting to come and see, appropriate, to be self-experianced by the wise. Oh, may they listen to the Dhamma from me. Having learned the Dhamma, may they understand. Having understood the Dhamma, may they practice accordingly.' He teaches the Dhamma because of the excellence nature of the Dhamma; he teaches the Dhamma out of compassion and kindness, out of pity.

Bhikkhus, I advice you by the sample of Kassapa, or one who is similar to Kassapa's kind. Being adviced, you should practice in this way.

Aside of the usual improper priority in giving and care, it's the sign of a trader to do not praise others good deeds, lacking of sharing merits and Anumodana, aside his product and customers.
Of cause amacchariya is not present in such a person and it's therfore clear that such a person can not be someone who is even capable (and actually teach) jhāna, not to speak of path and fruit-attainment. As a worldling and trader he holds on his dwelling, family of supporter, gains, honor and simply takes Dhamma as a means to nurish "his" and "his kind".

May it be of benefical support for each individual in his seek for the path and may it help those who walk a not wise and actually destructive path for themselves and many, to come to mind before acts may close up all their avaliable good ways for a long time.

Anumodana!
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 10:07:50 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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Plauderbox

 

Johann

November 18, 2018, 04:59:04 PM
Nyom Roman, Nyom Vithou.
 

Cheav Villa

November 18, 2018, 04:33:20 PM
Park Kuna Prah Ang _/\_
 

Khemakumara

November 18, 2018, 04:02:38 PM
 :-* :-*    :-*

Bhante
 

Johann

November 18, 2018, 03:29:08 PM
Nyom Villa
 

Johann

November 18, 2018, 03:08:35 PM
Bhante
 

Cheav Villa

November 17, 2018, 02:54:22 PM
កូ​ណា​ _/\_
 

Johann

November 17, 2018, 02:29:15 PM
Sadhu for steady care, and no problem, nothing to worry.
 

Cheav Villa

November 17, 2018, 02:07:11 PM
តែលោកនៅតែលេីកហេតុផល
មកបដិសេធដដែល
 

Cheav Villa

November 17, 2018, 02:05:33 PM
ព្រះអង្គ​ ខ្ញុំកូណាមិមទាន់អាចផុសរូបភាពបានទេ​ មួយវិញទៀតខ្ញុំកូណាបានទូលព្រះអង្គSreng​ អោយចូលមកប្រេីSangham.net​
២ដង
 

Johann

November 17, 2018, 12:54:00 PM
Nyom Villa. Sokh chamreoun.
 

Cheav Villa

November 17, 2018, 12:48:37 PM
ថ្វាយបង្គំ​ព្រះអង្គ​  _/\_
 

Johann

November 16, 2018, 01:00:45 AM
May all delight in observing this Sila-days inspirations of cleaning the mind.
 

Johann

November 15, 2018, 01:49:25 PM
Mag da Freude mit guten Unternehmungen sein.
 

Roman

November 15, 2018, 01:46:28 PM
ich gehe jetzt wieder an die Arbeit. ich wünsche allen einen friedevollen Tag!
 

Roman

November 15, 2018, 01:35:30 PM
ich würde mich sehr freuen dass mal mit eigenen augen zu sehen..habe auch geplant nächstes Jahr nach Kambodscha zu kommen.
 

Johann

November 15, 2018, 01:14:27 PM
Thmo Duk , zur Zeit und schon gute Weile, Nyom Roman.
 

Roman

November 15, 2018, 01:07:51 PM
Hello Cheav Villa

 

Roman

November 15, 2018, 12:57:27 PM
Johann wo leben sie eigentlich? Khemakumara erzählte mir dass sie eine Höle bewohnen im aural gebirge, wie ich mich erinneren kann
 

Roman

November 15, 2018, 12:53:28 PM
Hallo Johann
 

Johann

November 15, 2018, 12:52:15 PM
Nyom Roman
 

Cheav Villa

November 15, 2018, 09:03:03 AM
Kuna Prah Ang  :D _/\_
 

Johann

November 15, 2018, 08:56:25 AM
Everything fine now with Nyoms settings? (Nyom Sokdina is Nyom Villas husband, right? My person is very ignorant in remembering names and relations.)
 

Kong Sokdina

November 15, 2018, 08:18:06 AM
Because I Kuna cant go sangham.net
after move Gmail to mail Green.
 

Kong Sokdina

November 15, 2018, 08:13:31 AM
Prah Ang
I kuna Villa using his Acct _/\_
 

Johann

November 15, 2018, 08:04:33 AM
Nyom Kong Sokdina.
 

Johann

November 15, 2018, 03:16:45 AM
A fruitful Sila-observance day for those obsering it today.
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 03:52:00 PM
Nyom Roman and Bhantes family will be surely happy and good that Bhante does not need to get much involved directly.
 

Cheav Villa

November 14, 2018, 03:40:07 PM
Kuna Prah Ang
 _/\_
The Kathina will be holding on Sat 17 and Sun 18. I kuna will meet both of Bhante Sreng and Bhante Khemearakuma to imform all about this, incl sharing much pictures.
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 03:14:40 PM
Good if Nyom could explain Bhante Sreng how to use the online monastery. Sadhu! A topic on Bhante Khemakumaras going forth can be found here . Good also if informing and share date of Kathina at Wat Ayom, and much pictures to share
 

Cheav Villa

November 14, 2018, 02:55:43 PM
Kuna Prah Ang,
As I kuna knowing that Prah Ang Khemareakuma
was staying in Ork Yum Pagoda.
This Saturday or Sunday I kuna would join the Kathin there, but now I kuna will send some about Bhante Khemareakuma via FB Prah Ang Sreng.
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 02:37:46 PM
Nyom Roman, Nyom Villa asked if she can help in something in regard of Bhante. Best when you talk in a new topic.
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 02:36:12 PM
Nyom Roman , Bhantes twin brother and his family asked how Bhante is. They miss him much and Bhante praisworthy focus on practice.
 

Cheav Villa

November 14, 2018, 02:27:20 PM
ព្រះអង្គ  _/\_
តើខ្ញុំកូណានឹងអាចជួយអ្វីខ្លះអ្វីអំពីព្រះអង្គ​ Khemareakuma?
 

Cheav Villa

November 14, 2018, 02:15:11 PM
ជំរាបសួរលោក​ Moritz
_/\_
 

Cheav Villa

November 14, 2018, 02:12:59 PM
កូណាមិនបានដឹងទេ ព្រះអង្គ​
 

Moritz

November 14, 2018, 02:12:36 PM
ជំរាបសួរ Cheav Villa _/\_
 

Moritz

November 14, 2018, 02:12:29 PM
Auf Wiedersehen, Roman. Ich schreibe dir noch zurück per E-Mail und mache hier am besten noch ein Thema auf für später.

_/\_
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 02:03:05 PM
Does Nyom Villa know Bhante Khemakumaras twin brother?
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 02:01:43 PM
Eine Reihe der neuen Mitglieder hier, Nyom Villa, Puthy... sind öfter in Kontakt und in den Klöstern Ayum und in Phnom Penh. Mag sein, daß jemand von den Upasikas kürzlich Kontakt hatte. Gut auch wenn Nyom guten Kontakt zu anderen Laien vor Ort Pflegt, hallo sagt...
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 02:01:26 PM
ich danke ihnen Johann und Motiz für die informationen und unterstützung.
 ich muss  jetzt weiter. ich  wünsche allen einen friedevolle tag
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 01:46:29 PM
Ein paar generelle und erklärende Worte zum Thema Unterstützen hier: If willing to help the child, the "poor" the new, give to it's master, father!
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 01:41:23 PM
Atma denkt, kann aber auch sein, daß er anderwo lernt. Einweiser ist die Person, die einen neuen Mönch einweist, und kommt einem Vater gleich. Bhante Indannano ist Bhantes Einweiser (Upajjhāya). (Hier übrigens das Thema zu "Unte
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 01:36:35 PM
Und wie geht es Ihnen Johann? wo sind sie untergebracht?
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 01:34:00 PM
Bhante Khemakumara ist jetzt in Takeo bei Bhante Indannanno soweit ich mitbekommen habe ja? welche bedeutung hat ein Einweiser?
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 01:31:47 PM
Siehe Mountain kuti-sāmaggī weekend, Thmo Duk, end of last Rain-month 2018. . Bhante ist, wenn im Wat (Kloster) Ayum , sicher gut umsorgt von allen Seiten.
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 01:27:18 PM
Seit seinem Mitziehen mit seinem Einweiser soweit nichts gehört und wird, denkt Atma, vertieft in der Praxis sein. Nächste Woche kommt Bhante Indannano mit seinen Schülern. Vielleicht kommt Bhante Khemakumara auch mit.
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 01:22:13 PM
wie geht es Khemakumara..dass ist sehr oft in meinen gedanken..ihn nicht direkt fragen zu können dass ist schwierig..nicht auf dem aktuellen zu sein..denke das liegt auch daran dass mich meine famile oft fragt..roman wie gehts marcel
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 01:16:20 PM
Ja Johann das werde ich meiner familie vorschlagen!
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 01:10:27 PM
Nyom Roman kann jederzeit seine Familie hier her einladen. Da mögen alle mehr Bezug zu dem Streben bekommen und können stets auch Fragen stellen.
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 01:06:07 PM
Da wart ein Forum nur für Nichtklösterliche eingerichtet, zu dem man mit gewisser Mitgliedschaft zugang hat. Mag sicher ein passender Rahmen sein für solches, um da entspannend beizutragen, oder Aramikabereich (Oberforum).

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